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As a relatively new player, what do i need to accomplish in order to PvP?

dtoxukdtoxuk Member Posts: 14 Arc User
edited January 2013 in PvP Gameplay
No bias, please.

I am level 14 and am interested in eventually PvP'ing. I know PvP is in a bad state right now in STO but i want to know am i wasting my time thinking of PvP as an end-game?

Do i need to deck my ship in ugly Borg gear to be good?
Is PvP balanced in any way?
How many month(s) of grinding gear would i need to do to reach PvP end-game?
Do PvP builds vary a lot from PvE builds?
Does Cryptic have anything in the pipeline to improve PvP?

I play a cruiser/engineering style. Traditionally a 'tank' type in MMO's .

Thanks guys.
Post edited by dtoxuk on

Comments

  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited January 2013
    Question 1: No, Borg gear isn't necessary, although the heals do help when they proc, especially on the usually heal deficient Escorts. And besides, if you right click on the picture of the engine, deflector, or shields, you can disable the visuals so you won't be forced to look at the spikes and general ugliness of the Borg Set

    Question 2: I believe save for a few weapons (and the fact Escorts take way more damage than they should to kill) PVP is getting there on the balanced scale. Be wary of Tricobalt mines though

    Question 3: You can reach level 50 relatively quickly, but you can be competitive in PVP with relatively inexpensive items and reaching only Tier 2 in the Omega and Romulan Rep. MK 12 weapons and items are not needed for PVP. Heck I get by with MK XI Rare Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons on my Saber Retrofit and they only have ACC x2 and were relatively cheap.

    So I would wager maybe about 1-2 weeks to get to tier 2 REP, then depending on how long you play, maybe a couple days for the MK X set you do need.

    Question 4: Usually, any PVP build will do far better than any PVE build, bar none. But it is the person behind the ship that determines that.

    Question 5: From what has been rumored, Season 8 is when they plan to revamp PVP, but until that comes along, we can only wait and see.

    I hope this has helped you, and if I may suggest, join the Organized PVP channel. They can help you on builds and tactics for PVP.
  • dant158#3249 dant158 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    dtoxuk wrote: »
    No bias, please.
    Heh, I'll try, though once you start pvp'ing, if you like it, you'll findit nigh on impossible to avoid this :P
    I am level 14 and am interested in eventually PvP'ing. I know PvP is in a bad state right now in STO but i want to know am i wasting my time thinking of PvP as an end-game?
    Absolutely not. In fact, pvp is the only end game, provided you are after something not mind numbingly, monotonously boring. (See what I mean about the hard to avoid part :P)
    Do i need to deck my ship in ugly Borg gear to be good?
    You can turn off the visuals if you don'y like them. Borg MACO, whatever. You can have all the stats and buffs with none of the sparkle, if you so desire.
    Is PvP balanced in any way?
    Not in it's current state, no.
    How many month(s) of grinding gear would i need to do to reach PvP end-game?
    In days gone by, you could take a notion to try something new in a fresh character slot, and level to cap and have all the gear you'd need to get started in a weekend. Nowadays with all the BS grind for unbalanced passives, and the grind for chances at the best gear I'd imagine it would take signifigantly longer to reach the 'baseline' (That said, the better players in mkX common gear will still steamroll the twits that populate the queues decked out in the best ships, with all the faction gear and purple consoles). Perhaps some of the peeps around here still sticking at this pos can fill you in on the specifics of additional grind added recently (Incidentally, I'd be keen to read the answer to this too, from a maybe getting back into the game at some point point of view).
    Do PvP builds vary a lot from PvE builds?
    Yes, but only because so many pve builds are so TRIBBLE.
    The average pvp build will cream pve. The average pve build is dead inside 5 seconds in pvp.
    Does Cryptic have anything in the pipeline to improve PvP?
    No.
    They never have and likely never will (at least until they figure out how best to monetise it). If any studio personel ever tries to tell you different, link them this: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=233254
    I play a cruiser/engineering style. Traditionally a 'tank' type in MMO's
    Dispel the notion of being a tank. It doesn't exist as a role in sto pvp.
    You can have tank, every ship does to greater or lesser degrees, but to be a tank is nothing in sto pvp.
    You have no mechanism by which to hold aggro from other players, ergo the only purpose served is taking the place of a valuable role in the team.
    The most similar role would likely be healer or bruiser type cruiser builds, predominantly based around team support and light supportive dps/spam clear.
  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    dtoxuk wrote: »
    I am level 14 and am interested in eventually PvP'ing. I know PvP is in a bad state right now in STO but i want to know am i wasting my time thinking of PvP as an end-game?

