is still way too strong.
it seems to apply with the first crit as soon as the resist wears off.
it completely distrupts any powers that has a continued apply to it. which happens to be a few science powers and the vesta lance console, and the galaxy x lance.
this single passive has made tractor beams, tachyon beams nearly useless.
known powers it interrupts and puts on their cooldown-
maco heavy grav beam
sub nuc beam
tachyon beams
tractor beams
the vesta lance
the galaxy x lance
all these powers (including a captain power and 2 powers you buy with real money) are effected.
it doesnt matter how high your sensor rating is either, or your defense against sensor related skills. it procs and lasts the full 2 seconds and puts those powers on cooldown if theyre being used when you get proc'd.
the 20% also feels way off, it seems to proc the moment you get a crit when the immunity is not there. (this could use some confirmation)
im tired of science always being on the recieving end
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-
http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Comments
They admitted that science powers were mistakenly nerfed with S5 because the Dev in charge didn't take the new resists that were added into account (still not sure why they needed a nerf to begin with, but they did it anywya). It has been a solid year now and they still haven't undone that mistake. This just compounds the problem because it is severely reducing the ability to be effective with the few Sci powers that still work well.
automatic placates....
at all, for any reason....it just does not make sense....
EXACTLY. spend a damn station power slot if you want that, that would approach balance.
its not just over time powers that are effected. i CANT effectively deal alpha strike damage to anyone with this damn passive. even worse when they have a KHG shiled too. loosing 20% at least of my alpha damage is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE when the damn placate happens in the middle of an attack. and they have the closest thing to tractor beam immunity ever too. don't even bother.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
If they don't change it, it's just utterly pointless to even bother slotting a tractor for use on anyone using the passive. It's going to get worse the more people get to that tier.
And Tractor beams? Never bothered with them because of two APO...
Here we go with the whining about nerfs. Placating away expensive powers randomly is just a brilliant design decision.
No 12 seconds is not enough. 12 seconds of immunity is a joke when it can put an expensive 30 to 45 second cooldown power immediately into cooldown.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
well i do blame the pvp'ers on this. along time ago i made a post about the klink placate on sheilds. but yeah i got jumped on by everyone in this thred about it. oh its you just suck bla bla bla its annoying at best. yeah well now look. you guys are ******** about t4 placate and now the klink sheilds as well. so for calling me a nub about placate a long time ago, look how its come now. t4 rep with sheilds lmao what ever.
side note, this wasent directed at you snoge. just my rant got hyped after reading your post so fast quote. but yeah lest they did tone down the placate on sheilds along time ago but its still bs. its so stupid how the poeple that shot me down about tractors and placate and both combined now come to fourms looking to get it nerfed. and its just like i said, if they put it on a sheild i bet it will come as a passive. and that was a half joke back then. cant believe they actually did it lol.
On a side note, I'd still rather have seen Feds get a 5% shield resist while Klinks would get 5-10% defense to compliment the two factions varied play styles. (For MACO and KHG respectively)
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
You all know that word. Regardless of what it may or may not interupt it is a nonsensical ability. Just from the word go, right out the gate, as soon as an idea forms and that idea says in whole or in part:
"I'm going to beat the snot out of you and you're going to sit there and take it."
As a game designer you need to know that that won't work. This isn't something way out there or esoteric. This is a common value in game design. There's no debate here. Get your heads out of the sand and look around. See how many offensive placates exists in competitive MMO's and see how they are handled. Oh hell. You won't look. I'll just tell you.
Generally they are on command. Everyone has one. And they are called various things, but interupt is one of them. Because they stop people from using a long cast ability. But they have a long cooldown. Generally longer than MOST of an opposing players offensive cooldowns. So you (both) have the ability to interupt ONE long cast ability every few minutes. Is that bad? No its an important part of game play. Should it become a passive ability that you can inflict on someone simply by critting them?
Yah...not so much.
I hope my charm really came through in this post. I've been working on my 'people skills'.
Spot on, 10/10, would read again.
+1
/10char
Disable reputation abilities in PvP until a PvP specific reputation with properly designed abilities that will work well in PvP is released to be used only in PvP.
Snarky Answer? (sarcasm btw)
Time your tractor or alpha strike to go off after the enemy blows his passive placate and you get immunity ya nubs :eek:. L2P
Reality?
They have no clue what they are doing at this point. The entire system is designed around OP being the new balance and that only works until OP becomes dangerously stupid broken. It relies upon players not being very good at min/maxing and remaining ignorant of the underlying issues. And if you don't think most players are bad at min/max just join an Estf pug.
*edit add-on*
In the end though until someone somewhere realizes that you cannot have good gameplay that uses the same exact mechanics for PvP and PvE these issues will continue to be a problem. They are two different types of gameplay. I challenge anyone to show me an mmo system that is well balanced, fun to play, and rewarding in both a PvE and PvP environment. And by that I mean they use the same exact system/mechanics and players use the same exact builds/gear/powers in both.
Not to defend the KHG placate, but there's a huge difference between the two. Against the KHG the attacker has the option of not shooting and just spamming Sci abilities the OP mentions including TBing a target and debuffing it further. Then switching to another target while the TB remains up and allies attack the debuffed target. I had found this to be more of an annoyance than anything.
Now you have builds w/~20% CritH chance which basically means all they need to do is attack you and you're going to get placated. They now have greater control over who gets placated when. So, you can't count on using TB to get a positional advantage even if you aren't firing. This hurts not just offensive output, but defensive positioning.
The KDF Vet ship kept me around for awhile, but it's getting harder and harder to log on anymore. (FYI, can't remember the last time I used KHG shields, I prefer the Omega set).
