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Proposal: Universal BOFF skills???

shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
Not sure if this idea has already been proposed, so please bear with me. I know many will probably object to this idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there for players to consider.

Currently all of STO's bridge officer abilities are strictly categorized as a tactical, engineer, or science skill. However, many TNG episodes routinely depicted officers implementing skills that fell outside of STO's profession "mold" (tacticals rotating weapon frequencies was quite common when engaging Borg). Certain mundane ship functions should be available to all professions as part of basic starship training -- using maneuvering thrusters for maximizing turns, Z-axis movement, landing procedures, sealing hull breaches, etc. Some of these skills are already present in the game as non-profession functions: Equalize Shield Distribution, Brace for Impact, Evasive Maneuvers, etc. However, I'm proposing a new set of skills that take up a BOFF skill slot but not tied to any particular BOFF profession. Its objective: To grant ships more build versatility and allow them to access more rounded abilities. However, since these new skills are non-specialized ship operations skills, their effects will not be as good as other dedicated profession skills. This idea allows science officers to enhance weapons, tacticals to rotate weapon frequencies, engineers to enhance ship turn speeds, etc... all on a limited basis. These new skills will be similar to MMO 'cantrips.'

Some ideas off the top of my head:

-Maneuvering Thrusters: Rotates ship 90-degrees port or starboard rapidly while ship is under 10 impulse speed (rotation type is locked once turn direction is made)
-Z-Axis Thrusters: Moves ship 1km up or down while impulse speed is less than 10 (direction is locked once thrusters are activated)
-Damage Control Team: very small hull heal
-Rapid Torpedo Reload: cuts the next torpedo shared global cooldown by 25%
-Rotate Weapon Frequency: gain random 1%-5% shield penetration per shot

By implementing these new skills, cruisers will no longer be all-defense-no-offense, tacticals will have access to some small hull heals, science will have more tricks to play with, etc.

Please feel free to suggest other minor BOFF skills that should be known by all starship personnel.
Post edited by shar487a on

Comments

  • sumghaisumghai Member Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    shar487a wrote: »
    -Maneuvering Thrusters: Rotates ship 90-degrees port or starboard rapidly while ship is under 10 impulse speed (rotation type is locked once turn direction is made)

    At the lowest possible impulse speed, I can already turn 90 degrees port or starboard quite quickly on the spot.

    Of course, I was using a RCS console.
    shar487a wrote: »
    -Z-Axis Thrusters: Moves ship 1km up or down while impulse speed is less than 10 (direction is locked once thrusters are activated)

    Not sure about this, either - this only time this would be useful would be in a situation similar to Kirk and Khan's battle in the Mutara Nebula in TWoK, where the former took advantage of the latter's unfamiliarity with 3D space combat by deliberately ducking to let Khan overtake him and then strike him from behind.

    That being said, enemy space NPCs in STO are smart enough to avoid such scenarios, making this particular power moot.
    shar487a wrote: »
    -Damage Control Team: very small hull heal

    Clearly an Engineering/Operations sort of BOff ability.
    shar487a wrote: »
    -Rapid Torpedo Reload: cuts the next torpedo shared global cooldown by 25%
    -Rotate Weapon Frequency: gain random 1%-5% shield penetration per shot

    Obviously Tactical oriented.
    Laws of thermodynamics as applied to life: 0 - You must play the game. 1 - You can't win. 2 - You can't break even. 3 - You can't quit.
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    sumghai wrote: »
    At the lowest possible impulse speed, I can already turn 90 degrees port or starboard quite quickly on the spot.

    Of course, I was using a RCS console.



    Not sure about this, either - this only time this would be useful would be in a situation similar to Kirk and Khan's battle in the Mutara Nebula in TWoK, where the former took advantage of the latter's unfamiliarity with 3D space combat by deliberately ducking to let Khan overtake him and then strike him from behind.

    That being said, enemy space NPCs in STO are smart enough to avoid such scenarios, making this particular power moot.



    Clearly an Engineering/Operations sort of BOff ability.



    Obviously Tactical oriented.


