I cannot articulate how much fun more Trek-ish full 360 motion with roll would be. Now before you say, You would throw up if you flew a defiant! Well true, you probably are right BUT CONSIDER THIS ; a kind of "B" mode for space which chnages the way you control your space flight. Thanks for reading!
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
This has been asked for oh-so-many-times, I've lost count.
It has been unequivocally said by the Dev's, this will not happen.
The game was designed precisely in this manner and They have no plans to change it.
The only thing DStahl has said different, is that the upper limit of the angle of attack on the Z-axis MIGHT be increased a bit more.
That was quite a while ago though.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
This isn't going to happen, and honestly, I can see why. Flightsims require a very specific set of spacial awareness and planning that not everyone possess. We live on a planet with very clear definitions of up and down. It is so hard for people to get rid of that feeling, that there are even very clear definitions of up and down in fiction, even when it makes no logical sense.
TL;DR Play Decent. You will learn what I mean very quickly.
This isn't going to happen, and honestly, I can see why. Flightsims require a very specific set of spacial awareness and planning that not everyone possess. We live on a planet with very clear definitions of up and down. It is so hard for people to get rid of that feeling, that there are even very clear definitions of up and down in fiction, even when it makes no logical sense.
TL;DR Play Decent. You will learn what I mean very quickly.
This doesn't make any sense. What people are asking for is the ability to move completely vertically on the Z axis -- the camera would remain quite the same as it does now.
WoW's flying mounts allow freedom of Z-axis movements. You can point your mount up, or just hit the space bar/x to move up and down, and nobody's vomited all over their monitor from it.
People aren't complete morons, they can get a handle on Z-axis movement.
This doesn't make any sense. What people are asking for is the ability to move completely vertically on the Z axis -- the camera would remain quite the same as it does now.
WoW's flying mounts allow freedom of Z-axis movements. You can point your mount up, or just hit the space bar/x to move up and down, and nobody's vomited all over their monitor from it.
People aren't complete morons, they can get a handle on Z-axis movement.
It's not that people are morons, it's that we think laterally due to living in a gravity filled environment. What jumpingjs is asking for is flightsim controls, and yes, 360 degree movement games like Desent, have made people throw up. I've seen it happen. :P
It's not a horrible idea, but it's just not practical.
The main problem in all sci-fi is applying up/down that we (except some few fighter pilots) experience everyday of our entire life.
In space there is no up/down - but it is almost always portrayed that was in movies/shows as it would be too confusing to most people.
I bet that most people don't know that the space shuttle spent most of its orbit with the "top" side pointed toward the earth - ie upside down - and only rolls over completely when making re-entry.
The only thing DStahl has said different, is that the upper limit of the angle of attack on the Z-axis MIGHT be increased a bit more.
That was quite a while ago though.
Actually the devs have never brought forth that fix they claimed in the patch notes from Season 3 a full two years ago. They said they were increasing it from 45 to 60 degrees, but I proved this was not the case over a year ago. I think asking them to deliver what's already in the patch notes is a good start.
The main problem in all sci-fi is applying up/down that we (except some few fighter pilots) experience everyday of our entire life.
In space there is no up/down - but it is almost always portrayed that was in movies/shows as it would be too confusing to most people.
I bet that most people don't know that the space shuttle spent most of its orbit with the "top" side pointed toward the earth - ie upside down - and only rolls over completely when making re-entry.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
The added the 360 flight ability into BSGO and everyone hated it. You get stuck upside down or backwards, Yery hard to PVP dogfight when you cant get your horison line set and your flipped around backwards. its very easy to get disorientated
I don't want a full 360-degree pitch movement, but 180- would be pretty awesome. Even 178-, to give a degree restriction on each side. It's super-annoying to have to do a big spiral to get to something that is outside of the restricted angles - and it isn't just Foundry missions that do this; some of the Cryptic missions do this too:
-The first Fehl'kri mission has one of the anomalies right on top of another.
-At least one of the sector patrols has mobs at different places on the z-axis, with close ones more than 45-degrees off the x-y plane.
-One of the Cardassian patrols has this; my ship is at maximum depression, with the asteroid belt at only a slightly smaller angle; and as we know, the mobs like to hid in the asteroids, sometimes above, but sometimes below, and this gives us no real room to do anything besides charge right at them.
