"Number One. I just found this PADD. It must have fallen behind the replicator at some point. Can you tell me what this log means?"
"Hmm. Well, Captain. It seems that a few years ago we discovered definite proof the Iconians were behind the Undine infiltration and if we acted upon it we could have probably convinced them to leave so we could work on ending all of our wars."
"Dear lord! Why didn't we do so!?"
"I believe we were too busy breeding Romulan space rabbits, sir."
..........
Just saying, Cryptic. Something needs to be un-ignored...
To be fair, it doesn't seem like the Undine are really up to anything these days. All the most recent content has been about the Borg, Dominion, Romulans/Remans, and Tholans.
Seems to me that the Undine are pretty much done masquerading and infiltrating.
"Number One. I just found this PADD. It must have fallen behind the replicator at some point. Can you tell me what this log means?"
"Hmm. Well, Captain. It seems that a few years ago we discovered definite proof the Iconians were behind the Undine infiltration and if we acted upon it we could have probably convinced them to leave so we could work on ending all of our wars."
"Dear lord! Why didn't we do so!?"
"I believe we were too busy breeding Romulan space rabbits, sir."
In game-time, Cloaked Intentions only took place a month or two ago. Presumably the same is true of the Undine storyline as well.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
To be fair, it doesn't seem like the Undine are really up to anything these days. All the most recent content has been about the Borg, Dominion, Romulans/Remans, and Tholans.
Seems to me that the Undine are pretty much done masquerading and infiltrating.
Didn't the article in Star Trek magazine say that Data ended the Undine war?
Now, that brings up a different issue, which is that we have to keep relying on relatively obscure sources for our lore updates, like daily "datalog" missions, cryptic dev blogs for lockbox ships, and magazine articles.
But I'm pretty sure the Undine plot is mostly considered to be over now.
You folks assume that this game is trying to tell a story that makes sense. It is not. It doesn't care. If they thought that you'd like to earn dilithium or buy zen by farming papa smurfs, they'd go for it, even if papa smurfs were a mortal enemy of farming, according to a previous Cryptic mission.
At some point, just stop trying to rationalize this game that has no rationale.
Dan Stahl himself couldn't explain the plot of this game. If he'd like to try, go ahead. It will just make heads spin and lots of "WTFs?"
Didn't the article in Star Trek magazine say that Data ended the Undine war?
Now, that brings up a different issue, which is that we have to keep relying on relatively obscure sources for our lore updates, like daily "datalog" missions, cryptic dev blogs for lockbox ships, and magazine articles.
But I'm pretty sure the Undine plot is mostly considered to be over now.
That's pretty lame, if so. They can't just have some esoteric update in a magazine. There needs to be an actual mission in-game that caps it off.
Last we knew the Undine still didn't like us, and there was something with the Iconians provoking them, and now it's just over? That's hard for me to believe, even with the small weight story gets in STO.
I think we might be seeing some sort of writing direction emerging as soon? as S8 one of the more recent Additions to the staff was Sean mccann who was one of the lead story arc writers for the Dearly departed City of heroes. I think his "Redname" is Commander Anders
You folks assume that this game is trying to tell a story that makes sense. It is not. It doesn't care. If they thought that you'd like to earn dilithium or buy zen by farming papa smurfs, they'd go for it, even if papa smurfs were a mortal enemy of farming, according to a previous Cryptic mission.
At some point, just stop trying to rationalize this game that has no rationale.
Dan Stahl himself couldn't explain the plot of this game. If he'd like to try, go ahead. It will just make heads spin and lots of "WTFs?"
Hard to believe he wouldn't know when STO could be summed up as "The New Century of Adventure, where the Federation and the Klingon Empire struggle against old and new threats.
STO's storylines are good, just that there isn't things really presenting the overall story and how the bits and pieces are put together. Like the war with the KDF and the sudden end of hostilies. As far as we know it was "oh Borg attacking, lets be friends again". But the presentation was weak. Even worse with the KDF and the Romulans, they were conquoring Romulan Space and suddenly it's not anything happened and "lets be friends".
"Admiral, I have the follow up reports from Starfleet Command you asked for."
"Oh?"
"Captain Data ended the Undine threat. A few months ago."
"Why weren't we notified of this?"
"Starfleet claims they were busy looking for the remaining Undine infiltrators. There were none. Nor were there any in the Klingon Empire. It was a gambit to get us to follow our own worst instincts."
"Devilish!"
"Indeed. Also they have informed us that Captain Sisko returned and brought peace to Beta Ursae."
I'm not quite sure we'll see undines in season 8. I'm not even sure we'll see new regular episodes anytime soon. They're too busy having fun with rep systems, which is legitimate, dreaming about an uneeded territory control gameplay, or just fantasizing about some kdf episodes they love to delay season after season.