    Yes, agreed with the above, but what do you think of these lesser abilities being used to fill any BOFF ability slot? Breaking the mold even just a little bit can open a new world of possibilities.
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Wow, 100 views and only 1 reply. I guess players are only luke-warm to this idea :(
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Nah, it just takes some time for people to think about it.

    I still have to think about it before I can post a coherent answer.

    The only thing (that's not entirely on topic) I can say is that some of it reminds of an entirely different idea I had a few years back...wayyy before we got anything that was called a flagship I came up with the idea of "command ships" that would provide ships around them with buffs like added accuracy or added defense by using special "Flag Officers".
    Those would replace some of the "useful" BOs similar ships would have otherwise.
    So the idea was that in such a setup a comand ship on its own would be less useful than a normal non-command ship but would add something useful to a fleet of ships flying in formation.
  • lolimpicardlolimpicard Member Posts: 309
    edited January 2013
    sumghai wrote: »
    only time this would be useful would be in a situation similar to Kirk and Khan's battle in the Mutara Nebula in TWoK, where the former took advantage of the latter's unfamiliarity with 3D space combat by deliberately ducking to let Khan overtake him and then strike him from behind.

    That being said, enemy space NPCs in STO are smart enough to avoid such scenarios, making this particular power moot.

    I won't tolerate such Khan-dissing.
    They fought in a nebula that impeded sensors and shields severely.

    The STO AI equivalent to this is sitting around doing nothing with shields down until you're destroyed.

    I'm confident that Khan could beat STO AI just fine, altho Kirks fancy z-axis maneuvers are almost impossible in STO because this game doesn't really have a z-axis, which works in Khans favour.
    It's not far from a 2.5D game like Wolfenstein.

    So while Kirk beats Khan, Khan beats STO AI and STO AI actually beats Kirk, because he can't do his z-axis shenanigans.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    He's dead, Jim.
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I won't tolerate such Khan-dissing.
    They fought in a nebula that impeded sensors and shields severely.

    The STO AI equivalent to this is sitting around doing nothing with shields down until you're destroyed.

    I'm confident that Khan could beat STO AI just fine, altho Kirks fancy z-axis maneuvers are almost impossible in STO because this game doesn't really have a z-axis, which works in Khans favour.
    It's not far from a 2.5D game like Wolfenstein.

    So while Kirk beats Khan, Khan beats STO AI and STO AI actually beats Kirk, because he can't do his z-axis shenanigans.

    By adding Z-axis thrusters into STO, we will bring STO that much closer to canon! :D
  • pantsmaster916pantsmaster916 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Isn't the idea of a Universal Boff power, pretty much the same as a Console ability?
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Why would anyone put a weak universal skill into a slot that could have a much better class-specific skill in it instead?
  • tancrediivtancrediiv Member Posts: 728 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Op, I see what you mean, but STO is just not set up that way.

    If it were my choice, equipment would be equipment and your officers level of skill with that equipment would determine the outcome. Tractor beams are a piece of equipment installed only on Tuesdays and every ship has them. In STO, no ship has them unless you sacrifice something for them because it is all about the Boff. We should have an equipment slot for each type of ship equipment with tractor beam MK I to XII, same as other weapons and gear, then Boff with a skill set to operate said gear to determine efficiency of power transfers, shield buffs, weapons buff, etc.

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  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Isn't the idea of a Universal Boff power, pretty much the same as a Console ability?

    The answer is no, because these routine BOFF abilities simulate skills that all Starfleet / KDF personel are supposed to have, like basic thruster control, minor damage control, frequency remodulation, general sensor scans, etc. As a result, they occupy a BOFF ability slot, not a device console slot.
    warpangel wrote: »
    Why would anyone put a weak universal skill into a slot that could have a much better class-specific skill in it instead?

    STO professions are so over-focused that they forget the Academy cadet basics. Why can't an Engineer use Maneuvering Thrusters? Why can't a Tactical Officer remodulate weapon frequencies when weapon systems are his specialty? Why can't Science Officers take sensor readings of an enemy ship to figure out its shield operating frequency? STO has over-polarized its professions to the point that they've forgotten basic Starship piloting and operations.

