I am lucky enough to own the captains yacht. I was just wizzing by some ships, one which was the sovereign class, un-altered, and I flwe beneath it when lo and behold! My ship was far Far to big for the space allocated . My shuttle is to big / the sovereign is too small or both. This really ruins my experince. But it does not stop there. An excelsior (Cmdr) warped in next to the sovereign and it was nearly as big! How? There seems to be a big scale problem! What Do you guys think? And seriously PWE, I think this needs to be adressed.
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
I doubt they agree with you there. It would be expensive for them to go back and rework all ship scale at this point. Add into that that there's no extra money to be made in doing that and well, realistically it's just not going to happen.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
Scale is very difficult to do with any game engine. Basically, when you switch ship, you just change your costume. Same when you switch from ground to space and vice versa. If they decrease the size of small vessels, you will barely see it on screen, it will be ridiculously small. The same size than the pet carrier.
Sometimes you have to drop a bit of immersion, because it's a videogame and you can't do it the way it should be.
Not trying to be mean but do they want a realistic , good game? This would decrease the gap between canon ships and STO ships.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all that it would be a fine thing. I would love to see ships that convey the immensity they're supposed to have. That goes beyond scale issues, but just focusing on that part, I don't see them doing it. Especially not unless they can find a way to profit extra from the effort.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
I've never understood why people cause such a fuss in games with an IP about scaling.
Even if they did properly scale things, to an exact degree, there would be heaps of threads complaining about how 'I can't see my Defiant anymore', or 'my carrier pets are way too small', and so on.
Proper scaling would be nice, but it's not something I feel very necessary at all, and I would rather see my ships, then be watching specks or monsters.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I've never understood why people cause such a fuss in games with an IP about scaling.
Even if they did properly scale things, to an exact degree, there would be heaps of threads complaining about how 'I can't see my Defiant anymore', or 'my carrier pets are way too small', and so on.
Proper scaling would be nice, but it's not something I feel very necessary at all, and I would rather see my ships, then be watching specks or monsters.
Then adjust* sale on your screen or ... Zoom in?
*By that I mean if you have a big Odyssey, then your ship would appear the same size on your screen as your defiant. But when you compare the two, the defiant will look small compared to you.
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
Over the past few months I have been compounding a list of all the size issues in STO. The document itself is on another computer, but here are some of the highlights:
1. The Defiant is too big. It should be about 1/6th the length of Galaxy class when in game it's closer to 1/3.
3. Deep Space K-7 on the other hand is FIFTY TIMES it's actual size. It's about 350 meters making it smaller than a Excelsior.
4. Hilariously, Spacedock is actually too small. Canonically, it can contain eight Galaxy Class sized ships. When in game... a Galaxy class can't even fit through the doors. :P
5. Player Starbases are also to big. The windows don't line up to player ship windows. (No matter the ship)
And there is much, much more. This is such a problem that some of my friends have left the game, and have sworn to never come back until the scale issues have been fixed. (I really wish I were joking... I really do. )
And there is much, much more. This is such a problem that some of my friends have left the game, and have sworn to never come back until the scale issues have been fixed. (I really wish I were joking... I really do. )[/QUOTE]
It really does create a problem. It is making feel a bit on wobbly ground. Do you think there is any way we can get PWE to adress this?
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
It really does create a problem. It is making feel a bit on wobbly ground. Do you think there is any way we can get PWE to adress this?
Considering PWE can't get off it's TRIBBLE and fix the actual bugs that are present in the game, the odds of them fixing something for purely aesthetic reasons is less than zero.
Considering PWE can't get off it's TRIBBLE and fix the actual bugs that are present in the game, the odds of them fixing something for purely aesthetic reasons is less than zero.
How sad, but I really do hope they do something about it
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
Considering PWE can't get off it's TRIBBLE and fix the actual bugs that are present in the game, the odds of them fixing something for purely aesthetic reasons is less than zero.
PWE is merely the parent company. They may set Cryptics budget, and take care of the advertisements, but they have basically Zero control over what get's fixed and what doesn't.
The thing that people must understand is that Cryptic has a limited team. Often times the people that make new content are also the people that fix bugs. In fact, that it most likely the case with all bugs unless the Dev leaves the company and someone else has to clean up after them (Gozer, I'm looking at YOU!).
So we either have to choose between new content that people will pay for, and fixing old stuff that probably won't net much money.
Surprise, surprise, guess which one Cryptic goes with?
the ship scales in the game are pretty spot on with a few exceptions.
the Defiant is bigger than it is supposed to be because otherwise it would be too small to see (what the devs said), so that one was a design decision.
