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PVP - Flagship idea (spoiler involves teamwork)

darthlonestarrdarthlonestarr Member Posts: 161 Arc User
edited May 2013 in PvP Gameplay
Its time to kick PVP on its head and use a idea I remember from my times playing Halo and give it a nice Trek feel to introduce a PVP event that STO has been sorely missing.

I know suggestions are a dime a dozen, but space PVP could use one more type of game, a game that would bring traditional non-PVP players into the fold.

In the world of Halo it was called VIP - One player on each team is Very Important. Take down the enemy's VIP for points, but take care of your own. Change VIP to Flagship and all of a sudden you have 2 fleets/teams with a reason to shoot at each other and most importantly protect each other. Science ships, Cruisers, Carriers, and Escorts all have a role to fill and we can finally curb some of the DPS is king mentality.

Simple rules ? Take out the enemies? flagship and the match is over. Prior to the match the team has a pop up showing all the ships in the group, there is a quick vote using pop ups and a flag ship is chosen. That flagship is given a hefty bump in hull and shields. We don?t want to make this too easy, do we? Now the other change I would like to see is those ships within 7k sphere of the flagship get a bonus as well. That can be % in shields, hull, or reduced Cool Down on BO abilities. You could even make it so the flagship received bonuses based on the # of ships that are in support.

Now we have a match where a Cruiser can do what a cruiser does best and be a tank and not have to worry about the DPS numbers. Science ships can be defensive or offensive support, and Escort can make attach runs on enemy flagships or defensive support. Carriers and fighter spam become great assets to both sides.

Allow the flagship to have access to some fleet commands that can mark targets and it becomes a way more balanced and thought provoking PVP game. How many ships do you keep with the flagship, how many do you send out? Do you keep everyone together and go as one big battle group. Its could be so much more than the shoot-shoot-shoot mentality.

To review

1) Cloak would be disabled on the flagship. The flagship world have access to fleet commands such as attack or heal markers that would identify ships for the team to respond to..
2) In a 15-point match, destruction of the flagship would be worth 15 points. Every enemy ship blown up would still be 1-point.
3) Bonus % for flagship and escorting craft TBD
4) A popup prior to the match would allow teams to select the teams flagship, majority wins.


A bit crazy yes, but a fairly simple idea that has worked in other games, that could revolutionize a sorely underachieving part of STO.

Maybe this has been talked about in the past, but I feel and always felt that PVP is where the real action is. Sorry if I am repeating anyone else s idea(s).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Unrepentant; the pants optional fleet.
Support Flagship PVP and Target Marking
Post edited by darthlonestarr on

Comments

  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Well, this would be an interesting idea. I'd love to see something like this.

    By cloaking, does this also count the Romulan rep tier 5 ability along with Mask Energy Signature and Mask Energy Field?

    Also, one thing I'd like to add in is that the bonus should scale according to the ship that is labeled as the flagship, and also how many people are on each side.

    Like a little normal Patrol Escort and only 3 other people, one on his team and 2 on the other, shouldn't get a big boost.

    But a huge Odyssey being escorted by 9 other ships in a big 10v10 match should be a juggernaut to bring down. On par, or nearly on par with a dreadnought level NPC ship. This would of course also buff the other bonuses given to the other players most likely.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Sounds fun, it will make tough ships like Oddy, Bortasqu, Fleet Neghvar, Voquv, Fleet Star Cruiser, and Fleet Galaxy much more needed in pvp.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • darthlonestarrdarthlonestarr Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Well, this would be an interesting idea. I'd love to see something like this.

    By cloaking, does this also count the Romulan rep tier 5 ability along with Mask Energy Signature and Mask Energy Field?

    Also, one thing I'd like to add in is that the bonus should scale according to the ship that is labeled as the flagship, and also how many people are on each side.

    Like a little normal Patrol Escort and only 3 other people, one on his team and 2 on the other, shouldn't get a big boost.

    But a huge Odyssey being escorted by 9 other ships in a big 10v10 match should be a juggernaut to bring down. On par, or nearly on par with a dreadnought level NPC ship. This would of course also buff the other bonuses given to the other players most likely.

    I put the note on note allowing the flagship to cloak, to keep the idea of having a cloaked flagship hiding in the corner of the map away from the action. That really defeats the purpose of the game. You would think a flagship would have extra hull plating and spots for shield nodes and larger engines, that would make cloaking unavailable. Mask Energy signature would be fine and actually become a really useful BO skill. At the same time, if the flagships escorts are not using the masked skill, it wouldn't matter to much.

    A consistent 10x10 player match or larger,is one of those things I have really wanted since the game came out. The other is giving cruisers a real reason to be an aggo-machine. This idea solves both.

