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So is the Romulan torpedo gonna be the next 'thing'?

mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited January 2013 in PvP Gameplay
Since the combo of Romulan torp, Omega torp or Ferengi missile, and torp DOFFs is pretty much out in the open, is that gonna become the next 'thing'?

By that I mean, we've recently gone through the 'song and dance' number of tric mines, broken Omega shield passive, and a couple other things that pretty much people whined and moaned about, blaming PvPers, etc etc, but it got fixed (or will be fixed), regardless.

So is this combo going to become that? I feel it might be too early to tell, because it isn't wide spread. Things in PvP don't generally become a problem until they start getting fielded in bulk.

Tric mines with the mine revamp were made powerful, but it's not like it happened over night to get how bad it is. I'm not saying they weren't a problem even then, but it's only over time with more and more people fielding them, to the point of entire teams doing it sometimes. SNB DOFFs for the longest time, while powerful and again a problem, were only made obvious after they became much, MUCH cheaper and began to be used again, in bulk.

I'm a bit on the fence, for that very reason. There's not enough people running this out and about yet to really decide. However, the sheer number of torpedoes that can be launched is a bit insane, just overwhelming any amount of clenses and general heals. At least they are targettable, but you can only shoot so many at once though as well.

So there's a lot of points and counter-points I'm already thinking of, so what do you all think? Are they just little more than a burn-build in PvE, or do you all think that maybe once people start decking their ships out and minmaxing it, it could be more serious?
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Post edited by mimey2 on

Comments

  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I think most people don't even know about the latest new hotness (broken or otherwise) until they either get told or read threads like these and go and do it in order to take advantage.

    Its generally why i never spread what i get told, like those new embassy DoF---- never mind, nothing to see here!
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    @Aquitaine985
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  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Why was this moved? This thread would get better feedback in the PvP gameplay subforum.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The Romulan Hyper Plasma Torpedo Launcher has too simple of a counter to really make it super effective anywhere outside of PvE. You can nullify most of it's damage by simply hitting a HE1. The rest is all just kinetic damage, and low amounts at that. The only real danger I see from this weapon in PvP is the lag it will generate and the fact it distracts weapons in BFAW.

    Other than that, it's simply too weak on its own to be a true threat.

    However I can see this combining with other rather nasty abilities to become a problem, but again, it's too easily countered by HE of any level.

    So I only see this being viable as a burn build in PvE, like you originally stated.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Why was this moved? You would get better feedback in the PvP gameplay subforum.

    I'm wondering that exact same thing. I put it in the PvP area because it was basically about PvP anyways, and it was asking the question at other PvPers. So it was entirely PvP-related, because I was honestly curious if people felt this plasma torp thing was gonna be a problem in PvP, and be the next 'thing' we'd have to deal with.

    The unfortunate part is that they never ever undue a thread move or merge, so I'm kinda stuck with this, at least without making a new thread which asks them NOT to move it.

    Aquitaine, I've seen several threads on this in the forum these past few days, and the numbers in the game in PvE stuff (maybe it's just coincidental that I have saw a lot of it), that I've seen doing most or the entire combo. So it's only a matter of time until it bleeds into PvP more readily, again, hence the whole point of this thread.

    No matter what it is, people will always find out in this game, just a matter of time.

    So...'that' has been discovered by more folks too, eh? I'm surprised 'that' stayed a secret so long, even if you did just basically said what 'that' is.

    But again, that's my point. Right now we have 'that', and the Romulan torpedo? 'That' might be getting fixed soon of course, but what about the torpedo combo, how will that affect PvP? The question still stands on what people might think.

    Even so, in the future, once 'that' is fixed, and once the Romulan torpedo gets changed (if at all), tric mines are altered, etc, there will be something else. It's only a matter of time.



