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P2w

novalousnovalous Member Posts: 40 Arc User
edited January 2013 in PvP Gameplay
Ithink its funny when people in bug ships cry about P2W lol. How much does the bug ship cost.
Post edited by novalous on
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Comments

  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Right now I'm more concerned about Concentrated Tachyon Mines. lol.

    That **** is the new OP in PvP right now.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edited January 2013
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  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Agreed. The p2w term is a distraction from the real issue.

    Even if Tach Mines were freely available to everyone, they would still be overpowered as they are right now.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dova25dova25 Member Posts: 475
    edited January 2013
    novalous wrote: »
    Ithink its funny when people in bug ships cry about P2W lol. How much does the bug ship cost.

    A good subject to debate I think.

    A Jhas is a P2W ship kind of .It has better specification than other escorts by far.
    (As I told before I think it is ok to be so)

    If you use some consoles available in game you can stop and disable the Jhas for a couple of seconds and make the fight more equal.

    Both Jhas and P2W consoles are available to anybody who wants to pay their price so in my opinion it is o.k to use both .Why condemn one and justify the other?
    In my opinion everything which part of the game is legit to use .

    Why should somebody agree to be blow into pieces from a bug and not use a console to try to avoid that ?
    "There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
    I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,415 Bug Hunter
    edited January 2013
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Everything in STO can be earned just by playing, so "pay to win" is incorrect anyway, at least if it is supposed to imply that the only way to get all that stuff was by spending real money.

    Oh yeah, you can just play for a few hours every day and just produce a bugship magically from the luminous ether.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Depending on how hard you grind, it can take you up to 2 months of pure grind to get a JHAS.

    Of course I hear of people who make 30-40 million ec a day, so your mileage may vary. ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • omgrandalthoromgrandalthor Member Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    This better not be the one in a p2w fleet defiant and said no p2w fight and brings that to a fight vs a advanced escort with tranphasic mines/breen torp and talks all kinds of nonsense. YES FLEET SHIPS ARE P2W moduals are z store so don't be hating on bugs there champ!
  • omgrandalthoromgrandalthor Member Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    illcadia wrote: »
    Oh yeah, you can just play for a few hours every day and just produce a bugship magically from the luminous ether.

    bug ship was a free ship at a event long ago... so was mine p2w? na it was free ftw kinda like the breen ship :P
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Nah, the OP is a member of SOB, he is not the Tach Mine guy in OPvP.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • omgrandalthoromgrandalthor Member Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    that opvp tach mine guy is sob...!
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  • omgrandalthoromgrandalthor Member Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Well, you can just buy it off the exchange... and I suspect there will be one on the Dominion Lockbox... and yes, you can earn Lockbox keys in the game just by playing.

    Yea I got all my time TRIBBLE plus those mines from buying keys with ec and got a few ships to buy more ect lol
  • andoriansrusandoriansrus Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    This better not be the one in a p2w fleet defiant and said no p2w fight and brings that to a fight vs a advanced escort with tranphasic mines/breen torp and talks all kinds of nonsense. YES FLEET SHIPS ARE P2W moduals are z store so don't be hating on bugs there champ!

    fleet ships are most definitely NOT P2W... I can grind up dilithium and convert that to zen enough so that I can add a fleet module every day with no expenditure of actual money... all it cost me was about 3 hours a day grinding my dilithium..... deal with it, it is not P2W = Pay to win, it is P2W = Play to Win
    Major Xi'Zzin
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    fleet ships are most definitely NOT P2W... I can grind up dilithium and convert that to zen enough so that I can add a fleet module every day with no expenditure of actual money... all it cost me was about 3 hours a day grinding my dilithium..... deal with it, it is not P2W = Pay to win, it is P2W = Play to Win

    I've been avoiding this thread, because it's inevitably the type of thread that the mods hand out warnings like they're having a going out of business sale.

    However, you're mistaken - technically.

    Whether it's a case that you bought the FM off the exchange for EC or you bought it with Zen from converting Dil... real money transactions took place.

    The item cannot exist in the game without somebody having spent real money.

    They could have broken out their wallet and paid for the Zen to buy it.
    They could have a lifetime sub they paid for and accumulated the Zen to buy it.
    They could have paid for a sub and accumulated the Zen to buy it.
    They could have bought it by converting Dil to Zen - the Zen being something that somebody bought or had available from a stipend (available from having paid).

