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placates breaks tractor beams

maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited December 2012 in PvP Gameplay
when someone gets placated any sustained powers on who they get placated by are interupted.

tractor beams loose their tractor lock and tachyon beams get put onto cooldown.

not to mention, heavy graviton beam has to "warm up" again and the quantum field focus console from the vesta is put onto cooldown as well.

i think placates a bit too powerful for what they can do.

maybe it should be changed to- "target is forced onto another target" rather then "target lock broken" that way it still forces you to reaquire who you were shooting at but doesnt interupt powers in progress?


this is sadly another undercover nerf to science powers, when will the underhanded nerfing end?
mancom wrote: »
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Post edited by maicake716 on
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Comments

  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    i thought i had this in a new thread -_-
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    one of the main reasons that KHG/passive placate are such an awful addition to the game
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Sry guys, but anything that breaks the tractor spam *high-five* mickey at this point is a welcome addition. 2xVesta 2xHec 1x atrox that is 6 hangers of danoobes, on top of the tractors brought by each of these ships, not counting borg set....

    Talk about spam
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    one of the main reasons that KHG/passive placate are such an awful addition to the game

    Sorry I have to disagree with you on this.

    I have been at the tail-end of tractor-mania for long enough. Anything that can be a counter to this is great.

    I'm at the point where I am seriously considering my Energy Siphon Carrier build again + AA.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    havam wrote: »
    Sry guys, but anything that breaks the tractor spam *high-five* mickey at this point is a welcome addition. 2xVesta 2xHec 1x atrox that is 6 hangers of danoobes, on top of the tractors brought by each of these ships, not counting borg set....

    Talk about spam

    except it only stops the players tractor beam and not the pets unless you placate them too. which means a crit hit, which means theyre more then likely already dead.

    placates like this are bad for science.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • edited December 2012
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Placates have always broken tractor beams. That is quite obviously intended, and rightly so. There should be counters for things like tractor beams, and it is rather boring when it all just boils down to APO.

    i dont doubt there should be counters to tractor beams. and there are.

    polarize hull and attack pattern omega. 2 distinctly different abilites that allow you to ignore tractor beams.

    a placate that breaks science powers or any power that has a duration is a bit over the top.


    yes i know its getting a 12 second cooldown, but thats still a bit much considering how easy it is now to get critcal hits.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    maicake716 wrote: »
    i dont doubt there should be counters to tractor beams. and there are.

    polarize hull and attack pattern omega. 2 distinctly different abilites that allow you to ignore tractor beams.

    a placate that breaks science powers or any power that has a duration is a bit over the top.


    yes i know its getting a 12 second cooldown, but thats still a bit much considering how easy it is now to get critcal hits.

    Not yet convinced, as I have not experienced the problem, but I am willing to consider what you are saying, and agree that right now science in general is needing some love.

    It would be interesting to see what the result show with the two other classes? Are any of their abilities affected?
  • stevehalestevehale Member Posts: 437
    edited December 2012
    I love counters. I don't care for passive counters.

    The fix to tractor beams should be that smaller ships have weaker holds on larger ships and larger ships should be stronger against smaller ones. This would make pets, in theory, just a slight turn rate debuff and that seems good to me. Jam Sensors as a counter to Tractor made sense because it cost the user an ability slot. These passive hard counters, placates, and innate set bonuses are silly.

    Aside from another shot at Sci, it's also taking more control out of the hands of the player, leaving it to the game and chance. Bleh. I want to play the game myself.
    __________________________________________
    Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
    It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
    May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
  • lostusthornlostusthorn Member Posts: 844
    edited December 2012
    I'm all for it. The game has way to many holds and disables as it is. Everything that gets me away is a good change.
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I'm all for it. The game has way to many holds and disables as it is. Everything that gets me away is a good change.

    except it doesnt fix that issue of holds and disables.

    everyone says this is great because it stops tractor beams and assume itll stop the runabouts.

    it doesnt unless you crit hit the runabouts, their tractor beams will continue to hold.

    this is majorly a player issue, why should science suffer an additional nerf from a passive everyone has the option to take?
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Except that is isn't a change. Jam Targetting Sensors works the same.

    and as was pointed out is fine because its balanced in that its a player skill that he gets to pick when its activated, ie you take this science skill you probably wont have another science skill.

    its not an auto block like the rommie skill is, all you have to do is shoot the target and POOF you disapear from their sights and target lock when you crit.

    jam sensors is nothing like that.

    also, thanks for pointing out another counter that is available in addition to polarize hull and attack pattern omega to counter tractor beams.

    thats 3! skills already in the game that counter it.

    jam sensors counters tachyon beam too, but so does getting out of its arc.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I'm all for it. The game has way to many holds and disables as it is. Everything that gets me away is a good change.


    Yes, just remove science from the game.. in fact, lets take cruisers too.. lets make all this about Escort.. even better, lets call this game Star Trek Jemmys Online.
    __________________________________________________

    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
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  • brandonflbrandonfl Member Posts: 892
    edited December 2012
    maicake716 wrote: »
    and as was pointed out is fine because its balanced in that its a player skill that he gets to pick when its activated, ie you take this science skill you probably wont have another science skill.

    its not an auto block like the rommie skill is, all you have to do is shoot the target and POOF you disapear from their sights and target lock when you crit.

    jam sensors is nothing like that.

    also, thanks for pointing out another counter that is available in addition to polarize hull and attack pattern omega to counter tractor beams.

    thats 3! skills already in the game that counter it.

    jam sensors counters tachyon beam too, but so does getting out of its arc.