    Universal BOFF powers seek to reintroduce fundamental starship operation skills to all the classes. Please keep in mind that you don't have to use any of these skills, but when there is an extra BOFF Slot sitting unused because it does not fit your build, then these universal skills will give you more options.

    tancrediiv wrote: »
    Op, I see what you mean, but STO is just not set up that way.

    If it were my choice, equipment would be equipment and your officers level of skill with that equipment would determine the outcome. Tractor beams are a piece of equipment installed only on Tuesdays and every ship has them. In STO, no ship has them unless you sacrifice something for them because it is all about the Boff. We should have an equipment slot for each type of ship equipment with tractor beam MK I to XII, same as other weapons and gear, then Boff with a skill set to operate said gear to determine efficiency of power transfers, shield buffs, weapons buff, etc.

    There are numerious STO examples of console slots giving clickable abilties with standard cooldown timers. Universal BOFF skills grant something similar, but they reflect starship operation basics, not exotic equipment granting new functions. Ship thruster controls do exist in Star Trek canon, but STO does not let you use them in combat at this time. Adding Universal BOFF abilities is relatively simple in coding terms, so Cryptic would not face significant challenges bring this feature to life. Copy/Paste anyone?
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    shar487a wrote: »

    Why can't an Engineer use Maneuvering Thrusters?

    Evasive Maneuvers 1,2 & 3, available to everyone past a certain level.
    shar487a wrote: »
    Why can't a Tactical Officer remodulate weapon frequencies when weapon systems are his specialty?

    Frequency remodulator, although I expect you mean DEM. Everyone can use DEM 1 if they so choose and get a frequency remodulator on the ground.
    shar487a wrote: »
    Why can't Science Officers take sensor readings of an enemy ship to figure out its shield operating frequency?

    I kinda thought this was the point of sensor analysis on science ships.
    shar487a wrote: »
    STO has over-polarized its professions to the point that they've forgotten basic Starship piloting and operations.

    Sounds more to me that you want a somewhat game breaking universal ensign slot on each and every ship. We had this briefly at the start of S7 and there was a lot of complaint about it.

    At the end of the day, you have to think about it from the point of view that if every captain could do everything you would have no need to specialise in careers or ships.
  • sumghaisumghai Member Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I concur with tc10b. Many of the powers suggested by the OP either offer too meager benefits compared to existing in-game career-specific BOff powers, or are duplicates of existing powers.
    Laws of thermodynamics as applied to life: 0 - You must play the game. 1 - You can't win. 2 - You can't break even. 3 - You can't quit.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Love the Z-axis idea.

    The rest, not really. We would end up with a series of subpar abilities that only mirror existing BOff abilities.

    I would support new BOff abilities though. New abilities, not ones that just mimic others unless its something like Beam Rapid Fire, which is career specific and would open more game options.
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  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    tc10b wrote: »
    Evasive Maneuvers 1,2 & 3, available to everyone past a certain level.

    Evasive Maneuvers is active avoidance of incoming weapon fire at very high ships speeds. Maneuvering Thrusters are exactly the opposite -- they make ship vector corrections at very low speeds. I don't know how you see them as one and the same. This is like comparing drag racing to parallel parking.
    tc10b wrote: »
    Frequency remodulator, although I expect you mean DEM. Everyone can use DEM 1 if they so choose and get a frequency remodulator on the ground.

    No, Frequency Remodulation for for space weapons, not ground. All Star Trek canon weapons and shields have an operating frequency, and this is well within the scope of canon tactical basics.
    tc10b wrote: »
    I kinda thought this was the point of sensor analysis on science ships.

    Yes, but even cadets can take basic ship sensor readings, though not on the same level of detail as full science vessels due to ship equipment disparity.

    tc10b wrote: »
    Sounds more to me that you want a somewhat game breaking universal ensign slot on each and every ship. We had this briefly at the start of S7 and there was a lot of complaint about it.

    No, I want STO to more accurately portray Star Trek canon. Also please note that I am not asking for skills that even measure up to Ensign level profession abilities -- just general purpose star ship mundane skills. These will be Tier-zero skills.

