I want to pinpoint that kdf have no comparable escort to what federation can use now.
My mirror raptor is a easy prey to new fleet tactical escort retrofits .
(at least for a couple I know and meet in pvp )
I think it would be only fair to make available to kdf a raptor having exactly the same features as fleet defiant.(5 tac consoles,0.9 shield mod,17 turn ratio ,cloak)
I am used to be a practice target for bugs

) but I don't complain about that because if I decide so I have the option to buy a bug from exchange so it is fair to be like that.
I don't like to be circled around by federation escorts like fleet defiant and
steamrunner and having no option to buy a similar kdf escort.That I consider unfair.
I opened this thread because I guess there are others that would like a better raptor and hopefully if we are many asking the same thing who knows what will bring the future.
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Comments
Bugs I have no answer for they are op which is fine as your lucky to see one in a match and if you see two in one match or two in a row then your unlucky and respawning
anybody who's says their not op is stoopid I was sat in cloak in Kerrat as a kdf bug tanked 9 Feds in the end they all flew off I spoke to him and he said he got sub nuked three times and survived 3 or 4 VM
But on topic I agree I run my raptor as a cheap(325k EC) decent damage decent turning ship for pve on my sci alt but I wouldn't dare walk into Kerrat or a match that would just be crazy
I love the kdf but playing Is so hard from buying ships due to the fact that we only have a handful of ships capable of keeping up with starfleet but also because the devs keep feeding the Feds nobody want to be Klingon so buying stuff like doffs becomes unbelievabley expensive and time costly
I want to pvp but find myself playing against the computer ai on federation minefield just so I can try and be competetive
Rant over and let's face nothing will happen in the new year they'll bring out this next 10 levels and render our current buys useless and bring out a shiny new range of battle cloaking super federation battle cruisers and I thing it's about time for a buff to the jhem hadar bug no?
The problem is, people see a bug ship taking out 3 opponents and they think, the ship is over the top. Thats only a quarter of the truth.
It is not the bug ship it self which is over the top, but in combination with broken stuff like stacking 3 purple Brace For Impact DOFFs, Elite Fleet Shields or some rare consumable items which make ships undestroyable. People, who fly the Bug only usually tend to use these broken things more often than other.
Without this broken equipment, the bug ship would be very good, but not broken in game terms. If you want to protest, please protest about broken equipment, not about the bug ship.
And, of course, the KDF is missing a raptor with 5 tac consoles. The fleet somarow should have it, as well as the Brel (not only the fleet Brel) should have 4 tac consoles.
Beside, it is realy sad, that I need to fly the most ugly ship in STO (Fleet HoS'Sus, which costs 2000 Zen plus tier 4 starbase and comes only with one!!! skin) to have a BoP that is damage wise up to date. One of the most iconic ships in the KDF, the Brel, is just a joke against Fed ships like the fleet defaint.
At least, give the Fleet Hos'Sus the B'rel skin option.
This complaint seems to be focused on issues you've experienced in PvP circumstances. I think you should address your build first, and your skills second before blaming your hardware.
The KDF have some of the best ships in the game. The various incarnations of BOP's, added with the ability to cloak make them among the most powerful. As a fed player, I would give my left nut for a ship with those capabilities.
Yes, some feds refine their ships into weapons that should be feared. So do the KDF. Not everyone has access to the bug. Those who do (damn their very souls) are lucky. But they are not indestructible.
Skill, tactics, guile and weapon choices do play a role. It's not the ship that makes the man - it's his ability to play the game.
Now excuse me, I need to work on my T5 romulan plasma /Breen monstrosity.
Admiral Thrax
BoPs are niche ships, which is mostly directed toward alpha strikes from cloak an re-cloak before getting destroyed. Get the fleet defaint, get the cloak console and you will be able to do an initial alpha strikes much more dire than that of a BoP ... and by the way you will have one more rear weapon, one ensign BO more, more shield, more hull and one to two more weapon consoles. But you cant cloak while in combat ... however, thats not necessary for a fleet defaint.