    Don't forget PSW, that breaks tractor beams too.
    LOLSTO
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Hm... but isn't the placate supposed to be work like a placate? I mean, is is meant to be useful, right? And with the 12 second immunity implemented, it should not be that much of an issue... after all, all you could do when tractored is attacking the tractor beamer wildly, hoping for a crit that hopefully triggers a placate... actually I can see nice gaming experiences come from this.

    and if it onyl effected tractor beams it wouldnt be that "big a deal" but there are other powers it effects as well.

    if you want a free "remove tractor from me power" then just name it that and get it over with (thats directed at cryptic)

    i dont know about you, but i see more crits now because of the consoels that boost the chance then i have ever seen before.

    why should science be so drastically effect YET AGAIN and the other classes not?
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    brandonfl wrote: »
    Don't forget PSW, that breaks tractor beams too.

    thats another! and the shockwave torp...

    wow... it sounds like there are a TON of counters to player tractor beams...

    -sighs-
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • brandonflbrandonfl Member Posts: 892
    edited December 2012
    so the list of TB counters is:

    Rommie Placate
    KHG Placate
    Jam Sensors
    Polarize Hull
    APO
    PSW
    Shockwave Torps
    Trics
    Evasive beyond 5km or use ICC (requires no more than 50 or so engine power to accomplish against TB1, I can't confirm the minimum engine power required to do this since I sit at 51/25 on my sci builds)

    That sounds like a ton of counters to me.
    LOLSTO
  • edited December 2012
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    It is a placate. Breaking tractor beams is part of what placates do. It is the deal when you choose it over the shield heal (which I still feel is superior).



    Well, look at the tier 5 Romulan Rep ability. You cannot really say that science was neglected in Season 7.

    thats why i propose to change the place to a "retarget" proc

    and yes... oh boy... 100+ every TEN minutes... way to show love there...
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I still want to know if it is just a CD on the passive's placate or if some random placate is granting a 12s immunity to all placates.

    You're the healer, you want to plac the guy trying to kill you - you can't. The DPS guy keeps randomly placating the guy and creating the immunity. The guy's free to keep shooting you.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I'm all for counters to danube spam but this isn't one and you all should know it. They chain the TBs so you would have to crit each one individually. This actually encourages danube use and discourages player TB. Do not want.
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Well, look at the tier 5 Romulan Rep ability. You cannot really say that science was neglected in Season 7.
    The tier 5 Romulan Rep is IMO the biggest kick in the nads to Sci/Sci to come along since sub-nuc doffs. Now an escort can get the equivalent of what, 4 of every sci console on demand? Neglect would have been preferable because I have never felt that 10 min cd would stick once people hit Tier 5 and started complaining.

    I'll bet the ground heal gets quicker and loses the disable as well, but that's just me. Were I truly cynical I would take bets about whether TI affects both...
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Thing with the Tractor is - you can change targets and it will still run. So even if you get hit with a plac, it shouldn't break the Tractor to be honest. A placate shouldn't break tractor - or - you shouldn't be able to change targets and keep the tractor going.
  • edited December 2012
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    I doubt that such a drastic change to the nature of the passive is likely to happen.



    I can see evil surprises going on here with FBP, PSW, Energy Siphon, TR, even CPB.

    dont forget that eject warp plasma is also effected, that will make it that more insane..





    im not asking all passives, just the romulan one. and it needs to be done because cryptic really didnt think this through.

    -sighs- if only they actually... tested stuff before releaseing it...
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    maicake716 wrote: »
    dont forget that eject warp plasma is also effected, that will make it that more insane..
    Shhh... quiet before drunk hears you!
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    redricky wrote: »
    Shhh... quiet before drunk hears you!

    Heh, he's already talked about it - add in the [Pla] Embassy Particle consoles - the Rom 2pc - and yeah, he's going to make the Universe burn...

    ...didn't you know, that his character's the main villain in the new Star Trek movie? :)
  • stealthriderstealthrider Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The worst part about the placate passive(s)?

    Jam Sensors is becoming worse and worse as a power choice.
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    brandonfl wrote: »
    so the list of TB counters is:

    Rommie Placate
    KHG Placate
    Jam Sensors
    Polarize Hull
    APO
    PSW
    Shockwave Torps
    Trics
    Evasive beyond 5km or use ICC (requires no more than 50 or so engine power to accomplish against TB1, I can't confirm the minimum engine power required to do this since I sit at 51/25 on my sci builds)

    That sounds like a ton of counters to me.

    High Aux TBR, Jump Console, preemptive scramble, target aux, iirc losing line of sight around a large object, teammate killing the pet/pilot applying the TB assuming you can't since mostly the pilot using TB has lowered its speed/defenses to shoot you, while Aux2damp doesn't counter the hold it does give a speed boost, switching power to full engines, using Eng Batt, Omega speed/turn/inertia proc isn't a hard counter though it can be used w/switching Eng power to get the extra boost to get away, tbing them back and using previously mention engine boosts and piloting.

    I know w/the KHG placate a work around is to TB a target then shoot at another. What I don't know about the rep system placate is if you TB a target, then shoot another target, then the 1st target shoots and placates you what happens since you no longer have it targeted?
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
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