    Yes. you are. And no, you are not.

    Yes because outside of OPvP PvP is non-existant. There is no PvP. Below lvl 50 there is no PvP at all outside Ker'rat. On vl 50 there are AFKers, PUG/premades stomping you, some more AFKers and some more stomping.

    No, because, as was already mentioned - PvP is the only endgame content that is not tied to mindless, boring space mashin and grind. Not directly, because you will NEED to grind in boring, repetitive PvE to be competitive and/or level a little a gap between you and those that are better at PvP.
    dtoxuk wrote: »
    Do i need to deck my ship in ugly Borg gear to be good?

    No. I was never using any set at all in PvP and was able to have some fun. Besides you may disable the visuals of the set if you get it. So you will still have Borg set, but no fugly visuals.
    dtoxuk wrote: »
    Is PvP balanced in any way?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIrhVo1WA78

    No, it is not balanced at all. And it is even worse if you are starting it. And EVEN worse, when you are starting the game and PvP at the same time.
    dtoxuk wrote: »
    How many month(s) of grinding gear would i need to do to reach PvP end-game?

    You do not need to grind. The stuff you can buy on exchange (weapons, shields etc) is all you will need at start. Just play PvP if you will like it and then grind some PvE in mean time.
    dtoxuk wrote: »
    Do PvP builds vary a lot from PvE builds?

    Yeah. What's good at PvE is usually worthless at PvP. But for some reason - not the other way so PvP builds are quite valid for PvE. Even if PvE builds may be better at certain things.
    Does Cryptic have anything in the pipeline to improve PvP?
    dtoxuk wrote: »
    I play a cruiser/engineering style. Traditionally a 'tank' type in MMO's .

    There is no tank in PvP becasue Cryptic, in it's visdom, introduced a tank without giving it anything to tank with. There are simply no ways to force other players to attack you, so tank is worthless in PvP. In PvP eng/cruiser role is... hmm... healing. Nothing else. I'm starting to wonder if dedicated sci healer is not better, but dunno. Anyway - eng is good ONLY in cruiser. And cruiser with eng is good ONLY at healing.

    BUT - healers are pretty important in PvP, so this is not a bad role to play. Can be pretty funny. Even more when escort you are healing is accused of cheating because no one realised that you are healing it (possible - saw it in Ker'rat).
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Do i need to deck my ship in ugly Borg gear to be good?

    No
    Is PvP balanced in any way?

    No
    How many month(s) of grinding gear would i need to do to reach PvP end-game?

    Days or hours depends how much you play
    Do PvP builds vary a lot from PvE builds?

    some people will say yes
    some will say no
    I say No
    Does Cryptic have anything in the pipeline to improve PvP?
    Gods we hope so

    I play a cruiser/engineering style. Traditionally a 'tank' type in MMO's .

    Thanks guys.

    Ah a "tank"
    thats a myth here basically
    Live long and Prosper
  • hanoverhanover Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    First, you must maintain a demeanor of smug d-baggery at all times. Bonus points for conveying it in some stupid text-speak like a little kid.

    Second, only PvP in an organized group of friends, so that you can all congratulate yourselves for defeating enemies by ganging up on them 5 to 1. Then, when no one will play arena or capture missions with you anymore, you can roll Klingons and become one of those adorable gank squads in Ker'rat.
    Does Arc install a root kit? Ask a Dev today!
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    dtoxuk wrote: »
    No bias, please.

    I am level 14 and am interested in eventually PvP'ing. I know PvP is in a bad state right now in STO but i want to know am i wasting my time thinking of PvP as an end-game?