so you mean to say that its the "broken shields and BFI doffs" i play against fleet mates all the time and we all run similar elite shields and they pop like the rest of them and bfi doffs give you one hull heal a minute or longer if you have been subnuked
Like i said im not complaining about the bug because im jealous i am saying that there is not doubt the ship is op and ill protest about what i want its called freedom of speech
Jem hadar attack ship
Hull:34,500
Standard Shields:5,225 (Mk X)
Shield Modifier:1
Turn Rate:20
Impulse Modifier:0.22
4 Eng consoles 5 tac consoles
Fleet somraw
Hull:34,650
Standard Shields:3,710 (Mk X)
Shield Modifier:0.71
Turn Rate:16
Impulse Modifier:0.20
Inertia rating:70
4 tac consoles 3 eng consoles
Fleet tactical escort(defiant)
Hull:33,000
Standard Shields:4,703 (Mk X)
Shield Modifier:0.9
Turn Rate:17
Inertia rating:70
5 tactical consoles 3 eng consoles
Fleet patrol escort
Type:Escort
Hull:34,100
Standard Shields:5,173 (Mk X)
Shield Modifier:0.99
Turn rate : 16
4 tac console and 4 eng consoles
That information was pulled off the wiki so might not be accurate to the t but its somewhere near
Yes the bug ship outclasses every escort in every department so it is as they out of balance.
Balance means you are good at something you have to be a little bit worse in others in order to balance it out hence why bops tend to go pop when anything with cannons looks at it but it gets a battle cloak balance is why an oddy can take multiple ships pummeling it but only scratches at most things
The only ship ive seen that can tank and fight somewhere near the bugs level is the torkhat
but even then it has half the turn rate and 1 less tac console which mean you have to give up eng spots(precious resistances) or use single cannons(roughly 20% loss in damage)
Now going back to the original post the somraw is no where near ample to fight with against fed escorts only true raptor purists fly them and even then still not as efficiently as other ships
I for one am a big believer in this too its the first thing i tell people who ask for advice however i put this to you
two soldiers have a mexican stand off the distance between them is around 500 yards.
One soldier is a 16 year service sniper trained SAS long range ballistics specialist
Number two a 16 year service sniper trained SAS long range ballistics specialist
Mr Sas number 1 is armed with a bog standard 9mm pistol but his training tactics guile and 16 years of skill honing tell him hes going to be ok
Mr sas number 2 is armed with the latest in long range single target warfare .50 cal sniper rifle
i think we all know what happened next...
anybody can get 20k fleet credit and 2k zen and buy a ship and yes the rest of it is skill weapon and console choices but if that said ship is already a step above the rest then that means hes always going to be one step above the next person with similar skills tactics and guile but in a sub quality ship
One type of Elite Fleet shields from the Fleet Starbase T4 science supply currently proc shield resistance procs against incoming damage which can stack up to around 50%, not counting in any resistance from EPTS.
And I don't know from which BFI Bofs you talk from, but I talk from DOFs that give you around 40-50% chance to heal each shield facing for the full run time of BFI (15 secs). Before that "nerfed" version, they provided even shield regeneration that stacked and virtually was like RSP every 45 secs.
an additional eng console and a 0.2 better shield modifier will not do such a large difference that the bug would be able to outtank 3+ attackers in comparsion with other ships. The stuff I listed above do.
Ah, and btw. I don't have a bug ship nor I intend to get it.
All I know I that the bug can do thing son other ship can it has many strengths
An a 1 shield modifier is the same as the bortasqu and voquv which a preliminarily designed to be tanks there shield last a lot longer in battle on paper it might only be 0.2 Byt capacity and longevity wise it's a big difference anyway enough about the bug back on topic
Most will be fitted with DC/DHCs, so if you can get out of its front arc you're only being hit by 3 turrets, and it's at your mercy until your tractor beam/sub-nuc wears off.
Picking the right moment is essential. Do it right and you'll strike like a battering ram hitting a dollhouse. Do it wrong, it'll skitter away and come back fully buffed (probably with back up).
Uses Jem Hadar bug ship for garnish with her morning salad, with a nice vinegerette, and a sqeeze od lemon and ginger to spring out that spicy crunch.
Optimizze your captains abilities, pick the ship you like to fly the best (and stop thinking there is one all powerfull killer ship.. there aint. Theres only killer captains) Kit the ship out to optimize its strengths and minimize its vulnerabilities, and learn to do more the shoot and swoop. Tactics count. Learn how to cause the other fellow to generate misses, and learn how to optimize getting your weapons fire on target. Then learn how to do it as a team player.