    Fleet Ships that require Fleet Modules are very much P2W. They can't exist in the game unless somebody made a real money transaction.

    Fleet Ships that do not require Fleet Modules on the other hand...different story. They do not require anything that required a real money transaction being made.

    Anything that has a Zen price attached to it - required a real money transaction. Just because you may not have made that transaction yourself, does not negate the fact that one had to take place.

    Dil items present the opportunity for both - somebody could buy Zen to trade for Dil, thus one could say they personally partook in P2W...but that's another discussion and a personal choice. Anything with a Zen price, on the other hand, there was always a real money transaction involved at some point...
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I've been avoiding this thread, because it's inevitably the type of thread that the mods hand out warnings like they're having a going out of business sale.

    However, you're mistaken - technically.

    Whether it's a case that you bought the FM off the exchange for EC or you bought it with Zen from converting Dil... real money transactions took place.

    The item cannot exist in the game without somebody having spent real money.

    They could have broken out their wallet and paid for the Zen to buy it.
    They could have a lifetime sub they paid for and accumulated the Zen to buy it.
    They could have paid for a sub and accumulated the Zen to buy it.
    They could have bought it by converting Dil to Zen - the Zen being something that somebody bought or had available from a stipend (available from having paid).

    Fleet Ships that require Fleet Modules are very much P2W. They can't exist in the game unless somebody made a real money transaction.

    Fleet Ships that do not require Fleet Modules on the other hand...different story. They do not require anything that required a real money transaction being made.

    Anything that has a Zen price attached to it - required a real money transaction. Just because you may not have made that transaction yourself, does not negate the fact that one had to take place.

    Dil items present the opportunity for both - somebody could buy Zen to trade for Dil, thus one could say they personally partook in P2W...but that's another discussion and a personal choice. Anything with a Zen price, on the other hand, there was always a real money transaction involved at some point...


    I understand what you are getting at, but I think the conversation needs to move beyond "pay to win" and simply what is decently balanced, what is under-performing and what is clearly broken OP.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I understand what you are getting at, but I think the conversation needs to move beyond "pay to win" and simply what is decently balanced, what is under-performing and what is clearly broken OP.

    That's definitely the better discussion, imho. The other thing is kind of moot - that's the game - they need to make revenue...it's a pointless discussion. P2W's basically become an alternate subscription system these days - it's not Pay2Win - it's Pay2Play w/o a sub. Just another form of P2P.

    Balance on the other hand - definitely. UP, OP, Broken UP, Broken OP, and all the general not working as intended... while there can obviously be some arguments amongst players on this, you can generally tell the type of player arguing for/against something that seems out of whack. It allows for a more cohesive front from the playerbase in trying to get the devs to make an awesome game...
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Personally now I have come back to STO, I have a different outlook on the whole debate. I think this term is now irrelevant. If you go into ques, its fair game. However,if you setup a pre arranged match with another party, agree the rules before the match starts, you won't end up arguing.

    As an example, in the last few days pandas have gone into the ques knowing we'd face Orions. No matter the result and history between the fleets, we have just agreed to say gg now and move on. Overall both fleets have had a pleasant experience. Win win scenario either way.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    .Edit. /10char
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    That may be, but the OP is another guy.

    His most commonly posting OPvP char is...

    Not to be a back-seat moderator, but you really shouldn't 'name and shame' (I think that's the term) here on the forums.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Not to be a back-seat moderator, but you really shouldn't 'name and shame' (I think that's the term) here on the forums.

    Yeah, I was wondering if it would fall into that category.

    I was merely correcting him about the idea the OP was the one guy he was talking about. But you're probably right, I'll edit my post just in case.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • omgrandalthoromgrandalthor Member Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yea p2w is a outdated term now days because one some ships are free like the bug if you got lucky long ago. Also the fleet ships you can buy moduals off the exchange or you can pay 2000 zen for them either way. I just liked to bring it up cause the rules of it were no p2w so I couldn't bring my bug (which was free like the breen ship) so I got in a tear 4 ship and was suppose to fight a normal defiant but he brought a fleet version lol. Yea he owned my 24k hull ship hehe!

    Plus this is a free game and this z store stuff keeps it going! :P
  • s7ikes7ike Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Depending on how hard you grind, it can take you up to 2 months of pure grind to get a JHAS.