    Mods or devs, can this please be moved back to the PvP area? I meant it in a more PvP way, not just a 'build' way, because I'm wondering what people do honestly think might happen in a PvP scenario.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    It appears I was mistaken, thank you for moving it back.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I think I was lucky. I own a D'Kora and stumbled upon it out of sheer chance.

    I was giddy with the special FX of so many torps and rockets firing off to be honest.

    It was like a really dizzy Fourth of July in space. :)
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    its the omega torp thats good. the romulan torp has the same problem plasma torps always have, slow and easy to kill. i stuck it aft so as soon as i pass someone they get hit by it, and have the durable omega torp up front.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I tried both Romulan and Omega torps with my tac and 3 purple doffs and wasn't impressed with either, went back to a quantum with all crit mods on it and it does way better. I see how these torps could be good in pve for a non-tac or someone who doesn't have lots of ranks in projectile weapon specilization, so the burns could make up for the weaker and less crits they get. I think a tac with max specilization can just blow the targets up faster before the dots really help much. I seen some engs in cruisers do good with the plasma torps though.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sorry double post, internet dced and posted this again for some reason.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    To add to my post: Not only is it highly effective on NPCs, but it's also incredibly amusing. I believe someone in PvP bootcamp described it as the "congo line of plasma torps". My friends in my fleet describe it as the "plasma stream of ***"". That kinda adds to it IMO XD.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    There are two really fun things to with both the Hyper and Omega in PvE that are rather pointless in PvP...

    1) Triple THY. Triple THY? WTF? Yes, if you have two THY abilities - then you can do the following: THY #1, wait 15 seconds, THY #2, wait until the timer for THY #1 is almost gone, fire the Hyper, fire the Omega, THY #1 will be near ready again, so THY #1 and fire the Hyper again. You'll have three Heavy Plasma followed by a Plasma Bolt followed by another three Heavy. (Now that's a plasma conga line...)

    2) Triple TS. Triple TS? WTF? Yes, if you have two TS abilities - then you can do the following if you have several targets: TS #1, wait 15 seconds, TS #2, wait until the timer for TS #1 is almost gone, fire the Hyper, fire the Omega, TS #1 will be near ready again, so TS #1 and fire the Hyper again. It's insanely beautiful to see not only all those Plasma torps (3 per target) flying across the screen - but also the scatter of all the Omegas heading toward each target - with another set of Plasma torps heading out. It's just...beautiful.

    ...I say they're pointless in PvP, because with all the spam generally being dropped out there - most of it will never reach the target. There's also the rather depressing issue that often combat is fought so close or there are other targetables that are close, that you're going to get hit by the AoE splash of your torps and start to burn.

    It's like the joke about killing yourself with Tric Torps - yep, with both the Hyper and Omega - you can set yourself on fire (and odds are, that's when you'll get the chain crit DoT - lol).

    Oh well, eh? Still though - personally, I prefer the Hyper up front and the Omega in the rear. Here, let me explain why:

    First, the Omega - I'm not sure what's up with this torp - maybe I'm imagining it, but either the thing moves or it just sits there. Okay, it doesn't sit there - but it moves about as fast as a Bortas turns. Sometimes though, it will actually move with gusto - more often than not though - you'll pass it at quarter impulse in a snoozer, because it's moving so slow. A THY Omega makes a great present to leave somebody as you pass by...it's so slow, you should be outside of the AoE splash when it hits.

    Second, the Hyper - you know, some might consider it an Arc Exploit. What? Well, surely you've noticed that only the first torpedo actually needs to be fired when the target is in the appropriate arc. The additional two torps will just fire - regardless of the arc. So you can "fire" the torp when the target's in your front 90, the second torp will fire when they're left of you, and the third torp will fire when they're aft of you. Heck, depending on how fast you're moving, maybe only the first fires "fore" while the next two fire aft.

    Neither the Hyper nor Omega have impressed me with their speed - if anything, they often end up acting as chaff - just picking up random spam that might have hit you, but hits them instead. A TS Omega though - Hell, that seems to do more damage than a THY Hyper. I should parse that, rather than just making some random observation. Pick a NPC target - THY Hyper vs. TS Omega.