    Bridge officers already have dedicated profession skills, so why are their general skill sets completely missing? All military personel receive certain degrees of cross-training: hand to hand combat, first-aid, wilderness survival, etc. We see this everyday in the form of mundane skills like driving, cooking, reporting, chess, poker, etc. Not everyone will have neurosurgeon or pro-athlete skills, but they will have generalized skills like reading, language, games, etc. STO has overlooked this basic facet of the game. I'm simply applying it to the BOFF skill slots.
    tc10b wrote: »
    At the end of the day, you have to think about it from the point of view that if every captain could do everything you would have no need to specialise in careers or ships.

    The Tier-zero skills will never be as good as full Ensign, Lt, Lt.Cmdr, or Commander level skills. However, they should take up an actual BOFF skill slot if the player decides that he/she has the space to use basic docking thrusters. Keep in mind that the skill list I provided are only suggestions -- It is up to Cryptic to decide what will work as a Tier-zero skill and what won't. If such a Tier-Zero skill system is game breaking, then STO's starship combat system will never get any better, not due to lack of resources, but because the players and dev's lack creativity.
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    sumghai wrote: »
    I concur with tc10b. Many of the powers suggested by the OP either offer too meager benefits compared to existing in-game career-specific BOff powers, or are duplicates of existing powers.

    bitemepwe wrote: »
    Love the Z-axis idea.

    The rest, not really. We would end up with a series of subpar abilities that only mirror existing BOff abilities.

    I would support new BOff abilities though. New abilities, not ones that just mimic others unless its something like Beam Rapid Fire, which is career specific and would open more game options.

    I completely agree -- The skills I suggested are only brain-stormed ideas. Cryptic will have to decide what is a Tier-Zero appropriate skill vs. what is not, then work out the details themselves. I'm only trying to get the ball rolling with non-profession-specific skills being available to all BOFF's.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    You already have complete control of the throttle of your ship which you can use to make course corrections and changes etc. Ever tried putting your ship in reverse whilst using aux to dampers? You get nice quick movements perfect for reversing round a corner.

    This was why I mentioned Directed Energy Modulation an engineering Lt. Skill which allows hull penetrating damage to be added to all energy weapons. This skill is based on your idea of frequency modulation ala Star Trek Generations although scaled down.

    Bridge officers don't have their basic military skills missing. On the ground all your Boffs have firearms training, can do hand to hand combat. They can all "resuscitate" each other equally proficiently using tricorder CPR. (I imagine they are skilled in field-craft as well but we won't see this in game.)

    Don't forget as well that even with a crew at 0, your ship will still repair itself, keep shields up and distributed, fire weapons and injured crew will become healed.

    At the end of the day, this is a game some parts of it need to remain unrealistic due to the nature of games as nothing will ever have 100% realism.

    It annoys me I can't move my ship properly in 3D and pull a "hard 180" but c'est la vie.

    And space combat in this game is getting worse not because of a lack of these "basic skills" but because C-Store consoles are offering overpowered, irresistible versions of these abilities to all players that are normally only available to specific classes. This sounds to me, like another example of this.
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    tc10b wrote: »
    You already have complete control of the throttle of your ship which you can use to make course corrections and changes etc. Ever tried putting your ship in reverse whilst using aux to dampers? You get nice quick movements perfect for reversing round a corner.

    Yes, Aux2Dmp is nice, but it should not be a requirement for quick turns at low speeds. If you try to turn your ship at zero forward movement, it barely pivots. Forward or reverse movement should NOT be a requirement to turn a ship -- that is a property of earth-bound cars, not star ships. Star ships also have lateral thrusters and Z-axis thrusters -- these are required for space docking operations but largely overlooked.

    tc10b wrote: »
    This was why I mentioned Directed Energy Modulation an engineering Lt. Skill which allows hull penetrating damage to be added to all energy weapons. This skill is based on your idea of frequency modulation ala Star Trek Generations although scaled down.

    Changing any device frequency is as simple as turning a TRIBBLE -- you do this when you change radio stations or channel-surf. Getting the correct frequency to sync with a shield is another matter, but if you cycle linearly through the available frequency spectrum, then you will eventually hit the right number if that number is fixed. This is why I think tacticals and science officers should get a scaled down version of weapon frequency remodulation or DEM -- because all they need to do is turn a TRIBBLE or press the up/down button ;)

    tc10b wrote: »
    Bridge officers don't have their basic military skills missing. On the ground all your Boffs have firearms training, can do hand to hand combat. They can all "resuscitate" each other equally proficiently using tricorder CPR. (I imagine they are skilled in field-craft as well but we won't see this in game.)

