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trwarbucktrwarbuck Member Posts: 274 Arc User
You know I made Omega Tier 5 today. I went in to get ready to start preparing the unlocking of the MkXII Omega Ground set and SPace Sets and nearly died from a massive coronary infarction. The material cost for a MkXII to that of a MkXI is really steep. This lead me to compare the costs of a MkX to MkXI. Well same thing here.
When you compare the stat increase from MkX to MkXI and MkXI to MkXII the cost in material isn't justified when you compare the minor increase in the equipment's abilities. This is the case even with the MACO and Omega Space Sets. SO I am assuming that this is the same for the Reman MkXII very rare when compared to the Reman MkXII rare Space Set.

I feel that for the slight increase in abilities that is given, the material cost for each item is to steep. Either a more aggressive increase in ability scores needs to be presence when compared to the steep increase in material cost between a MkX to MkXI or MkXI to MkXII. Or the material costs needs to be lower to justify the minor increase in each ability score.

The Romulan Plasma energy weapons was also a big disappointment when I compared them to my Advanced Fleet plasma energy weapons. I use Damage x 3, Accuracy Advanced Fleet weapons. For the material costs that I used to unlock these weapons and the additional cost in purchasing them I expected a powerful weapon when I compared it to my Advanced Fleet weapons. NOPE! Big disappointment. And I am lead to understand that the difference between an Advanced Fleet weapon and an Elite Fleet weapon is so minor, but the cost is greatly increased.

The whole point of this is this. If you are going to require such a large amount of material to unlock items and to scale up your base to get such items. Such items needs to be worth the cost and time it took to get them.
Post edited by trwarbuck on

Comments

  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    For most people getting Mk X Space Sets is enough. IMO the only reason to get any Omega Mk XII gear is for purely aesthetic reasons with the ground sets. Of course, if you are a minmaxer, then you need to get Mk XII gear. The Romulan weapons are mainly for the gimmick. If you don't like the gimmick, then there is no need to get them.
  • bohiapbohiap Member Posts: 535
    edited January 2013
    But if you get the Mark XII you get a cool helmet ! :rolleyes:

    Yeah, I'm kinda with you. I got the MACO MK XII space and ground set pre-season 7 and the lottery almost drove me out of the game. All of those STFs just for a freakin' helmet- not much better on stats.

    At least the old way you could do normal stfs, grind up edc and buy a set of Mk XI eventually.
    It would take awhile, but you'd know how long that would be. That's kinda the point of the reputation system.

    I agree with the OP, the price difference between MXI & Mk XII is not reflected in the stats.

    I gotta slightly disagree with starkaos though. I would get a Mk XI set if I were going to do any kind of endgame play.
  • towanitowani Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yeah, it's just the sheer fact that you grind to get to T5, only to realize how crazy expensive the stuff is once you get there.

    Seriously, the concept is frustrating that you grind to get the priviledge to pay an insane amount for gear. Just cut out the grinding TRIBBLE and give me the upfront price. Ponzi-scheme.
    Hi. Apparently I'm new here and joined in Jun 2012. Guess I'm in good company though... seems everyone else joined then too!
  • heresincebetaheresincebeta Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Well, the Adapted MACO ground set is really amazing (i.e. not just for "minmaxers")... the grenade launcher is an item that the fedside didnt have before.

    Also the adapted KHG spaceset... +25 torp / +8? Aux power is a great 2-pce bonus.

    Sure it was expensive, but only took me a couple dozen elite STFs for all the OMEGA marks... and the cost of the items at T5 are weighted towards more OMEGA marks and less dilithium required, so I really couldn't complain.
  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    yeah, I made a similar post about this.
    I wrote how stupid this was. I mean the mk xi and mk xii borg engines were exactly the same, the only reason you had to buy it, so you can get a buff on the set bonus (and a tiny bonus on the deflector and shield)
    there needs to be either a buff on these items, or the prices need to be adjusted

    10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Have you looked on the exchange recently? I will use that as a comparison to what you're talking about and to help iterate my point.

