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LTS has NOT spent any RL $$$
zachverant
Member Posts: 111 Arc User
I am a LTS member and have NOT spent any RL money in the Z store since November 2012. I usually buy between 5000-10000 Zen each month.
The Dilth rate was at 88/1 yesterday, last time I bought dilth it was at 151/1. I will NOT spend anymore RL $$$ in the Z store untill the Dilth Econ gets fixed. This also means I will NOT be buying any more Keys for lockboxes either.
I am not alone, the other LTS members that I know have either curbed their spending or are NOT buying any Zen.
The dilth grind is long and sux...but my RL entertainment $$$ are better spent on "other" entertainment venues that DO NOT try to suck my pocketbook...dry.
Outside of the Dilth Econ being ran by greedy over the top business execs...I think the Devs are doing a...Wonderful Job.
Qa'pla
The Dilth rate was at 88/1 yesterday, last time I bought dilth it was at 151/1. I will NOT spend anymore RL $$$ in the Z store untill the Dilth Econ gets fixed. This also means I will NOT be buying any more Keys for lockboxes either.
I am not alone, the other LTS members that I know have either curbed their spending or are NOT buying any Zen.
The dilth grind is long and sux...but my RL entertainment $$$ are better spent on "other" entertainment venues that DO NOT try to suck my pocketbook...dry.
Outside of the Dilth Econ being ran by greedy over the top business execs...I think the Devs are doing a...Wonderful Job.
Qa'pla
"Sips her PWE Koolaide and looks at alllll the goodies in the Z store"
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
Post edited by zachverant on
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After this point it will only be the "adolescent" characters having to deal with this dilithium drain from reputation.
The pricing of fleet items and starbase projects is a much bigger and more long lasting effect, I think, but I think this has already stabilized for the most part.
We've already witnessed the value of dilithium falling over the last few days and I have no doubt it will continue to fall for a while until a certain equilibrium is reached after it had been upset by fleet projects/items and reputation.
Of course the exact value it will settle on is down to speculation and Cryptics future changes/additions in that regard.
He's dead, Jim.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
But I don't dabble in the Dilithium Market, so where it stands has nothing to do with my purchases.
I use my stipend plus a bit of cash occasionally to buy Keys and extra items for my toon alts.
Taking a stand is great, but don't assume that in this particular case it will really effect what Cryptic does or doesn't do.
There are far more folks like me around.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I think that one of the biggest factors in devaluation of Zen is the fact that Cryptic adds nothing new to the Zen store and spends all their time cranking out lock boxes.
Buying Lockbox Keys is just not something that I'd choose to waste my Zen on.
I'm currently sitting on a nice chunk of Zen and IMO its worth nothing to me because there's nothing in the Z-store that appeals enough to me to want to buy it. (Primary KDF Player)
There's no way in Hell that I'm going to convert my Zen into a free in-game currency that's needed to progress in this F2P game.
The whole Star Base system seems to be designed to pray on our natural instincts to want to come in 1st place and get everything that we want has quick has possible no matter the cost.
Wow that 8000 Dilithium a day is really slowing down my ability to progress in this F2P MMO but I can get has much Dilithium has I want if I use my real cash to buy Zen and convert it into Dilithium!
I have to admit what PWE and Cryptic has done is brilliant.
Who would have ever imagined that a freely generated in-game currency would be worth more to players than a currency that someone has to pay real money to get?
I remember when players were complaining that adding new ships and equipment to the C-Store would only open the flood gates to "Pay to Win" but now low and behold we have the almighty Lockbox that has introduced the new term "Pay to Luck Win"
If Cryptic is to continue with this almighty lockbox cash siphon it might behoove them to figure out how to tie in companion items to be placed in the Z-Store for outright purchase be it ships, consoles or weapons sets and in doing so this will help stabilize the value of Zen.
But one would have to ask the question why stabilize Zen when players seem to be perfectly happy with buying ungodly amounts of it for the sole purpose of converting it into freely generated in-game currency that only used in normal game progression.
