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Breen Ship Should Be Able to Cloak

sekritagentsekritagent Member Posts: 510 Arc User
I'm not sure this was established canonly, but I thought Breen ships could cloak according to some throwaway dialogue on DS9 and TNG? Do I have that wrong?

Is the ship too OP to be fitted with a cloaking device either inherent with the ship (easiest to do for both Fed and KDF) or maybe a cloaking device console?
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  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Nope. The dialogue was speculation, and even then, only some Breen ships would have been able to cloak.

    In-game, the point is moot, as no Breen ship in-game can cloak, not even NPCs.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It's also possible that they used soemthing more like mask energy signature....
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  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It's also possible that they used soemthing more like mask energy signature....

    I think it's this.
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  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It can cloak now with the T5 Romulan Rep ability... too bad it only lasts 3 seconds :p
  • momawmomaw Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It's also possible that they used soemthing more like mask energy signature....

    No wonder the Dominion lost. Things might have turned out differently if the Breen had useful training for their science officers. :rolleyes:
  • vesolcvesolc Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I think that in Typhoon Pact they get cloak from Romes:P
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    vesolc wrote: »
    I think that in Typhoon Pact they get cloak from Romes:P

    The Typhon Pact doesn't exist in the STO universe, so no-go there. Furthermore, if the Breen got cloaking tech from the Romulans in Typhon Pact, it probably means they didn't have it before that, therefore they still don't have it in this universe.

    But yeah, I wouldn't put it past the Breen to use energy dampening on themselves as an MES of sorts.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I'm not sure this was established canonly, but I thought Breen ships could cloak according to some throwaway dialogue on DS9 and TNG?

    It never was at any point.
    Not even DS9-era soft-canon material include this.
    The explanation in the "Tales of the Dominion War" novel for the successful attack on the Sol System mentions the Breen using a holocloak (which we already have ingame) combined with firing their energy dampener at ESD to disable it.
    Do I have that wrong?

    Yes you do.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    In canon Trek, cloaking devices are installed into many ships that weren't originally designed for one, with little difficulty. There is no indication of special requirements for a ship to use a cloak, beyond the cloaking device itself. Even the Defiant wasn't designed to use a cloak, it was only added for the mission to the gamma quadrant.

    It would be entirely compatible with canon if all ships could take a cloak console.
  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    yeah, it should have a built in battlecloak, for sure. it is just so stupid, not to include such a thing with that ship

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  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I can't give an opinion regarding the lore, because I'm not that hot on it.

    But from a purely game play perspective wouldn't giving the Chel Grett a cloaking device make it a little OP?

    The ship is mental as it is. It can take a beating, it can fly circles around most ships (perhaps even give the Klingon a run for their money) and it can pack a punch. Personally I don't think it needs a cloak.

    I apologise if this is lore speculation and I've got the wrong end of the stick here, but just in case it is my 2 cents.
  • admiralm0ttadmiralm0tt Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I don't remember them cloaking in the TV series. I think for a free ship, it's fine the way it is... ;)
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Breen do not cloak
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    warpangel wrote: »
    In canon Trek, cloaking devices are installed into many ships that weren't originally designed for one, with little difficulty. There is no indication of special requirements for a ship to use a cloak, beyond the cloaking device itself. Even the Defiant wasn't designed to use a cloak, it was only added for the mission to the gamma quadrant.

    It would be entirely compatible with canon if all ships could take a cloak console.
    Well, yes and no. Yes, the Romulans can install cloaks on most ships. But, no, it's not that easy. I remember in several episodes they mentioned that the cloak has to be precisely calibrated to match the energy signature of the ship.
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  • elandarkskyelandarksky Member Posts: 1,013 Arc User
    edited January 2013

    A) I'm not sure this was established canonly, but I thought Breen ships could cloak according to some throwaway dialogue on DS9 and TNG? Do I have that wrong?

    B) Is the ship too OP to be fitted with a cloaking device either inherent with the ship (easiest to do for both Fed and KDF) or maybe a cloaking device console?