    Do i need to deck my ship in ugly Borg gear to be good?
    Is PvP balanced in any way?
    How many month(s) of grinding gear would i need to do to reach PvP end-game?
    Do PvP builds vary a lot from PvE builds?
    Does Cryptic have anything in the pipeline to improve PvP?

    I play a cruiser/engineering style. Traditionally a 'tank' type in MMO's .

    Thanks guys.

    unfortunately your thread has turned into troll bate for the incredibly jaded. i'll give it to you strait though

    at low level, be qued all the time. low level pvp is very fun, and if you can get a match to start it will be very low pressure compared to level cap. there isn't nearly the huge yoyo effect of healing and damage dealing, its much more approachable. wile leveling don't spend a fortune on gear. basic stuff is all you need. really, until you can use mkXI and mkXII, dont bother getting anything beter then green quality. the only acceptation is try to get a good cap2 shield when you get a new ship, ether cov or res.

    the best part about sets with visuals is that the visuals can be turned off. the borg set is good for extra heals, a hull for 2 part and shields for 3 part. other then that they arent that great of gear.

    pvp is about 85% balanced. the core is very strong, but all the aditions to the game since launch have had an erosive effect on balance play. since a lot of things you have to pay for, they end up being a bit overpowered by design. carrier spam is a problem, and fills the screen with TRIBBLE. the basic tier 5 ships you get at level cap are outclassed by fleet and lockbox ships. they are still usable, but you have to be skilled to make up for thier stat disadvantage.


    as far as weapons go, get a set of extreamly cheap blue quality mkX and slowly replace it. thats the minimum effective baseline imo. weapons haveing at least 1 acc mod, and a crtH mod, or 2 acc mods are what i recommend.

    the most important gear is your doffs though. they have a profound effect on your ships capability. you will want to do lots of doffing, you will gradually get better ones as you progress. when maxed you can get fleet marks from it too. there is also now the rep system, its a large time and EC sink that gives you passive abilities and access to very nice gear. its worth doing, the passives are very nice. these things are the main grind in game, especially getting the rom and omega marks to inject into the rep system so you can always have projects running. they are sort of needed for you to be competitive, they raise the baseline on whats needed to pvp well.

    as far as pvp builds go, a good pvp build will rofl stomp pve. i dont think there is such a thing as a good pve build. you need to be an experienced pvp'er to make a good build, thats were you learn how to really play. pve doesn't teach you anything.

    a player created thing called the pvp boot camp recently started, and cryptic has taken interest in it, advertising and ading a small incentive to doing it. we keep hearing that eventually pvp will get some love, but we are still waiting for anything to actually happen, other then balance passes and bug fixes that benefit pvp most.

    an engineer currently has next to no use in game outside of a dedicated healer build. thats all they are capable of doing well in. if you entertain any notion of being a damage dealer at all, you will want a tac. a sci captain can arguably be a better healer, they bring to the table several deadly debuffs to a team they are on, in addition to synergising with non weapon damage, healer and support builds.


    check out my pvp help thread, linked in my sig, for builds and helpful information. theres not much for a below level cap player, but once you get to level cap you will see that thats were things really start to mater build wise.
  • dtoxukdtoxuk Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Haha well thank you very much for the comments guys. Much appreciated.

    It sounds as i suspected, but from reading some of Cryptics posts on Season 8 it does sound like they're going to try and bring something more to the PvP table. Lets hope so!

    Live long and prosper d00ds.
  • guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I am going to assume that you are interested in Space PvP. If that is the case:

    1: Identify whether your character has the Accurate and Elusive traits.
    2: If not, create a new character that has those traits, and don't waste any more time on the old one.
    3: Port over costumes (using the Save and Load features in the costume creator), Dilithium (using the Dilithium exchange), and equipment (using your Account Bank) as needed.
    4: Join an active PvP fleet.
    6: Ask for help, information, builds, mechanics, teams you can be part of, etc.
    7: Have fun, kill lots.