    I am not trying to pigeon hold the theoretical PVP event into one shoe, but hopefully show PWE and Cryptic that we can take an old idea and bring it to STO and have a great feature that would be a lot of fun. A lot of us that have flown support cruisers know that it is a rough job, and this would be a really great way to bring some of those/us that are disenfranchised with PVP back into the game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Unrepentant; the pants optional fleet.
    Support Flagship PVP and Target Marking
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    but uhh...

    the whole allocate target thing....

    isnt that what voice comms are for?
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • darthlonestarrdarthlonestarr Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Yes, I agree that voice chat is the easiest way to do anything.

    My fleet uses Mumble and we love it. Allowing the flagship commander the ability to mark enemies just has the right feel to it. Makes it really seem that the flagship is doing more than hitting Eng Team and EPS.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Unrepentant; the pants optional fleet.
    Support Flagship PVP and Target Marking
  • ebeneezergoodeebeneezergoode Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    maicake716 wrote: »
    but uhh...

    the whole allocate target thing....

    isnt that what voice comms are for?

    Yeah, but how many pugs have access to that? It'd serve as an equaliser, and things like TARGET: $target aren't really common knowledge either. That sort of thing ought to be if not in a tutorial of some sort, one of the "handy bits of info" that pops up during loading screens.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thegrimcorsairthegrimcorsair Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Overall, I like the idea, but there's a few mechanics between here and there that'd need sorting out before it was released live. Chief among them the vulnerability said flagship would have to Tippler Cylinder+Manheim Device DP:B3 Tric Minelayers. It seems to me one of those plus a couple more mine droppers would lead to virtually a guaranteed win every time for the team using them.
    If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
  • paarethpaareth Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I like this idea.

    But to those with the best gear and the higher def.

    Can you survive 8 ships shooting at you at once? If not, simple solution, give the flagship a defense buff while anyone else is alive around it, and increase this the more players that survive around it. +20% for each surviving team mate. Thus if 5 are alive in proximity to the flagship it cannot die.

    Once they are dead the flagship is much, much easier to kill.

    Don't like this idea? Make it fixed shield structures that buff the flagship, once they are down the flagship goes down quicker. Of course you'll need to move the flagship outside of the spawn zone... else this will be pointless, and they will always be buffed - Maybe king of the hill at the center?

    In this scenario 5 kills on the big ship and it should be over. Personally i'd spawn the big ships at the center and the non flagships outside of that.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    ah well.. a simpler thing would be to just have a "mark target" ability.

    this could easly be useful in pve as well. you "mark the target" and a little star goes above their head.

    BOOM encourages teamwork.

    they could even make a little pve mission explaining it and that its new "tech" from starfleet/klingons/whatever that will help them all target the same formidable enemy.

    or something...

    i think i need to make a post in the general section now.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • brandonflbrandonfl Member Posts: 892
    edited December 2012
    Yeah, but how many pugs have access to that? It'd serve as an equaliser, and things like TARGET: $target aren't really common knowledge either. That sort of thing ought to be if not in a tutorial of some sort, one of the "handy bits of info" that pops up during loading screens.

    Last time I checked, the game had integrated VOIP comms. Just sayin... Of course, nobody uses it, but it is there.

    I really like this idea for a new PvP game mode, though. It sounds like a lot of fun.
    LOLSTO
  • onenonlydrockonenonlydrock Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I wouldn't go for a one kill end to PvP's, but the idea of say... flagships being worth more points would be a good idea. Also in Cap and Hold, you could have points subtracted on the cap counter whenever the flagship is destroyed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • nalonalo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    This is a great idea really like it :) It made me think of Titan mode if anyone ever played battlefield 2142/Battlefield 2142,wiki then I thought of how it could also make a very awesome ground map with teams either attempting to take or defend a flagship.Well I should maybe start a new thread as I wouldnt want to derail this one. If I get around to I will try later on when I have time but other than steal ing the idea for the ground map the only thing I can really add to it is the teams should be able to make use of consoles and other props to advance there side.
  • darthlonestarrdarthlonestarr Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Thanks for all the feedback.

    - The Flagship being the primary target is the key and it really needs to have a large point total to it. If its a one kill or 3 kill or 5 kill match that may be an option I will leave to the good folks at PWE or Cryptic.

    - I did play something similar in some ground FPS so having a ground versions wouldn't be too far fetched and would pretty cool. I am still hoping for a space flagship version first though. So keep the replies coming.

    - Target marking is a fairly common practice in most other MMO's where large groups have to split and attack various targets. Yes voice chat helps, but sometimes you need a bit more and marking a ship with a red box or star would be a really easy way to keep track of them in combat as you shift between various assignments. Voice chat isn't always an option, as a dad there are times I just don't want to wake the little ones.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Unrepentant; the pants optional fleet.
    Support Flagship PVP and Target Marking
  • lork27lork27 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Sounds fun, they should add this mode or something very similar.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Thanks for all the feedback.