    Of course I hear of people who make 30-40 million ec a day, so your mileage may vary. ;)

    Took me 2 weeks in kerrat for 300mil....people donated the other 100mil.
  • s7ikes7ike Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    However whether it be fleet ship or lock box ship every single item in this game can be farmed through ec or dilithium/zen. However what people have a problem with is the opinions of an individual...what do you consider P2W( more or less people saying spam or cheese). It's all a matter of perspective...I could care less if you run it or not in regards to consoles (only asking that you don't over do it). Plus adding these consoles to your ship decreases your survivability to some regard. Now, to the lock box ships...if you have enough time to farm up for your fleet ship or "P2W" consoles...you have enough time to farm up for any ship.
    I'll tell you right now every lockbox ship in the game can be farmed in a week excluding the jem. Furthermore respect people's opinions and perspectives.
  • stevehalestevehale Member Posts: 437
    edited January 2013
    I prefer P2KB (Kill Balance). P2W ends up being the standard term to fall back on but only distracts from the real problem, poorly balanced mechanics/gimmicks.
    __________________________________________
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  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I suppose given my forum handle I should chime in, guess what my opinion is?








    ...


    Anyway, P2W started the unbalanced power creep spiral that's in the game in many forms now. There are other issues w/it I wont get into again b/c there's not much point tbh.

    I don't really see the point in denying its existance unless a player wants to fly his/her bug/FleetShip in the "Classic Tourney" or some other tourney.

    Off topic:

    To me it makes sense for things like the "Classic Tourney" to be restrictive to ships/gear prior to C-Store influx and set rollouts. It's about getting rid of the powercreep and seeing how things playout. I'd even have players use honor system to not bring toons w/rep system boosts.
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
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  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Sadly we're in a downward spiral with the way things are in p2w.

    Cryptic has found a formula that is more profitable and cheap than extensive FE development. And as a result we're going to keep seeing more junk like Tach Mines, etc. :(

    I hope the Classic tourney ends up as model that most follow, but I doubt it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Hi i wanted to chime in, but i was waiting for p2wsucks to post...lol

    I wrote a similar post

    I have to say thank u p2wsucks you really changed my perspective of on how the game sould be played and since then...my every thing is up attack,defense,friends list. Other then a few uses i have weeded out my p2w consules from my builds and am enjoying the game much more...8D

    Thnx again p2wsucks
    Kraven@Livin
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=473411
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    livinrtb wrote: »
    Hi i wanted to chime in, but i was waiting for p2wsucks to post...lol

    I wrote a similar post

    I have to say thank u p2wsucks you really changed my perspective of on how the game sould be played and since then...my every thing is up attack,defense,friends list. Other then a few uses i have weeded out my p2w consules from my builds and am enjoying the game much more...8D

    Thnx again p2wsucks
    Kraven@Livin
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=473411

    Glad things are working out for you.

    Also, for the record it's not like I don't abuse things, I fly the KDF Vet ship and use Aux2batt build w/my Tac.

    The friends list thing wasn't something I had given thought to.

    Friends don't let friends abuse P2W? Or in general power creep?
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • novalousnovalous Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The match in question was a bug ship against a fleet defient with tachyon mines. Keep in mind the defient wasn't even using cloak defient won.Bug ship called defient p2w spammer as usual.Bug ship says take off your mines and ill fight you in my advanced escort.Defient beats advanced 5-0. then it was oh you beat me because your flying a fleet ship. My point is almost every ship flown at this point is p2w or as some say g2w congrats if you were 1 of 5 ppl who got your bug ship free. 99.9% of the ppl payed for it in one way or another. Instead of yelling in opvp about p2w spammer do what naz suggested say gg and move on.
  • omgrandalthoromgrandalthor Member Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    No match was suppose to be advanced vs advanced then changed to defiant but they brought a fleet one not a normal one so whatever :P 9k shields and 25k hull vs 12k shields 40k+ hull and 3x turn-rate with transphasic cluster kinda imposable. t4 ship vs t6 was fun in a way I just wanted to see if I could do it. I still think I can just have to get the rite bo setup... :P

    And those mines are op regardless of what you want to believe. I didn't say nothing about p2w so stop the lies I said lulz my explosive decompression loves trics or something like that then the ****alk and lies flowed from said person. :P Anyway ill try it again soon my t4 vs their t6 ship. If they want to fight t6 vs my t6 1vs1 anything goes their side my ship clean - the ship (because all t6 ships are p2w) ill do it and I will win!

    And no gg for ****alkers and liers that is why I don't say it to said person :P
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