The added the 360 flight ability into BSGO and everyone hated it. You get stuck upside down or backwards, Yery hard to PVP dogfight when you cant get your horison line set and your flipped around backwards. its very easy to get disorientated
This is dumb. Space combat games have had full movement for years, from X-Wing all the way to Freelancer and beyond. People played all those games with only a minimum of problems. There's no horizon in space, so there's no need to align with it. If there is a proper up-down orientation in the game, there should be some auto-roll-correct function (if not, that's bad game design; even STO does this sorta with the ship customizer).
The actual reason given by Cryptic, was that a large percentage of the space battles seen in Trek have always been pretty much face to face and right-side up...
At the time the game was created, it was felt that this orientation was the most canon way to do it.
As a speculation, it most likely cut several months of development time off the final product by doing it this way...
They were on a very tight time table for completion.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
There is no reason at all why they couldn't remove the pitch limit without any major problems, it wouldn't be disorienting since you aren't "in the cockpit" and even if you invert the ship it will auto right itself anyway the minute you release the controls, as it is right now you have to waste a lot of maneuvering just to get at a target that is below or above you and doesn't seem bound by the same rules you are in the directions it can move.
I realize, it's Star Trek, North pole is up, South pole is down and when you orbit a planet you do it perpendicular to the surface when you are parallel to the equator, but still it's space.
A Defiant being able to do a barrel roll reversal flying straight up and flipping over to end up flying in the opposite direction is exactly how a Defiant is supposed to be able to fly.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I personally would like to be able to angle the ship at a steeper angle when going up/down. This is for two reasons: One, it helps with multi-level areas that have enemies on more than one relative 'plane'. Two, it will keep players from resorting to the cheap 'spiral' maneuver that keeps them out of people's firing arcs in PvP. Even in a BoP, I have trouble keeping up with people who hit evasive or Omega and have experience with this cheap trick of the game mechanics. Enabling a steeper angle of climb/dive would make it much harder to pull this off.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
This isn't going to happen, and honestly, I can see why. Flightsims require a very specific set of spacial awareness and planning that not everyone possess. We live on a planet with very clear definitions of up and down. It is so hard for people to get rid of that feeling, that there are even very clear definitions of up and down in fiction, even when it makes no logical sense.
TL;DR Play Decent. You will learn what I mean very quickly.
Yet do imagine for a moment Star Trek Online with combat as deep and cool as the one in Nexus: The Jupiter Incident.
I will leave a minute of silence for what could have been.
As a small aside I do want to add space combat and dogfight games like Freespace, Starlancer, etc, have been doing this since the genre does exist and no one was hurt other than by the really good players' enormous ego.
~snip We live on a planet with very clear definitions of up and down. It is so hard for people to get rid of that feeling, that there are even very clear definitions of up and down in fiction, even when it makes no logical sense. .
This is IMO a silly argument...
I've played a ton of games with no axis-restriction, and while granted, it takes about 10 mins to get used to, it really isn't that hard.
If you can't figure out 3D movement, then how are you smart enough to look up and down?
The argument is just not valid on any level if you ask me...
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I dunno about you but most Sci Fi games don't allow ships larger then Frigates to do any big maneuvers taking X3 - Terran Conflict as a example you could barrel roll a Destroyer but due to the limited navigation thrusters it just would take to long to do it and would be pointless other then Defiant I haven't really seen any ship on Star Trek doing any crazy maneuvers and this is a ship who's mere size was often up for debate since they could never seem to decide what size the ship was ... it was different from episode to episode
even the Sovereign does not do any big maneuvers the only time the Sovereign flipped upside down almost was in Insurrection and that was because it was hit by the shockwave of the gass exploding and as i recall they took quite a bit of damage from it and a few people was thrown around
To everyone who is saying you would get disorintated, in my first Post I specified a "B Mode" That means if you dont want 360 then you don have to have it. Also on the 2009 film , there was some rolls and a go up. I am more wanting the ability to go 360 and roll more than anytin and have a b mode so if people dont want it ... Fine.
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
no just stupid just because you want it don't make it fit the theme of the setting I have never seen ships in star trek do the maneuvers a true 360 direction would allow so it's not canon and it has no place in STO
To everyone who is saying you would get disorintated, in my first Post I specified a "B Mode" That means if you dont want 360 then you don have to have it. Also on the 2009 film , there was some rolls and a go up. I am more wanting the ability to go 360 and roll more than anytin and have a b mode so if people dont want it ... Fine!
no just stupid just because you want it don't make it fit the theme of the setting I have never seen ships in star trek do the maneuvers a true 360 direction would allow so it's not canon and it has no place in STO
How is it stupid. STO is not very cannon sometimes you know. Bu 360 does not mean you have ti 360 it just means that space flight would be more accurate, beacuse there is no up or down, but currently there is. In star trek there appears to be no up or down to make oit easy for you.