    Speaking of odd mechanics and perhaps faulty observations, try this with the Omega. Fire a THY Omega not at the target, but at a target near it. Tell me if it doesn't look like the "target" takes more splash damage from being caught in the AoE from the Omega hitting the other target that it would have had the Omega hit the "target" itself...

    ...and one final thing for the Omega (giggles included) - who else has fired off a THY Omega, then hit it with AtS, HE, TSS, ES, APD, TT...? It moves so slow, you can load it up with buffs (whether they affect it or not, it's something fun to do while waiting the days for it to get to the target)...

    ...just my 2 EC of rambling on the matter.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013

    ...and one final thing for the Omega (giggles included) - who else has fired off a THY Omega, then hit it with AtS, HE, TSS, ES, APD, TT...? It moves so slow, you can load it up with buffs (whether they affect it or not, it's something fun to do while waiting the days for it to get to the target)...

    ...just my 2 EC of rambling on the matter.

    makes me wonder if you can buff the torps damage on its way to the target- ie tac team.

    crew- "YOU WANT ME TO BEAM WHERE!?"
    captain- "yes, the torpedo."
    crew- "are you insane captain!?"
    captain- "get going now!"
    crew- "ok...."
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
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    Do you even Science Bro?
  • edited January 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • eisenw0lfeisenw0lf Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    makes me wonder if you can buff the torps damage on its way to the target- ie tac team.

    crew- "YOU WANT ME TO BEAM WHERE!?"
    captain- "yes, the torpedo."
    crew- "are you insane captain!?"
    captain- "get going now!"
    crew- "ok...."

    Beaming Tactical Teams into a plasma torpedo brings this whole Redshirt thing going on in Star Trek to an all new level :eek:

    I'm currently using the Hyper Torpedo and I must say it's a very effective weapon against slow or non-moving targets in PvE as it can easiliy stack multiple plasma fires in short order (and the set bonus gives me a small damage boost to my romulan plasma weapons). But I honestly doubt this will ever be a viable weapon in PvP because you'll only score hits at point blank range (and end up burning your own ship, too). NPC's don't use HE, that's the only reason this torpedo is effective in PvE.
  • andoriansrusandoriansrus Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ok while I see the points that are being made here keep this in mind...

    these rep system romulan plasma beams and cannons ALSO get a disruptor proc for stripping hull resists, then there are the threat scaling consoles which can add more plasma damage and more chances for a plasma fire proc, then we can look at things like the reputation system passives like the placate that comes at tier 4 Romulan and the Omega Graviton thing at tier 4 Omega..... this could in theory be a fairly nasty burn through build..... but only time will tell... I have been tinkering with it on a vesta and it seems quite viable since I already de-buff the hell out of someone anyway.....
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  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Honestly, its a great PVE build.

    PVP wise, anthing that does are of effect will make this torpedo build suck like a rainbow beam escort.


    So this is a powerful thing in PVE, but in PVP any person with gravity well, a spread volley, a torpedo spread or a beam fire at will is basically immune to it.

    Basically if you allow yourself to be hit by all these low speed , highly visible green balls...then you deserve the damage.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I tried it on my B'rel torp boat in PvP, and ended up killing myself as often as I scored a good hit against the enemy.
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  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited January 2013
    ...and one final thing for the Omega (giggles included) - who else has fired off a THY Omega, then hit it with AtS, HE, TSS, ES, APD, TT...? It moves so slow, you can load it up with buffs (whether they affect it or not, it's something fun to do while waiting the days for it to get to the target)...
    I hit my Bio-Neural Warhead with Tactical Team to give the shields a bit more staying power.
  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I tested the Hyper-plasma torp in a 1-1 private match with a fleet mate also using the same weapon. Generally he easily outran the plasma torps, and every single torp that he shot at me disappeared within seconds of launching due to CSV. The only way I could make the hyper-plasma torps hit was by using tractor beams or target-subsystem-engines, but once they connected, I obliterated my opponent in seconds.