Sure Guys I'll pay you to play this F2P game, at least it's not Pay to Win :rolleyes:
uhm you're a veteran so it would be 9000 day assuming you use the Academy NPC that gives you another 1000 refinement
What do you spend $50-100 a month on in this game? Do you play at all, or just buy everything?
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Actually it's 1000 Dilithium every 2 days.
This statement is false. You (cryptic) set the supply and create demand for it, and you can (secretly or overtly) engage in active monetary policy by pumping zen or dil into the system, or taking them out, including fixing the trivial investigate officer reports daily which seriously impacted the market.
The exchange is player driven within the confines of the monetary (i.e. game design) regime set by Cryptic and adjusted as you see fit. If you increased (or decreased) dil costs for fleet projects or items by a factor of 2 without changing the rate of earning dil that would effect the dil-zen market. So '100% player driven' is not true, players don't control the dil prices for the dilithium sinks in the game, nor do they control the number of zen items in the store, their price, or desirability etc.
I'm not saying the exchange is bad. To claim it is 100% player driven is false however.
Which equals 500 Extra A Day...
Math Class... always reduce your fractions to the lowest common denominator.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Sometimes people seem to forget that the game wasn't made F2P to reduce profits, but to increase them. The rule of thumb with successful F2P games is that 90% of the players spend nothing or nearly nothing, and the other 10% make up for it. Those folks are averaging a lot more than $15 a month on average or the math wouldn't work out. Since there were many people spending more than that BEFORE the change, and now they have many more things they can advance their game by buying (Dilithium counts), it stands to reason there's still a lot folks spending a lot of money. I definitely averaged more than $15 a month last year, although that was split between here and CO.
I average more than that now, again split, although I don't know what I'll be spending in three months.
External Factors will always effect a Market... that's kinda-sorta a given.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
That's quite the diss.
You're right, tho.
He's dead, Jim.
Nah, it's not a diss. But in the context of the OPs point about "the Dilth Econ [is] being ran by greedy over the top business execs" that I'm replying to, I feel I am correct -- it's being run by greedy players :P. Players set the price they are willing to trade for, and as it's been said many times, by many Devs, we do not manipulate the exchange. Sure, a new Item purchasable by ZEN or Dilithium will cause the market to fluctuate. Also, Dilithium has never been more accessible than it has been now, yet the market is still on the lower side. This is due to the buy and sell orders that players, not Devs, want to make.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Yes, but players have the desire to buy and sell in these patterns due to the decisions PWE makes, to whit: there are currently a tremendous number of things in player and fleet advancement that require Dilithium, and not many new things to spend Zen on. Yes, there's more Dil than ever; but the need for it has increased far beyond that.
This is true. For those who sell dilthium for zen, the market is booming. It wasn't all that long ago that it was just the opposite.
Ebb and flow is inevitable. Whichever side is on the low end of the teeter-totter at the moment will be unhappy; the other side will think everything is fine.
Wasn't trying to say he was rude or hostile, rather that his argument was brutally on point.
We're arguing semantics now.
I trust the offers on the dil exchange are 100% player made, but Cryptics influence on dilithium demand (and consequently value/price) cannot be questioned.
The same is true with the demand for Zen, of course, and the supply side of dilithium has historically changed very little on Cryptics part.
I declare a tie.
He's dead, Jim.
Plus there's the 8000 Dilithium a day (8500 if you're a Vet; and use the NPC Refinement Doff assignment regularly.) At this point, on my main without even trying hard I have a constant backlog (40 K) of Dilithium I'll never be able to refine unless I take a little under a week of entirely from playing STO.
Yes - Dilithium Ore is indeed more plentiful and easy to get; but there's so much more in game that take refined Dilithium (and nothing really new in the Zen based C-Store); that Zen will be a less valued commodity in STO for some time tio come, unless there's some sort of C-Store item explosion coming soon with items the players actually want.