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
+1 to remove this passive completely
Edit:
Disabling reputation in PvP would make those abilties useless though, who cares if the borg get placated for 2secs its not going to really do anything at all, Cryptic designed it to be used in PvP, it needs to be fixed since it is way to OP. Just a random idea, maybe a hull buff for a passive it would be useful against the borgs torps and wouldn't be bad in PvP as long as it was resonable (a few thousand HP).
Edit 2:
Not that related but what about having Tachyon beam lower the targets shield resist by means of a debuff and the amount scales with aux power, charged particle burst could also do something like this (different duration, different amount etc, obviously lower though since it affects multiple targets, it would still be useful since you can trick the other team into healing someone and jump on someone else, the debuff could be cleared by science or eng team) to all targets within a certain range.
And Cryptic already has certain abilties that are different in PvP to PvE (there is a ground weapon that has a different placate time against human targets than NPCs), and atm saying that there should be equal amount power in PvP and PvE is not 'working' very well since I and many others change weapons, boffs etc depending on PvP and PvE (well anyone that cares about maximum performance in the type of battle they are participating in does (for example tractor beam in PvP is awesome (stops targets, lowers defence) but in PvE putting a second hazard emitters there is much more benefical (clears borg/plasma debuffs more often, recovery for torps easier etc).
Provided it doesn't push people into negative resists and removes a % of their current resist instead of a flat amount (ie reduce enemy shield resist by 50%) that is a pure gold idea.
Is switching from expensive spike powers to less costly maintaned damage even an option when you consider the ridiculous healing present in PvP?
I only ask because the passives are only going to get worse as more and more are introduced. I don't imagine they will get nerfed to any considerable degree since they do involve a bit of grinding and why upset most of the playerbase?
Who knows with luck the metagame may be able to shift to a less spike focused game if they reduce healing but improve NPC AI and we can all play in a nicely balanced less spikey/less uber heal world..... yeah, yeah, pie in the sky and all that.
Yes it would need to be kept positive so teams don't add 5 versions of the same debuff to the same target to make them glass, it would be ideal if further instances of the debuff on the same target deminshed for every extra copy added aswell. I had in mind that it would take a certain percentage of shield resist (so basically a counter to Emergency Power to Shields and similear) that scaled with aux power if that is what you meant (pretty sure it is).
or they could make it like target subsystems power drain- only the highest applies.
so if several hit the target at different numbers, only the best would apply, if theyre all the same only one would apply.
Do you even Science Bro?
well you dont need to shoot at me. just tb me and watch me placate you with fed klink sheilds. its super bs and it was back then as well. with double placate i can tank even better now against premades. i ranted this when the new stf sets came out. was jumped on by many "top" pvp'ers. but this is not the only op setup. im rolling a new pvp tact. this time i have space passives. (jem is wasted on my main tact) i want to try the sheild passives with full mk12 borg set. the hit points of mk12 borg sheild comes out to mk12 maco sheild but with awesome regen added by the passive. i bet it will tank even better then standed maco.
The problem is that they work fine in PVE. And that is how the development of new powers get passed. It works in PVE? Good. Then after weeks to months to sometimes years of complaining, that the power works in bad ways in PVP, does it get changed.
This is not a good way to design powers.
Now I'm not saying that PVP should be the only way to look at powers, skills, and so on. Just that it hurts more then it helps when you don't keep PVP in mind and make sure that the power is balanced well enough for both PVE and PVP.
A placate skill that placates when ever you Crit? And it can't be broken? Not good.
Perhaps changing it from a Passive to an Activation based power might help resolve the situation. Then it can be Subnuced off, and it will only last as long as it's duration. Say it lasts 30 seconds with a 2 minute cool down. Sure it's still going to be annoying, but at least it will be better balanced with PVP in mind.
For even more balance, make it a "Toggle" power that can be turned off with a stun instead.
And if that isn't the desire of the way the ability is supposed to work, then increase the duration of the resistance, and/or reduce the duration of the Placate.
Just my thoughts on both it and other things in general.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
i think thats a great idea! also consider that people like to "activate" things themselves because it makes them feel like theyre doing something.
so.. bring on the more clicky!
Do you even Science Bro?
Make it 45 seconds or so.
The placate activates when YOU as the owner of the passive, critical hits something or someone. On a cannon rapid fire, you're most likely going to be placating your current target. At best, that target will be interrupted from doing the aforementioned abilities. Key word, the target that has been crit will be placated.
However, if the owner of the passive uses an AOE delivery of their criticals, then it is possible that the entire team will be placated. But, the player has pretty much sacrificed so much directed DPS that their damage will only be effective in destroying anything small or low in HP.
To conclude, if anyone does use the AOE tactic with the T4, they really aren't a threat... They're just annoying at best...
I personally do not have the passive employed on any of my ships currently, and I am debating if I even should.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
i dont think was mentioned in any of the issues....
Do you even Science Bro?
The odds of a TB damage tic triggering the KHG shield placate is very low. It really isn't the same, and again I'm not defending it just pointing out it's not apples to apples to compared the CritH placate w/the the Shield's placate. TB and other Sci abilities can be applied much more easily to a target w/KHG than a target shooting you w/the rep system proc.
Also, fyi the original passive was a 10% defense boost it was than changed to the placate -ACC proc, since 30% potential defense boost w/Captain 2 part Aegis and KHG shields was seen as too much. I never did get why people didn't have issue w/the -ACC since imo it's more powerful than a brief placate.
The low regen w/the poor shield mods many of the KDF ships have makes this shield trash for many setups compared to other options. Imo, it'll be better on Fed ships w/the better shield mods and generally more team repairs available.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter