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An idea to reintroduce Need or Greed

assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
As everyone who does any kind of group content in PUGs knows need or greed is almost dead. Most people choose need by default and people who would usually use greed adapt to get something at all. So here's my absolutely crazy idea to reintroduce proper need or greed. Feedback is welcome.

Every time in a fleet action or STF something to roll on comes up and you chose "Pass" you get an extra mark.

Every time in a fleet action or STF something to roll on comes up and you chose "Greed" you get an extra mark if you fail the roll. If you win it you get the item you rolled on.

Every time in a fleet action or STF something to roll on comes up and you chose "Need" you get the item if you win the roll. Otherwise you get nothing.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Post edited by assimilatedktar on
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Comments

  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    And a ninja update to increase mark income... very sneaky.

    I thought of allowing a player to only choose 'Need' once in a period of time, say 5 minutes, to stop the Need spam on every piece of trash that appears. Then we could rename 'Greed' to just 'Roll', since Need is actually more greedy anyway.
    EnYn9p9.jpg
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    How about

    ONE Need per mission
    Three Greeds per mission
    unlimited passes per mission
    Live long and Prosper
  • thratch1thratch1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    They need to add in a reliable way to make EC beyond Needing and selling everything, along with drastically reducing the vendor value of gear, if they wanted to break people of the habit of hitting Need every time.

    On the flip side, though... nothing of value ever drops from mobs. Unless you're leveling, you'll likely never see an upgrade drop, so the only thing you can do with that stuff is vendor it. That being the case, there's no real reason at all to touch the system.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    There's no reason to encourage people to use Need or Greed. Just get rid of it and distribute the loot randomly. Everyone wants the loot, stop asking stupid questiions.

    Know that if there was an encouragement to not always Need, that would just mean everyone would Greed all the cheap trash and Need the few valuable items. The end result is exactly the same as it is now, except then everyone would have to pay attention to the flow of vendor trash in case there's something worth more than pocket change in there.

    Random distribution with no questions > blindly clicking Need on everything > being forced to watch the item drops instead of playing the game



    If there was a reason to care about loot other than its resale value, I could support a better distribution system (not Need & Greed, and not something you have to make a decision on in the heat of battle), but there isn't.
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,991 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    How about "You kill it, you win it's loot?"

    Like in the non group play.
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    warpangel wrote: »
    There's no reason to encourage people to use Need or Greed. Just get rid of it and distribute the loot randomly. Everyone wants the loot, stop asking stupid questiions.

    Know that if there was an encouragement to not always Need, that would just mean everyone would Greed all the cheap trash and Need the few valuable items. The end result is exactly the same as it is now, except then everyone would have to pay attention to the flow of vendor trash in case there's something worth more than pocket change in there.

    Random distribution with no questions > blindly clicking Need on everything > being forced to watch the item drops instead of playing the game



    If there was a reason to care about loot other than its resale value, I could support a better distribution system (not Need & Greed, and not something you have to make a decision on in the heat of battle), but there isn't.

    And here you forget the people who dont want to get there inventory filled with mk x white stuff. So, Need or Drop should be the possible answers.
  • zerobangzerobang Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    not to mention that the Need or Greed UI does not even work in shooter mode, you can't press the button without swapping to RPG mode....

    just one more reason why Shooter mode is not a feasible option to play with, compared to RPG mode. (there are a lot more reasons, but this is a big one).


    and yes i just hammer Need all the time and dont even look at the loot that drops because it's all just vendor trash these days anyway,
    at best something drops that you can sell on the exchange for a few more EC, and maybe, if your lucky one time a year something drops that you can actually use, i will not wait for that one time a year to press need ;P


    i'd be perfectly fine with getting rid of this broken mechanic and swapping it to round robbing.


    i also wouldn't mind if i would NOT have to press F for every loot drop, in other games you have a simple filter, what quality of items / what type do you want to pick up and what is converted to currency directly, and you just need to walk into it's range and it comes flying towards you instead of you needing to Press F all the time.

    i also wouldnt mind if those loot containers and lockboxes would stop cluttering space on the screen, there is enough of a neon lightshow going on already with all the crazy wizzard powers out there.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I wish we could change that on open teams. :(

    For non-open teams we have:
    Round Robin; rotates players to give drops to
    Free-for-all; gives drops to whoever kills the enemy
    Master Lootist; gives all drops to the team leader (this sounds bad, but if the team doesn't WANT the loot...)
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • rustiswordzrustiswordz Member Posts: 824 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    For many of us players we are simply not lucky enough or skilled enough when it comes to Greed/Round Robin or the exchange to make ec.