    A, doesn't sound familiar, the only speculation (apart from what's under the suit) about breen technology that i remember was that apparently they might use living ships, or something similar to bio-neural gel packs in their ships (think it was in the VOY episode 'scorpion')

    B, From my experiences with the chel, its more than strong enough without a cloak, as for adding a cloaking console that would be 2 consoles for one ship, a bit of a no-no :p
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  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I'm not sure this was established canonly, but I thought Breen ships could cloak according to some throwaway dialogue on DS9 and TNG? Do I have that wrong?
    As I'm sure many have said already, it has only ever been speculation from fans.

    The only credit to that speculation is how the Breen managed to get so close to Earth (cloaking devices would have greatly enhanced their chances).
    misterde3 wrote: »
    The explanation in the "Tales of the Dominion War" novel for the successful attack on the Sol System mentions the Breen using a holocloak (which we already have ingame) combined with firing their energy dampener at ESD to disable it.
    Heh, it's one thing to knock out a fleet of Starships, but it's something else to knock out Earth Space Dock. Makes you wonder though, if they did have all them weapons (and the ability to take ships and stations offline with them) what defeated the Breen fleet?
    Well, yes and no. Yes, the Romulans can install cloaks on most ships. But, no, it's not that easy. I remember in several episodes they mentioned that the cloak has to be precisely calibrated to match the energy signature of the ship.
    Kirk and crew managed it just fine. ;)
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Kirk and crew managed it just fine.
    Technically true, but that was an older model cloak that didn't work very well.
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  • trhrangerxmltrhrangerxml Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    In DS9 it was part of the speculation because no one knew much about the Breen, one of the theories was they traveled around cloaked. Things of interest mentioned in DS9 about the Breen as rumors and that did not survive into STO, the Breen actually don't need the suites, there home world is actually quite warm (desert like even) and they have a special dislike for the Romulans and even wanted to claim Romulan space for themselves had they won with the Dominion. Made me always think the Breen were that third major Vulcan race mentioned in TNG, in disguise.
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    the cardassians also had a cloak. remember the episode when the rommies and cardies went to attack the founders planet? i distinctly remember seeing decloaking cardy ships...


    also im quite surprised the jemhdar didnt incorporate cloak into their ships. although i suppose that would then make them less "see us, we're badass." style they had....
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  • elandarkskyelandarksky Member Posts: 1,013 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    the cardassians also had a cloak. remember the episode when the rommies and cardies went to attack the founders planet? i distinctly remember seeing decloaking cardy ships...


    also im quite surprised the jemhdar didnt incorporate cloak into their ships. although i suppose that would then make them less "see us, we're badass." style they had....

    pretty sure that technology was kept secret form the governements of cardassia/romulus, to the ill fated fleet of ship in question of the obsidian order, and seeing as all hands minus garek/odo were lost/captured at that battle :p
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  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yes they were meant to have a cloak according to the episode 'Hero Worship' on TNG. They were also meant to have part organic ships according to Tuvok in 'scorpians', and they have disrupter weapons mentioned in generations. no one had ever seena breen and lived to tell about it in ds9, even though dukat and kira nicked a few suits 3 years earlier.

    Of course the writers forgot all that, and gave them no cloaks, seemingly no organic ships (although i guess you could argue the organic stuff is on the inside), and the devs gave them the wrong weapons.

    all in all. their entire race has been a bit of a mess canon wise.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    flash525 wrote: »
    Heh, it's one thing to knock out a fleet of Starships, but it's something else to knock out Earth Space Dock. Makes you wonder though, if they did have all them weapons (and the ability to take ships and stations offline with them) what defeated the Breen fleet?

    HMM, well we never learned how effective the Breen energy dampener was but from what we saw in "Changing Face of Evil" it could basically disable ships of any size including Galaxy-class vessels and Warbirds.
    Not sure how well it would have worked against even bigger ships (if those had existed).
    In the short story, three ships use their combined dampeners on the starbase.

    To find out who stopped the attack...well read the book.;)
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yes they were meant to have a cloak according to the episode 'Hero Worship' on TNG.