Starships are weapon platforms. They are greater then the sum of thier parts. The Captains brain is the gretest force multiplier of all.
Use Everything.
Patrol your assigned sector, seek out and find the enemy, get behind them and blow them into the afterlife. All else is rubbish. (paraphrased from
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Give me a good bird of prey instead. I don't want a crappy pivot point on my 5 tac console scooter.
You can't compare the Defiant's cloak and the fact that it has 5 tactical consoles with a Raptor or BoP.
In regards to the BoP cloak, it is a Battle Cloak and, thus, superior to the Defiant's. At the cost of less hull and shields. But, the turn rate is much higher. Also, it is inherit to the BoP class and does not require a console slot.
In regards to the Raptor cloak, it has an inherit cloak ability and does not require a console slot.
If you want more console slots, then they need to make Klingon cloaks a console to make it fair. Or, make the Defiant cloak an inherit ability to the class. Having an inherit cloak plus 5 tactical consoles without giving up any other console slot would be too powerful.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Oh it would be crazy ? As crazy as an escort carrier with perma tractoring pets ?
I guess I should mention that I don't want a BoP (as they are now in the game) but an escort based on a bop hull. One could call it, ah wait, K'Vort !
Turnrate of 15 degrees per second, fixed bo layout (preferably that of the Armitage), 0.9 shield mod, standart cloak.
Like giving up one weapon slot and one less boff power compared to fedscorts ?
Not many feddys out there can stop a full on well timed bop alpha strike
But your other points I agree on
15 turn rate is what I have on mirror raptor now and it is not satisfactory
Any federation escort makes circles around (fleet defiant have 17 turn rate and 0.9 shield mod)
A fair ship for both factions would be an "adapted" fleet defiant retrofit with cloak console so federation players wouldn't feel that kdf get a OP ship.
Kdf would get exactly what fed already have.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
You mean the pets that only use that ability once every 45 seconds per hangar wing?
Both BoP and Raptors have universal boffs, which are more valuable than designated boff. For an all cannon build defiant, there is a wasted Ensign slot. There are no wasted slots with universal boffs.
ok, i feel i must speak up against the quoted text.
http://www.stowiki.org/Somraw_Raptor_Retrofit
http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Somraw_Raptor_Retrofit
http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Qin_Heavy_Raptor
http://www.stowiki.org/Mirror_Qin_Heavy_Raptor
http://www.stowiki.org/Qin_Heavy_Raptor
all have designated boff slots, the only "raptor" to have universal boffs is the Peghqu' Destroyer.
http://www.stowiki.org/Peghqu%27_Heavy_Destroyer
this is the 1000 day vet reward ship, feds already have a copy of this ship (exception of shield modifier and battle cloak).
http://www.stowiki.org/Chimera_Heavy_Destroyer
and as for the topic, the fleet defiant and gal-x should have cloak built into the ship like most kdf ships.
along with that, the kdf should finally get a 5 tac console raptor. and fixing the raptor's pivot point would help as well.
But, the Somraw Raptor Retrofit has a better BOFF layout than the Tactical Escort Retrofit Same number of weapon and console slots. One less turn rate and lower shields. The lower shields can be made up for by the Ensign Engineering BOFF slot. Still has an inherit cloaking ability, which would essentially give it 10 console slots, while the Tactical Escort Retrofit only gets 9, AND they have to use a console slot if they want to use cloak, so, really, it gets 8.
The Fleet Somraw Raptor has more hull, less shields, still has a better BOFF layout, and one less turn rate compared to the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit. It trades one tactical console for an extra science console. You can put in an extra Field Generator in there to give it more shields than the Fleet Defiant, on top of the extra Ensign Engineering ability. Or, put in one of those new Science consoles to add DOT to your weapons for extra damage. Or, put in a universal console and put in more armor/alloys to boost your resistance. Much more things that can be done to make this ship more durable and flexible than the Fleet Defiant (except for extra damage). And, as before, it gets 10 consoles + cloak, essentially giving it 11 consoles. Fleet Defiant gets 10 consoles, and has to use one up if they want cloak.
Qin Heavy Raptor has 2 less turn rate (it is called "Heavy" for a reason) compared to a Tactical Escort Retrofit. This isn't a Z-store ship either. It can be obtained for free. It should be compared to a Patrol Escort. BOFF layout is the same as the Tactical Escort Retrofit, and the Patrol Escort as the better BOFF layout. But, the Qin has better hull than the two Fed counterparts, while having less shields. The Mirror Qin matches the Patrol Escort. Still has cloak, versus none on the Patrol and at the cost of a console slot for the Tactical Escort Retrofit.
