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Fleet Varanus: You Did it Wrong, Cryptic.

aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
edited February 2013 in Klingon Discussion
Seriously, what gives? A tac console? That's it? If you want the KDF to have a competitive science ship, we need one that has at least 3 tactical powers. A single Lt. Tac doesn't cut it.

Suggestion: Swap the Ensign Eng slot to Tactical, or swap the Lt. Com science power onto the Lt. tactical slot, to make it more balanced. Right now, this ship is all science and engineering...which makes it useless when you have an Orb Weaver.

In short, a lockbox ship shouldn't be the only real option the KDF has for a good, useful science ship.
Post edited by aethon3050 on
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Comments

  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Well, the fleet versions of most T5 ships don't differ from the "basic" model in terms of BO layout so it's hardly surprising this isn't the case with the Varanus.
    However Cryptic has yet to add Fleet versions of the Corsair and Draguas to the Fleet Store.
    There's a pretty good chance those two will be quite different in terms of focus than the Varanus.
  • aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Two things.

    First off, the Varanus is the beauty queen of the Gorn fleet; if anything, THAT should be the good one. Why make us fly the ugly ones to have good stats?

    Second, there are plenty of ships on both sides with totally different boff layouts on their fleet versions (hell, look at the Fleet Vor'Cha; that thing is a totally different beast than its non-fleet counterpart). Why not the Varanus?

    If you want a good KDF science ship, you're still stuck using a lockbox ship; this is just wrong, and really needs to be addressed.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    aethon3050 wrote: »
    Two things.

    First off, the Varanus is the beauty queen of the Gorn fleet; if anything, THAT should be the good one. Why make us fly the ugly ones to have good stats?

    Who are you or me to decide which ship is pretty or ugly and thus "deserves" good stats?:confused:

    Besides I don't think the setup is bad anyway.
    aethon3050 wrote: »
    Second, there are plenty of ships on both sides with totally different boff layouts on their fleet versions (hell, look at the Fleet Vor'Cha; that thing is a totally different beast than its non-fleet counterpart). Why not the Varanus?

    If by "plenty" you mean three (the Fleet Patrol, Fleet Negh'var and Fleet Vor'cha)...this seems to be mostly intended to avoid redundancies.
    The Fleet K't'inga already has the same BO layout as the T5 Vor'cha so there would have been no point in a Fleet Vor'cha with the same layout.
    aethon3050 wrote: »
    If you want a good KDF science ship, you're still stuck using a lockbox ship; this is just wrong, and really needs to be addressed.

    I agree they need to do something about it, which is why I made a thread about Klingon scouts and I think there's still a good chance the other two Gorn ships will get different stats on their fleet versions.
    That you don't like their looks...I'm afraid that can't be helped.:(
  • aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    Who are you or me to decide which ship is pretty or ugly and thus "deserves" good stats?:confused:

    Besides I don't think the setup is bad anyway.



    If by "plenty" you mean three (the Fleet Patrol, Fleet Negh'var and Fleet Vor'cha)...this seems to be mostly intended to avoid redundancies.
    The Fleet K't'inga already has the same BO layout as the T5 Vor'cha so there would have been no point in a Fleet Vor'cha with the same layout.



    I agree they need to do something about it, which is why I made a thread about Klingon scouts and I think there's still a good chance the other two Gorn ships will get different stats on their fleet versions.
    That you don't like their looks...I'm afraid that can't be helped.:(


    While looks are subjective to personal opinion, I've yet to hear anyone say they preferred the look of the Phalanx or Draguas to the Varanus; I'm not saying this person isn't out there, but they certainly seem to be the minority; thus why I said what I said.

    I'm mainly talking about science ships here, so take a look at all the different NICE layouts on the Fed science ships. You have one with four tactical consoles and 3 tac powers, and you have another with three tactical consoles and a Lt. Com tactical. Considering how important damage output is in this game, this effectively makes both of those ships...as well as the lockbox ships...far more useful in most situations than the Fleet Varanus.

    What I'm asking for is a ship that is generally useful, not a niche ship that only performs well when you build it one specific way.

    I like your scout ships idea, btw; I'd definitely love to see that happen at some point.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I just thought I'd mention that Science has proven looks to not be subject entirely to personal opinion. There is in fact objective beauty. Wierd.

    And the state of KDF Sci ships is entirely dire. This may go back to the old BoP's and Carriers as ersatz science ships that the game started with. (remember that one?) Toss those ships into the mix and you see that the KDF is doing quite well on multipurpose Sci Ships. We may not agree with the concept of a cloaked sci bombing run raider, but it exists in the game as a fact.

    That being said, I think all the Gorn ships are pretty and I would love to have one with 3 tac abilites in any combination.
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    You know, if the Fleet Varanus had a LtC tac slot and NO OTHER CHANGES, it'd be worth it.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • edited January 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • maddog0000doommaddog0000doom Member Posts: 1,017 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    sorry guys but ur wasting ur time feds will always get the sweeter deal it all goes back to stahls bang for buck model.

    i lost hope long ago that the kdf would be treated as a equal faction. feds will always get better and more ships than kdf. the only light at the end of the tunnel is lock box ship :-(
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • maddog0000doommaddog0000doom Member Posts: 1,017 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    No, you are asking for another Tactical ship.

    The Varanus is a science ship and I am starting to get fed up with Kirks that will not bother looking past of its Tactical stations and slots layout.

    Its a specialized support ship, its not a tactical cruiser and its certainly not a Vesta.

    no hes asking for a ship equal to the feds
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    no hes asking for a ship equal to the feds

    What do you mean by equal? Don't you mean "identical in every way"?:confused:
    The Varanus has a BO layout equal to that of the FDSSV and a console layout equal to the FSV.
    It's just not a carbon-copy any more.
  • aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    no hes asking for a ship equal to the feds

    This. I'd be fine with it if there was another version of the Varanus that was designed as a counter to the nice stuff the Feds get...but there isn't. Damage output is the most valuable thing in PVE, so I think it's natural to judge two similar ships by their differences in that field.
  • aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    What do you mean by equal? Don't you mean "identical in every way"?:confused:
    The Varanus has a BO layout equal to that of the FDSSV and a console layout equal to the FSV.
    It's just not a carbon-copy any more.

    I'd like to see the KDF get something like the Fleet Nova, or the Fleet Luna. Those both have 3 or more tac consoles AND 3 or more tac powers...yet they're still science ships, not tactical ships.

    I guess the way to sum it up is 'science ship with teeth'.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    aethon3050 wrote: »
    I'd like to see the KDF get something like the Fleet Nova, or the Fleet Luna. Those both have 3 or more tac consoles AND 3 or more tac powers...yet they're still science ships, not tactical ships.

    I guess the way to sum it up is 'science ship with teeth'.

    I'm with you on this, it's just that...you know...the Varanus is called a "Support ship" because that's its actual function and this is refelcted in its BO layout.

    Out of universe, why they gave it the 3rd Tac console instead of another Science or Engineering console is a bit of a mystery to me, but it might be because they didn't want to overspecialize it like the DSSV or make it too tanky given the repair drones.
    In-universe...well it's possible the Varanus is expected to support its fleet/squad with some more firepower.

    Given their level and BO layout, I'd probably make the smaller Phalanx a rough counterpart to the Fleet Nova and the Fleet Draguas some kind of Fleet Nebby.
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Well, let me clarify: if they were going to make the Fleet Varanus a more toothy version of the regular Varanus, they should have gone with better tac bo, not tac console. I mean, wooo, my few weapons do a little more damage? Meh.

    As for copies, Varanus is a near-perfect replica of the DSSV. Just with worse shields. (which cheeses me off, big time)

    Fleet DSSV comes with 5 science consoles. Which makes way more sense.


    Again, if they were going to say 'well, the Fleet Varanus is going to follow the general KDF impulse toward warmaking,' fine, but an extra tac console is really silly.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    Well, let me clarify: if they were going to make the Fleet Varanus a more toothy version of the regular Varanus, they should have gone with better tac bo, not tac console. I mean, wooo, my few weapons do a little more damage? Meh.

    As for copies, Varanus is a near-perfect replica of the DSSV. Just with worse shields. (which cheeses me off, big time)

    Fleet DSSV comes with 5 science consoles. Which makes way more sense.


    Again, if they were going to say 'well, the Fleet Varanus is going to follow the general KDF impulse toward warmaking,' fine, but an extra tac console is really silly.

    I couldn't agree more; it just feels like the whole thing was an afterthought, and they obviously didn't read the forums, since several of us made threads/replied to threads asking for a Varanus with an extra tac power (be it conversion of the ensign eng to ensign tac, or adding that power to the lt. tac to make it a lt. com).

    I appreciate that Cryptic finally gave us a fleet version, of course; unfortunately, it doesn't do anything the original can't do, which means I'm not going to spend money to get one. If anything, it's actually the same as the standard, from my perspective; my Varanus doesn't need to use a console slot for its repair drone ability...it's just an innate power. If I buy the fleet one, I'll have to use a console for that ability...which negates the extra console on the fleet version, lol.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    What console?:confused:
    The Fleet Varanus is supposed to have its special ability built-in just like the Fleet B'rel.
    What are you talking about?:confused:
  • xigbargxigbarg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The console for buying the C-store Varanus. Ship is awesome looking. A real jewel among the Klingon fleet. Should I get the Zen for it, i'd play my gorn dood more just because of that ship.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    xigbarg wrote: »
    The console for buying the C-store Varanus. Ship is awesome looking. A real jewel among the Klingon fleet. Should I get the Zen for it, i'd play my gorn dood more just because of that ship.

    Once again: the Varanus has.no.special.console.
    Its repair platform ability is entirely built-in.
    There is no console.
  • xigbargxigbarg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    My mistake then. I just based everything on the wiki and the two bolded [Console - Universal - Repair Platform] that are on the page. Sounds like it needs some editing, Heh.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edited January 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    Once again: the Varanus has.no.special.console.
    Its repair platform ability is entirely built-in.
    There is no console.

    ... That's flat-out wrong, unless there's some weird legacy ship issue going on. I have two characters that occasionally use a Varanus, and they sure as heck have a Repair Platform console. The console is Varanus-only, not universal.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    The Fleet Intrepid have the exact same console layout as the Fleet Varanus, it also gained a 3rd Tactical console but no changes in BO Layout, still a Lt. Tactical.

    Well, except the Intrepid has an ensign Sci rather than Eng, but your point stands.

    I suppose in the end, I would say the extra tac console is somewhat nice, but not a primary motivation to get the ship. I just wish there was a KDF ship that did the same '5 sci slots!' thing, but what can you do.

    Fleet Varanus gets a shield a scootch better than non-fleet Fed sci ships, which is... better, I guess! And better hulls. And a little more damage.


    Too bad the old kinetic tac console thing doesn't work any more, or it'd be more exciting. ;)
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The Fleet Corsair makes a descent sci ship, four sci consoles, and a Sci lt. and a Sci lt. Commander bridge officers and it can equipt tacyon drones or interceptors which have a bit of the sci feel. Plus you can stick AUX power boosting consoles in its four engireering consoles, boosting your 5 sci powers. Guess you could do that with the Vanarus as well.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    ... That's flat-out wrong, unless there's some weird legacy ship issue going on. I have two characters that occasionally use a Varanus, and they sure as heck have a Repair Platform console. The console is Varanus-only, not universal.

    It might be a legacy issue, but I don't post BS on the forums:

    http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5391/rep001.jpg

    I don't even know what the icon for that console is supposed to look like (though I guess it looks like the icon for the ability) because I have never seen it for obvious reasons.
  • xigbargxigbarg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I trusted you. I read about it being a "grandfathered" thing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Thank you.
    I seem to be rather grumpy today.
  • maddog0000doommaddog0000doom Member Posts: 1,017 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    What do you mean by equal? Don't you mean "identical in every way"?:confused:
    The Varanus has a BO layout equal to that of the FDSSV and a console layout equal to the FSV.
    It's just not a carbon-copy any more.

    not a exact copy but atleast a ship that can go toe to toe.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gypsybladegypsyblade Member Posts: 730 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    aethon3050 wrote: »
    Seriously, what gives? A tac console? That's it? If you want the KDF to have a competitive science ship, we need one that has at least 3 tactical powers. A single Lt. Tac doesn't cut it.

    Suggestion: Swap the Ensign Eng slot to Tactical, or swap the Lt. Com science power onto the Lt. tactical slot, to make it more balanced. Right now, this ship is all science and engineering...which makes it useless when you have an Orb Weaver.

    In short, a lockbox ship shouldn't be the only real option the KDF has for a good, useful science ship.

    I don't get it.. you want a competitive science ship...

    But.. want more tactical stations... :confused:

    It's one of the best pure science ships KDF has access to... nothing KDF side can compete to it on a science level....

    I say leave it as is.. if you believe an Orb Weaver is better... go fly an Orb Weaver...

    If you're trying to get a ship that has the Weaver layout and free hull drones..well...
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    It might be a legacy issue, but I don't post BS on the forums:

    http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5391/rep001.jpg

    I don't even know what the icon for that console is supposed to look like (though I guess it looks like the icon for the ability) because I have never seen it for obvious reasons.

    Okay I just don't believe your information is current. I don't believe as the only source for this information is you, and you keep referencing the Fleet version, yet you are posting the original version. So I'm not really sure where your getting this information.

    My fleet version came with a console.

    Also I've dismissed and recalled my original version, still get a console. So I'll hazard a guess that your information is out of date.


    I've also opened a ticket for you. I hope they can help you out.
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yeah, Misterde, you have the original form of Varanus that doesn't come with a console. Currently Varanus comes with a specific console for the repair platform.

    That you didn't know that somewhat undermines your arguments.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
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