    [...]

    Transcript of the scene in question:

    DATA: "Fracture points indicate that the energy burst came from a range of less than three thousand metres."

    PICARD: "But that's a strategy consistent with a cloaked vessel. Romulan. Or Klingon. But we're quite a distance from either of their territories."

    DATA: "The Breen have outposts in this sector. The attack on the Vico is consistent with their battle tactics and their level of technology."

    This makes it pretty clear only the Romulans and Klingons have cloaking tech, otherwise the Breen would have been put into that sentence right next to the other connected to the cloak.
    Strategy and tech means, they have the firepower and they prefer to open up at close range.
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    To find out who stopped the attack...well read the book.;)
    Spoiler it for me, please. :)
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    In DS9 it was part of the speculation because no one knew much about the Breen, one of the theories was they traveled around cloaked. Things of interest mentioned in DS9 about the Breen as rumors and that did not survive into STO, the Breen actually don't need the suites, there home world is actually quite warm (desert like even) and they have a special dislike for the Romulans and even wanted to claim Romulan space for themselves had they won with the Dominion. Made me always think the Breen were that third major Vulcan race mentioned in TNG, in disguise.
    The Debrune? Interesting.

    the statement about their desire to have the Romulan HW is Canon, but we don't really know why they wanted it.

    The idea that their HW isn't cold was in part based on something one of the Vorta said, but he could have been lying for all we know.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yes they were meant to have a cloak according to the episode 'Hero Worship' on TNG. They were also meant to have part organic ships according to Tuvok in 'scorpians', and they have disrupter weapons mentioned in generations. no one had ever seena breen and lived to tell about it in ds9, even though dukat and kira nicked a few suits 3 years earlier.

    Of course the writers forgot all that, and gave them no cloaks, seemingly no organic ships (although i guess you could argue the organic stuff is on the inside), and the devs gave them the wrong weapons.

    all in all. their entire race has been a bit of a mess canon wise.
    There's a catch.... The Breen were mentioned to use disruptors, but not exclusively. most major races in the show were known to have multiple types of weapons technology available to them.

    As for cloaking... I think they are more likely to use a form of passive stealth rather than actual cloaking devices.
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  • asthalothasthaloth Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yes they were meant to have a cloak according to the episode 'Hero Worship' on TNG. They were also meant to have part organic ships according to Tuvok in 'scorpians', and they have disrupter weapons mentioned in generations. no one had ever seena breen and lived to tell about it in ds9, even though dukat and kira nicked a few suits 3 years earlier.

    Of course the writers forgot all that, and gave them no cloaks, seemingly no organic ships (although i guess you could argue the organic stuff is on the inside), and the devs gave them the wrong weapons.

    all in all. their entire race has been a bit of a mess canon wise.


    Organic ships is still possible (just because it doesn't look like a squishy organ doesn't make it inorganic...)

    The disruptors mentioned are ground weapons, in the same way the Jem'hadar ground forces use plasma based Disruptors and not, as commonly stated, polaron weapons.

    Who says they killed a Breen to get them?
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    flash525 wrote: »
    Spoiler it for me, please. :)

    Well, it was actually a combination:

    There was a saboteur who had taken control of the defense satellites, who was taken out by Picard.
    There was also a Starfleet ship (U.S.S. Columbia, unknown class) trapped inside the disabled starbase that was still functioning and cut its way through the space doors.
    And of course the Enterprise arrived in time to help free Columbia by tearing the space doors away with a tractor beam.
    Together they overwhelmed the Breen ships that were pounding earth at that point.
  • trhrangerxmltrhrangerxml Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    Well, it was actually a combination:

    There was a saboteur who had taken control of the defense satellites, who was taken out by Picard.
    There was also a Starfleet ship (U.S.S. Columbia, unknown class) trapped inside the disabled starbase that was still functioning and cut its way through the space doors.
    And of course the Enterprise arrived in time to help free Columbia by tearing the space doors away with a tractor beam.
    Together they overwhelmed the Breen ships that were pounding earth at that point.

    Which book was that?
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