    Until they give us players another viable method of making decent amounts of ec then need it is. I press need everytime. Its the only way for unskilled in the ways of cash making to get ec. Thats the way it is.
    Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo... :D
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Or (as I have said before )

    Give EVERYONE the same loot
    and save time and effort
    or better still

    remove ALL "loot" and issue level correct gear on level up
    Live long and Prosper
  • srafaoraspsrafaorasp Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Or (as I have said before )

    Give EVERYONE the same loot
    and save time and effort
    or better still

    remove ALL "loot" and issue level correct gear on level up

    what? remove all loot. that is like removing the cheese from a grill cheese sandwich.

    the way i see this work is. if there are people in your group you don't know. hit need so you don't loose out.

    if you are in a group of friends need / greed rules apply.

    i like need / greed as is. and i don't see any need to change it. what i think should be done how ever is a different loot mode should be chosen for pug groups
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    what? remove all loot. that is like removing the cheese from a grill cheese sandwich.

    starfleet officers are not pirates
    Starfleet should ISSUE gear this eliminates the need for drops

    you could keep them for Orions , ferengi and other "less well funded" groups

    the way i see this work is. if there are people in your group you don't know. hit need so you don't loose out.

    just hit pass like a real officer
    if you are in a group of friends need / greed rules apply.

    in our group everyone other than Ian hits either Greed or pass Ian has permission to hit Need on any MkIX or higher item as he is currently trying to fit out his Klingon ships (two vessels)
    i like need / greed as is. and i don't see any need to change it. what i think should be done how ever is a different loot mode should be chosen for pug groups

    how about this

    Mission completed (NO DEATHS ) everyone gets a purple item of the correct rank and 500 Dilith 40 marks and 20,000 ec
    Mission completed (one death) Everyone gets a blue item of correct rank 400 dilith 30 marks and 20,000 ec
    Mission completed (two or three deaths) Everyone gets a White item of correct rank 300 dilith 20 marks and 20,000 ec
    Mission completed (4 or more deaths ) Everyone gets 200 dilith 10 marks and 10,000 EC
    Mission failed no one gets ANYTHING
    persons leaving the mission (log outs) get nothing but do not count as a death

    This erases need or greed
    removes AFK as an option
    encourages teamwork
    AND kills dead the complaining

    As to the items

    for Ground you would get a "ground requisition" good for one item of the correct quality
    in space a "space requisition"
    no randomness
    no messing about
    Live long and Prosper
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    As everyone who does any kind of group content in PUGs knows need or greed is almost dead. Most people choose need by default and people who would usually use greed adapt to get something at all.

    ...ah. So that's why I haven't gotten anything from the PvE queues and Sector Defenses I've done. Silly me, hitting Greed. :/
    How about "You kill it, you win it's loot?"

    Like in the non group play.


    Yeah, the support classes/ships would love that. :rolleyes:
  • thratch1thratch1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    starfleet officers are not pirates
    Starfleet should ISSUE gear this eliminates the need for drops

    It may not be in-character for a Starfleet officer to go around looting ships they destroy... but it is more fun than just being handed gear.

    This game has long since given up on trying to give you any kind of authentic Star Trek experience. Instead, it's just Space Action MMO where you fly around and blow things up, and maybe sometimes do sub-par ground combat. The best you can do at this point is just roll with it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    the support classes (tacs in escorts) can lump it I think
    #
    Live long and Prosper
  • srafaoraspsrafaorasp Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    ok let me start by saying this "I am me get over it" (Anti RP Statement)

    removing loot from the game would totally ruin the economy. and just when the STO economy was getting back on it's feet with proper EC sinks.

    this is easy to do.

    round Robbin default for pugs

    need / greed default for pre made groups etc.

    btw. this is Star trek online. not Star Trek Simulator

    there for game play has more weight then canon
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Game play is not grinding

    you would still earn gear but Not at complete random

    one thing I really hate to see is a starfleet officer in a Jem escort armed with klingon cannons
    and a crew consisting of borg

    it ANNOYS me

    would it not be better if when you leveled to rank VA you were issued White quality Mk XII Starfleet gear for your ship?

    As to the economy
    killing that would be a kindness

    Star trek should not have currency speculators and ponzi schemes
    Live long and Prosper
  • blakes7tvseriesblakes7tvseries Member Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The feedback I get from our fleet is just change it to auto roll and loot..
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  • srafaoraspsrafaorasp Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Game play is not grinding

    you would still earn gear but Not at complete random

    one thing I really hate to see is a starfleet officer in a Jem escort armed with klingon cannons
    and a crew consisting of borg

    it ANNOYS me

    would it not be better if when you leveled to rank VA you were issued White quality Mk XII Starfleet gear for your ship?