For some odd reason the T5 Steamrunner is bigger than the T3 Steamrunner, and therefore too big.
Shuttles/Fighters are intentionally too big, BUT they are scaled properly to each other.
bottom line: working as intended.
and if you don't like the intention, have fun changing the responsible Dev's mind and getting dStahl to put it on the Schedule...
Not even close. The reason that scaling was not correctly handled was because the game engine has S I G N I F I C A N T limitations in that regard.
I know this because I actually worked on one of the Star Trek games - where we had to scale the ships accordingly. We used the Starfleet information as much as we could - the Galaxy is larger than the Sovereign and the Intrepid is much - much - smaller. They had very different functional parameters - but none of these things really matter to the Cryptic team. They simply made the models as close to accurate as they could but the scaling relative to the other models was incidental.
No. You are wrong. The Cryptic ship modelers have done lots of research as to the sizes of ships. The problems is that Star Trek itself was not consistent on the size of ships in their visuals. Cryptic has to make decision on what size to make their ships and went from there.
And Crptic has said that some scaling was done for visuals reasons. STOs DS9 model is deliberately scaled larger. So it didn't look overwhelmed with lots of player ships zoning in on top of it (an artistic interpretation). The very same reasons that ships sizes the in ST shows and movies varied.
No. You are wrong. The Cryptic ship modelers have done lots of research as to the sizes of ships. The problems is that Star Trek itself was not consistent on the size of ships in their visuals. Cryptic has to make decision on what size to make their ships and went from there.
And Crptic has said that some scaling was done for visuals reasons. STOs DS9 model is deliberately scaled larger. So it didn't look overwhelmed with lots of player ships zoning in on top of it (an artistic interpretation). The very same reasons that ships sizes the in ST shows and movies varied.
Yeah, but there are so many fat hardcore trekkies who don't understand this -.-
Like the two imbeciles who stopped playing STO because of the scaling "issues" :P
the ship scales in the game are pretty spot on with a few exceptions.
the Defiant is bigger than it is supposed to be because otherwise it would be too small to see (what the devs said), so that one was a design decision.
For some odd reason the T5 Steamrunner is bigger than the T3 Steamrunner, and therefore too big.
Shuttles/Fighters are intentionally too big, BUT they are scaled properly to each other.
bottom line: working as intended.
and if you don't like the intention, have fun changing the responsible Dev's mind and getting dStahl to put it on the Schedule...
Exactly. Not to mention that the Defiant's size was notoriously inconsistent.
Shuttles would outright not be visible if they were appropriately scaled. But they're pretty well scaled to the oversized DS9.
Most other 'apparent' scale issues between ships is probably due to how they were shown on the shows and the fact that accurate scale charts usually only compare them in 2D, not 3D with perspective to deal with. Even try to get orthographic views from the ship customizer, the farther parts will be affected by perspective and not projected isometrically like on a 2D chart.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
Granted this is an older chart that doesn't account for newer ships, but it covers the majority of what exists, and as you can see, by and large things are pretty close to scale.
EShuttles would outright not be visible if they were appropriately scaled.
I don't believe this at all.
There have been plenty of times with shuttles and larger vessels together in the same sequence during the series, and they look perfectly fine together. Shuttles aren't that tiny. During what I believe is the Starbase Defense (could be wrong though) their are lots of little shuttles evacuating the starbase. They appear to be the correct size, and I can see them just fine, and I even have an older computer.
So I don't believe the "too small to be seen" excuse for a second.
And there is much, much more. This is such a problem that some of my friends have left the game, and have sworn to never come back until the scale issues have been fixed. (I really wish I were joking... I really do. )
The Defiant should be (and is) around 160 meters long. The ships are all to scale with eachother. The only dispute is where Cryptic got their scale from but in every case, they used AN official source, just not necessarily the one you agree with.
Shuttles are to scale with eachother but deliberately out of scale with ships.
DS9 is also deliberately out of scale. Cryptic wants it to look bigger. They like big ships ducking in and out of the pylons. They're aware its inaccurate. Every Cryptic employee who suggested fixing it was shot down on that suggestion.
Comments
I doubt they agree with you there. It would be expensive for them to go back and rework all ship scale at this point. Add into that that there's no extra money to be made in doing that and well, realistically it's just not going to happen.
I hope STO get's better ...