The Fleet Qin has better shields than the Fleet Defiant, but worse than the Fleet Patrol. Still has cloak, versus none on the Fleet Patrol and at the cost of a console slot for the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit. It gives gets 4 Engineering consoles for more armor/alloys for better resistance, it can slot an extra RCS console to boost the turn rate beyond what a Fleet Defiant can achieve without an RCS console, or put a universal console there. It's more flexible than the Fleet Defiant, and is the same layout as the Fleet Patrol. The Fleet Qin as the same BOFF layout as the Fleet Defiant.
In all of the cases above, there are plus and minuses to each ship. As it should be.
The closest raptor to fleet defiant is fleet somraw so let me make my comparison between the two :
I agree that with built-in cloak is like a 11 console ship so to be fair it would a idea to make a new raptor based on fleet somraw with 10 console without builtin cloak and cloak could be a universal console or a second variant having 9 console+built-in cloak .
In any case this new raptor should have 5 tactical consoles.Tactical consoles are increasing damage output without having a diminishing value problem as engineering consoles have.And 0.9 shield mod.And 17 turn rate.
Because if you put a RCS console and a shield emitter console in fleet somraw to get to fleet defiant's characteristics you loose from 11 consoles 3 (one built-in cloak,one RCS,one shield emitter) and even after that the fire power of fleet defiant will be at least 28% percent higher (a cheap MXI rar tactical console)
Actually fleet defiant has the most powerfull decloaking alfa strike from all escorts in the game and the diference is between 28,1-30 %
Lastly we shouldn't forget about raptor problem -axis point turning .I dont have the fleet somraw to say how it handles compared to other raptors but for other raptors is a serious handicap in games like C&H where you have to stand and fight near a fixed point.There you need a fast turning ship with lot of firepower. Jhas excels,fleet defiants are great.
So I think that a kdf raptor having the exactly the same characteristics with fleet defiant will make the balance equal.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
btw: Calling Bugs OP is simply an excuse for people who can't acknowledge that someone is simply better then them. Sure, they're currently the best escorts out there, but the edge they have doesn't make them OP. Period. Most people that kill you in a bug, will be able to kill you just as fast and easy in a Raptor, BoP, Defiant or Dervish, while people that suck at PvP will die just as easy, no matter what ship they're in.
Is it very useful if you use a torpedo or a dbb and without much use if you run a full cannon build.Here some thoughts from federation side about fleet defiant :
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6081471&postcount=6
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6905401&postcount=49
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
It also seems to fit most of the criteria of an escort.
It has no fleet version.
I'd say that one makes a pretty fine 5 tac fleet kdf ship, or what? It doesn't have a cloak, like the fleet Defiant, but it has the siege mode, so that's a decent trade-off...
Am I the only one with that idea?
Guramba is a fine ship but it has 15 turn ratio and +10 power to weapons while any escort has +15 power to weapons and all except raptors have better turn ratio .More it has no cloak so I don't think it can be compared to fleet defiant wich i think it is the best escort in game after jhas.
http://www.stowiki.org/Guramba_Siege_Destroyer
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Without any buffs and just my power levels at 125 (and skill points maxed in energy weapons), each tactical console gives my ship about a 90 point increase in DPS. So, my increase between 4 and 5 tactical consoles is 90. On just my DHCs, that's about a 450 increase in my fore DPS. With the increase in my aft DPS, it's probably around 600 or 650 total (for 7 weapons). With all my buffs, I could probably get about a 1.5 to 2k increase in my overall DPS.
Haven't forgot the difference in BOF layout.Actually I said in a post that a "adapted" fleet defiant would be a good compromise for both factions that including the boff layout and cloak console.
And that Boff layout from defiant can be very good if you run a mixed weapon configuration.
It is not as good if you run all cannon's I agree with you on that.
I don't want federation players feel that kdf gets a better raptor than the ship they already have and kdf players will get in this case an equivalent escort to federation ship.
About the 5-th console if you say that the increase is so small why kdf pilots can't have that "small" increase in firepower,shield mod and turn rate in the next raptor ?
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U