    As to the economy
    killing that would be a kindness

    Star trek should not have currency speculators and ponzi schemes

    not going to happen. as i said star trek online not simulator.

    i get annoyed with people running around in all different uniforms. if it were up to me we would only have 3 uniforms to choose from. but that is never going to happen. because it hurts game play.

    yes i agree with what you say and it is true this stuff should not exist in Star trek. how ever this is a game not a simulator. there for it is adapted to a way that is fun for us. and not paper work online why bother bringing the phasers it's just a clickie all around online
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    could be a great game
    indeed it could be the best of games

    but it should be Startrek not "battlewolf galactica the third dynasty the jedi eat cheese"
    Live long and Prosper
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Right now, the only time I get in a group were GREED is used in Need / Greed is when I'm in a group with friends. And NEED actually is used for items you NEED.

    And NEED is now the preference because of NEEDers who had to NEED with every single drop, which to me indicates how the community is going in a bad direction, out of pure greed.


    There are two things that I felt that Cryptic should take:

    For Public Queues, either drop goes to the killer or they change it from WANT / PASS system. (Especially when most people want big EC items like Shields, Impulse Engines, and Deflectors).

    If they want to keep NEED / GREED, NEEDing should have diminishing returns. The more you NEED, the lower your chances of getting an item.
  • idronaidrona Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    As everyone who does any kind of group content in PUGs knows need or greed is almost dead. Most people choose need by default and people who would usually use greed adapt to get something at all. So here's my absolutely crazy idea to reintroduce proper need or greed. Feedback is welcome.

    Every time in a fleet action or STF something to roll on comes up and you chose "Pass" you get an extra mark.

    Every time in a fleet action or STF something to roll on comes up and you chose "Greed" you get an extra mark if you fail the roll. If you win it you get the item you rolled on.

    Every time in a fleet action or STF something to roll on comes up and you chose "Need" you get the item if you win the roll. Otherwise you get nothing.

    I agree that in STO this is bit of a "problem" and some changes to the system would be nice.

    I've used to always select greed in all games, doing that in STO always leaves me with very little to nothig lootwise. (Greedy trekkies!)

    Thus soloing anything that I can in STO is actually much more profitable for me.

    If nothing else give us the option to set the preference to always autoneed on everything, though the idea with an incentive on Passing isn't bad.
    signwidrona.png
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    How about "You kill it, you win it's loot?"

    Like in the non group play.
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Yeah, the support classes/ships would love that. :rolleyes:
    sollvax wrote: »
    the support classes (tacs in escorts) can lump it I think
    #



    No, the support classes (vs "DPS"). YOu know, the healers, ontrollers, tanks? Sci and Eng?

    A system of "who kills it gets the loot" will always favor the DPS class over the others.
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    its time we removed DPS entirely from the equations

    a cannon should do the same damage at the same range as a turret
    and the range should be LESS than a beam bank
    Live long and Prosper
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    its time we removed DPS entirely from the equations

    a cannon should do the same damage at the same range as a turret
    and the range should be LESS than a beam bank



    Even with that.... wouldn't a ship whose purpose is combat mount more/better guns than a ship whose purpose is, say, mobile laboratory?


    And therefore, do more damage, in less time?

    As is proper, otherwise whoever designed the warship didn't do their job correctly (either inlore, or in gameplay.)
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Escorts should ESCORT
    they are short range close engagement fighter ships

    no way should an escort have even a fraction of the power of a battle cruiser

    a real world comparison
    imagine a frigate with more firepower than the battleship its guarding
    Live long and Prosper
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Real world comparison in star trek? Lets have the defiant for instance, far superior to fed cruiser. And before people start telling me a excelsior refit was as strong... both didnt use quantums, and none of them wanted to destroy the other. So, in a fight, the Escort Defiant would have owned the Cruiser. With pure Damage...
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Defiant was a flying bomb
    it was slightly stronger than the tos enterprise
    it was not intended to survive battle

    and it didn't
    Live long and Prosper
  • maristonmariston Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    A simple solution that will get me flamed:

    If you choose "Need", make it bind on pickup--since you are going to use it anyway or you wouldn't have chosen "Need". Another option is to make "Need" items non-sellable.
  • sparhawksparhawk Member Posts: 796 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Eh, I'll repeat what I've said before on these topics on occasion. Drop the antiquated roll system entirely and give everyone their own randomly determined loot drops from every mob when running group content.
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