Sometimes you have to drop a bit of immersion, because it's a videogame and you can't do it the way it should be.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all that it would be a fine thing. I would love to see ships that convey the immensity they're supposed to have. That goes beyond scale issues, but just focusing on that part, I don't see them doing it. Especially not unless they can find a way to profit extra from the effort.
Even if they did properly scale things, to an exact degree, there would be heaps of threads complaining about how 'I can't see my Defiant anymore', or 'my carrier pets are way too small', and so on.
Proper scaling would be nice, but it's not something I feel very necessary at all, and I would rather see my ships, then be watching specks or monsters.
Then adjust* sale on your screen or ... Zoom in?
*By that I mean if you have a big Odyssey, then your ship would appear the same size on your screen as your defiant. But when you compare the two, the defiant will look small compared to you.
I hope STO get's better ...
And there is much, much more. This is such a problem that some of my friends have left the game, and have sworn to never come back until the scale issues have been fixed. (I really wish I were joking... I really do.
It really does create a problem. It is making feel a bit on wobbly ground. Do you think there is any way we can get PWE to adress this?
I hope STO get's better ...
Considering PWE can't get off it's TRIBBLE and fix the actual bugs that are present in the game, the odds of them fixing something for purely aesthetic reasons is less than zero.
I hope STO get's better ...
PWE is merely the parent company. They may set Cryptics budget, and take care of the advertisements, but they have basically Zero control over what get's fixed and what doesn't.
The thing that people must understand is that Cryptic has a limited team. Often times the people that make new content are also the people that fix bugs. In fact, that it most likely the case with all bugs unless the Dev leaves the company and someone else has to clean up after them (Gozer, I'm looking at YOU!).
So we either have to choose between new content that people will pay for, and fixing old stuff that probably won't net much money.
Surprise, surprise, guess which one Cryptic goes with?
DS9 is larger than she really is, because players felt her actual size was too small and some players who wanted to dock couldn't do so.
With shuttlecraft, they were scaled up because players found it hard to zoom in and get a feeling of direction (zoom only goes so far).
Could Cryptic fix this, yes. But right now it's a very low priority.
the Defiant is bigger than it is supposed to be because otherwise it would be too small to see (what the devs said), so that one was a design decision.
For some odd reason the T5 Steamrunner is bigger than the T3 Steamrunner, and therefore too big.
Shuttles/Fighters are intentionally too big, BUT they are scaled properly to each other.
bottom line: working as intended.
and if you don't like the intention, have fun changing the responsible Dev's mind and getting dStahl to put it on the Schedule...
No. You are wrong. The Cryptic ship modelers have done lots of research as to the sizes of ships. The problems is that Star Trek itself was not consistent on the size of ships in their visuals. Cryptic has to make decision on what size to make their ships and went from there.
And Crptic has said that some scaling was done for visuals reasons. STOs DS9 model is deliberately scaled larger. So it didn't look overwhelmed with lots of player ships zoning in on top of it (an artistic interpretation). The very same reasons that ships sizes the in ST shows and movies varied.
Yeah, but there are so many fat hardcore trekkies who don't understand this -.-
Like the two imbeciles who stopped playing STO because of the scaling "issues" :P
Exactly. Not to mention that the Defiant's size was notoriously inconsistent.
Shuttles would outright not be visible if they were appropriately scaled. But they're pretty well scaled to the oversized DS9.
Most other 'apparent' scale issues between ships is probably due to how they were shown on the shows and the fact that accurate scale charts usually only compare them in 2D, not 3D with perspective to deal with. Even try to get orthographic views from the ship customizer, the farther parts will be affected by perspective and not projected isometrically like on a 2D chart.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well look what we've got here.
Granted this is an older chart that doesn't account for newer ships, but it covers the majority of what exists, and as you can see, by and large things are pretty close to scale.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I don't believe this at all.
There have been plenty of times with shuttles and larger vessels together in the same sequence during the series, and they look perfectly fine together. Shuttles aren't that tiny. During what I believe is the Starbase Defense (could be wrong though) their are lots of little shuttles evacuating the starbase. They appear to be the correct size, and I can see them just fine, and I even have an older computer.
So I don't believe the "too small to be seen" excuse for a second.
The Defiant should be (and is) around 160 meters long. The ships are all to scale with eachother. The only dispute is where Cryptic got their scale from but in every case, they used AN official source, just not necessarily the one you agree with.
Shuttles are to scale with eachother but deliberately out of scale with ships.
DS9 is also deliberately out of scale. Cryptic wants it to look bigger. They like big ships ducking in and out of the pylons. They're aware its inaccurate. Every Cryptic employee who suggested fixing it was shot down on that suggestion.