Hell, even the lockbox ship reward spam is way down, (meaning not many master keys being sold/used); so, either STO real-income for Cryptic/PWE is down atm; OR they're making a mint off players who aren't concerned with playing the STO in game market per se; and buying Zen and converting it into refined Dilithium at a breakneck pace for Starbases or other items from the in-game Dilithium stores and/or the new Reputation system.
(BTW - even with Dilithium Ore so plentiful, I STILL need to ask why NONE of the main game Story arc episode content gives some small reward for playing it. IMO it's now a vicious cycle, as I'm sure data-mining shows not many players play the STO episode content all the way though, BUT, I'm 100% certain that's because there's ZERO dilithium to be had for doing so, and dilithium acquisition has become one of the main things to do to progress in STO and get the really good endgame gear.
I think that said, because I still like a lot of the episode content in the game and would like to see more; but because of the system in place; I don't think we'll see a lot of new episodic content, just more repeatable grind/PVE queue ciontent that doesn't add much to the story in STO (IMO).
I really do think it's time; and you guys ALSO add a small Dilithium Ore reward to your episodic story mission content [and believe it should have been that way since DAY ONE of the F2P conversion] - how can you still call Dilithium STO's 'time-based currency' and a reward for time spent doing content in game when a BIG PORTION [and it was the main portion at STO launch, and something the KDF faction still needs more of] of your prime in game content reward NO Dilithium Ore at all?)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Personally, I am at a complete loss as to how this system could keep the dil exchange above 25. Considering the dilithium grinder is the one putting in the time here I would think they'd be less generous to those looking to buy dilithium for zen. Even at its lowest point, that's still grinding for less than minimum wage. Of course all of this is moot if you really think about it. None of the items acquired either way has a benefit beyond enabling more grinding, or playing content you could have gotten through with a free ship using stock gear.
Has anyone here asked themselves what value this game has once you're done scrambling for shiny things?
I have a bunch of fleet projects to finish but I'll be dammed to spend 2x the amount to finish them now.
The players are the ones ruining the economy , all trying to undercut the next guy, well all that undercutting has reduced the price so damned much!
It needs to be cleared out and restarted! ( as insane as that might sound lol )
Even with all the readditions, there's still a major difference between dilithium now and dilithium before S7: While it's easier to get your 8000 per day, it's much harder to get that first 3000 or so. Thanks to the click-to-win foundry missions and doubled up B'tran daily, it was possible to get your first 4320 dilithium in about 30 minutes per character, and the first 1440 in barely longer than the loadscreens took to log in and back out. That's how most people got their dilithium, hopping alt to alt and hitting the freebies, not hitting their freebies and then hitting the slow run up to 8000.
With the first 1000 being no harder than the last 1000 now, people aren't doing that. So the dilithium refined per log in has probably gone up, per account has probably gone down, which is the amount players can harness to buy zen.
Well, not directly, but the Devs do have the ability to control how easy it is to earn dilithium.
I do not mind the dilithium economy so much, because you guys have to make your money somewhere and I think that setting up the exchange was actually a pretty clever way of doing it. What I do mind is gambling with real currency, and that is why I stopped spending money.
Still, I could see spending money if you released something in the c-store that I really wanted, like a TNG bridge pack and my stipend did not cover it. But most of what you seem to be focusing on are lottery items, or consolation prizes for those who play the lottery (id est the lobi store).
If you made those items available similar to how you made the breen ship available, or as a c-store unlock, I would probably drop some cash on them.
I like this game, but the gambling just kills me.
You.... You existential nihilist!
Have you asked yourself what's the value of life once you're dead?
It's fundamentally the same question, really.
The value of the game and of life is to give you what you want (it's a free will thing).
What people want is complex; as is how they attempt to attain it.
He's dead, Jim.
qft
Realists often encounter this kind of reaction. Confront people with the futility of their endeavor and they just have to freak out.
That's not what I had asked either, but thanks for trying. The futility of the endeavor lies in grinding for something you don't need, which I did point out.
He wasn't speaking in first person.
Regarding the futility part. Everything is; especially resistance.
He's dead, Jim.
Lol.... I did not see that one comming but I should have!