    PS:
    In terms of barriers to entry: As a well-specced, well-built, cheaply-equipped level 50, you start out at about 60% of your maximum capacity. The average skilled PvPer in a major-league PvP fleet operates around 90% of their maximum capacity. Your first 2000 Zen buys you up to 70% by getting you a tier 5(and a half) Fleet Ship. Your first 10 to 20 million energy credits gets you up to 75%, by getting you good weapons and consoles. Your first 30 hours of rep grinding (assuming somebody guiding you along an efficient method of doing it and a good STF team) will get you up to about 85%, which is more than sufficient to be an effective, contributing part of any PvP team, although you will not be winning many duels.

    At this point, further progress becomes expensive and time consuming. Another 60 to 80 hours of rep grind will max out your reputation based passives and gear (this process will take several months because of timers, no matter how much time you spend grinding). Dumping more Zen into your character will give you improvements bit by bit. You can funnel over 300 million energy credits into a ship, just on consoles and weapons that people got from random drops.

    TL;DR:
    For about a month worth of light grinding and about 20 dollars worth of Zen, you can PvP at a reasonable level of equality. A top of the line, maxed out, pay to win ship with all the trimmings and options for multiple configurations against changing threats, will set you back hundreds of hours of grinding, hundreds of millions of energy credits, and potentially hundreds of dollars.
  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    hanover2 wrote: »
    First, you must maintain a demeanor of smug d-baggery at all times. Bonus points for conveying it in some stupid text-speak like a little kid.

    Second, only PvP in an organized group of friends, so that you can all congratulate yourselves for defeating enemies by ganging up on them 5 to 1. Then, when no one will play arena or capture missions with you anymore, you can roll Klingons and become one of those adorable gank squads in Ker'rat.

    You sound bitter. The anti-PvP circlejerk is that way -points to Star Trek Online Discussion and General Community Feedback-
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    One thing to consider about guriphu post and gear:

    If you want to be a duelist: spend time mostly in Ker'rat and hunt Klins (or Feds if you preffer) then you do not need P2W things. You can also forget about zens, reputation and whatever else.

    You need two things: free escort and tactical captain plus some common gear (white/green from exchange for few hundred thousands EC). Sorry, but anything else then tac-escort suck if you want to be lone wolf duelist. Sci-escort is also an option, but that's it.

    Now, if you want to fly in Arenas and team - then guriphu is more or less correct.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    guriphu wrote: »
    For about a month worth of light grinding and about 20 dollars worth of Zen, you can PvP at a reasonable level of equality. A top of the line, maxed out, pay to win ship with all the trimmings and options for multiple configurations against changing threats, will set you back hundreds of hours of grinding, hundreds of millions of energy credits, and potentially hundreds of dollars.

    :lol:

    Gear is nice, but it isn't the end be all. It's a team game and teamwork matters more than the latest ****. :lol:

    And lol at the bitter clowns trying to scare this guy off PvP.

    drunk's post pretty much says it all.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    unfortunately your thread has turned into troll bate for the incredibly jaded. i'll give it to you strait though

    at low level, be qued all the time. low level pvp is very fun, and if you can get a match to start it will be very low pressure compared to level cap. there isn't nearly the huge yoyo effect of healing and damage dealing, its much more approachable. wile leveling don't spend a fortune on gear. basic stuff is all you need. really, until you can use mkXI and mkXII, dont bother getting anything beter then green quality. the only acceptation is try to get a good cap2 shield when you get a new ship, ether cov or res.

    the best part about sets with visuals is that the visuals can be turned off. the borg set is good for extra heals, a hull for 2 part and shields for 3 part. other then that they arent that great of gear.

    pvp is about 85% balanced. the core is very strong, but all the aditions to the game since launch have had an erosive effect on balance play. since a lot of things you have to pay for, they end up being a bit overpowered by design. carrier spam is a problem, and fills the screen with TRIBBLE. the basic tier 5 ships you get at level cap are outclassed by fleet and lockbox ships. they are still usable, but you have to be skilled to make up for thier stat disadvantage.


    as far as weapons go, get a set of extreamly cheap blue quality mkX and slowly replace it. thats the minimum effective baseline imo. weapons haveing at least 1 acc mod, and a crtH mod, or 2 acc mods are what i recommend.