    They are missing some basic ship piloting and operation skills if the game does not support those skills at this time. Shared space skill sets do exist between officers, but the game does not currently support them. Introducing them would be as simple as coding the skill, then copying them to all 3 class skill tables.
    tc10b wrote: »
    Don't forget as well that even with a crew at 0, your ship will still repair itself, keep shields up and distributed, fire weapons and injured crew will become healed.

    At the end of the day, this is a game some parts of it need to remain unrealistic due to the nature of games as nothing will ever have 100% realism.

    It annoys me I can't move my ship properly in 3D and pull a "hard 180" but c'est la vie.

    I agree with the above, but it is within the Cryptic Dev's ability to fine-tune the game and fill in the missing gaps.

    tc10b wrote: »
    And space combat in this game is getting worse not because of a lack of these "basic skills" but because C-Store consoles are offering overpowered, irresistible versions of these abilities to all players that are normally only available to specific classes. This sounds to me, like another example of this.

    This is why I'm leaving the exact skill details in the hands of Cryptic -- it's their game, and they can determine what Tier-zero skills will work and what won't. Skill overlaps can safely exist so long as the dev's plan accordingly -- there is nothing it the game that prevents them from being balanced in everyone's hands. Otherwise, you'd never see any of the Starship captains being able to fill engineering, tactical, or science officer posts when those personel get injured mid space combat -- the latter is seen happening all the time in both TOS and TNG.
  • captiandata1captiandata1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    having boff's with some cross skills training would be cool and handy in certain cases.

    like engingeneering/science or engineneering/tactial hybird boff's could solve the cruisers that have too many overlapping engineneering powers particually the thrid engineneering boff on cruisers.

    like tactial/enginenerring or tactal/science hydird boff's could solve the too many tactial ablilities on some escorts.

    last not like that science really need hybird boff's because science has more then enough non over lapping cooldown to have fun . science hibird boff's like science/tactial or science/engineneering
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    like tactial/enginenerring or tactal/science hydird boff's could solve the too many tactial ablilities on some escorts.

    This is the problem with your suggestion. If you start removing the disadvantages of each type of ship you start making glass cannons into super tanks.
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    tc10b wrote: »
    This is the problem with your suggestion. If you start removing the disadvantages of each type of ship you start making glass cannons into super tanks.

    True, but since these new skills will be equally accessible to all classes, everyone should enjoy a more generalized skill pool, resulting in better game play for all. Ship BOFF slots won't change, so there should be no dramatic shift in how they work now. What will change is how players use their ships in light of whatever new universal BOFF skills go live.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    shar487a wrote: »
    -Maneuvering Thrusters: Rotates ship 90-degrees port or starboard rapidly while ship is under 10 impulse speed (rotation type is locked once turn direction is made)
    -Z-Axis Thrusters: Moves ship 1km up or down while impulse speed is less than 10 (direction is locked once thrusters are activated)
    -Damage Control Team: very small hull heal
    -Rapid Torpedo Reload: cuts the next torpedo shared global cooldown by 25%
    -Rotate Weapon Frequency: gain random 1%-5% shield penetration per shot

    Interesting idea all in all. I do agree that a larger variety of skills would make some ensign level slots more useful and such. As for them being 'universal'...I'm on the fence about that part.

    Thrusters: Interesting indeed. At the very least, good for cruisers and large ships. Would get an escort who isn't paying attention off your back and such at least.

    Torpedo Reload: Not bad. Some torpedoes have a very long CD, but this would make it a little more reasonable.

    Rotate Weapon Frequency: Might be better to have this as a flat number, like normal DEM is, instead of a percentage.

    Damage Control Team: Only good if it does NOT share cooldown with Eng/Sci/Tac team abilities. Otherwise, it's not useful at all. If it doesn't, it'd be a good ability because it'd use up what could otherwise be useless ensign slots.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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