    Conclusion: like everyone else has concluded, hyper-plasma torps are good in PVE, but horrible in PVP in their present form.

    EDIT: I also tested out the Omega Plasma Torpedo Launcher. It fared better than the Romulan launcher since its torps were fast moving, indestructible, could fire in rapid succession, and always initiate plasma fires. They don't hit very hard until you drop a shield facing.
  • rudiefix1rudiefix1 Member Posts: 420
    edited January 2013
    Romulan plasma torp (HY) can be good in pvp when equiped in the back and use it directly after you passed your EWP'd enemy. That way, the poor guy has only little time to react. It is more likely that his priority and attention is to get out of the plasma cloud
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  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The Omega torp is overperforming hilariously with the current rommie bug/exploit/enjoy!/feature (or B.E.E.F. for short). The reload is something we're going to have to watch in order to see what speeds it up because clearly there are at least 2 ways to get it to hiccup into launching 2 or 3 times the correct number. "4 torps in the clip and 1 in the hole, Nate Dogg is about to make some bodies go cold." It's like Nate Dogg jammed 2 or 3 in in the hole instead. Unless 6 plasma dot stacks from a single TS3 is intended? "Now they popping HE it's a tad bit late, Nate Dogg and Warren G had to regulate."*

    We need to make sure we're not seeing this particular gem influencing the balance discussion on these weapons. IMO that reload should not be flagged for a speed increase by anything at first until we settle in and it goes into widespread use, then maybe flag it so torp doffs affect it, then give that some time and see if we squeal about it.

    I know people have called for a torp revamp based on the reload idea, and I support a "magazine based" torpedo economy if they could get it right.

    Also, it's going to complicate the conversation because the first one we got comes with a burn that is radically impacted by rof and the target's ability to clear it. So the idea of a magazine based quantum or tranny is, IMO, going to perform in a drastically different fashion.

    *All use of the intellectual property of 213 is without permission and poorly done. Forgive me Nate Dogg. /target Nathaniel Hale.
    _______________
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  • shar487ashar487a Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    redricky wrote: »
    The Omega torp is overperforming hilariously with the current rommie bug/exploit/enjoy!/feature (or B.E.E.F. for short). The reload is something we're going to have to watch in order to see what speeds it up because clearly there are at least 2 ways to get it to hiccup into launching 2 or 3 times the correct number. "4 torps in the clip and 1 in the hole, Nate Dogg is about to make some bodies go cold." It's like Nate Dogg jammed 2 or 3 in in the hole instead. Unless 6 plasma dot stacks from a single TS3 is intended? "Now they popping HE it's a tad bit late, Nate Dogg and Warren G had to regulate."*

    We need to make sure we're not seeing this particular gem influencing the balance discussion on these weapons. IMO that reload should not be flagged for a speed increase by anything at first until we settle in and it goes into widespread use, then maybe flag it so torp doffs affect it, then give that some time and see if we squeal about it.

    I know people have called for a torp revamp based on the reload idea, and I support a "magazine based" torpedo economy if they could get it right.

    Also, it's going to complicate the conversation because the first one we got comes with a burn that is radically impacted by rof and the target's ability to clear it. So the idea of a magazine based quantum or tranny is, IMO, going to perform in a drastically different fashion.

    *All use of the intellectual property of 213 is without permission and poorly done. Forgive me Nate Dogg. /target Nathaniel Hale.


    I discovered the above last week. I'm not sure if I should be disclosing the full details here, but basically it is working as intended when PWO's are factored in vs. the 1-shot per sec attack speed of the Omega Launcher. I was consistently getting 9+ plasma torps vs. 1 target swarm grouped together by gravity well. :D


    The above principle follows my old Diablo2 "proc-azon" build made well over 10 years ago lol.
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