    Neutronium Alloy mk XI gives a 17.5 increase to all defense. Neutronium Alloy mk XII gives and 18.8 increase, and a Neutronium Alloy mk XII gives an increase of 20.

    Now when you actually look at the in game defense values, in reality that defense increase of 17.5-18.8-20 only gives about 0.75-1% defense bonus per increase per console. Miniscule at best. But look at the average exchange prices.

    Neutronium Alloy mk XI: 250k ECs
    Neutronium Alloy mk XII: 4.4 million ECs
    Neutronium Alloy mk XII: 35 million ECs

    So... we have a puny increase in effectiveness (~1%), but a massive, over 8-10x increase in cost.

    Now let's look at mk X to mk XI to mk XII sets. Same thing. You have only a TINY increase in performance (5% at best), but a huge hike in costs. But guess what, we already did that to ourselves. And that's how it's always been. Take your vendors for example. They sell you a mk I phaser beam array for what, 500? And yet if you look at it's stats, it's just under half as powerful as your standard mk XII phaser beam array, whose value is listed at over 11k. That's not a +100% cost increase for the +100% effectiveness, that's actually closer to +1900% increase in cost for the +100% effectiveness.

    That's how prices have always been. If you want things that have that small increase in power, then you have to pay for it. We already do that to ourselves with the market we control (the exchange), so Cryptic is just continuing that trend.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Have you looked on the exchange recently? I will use that as a comparison to what you're talking about and to help iterate my point.

    Neutronium Alloy mk XI gives a 17.5 increase to all defense. Neutronium Alloy mk XII gives and 18.8 increase, and a Neutronium Alloy mk XII gives an increase of 20.

    Now when you actually look at the in game defense values, in reality that defense increase of 17.5-18.8-20 only gives about 0.75-1% defense bonus per increase per console. Miniscule at best. But look at the average exchange prices.

    Neutronium Alloy mk XI: 250k ECs
    Neutronium Alloy mk XII: 4.4 million ECs
    Neutronium Alloy mk XII: 35 million ECs

    So... we have a puny increase in effectiveness (~1%), but a massive, over 8-10x increase in cost.

    Now let's look at mk X to mk XI to mk XII sets. Same thing. You have only a TINY increase in performance (5% at best), but a huge hike in costs. But guess what, we already did that to ourselves. And that's how it's always been. Take your vendors for example. They sell you a mk I phaser beam array for what, 500? And yet if you look at it's stats, it's just under half as powerful as your standard mk XII phaser beam array, whose value is listed at over 11k. That's not a +100% cost increase for the +100% effectiveness, that's actually closer to +1900% increase in cost for the +100% effectiveness.

    That's how prices have always been. If you want things that have that small increase in power, then you have to pay for it. We already do that to ourselves with the market we control (the exchange), so Cryptic is just continuing that trend.

    well there are many uncommon duty officers that cost less, than their common counterparts. so with your logic, I could argue that the higher lvl gear should be cheaper.

    also, since EC is not timegated, and easy to get, those prices are somewhat real (and driven by market), however these prices are just there to take our dilithium away, so the dil/zen rate is low. now there is nothing wrong with that, as long as we are getting something. but if the upgrade is not worth it, why bother. it is their interest, to make us purchase these items, but at this point, there is minor increase in usefulness (minor as in even smaller than the usual upgrades you can get on items, that are out there, and not tied to rep system)

    edit: also what you picked is a uniqe (aka useful) item, and its price is high. there are many items which are cheap even at mk xii very rare

    10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ferdzso0 wrote: »
    well there are many uncommon duty officers that cost less, than their common counterparts. so with your logic, I could argue that the higher lvl gear should be cheaper.

    also, since EC is not timegated, and easy to get, those prices are somewhat real (and driven by market), however these prices are just there to take our dilithium away, so the dil/zen rate is low. now there is nothing wrong with that, as long as we are getting something. but if the upgrade is not worth it, why bother. it is their interest, to make us purchase these items, but at this point, there is minor increase in usefulness (minor as in even smaller than the usual upgrades you can get on items, that are out there, and not tied to rep system)

    edit: also what you picked is a uniqe (aka useful) item, and its price is high. there are many items which are cheap even at mk xii very rare

    Using your own argument, if these prices are so extravagant and the bonus so small, why bother to get the items? Just stick with "good enough". I was trying to be nice to OP, but I think I should just say what I was planning on from the start.