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
Comments
It has been unequivocally said by the Dev's, this will not happen.
The game was designed precisely in this manner and They have no plans to change it.
The only thing DStahl has said different, is that the upper limit of the angle of attack on the Z-axis MIGHT be increased a bit more.
That was quite a while ago though.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
TL;DR Play Decent. You will learn what I mean very quickly.
This however, would be welcome.
This doesn't make any sense. What people are asking for is the ability to move completely vertically on the Z axis -- the camera would remain quite the same as it does now.
WoW's flying mounts allow freedom of Z-axis movements. You can point your mount up, or just hit the space bar/x to move up and down, and nobody's vomited all over their monitor from it.
People aren't complete morons, they can get a handle on Z-axis movement.
It's not that people are morons, it's that we think laterally due to living in a gravity filled environment. What jumpingjs is asking for is flightsim controls, and yes, 360 degree movement games like Desent, have made people throw up. I've seen it happen. :P
It's not a horrible idea, but it's just not practical.
As an old EVE Online player I first found STO space battle to be very limited, but now I've got used to it and it's not all that bad I think.
Of course the ultimate would be if we could fly on any axis and have huge fleetbattles etc, but that is up to mr. Stahl and co. I guess.
In space there is no up/down - but it is almost always portrayed that was in movies/shows as it would be too confusing to most people.
I bet that most people don't know that the space shuttle spent most of its orbit with the "top" side pointed toward the earth - ie upside down - and only rolls over completely when making re-entry.
Actually the devs have never brought forth that fix they claimed in the patch notes from Season 3 a full two years ago. They said they were increasing it from 45 to 60 degrees, but I proved this was not the case over a year ago. I think asking them to deliver what's already in the patch notes is a good start.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
They hide behind a series of elaborate, but ultimately flawed, series of excuses to hide it, but in the end... They can't do it.
This is basically what I was trying to say.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
-The first Fehl'kri mission has one of the anomalies right on top of another.
-At least one of the sector patrols has mobs at different places on the z-axis, with close ones more than 45-degrees off the x-y plane.
-One of the Cardassian patrols has this; my ship is at maximum depression, with the asteroid belt at only a slightly smaller angle; and as we know, the mobs like to hid in the asteroids, sometimes above, but sometimes below, and this gives us no real room to do anything besides charge right at them.
This is dumb. Space combat games have had full movement for years, from X-Wing all the way to Freelancer and beyond. People played all those games with only a minimum of problems. There's no horizon in space, so there's no need to align with it. If there is a proper up-down orientation in the game, there should be some auto-roll-correct function (if not, that's bad game design; even STO does this sorta with the ship customizer).
At the time the game was created, it was felt that this orientation was the most canon way to do it.
As a speculation, it most likely cut several months of development time off the final product by doing it this way...
They were on a very tight time table for completion.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I realize, it's Star Trek, North pole is up, South pole is down and when you orbit a planet you do it perpendicular to the surface when you are parallel to the equator, but still it's space.
A Defiant being able to do a barrel roll reversal flying straight up and flipping over to end up flying in the opposite direction is exactly how a Defiant is supposed to be able to fly.
Yet do imagine for a moment Star Trek Online with combat as deep and cool as the one in Nexus: The Jupiter Incident.
I will leave a minute of silence for what could have been.
As a small aside I do want to add space combat and dogfight games like Freespace, Starlancer, etc, have been doing this since the genre does exist and no one was hurt other than by the really good players' enormous ego.
This is IMO a silly argument...
I've played a ton of games with no axis-restriction, and while granted, it takes about 10 mins to get used to, it really isn't that hard.
If you can't figure out 3D movement, then how are you smart enough to look up and down?
The argument is just not valid on any level if you ask me...
even the Sovereign does not do any big maneuvers the only time the Sovereign flipped upside down almost was in Insurrection and that was because it was hit by the shockwave of the gass exploding and as i recall they took quite a bit of damage from it and a few people was thrown around
I hope STO get's better ...
I hope STO get's better ...
no just stupid just because you want it don't make it fit the theme of the setting I have never seen ships in star trek do the maneuvers a true 360 direction would allow so it's not canon and it has no place in STO
How is it stupid. STO is not very cannon sometimes you know. Bu 360 does not mean you have ti 360 it just means that space flight would be more accurate, beacuse there is no up or down, but currently there is. In star trek there appears to be no up or down to make oit easy for you.
I hope STO get's better ...