    the most important gear is your doffs though. they have a profound effect on your ships capability. you will want to do lots of doffing, you will gradually get better ones as you progress. when maxed you can get fleet marks from it too. there is also now the rep system, its a large time and EC sink that gives you passive abilities and access to very nice gear. its worth doing, the passives are very nice. these things are the main grind in game, especially getting the rom and omega marks to inject into the rep system so you can always have projects running. they are sort of needed for you to be competitive, they raise the baseline on whats needed to pvp well.

    as far as pvp builds go, a good pvp build will rofl stomp pve. i dont think there is such a thing as a good pve build. you need to be an experienced pvp'er to make a good build, thats were you learn how to really play. pve doesn't teach you anything.

    a player created thing called the pvp boot camp recently started, and cryptic has taken interest in it, advertising and ading a small incentive to doing it. we keep hearing that eventually pvp will get some love, but we are still waiting for anything to actually happen, other then balance passes and bug fixes that benefit pvp most.

    an engineer currently has next to no use in game outside of a dedicated healer build. thats all they are capable of doing well in. if you entertain any notion of being a damage dealer at all, you will want a tac. a sci captain can arguably be a better healer, they bring to the table several deadly debuffs to a team they are on, in addition to synergising with non weapon damage, healer and support builds.


    check out my pvp help thread, linked in my sig, for builds and helpful information. theres not much for a below level cap player, but once you get to level cap you will see that thats were things really start to mater build wise.

    Quoted again for truth.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Do not bother with PvP below cmdr (lvl 20-30). Simply PvE untill you get to cmdr and accumulate some EC. Get your favourite ship when you are cmdr, equip it with WHITE stuff (anything else = waste of credits) and go to Ker'rat. There are usually some Klinks in there at this point (they start at 25) and lots of Feds so either way you will have someone to play against. And with Klinks in game there is some chance that queues will start a little faster.

    Of course you can try to challange some Fed players on your level (right click on their ship, choose challange) and 1v1 with them, but from my experience people are not accepting challanges.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    hanover2 wrote: »
    you can roll Klingons and become one of those adorable gank squads in Ker'rat.

    You may wish to see to the Feds then, as last week they where the ones ganking KDF players at the respawn and in the mission in Ker'rat.

    It was great fun trying to break through them for a while but it became boring after a period of time.

    Props, to CrimsonRose though for pointing out in chat that the feds where doing exactly what the KDF gets blaimed for constantly becuase we KDF players where taking it all in stride without complaint.

    We happen to remember that Ker'rat is a PvP mission zone first and foremost over a being a farmzone and expecting to be left alone.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
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  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ^^ what the guy with Officer in charge of the Captain physical well-being :D said.

    The gangink of Feds take NO skil. Zilch, null, zero. No at all. Klinks just wait in cloak until the poor Fed is half dead, with several Borg on top of him and then kill him. And claim honorable victory.

    BTW - if Feds start to do so, or there is some organized Fedball mauling Klinks they usually switch the zone to some lowere level one (claiming victory btw). So - if you want to be good in Ker'rat - do not be a Klink. They will turn you into whinning brat (prequel version of Anakin Skywalker in Star Trek).
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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    And Bitemepwe (former Roach)...please, don't try to compare a casual fed spawncamping with the vicious behavior of you evul Klinguns always lurking in the dark and ready to surprise and gank a lone and inattentive Fed...:D

    Stop being a politician and trying to give two definitions to the same action.

    If the KDF does it its evil and bad but if the feds do it its just a casual event.


    Thats the sort of Blinders I'm used to seeing you feds use when it suits you.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Hehe. You're all evil! :)

    I'm a Jem'Hadar who is just waiting for the introduction of his faction to emerge!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Risks? What risks? The cloaked gang squad against a single Fed?:D

    Same skill it takes to sit at a spawn point waiting for the unsuspecting player to enter the zone.

    Absolutely none.

    Of course my post had nothing to say towards skill only that the KDf are not the only faction doing bad things in Ker'rat.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
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