    If you cannot be bothered to put out the resources for the slightly better gear, and you don't think the cost is justified, then you don't deserve this slightly better stuff and should stick with your "good enough" gear. The prices are there so that only the players who are really committed to getting these items get them, players who are willing to put out the resources and time to earn these items.

    I won't argue it's a slightly off system of doing things, but if you look at the time it takes to get the dil (provided you don't blow a bunch of cash on zen, in which case you should get the items for supporting the game, doesn't make you a better player) and the methods of getting dil (usually ESTFs/FAs), then you kind of did earn your keep already.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • ripp62ripp62 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ok why do you now cry about prices ? arent you happy you are almost 100% sure you will get the set ? i was raiding stfs before and only thing i got was full mk xi ground set and 1 mk xii space shield and mk xii space deflector.. now i am happy that i know i will one day for sure get my hands on mk xii sets and other stuff
  • duaths1duaths1 Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    yeah, BUT if the difference would be bigger you would whine that it is not fair and OP.

    i need 1000 more Omega marks to complete my MK XII ground set on my main, already having MK XI on other toons..

    also, there NEEDS to be something a slightly bigger, better, a candy ... and this is MK XII

    (and yes, i just changed from MK XI to MK XII in space, and there is barely a difference.. i mean no real difference - stick with your MK XI and you are good)
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ferdzso0 wrote: »
    well there are many uncommon duty officers that cost less, than their common counterparts.


    Isn't that due to differences in demand, though? Needing white doffs for projects, for example?

    ---

    In general, yes - at "end game" in most MMOs, small increases in power/utility tend to have geometrically increasing costs. One, because it's something to make you have to play longer to get it. Two, because it's targeted not at "average" players, but at the top-10% min/maxers who are driven to squeeze every last bonus they can get.
  • cyresofbsgocyresofbsgo Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Isn't that due to differences in demand, though? Needing white doffs for projects, for example?

    ---

    In general, yes - at "end game" in most MMOs, small increases in power/utility tend to have geometrically increasing costs. One, because it's something to make you have to play longer to get it. Two, because it's targeted not at "average" players, but at the top-10% min/maxers who are driven to squeeze every last bonus they can get.

    non-romulian MK XII purple plasma weapons only cost 2/3 the price of the MK XII purple Romulian weapons in romulian rep store, #1 you have to unlock rep store, #2 ONLY difrence is non-romulian gcomaritively has +1 [damage] proc, and the romulian ones have a disrupter proc in it's place.

    difrence of -0.34% damage from non-rom, for a 2.5% chance at -10% (-0.25% average target's defens)

    not ONLY is the Rom rep store more expensive, but the gear is WORSE than non-rep plasma weapons (not including sets)
    __________

    also the RIFLE UNLOCK, that says RIFLES, only unlocks high density rifles, I unlocked it wanting to get a sniper RIFLE, because sniper RIFLES, are normaly found under the RIFLES tab in a store. (that's a mute piont though since the gear costs more and is not as good as non-rep gear, and that's not even counting the cost of leveling up the rep, and unlocking the rep store itself, hell after all the "cost" to get to the project to unlock store and the cost to actualy do the unlock project, the frakking gear should cost EC, not Dill, already spent enogh Dill in rep marks, to fully equip 5 toons in ground gear, AND a ship in space weapons, if only I did just rep marks to dill projects instead and bought non-rep (and BETTER) gear.
    ______

    Remen and Rom space sets are practicly the same set, set bonus is the same, only minor difrences of maybe 1 proc between the 2 sets.
    _______

    Omega sets scale of price 1 set to another I think is actualy fine, but the set's MK X (and scaled for sets after) needs a reduction to a compairable priceing to other MK X gear.
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