    - The Flagship being the primary target is the key and it really needs to have a large point total to it. If its a one kill or 3 kill or 5 kill match that may be an option I will leave to the good folks at PWE or Cryptic.

    - I did play something similar in some ground FPS so having a ground versions wouldn't be too far fetched and would pretty cool. I am still hoping for a space flagship version first though. So keep the replies coming.

    - Target marking is a fairly common practice in most other MMO's where large groups have to split and attack various targets. Yes voice chat helps, but sometimes you need a bit more and marking a ship with a red box or star would be a really easy way to keep track of them in combat as you shift between various assignments. Voice chat isn't always an option, as a dad there are times I just don't want to wake the little ones.

    cryptic needs baby steps with pvp. the flagship idea while nice is a bit much i think.

    a simple target marking system should be reasonable and realisitc. maybe the next ask cryptic we could ask them about it? and even point out how useful it'll be in pve so it has a realisitc chance to be introduced?
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I like this idea.

    Any new PvP mode would be welcome. Adding just one new mode would increase the existing modes by 50%. That is a lot of bang for the buck.
    __________________________________
    STO Forum member since before February 2010.
    STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
    I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Yes, the target function is sorely needed. It's easier to notice in battle than a bind and doesn't require to have chat maximized either.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • darthlonestarrdarthlonestarr Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Target Marking would be fantastic even in PVE and STF encounters.

    I'll still sit back and dream that a dev or moderator checks out this post and likes the idea(s) in here.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Unrepentant; the pants optional fleet.
    Support Flagship PVP and Target Marking
  • raincrow1straincrow1st Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Followed your siggy link to this topic, finally.

    Pretty cool idea from one of our pickled fleet members. I started playing this game because of space battles. One of my favorite fleet get togethers were the shuttle team bashing events.

    This is an interesting thought that would even get old lurkers like me to show up more often.

    Cool idea, here is a friendly bump from one of your fleet mates!:cool:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]LOVE MANKIND Hahahahahahaha
    Really Joined in MAY 2010
  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Pretty sure the flag ship you are talking about is either the Scrimitar or a Borg Cube :P

    Both coming to a Lockbox somewhere nearby in 2013!
    MT - Sad Pandas
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Its time to kick PVP on its head and use a idea I remember from my times playing Halo and give it a nice Trek feel to introduce a PVP event that STO has been sorely missing.

    I know suggestions are a dime a dozen, but space PVP could use one more type of game, a game that would bring traditional non-PVP players into the fold.

    In the world of Halo it was called VIP - One player on each team is Very Important. Take down the enemy's VIP for points, but take care of your own. Change VIP to Flagship and all of a sudden you have 2 fleets/teams with a reason to shoot at each other and most importantly protect each other. Science ships, Cruisers, Carriers, and Escorts all have a role to fill and we can finally curb some of the DPS is king mentality.

    Simple rules ? Take out the enemies? flagship and the match is over. Prior to the match the team has a pop up showing all the ships in the group, there is a quick vote using pop ups and a flag ship is chosen. That flagship is given a hefty bump in hull and shields. We don?t want to make this too easy, do we? Now the other change I would like to see is those ships within 7k sphere of the flagship get a bonus as well. That can be % in shields, hull, or reduced Cool Down on BO abilities. You could even make it so the flagship received bonuses based on the # of ships that are in support.

    Now we have a match where a Cruiser can do what a cruiser does best and be a tank and not have to worry about the DPS numbers. Science ships can be defensive or offensive support, and Escort can make attach runs on enemy flagships or defensive support. Carriers and fighter spam become great assets to both sides.

    Allow the flagship to have access to some fleet commands that can mark targets and it becomes a way more balanced and thought provoking PVP game. How many ships do you keep with the flagship, how many do you send out? Do you keep everyone together and go as one big battle group. Its could be so much more than the shoot-shoot-shoot mentality.

    To review

    1) Cloak would be disabled on the flagship. The flagship world have access to fleet commands such as attack or heal markers that would identify ships for the team to respond to..
    2) In a 15-point match, destruction of the flagship would be worth 15 points. Every enemy ship blown up would still be 1-point.
    3) Bonus % for flagship and escorting craft TBD
    4) A popup prior to the match would allow teams to select the teams flagship, majority wins.


    A bit crazy yes, but a fairly simple idea that has worked in other games, that could revolutionize a sorely underachieving part of STO.

    Maybe this has been talked about in the past, but I feel and always felt that PVP is where the real action is. Sorry if I am repeating anyone else s idea(s).

    This idea reminds me of a bachelor party I attended in college. It was held at a paintball complex and one of our games was: "Snipe the bachelor." Two of us were his body guards and had to escort him from one end of the forest to the other. The other team was comprised of 6 or so people. The 6-man team, whom we defended against, had to snipe our bachelor with a head shot. Good times, good times.
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