What we currently know about season 8 just sounds horrible to me: pvp. Even if i like that it looks like the big update season 8 is about. I know it can drive new ship sales and dilithium stuff, but i'm eagerly waiting about the pathetic "story elements" we'll see to support this wonderous new reputation system everyone is just thrilled about!
You folks assume that this game is trying to tell a story that makes sense. It is not. It doesn't care. If they thought that you'd like to earn dilithium or buy zen by farming papa smurfs, they'd go for it, even if papa smurfs were a mortal enemy of farming, according to a previous Cryptic mission.
At some point, just stop trying to rationalize this game that has no rationale.
Dan Stahl himself couldn't explain the plot of this game. If he'd like to try, go ahead. It will just make heads spin and lots of "WTFs?"
lmao, I couldn't agree more.
Seriously, can anyone explain the fascination with some random pixels with a voice-over especially when it's not canon?
I have no idea where you are going with that, at all. The midget from twin peaks makes more sense than you do.
Anyway I did have games where I cared about the story when it had an impact on the gameplay, when there was something I had to know to make a decision but overall playing a game is exactly superior in YOU being the story.
That's the fundamental element, the essence of a game. You don't listen to a story or read it or watch it you become it.
If you want compelling characters go read a book or send me a team invite, I will give you something to write home about
I'd love to see more of the Iconians and the Undine.
Right now the Tholians have become the major bad guys in the game due to their involvement with New Romulus, and perhaps with their ongoing efforts to steal technology it may be setting the scene for some actual episodes - where you try to stop a Tholian invasion or something. It was hinted in that tier 4 mission that if need be the Tholians would be prepared to attack.
It is also evident that New Romulus' old occupants dabbled in Iconian tech, and adapted it for their needs. So yet more hints about the Iconians and maybe, finally we'll actually run into them - what would be cool is the Iconian equivalent of STF's or Task Force Omega.
And the Undine, I can't recall but I think it was hinted that a peaceful resolution may be available so a few missions to polish that off would be good. Or perhaps when the Iconians decide to show themselves they do so via fluidic space - Undine is attacked and needs our help or some such.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is there are things Cryptic can do to progress the plot, and make it semi-plausible. Shame we'll never see it, as many have already said Cryptic is only focused on 'flavour of the month' content with a price tag for good measure.
So if PVP is the big update for S8, here is what I'd expect at this point:
Fed v. Fed, with almost no explanation why we are now fighting ourselves. Maybe it will be passed off as "Cooperatively Run Undine Defensive Exercises." Our ships will explode as we fight each other in CRUDEs.
But, who cares when you can test a new starship build? Plus, maybe if you're flying your Tholian, Cardassian, or other non-Starfleet vessel, you can role-play in this Fed v. Fed PVP.
Isn't that kind of like what Gozer was going to do with PVP a long time ago, meaning quite recently in Cryptic terms?
You folks assume that this game is trying to tell a story that makes sense. It is not. It doesn't care. If they thought that you'd like to earn dilithium or buy zen by farming papa smurfs, they'd go for it, even if papa smurfs were a mortal enemy of farming, according to a previous Cryptic mission.
At some point, just stop trying to rationalize this game that has no rationale.
Dan Stahl himself couldn't explain the plot of this game. If he'd like to try, go ahead. It will just make heads spin and lots of "WTFs?"
I have to agree with Kirksplat. The only story line in this game is the one on the way to the register.
Hard to believe he wouldn't know when STO could be summed up as "The New Century of Adventure, where the Federation and the Klingon Empire struggle against old and new threats.
STO's storylines are good, just that there isn't things really presenting the overall story and how the bits and pieces are put together. Like the war with the KDF and the sudden end of hostilies. As far as we know it was "oh Borg attacking, lets be friends again". But the presentation was weak. Even worse with the KDF and the Romulans, they were conquoring Romulan Space and suddenly it's not anything happened and "lets be friends".
So Cryptic needs to fill those cracks.
and this is the other side of the penny. What stories we do have are left unfinished and often for the simple reason the game is chasing revenue over anything else to its on detriment.
I wonder how many players actually go to New Romulus and help the Romulans while still fighting Romulans on the Romulan front. NR is 50, I know. But, given all the paths of advancement, especially the doff system, I wonder.
I wonder how many players actually go to New Romulus and help the Romulans while still fighting Romulans on the Romulan front. NR is 50, I know. But, given all the paths of advancement, especially the doff system, I wonder.
I've been wondering that too. Maybe New Romulus should have an additional prerequisite: the player must have completed the Romulan Front on at least one character.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
I've been wondering that too. Maybe New Romulus should have an additional prerequisite: the player must have completed the Romulan Front on at least one character.
I have to agree with Kirksplat. The only story line in this game is the one on the way to the register.
Thing is: there are ways to do that well and ways to do that poorly.
A theme park ride can be one of those "horse ride for a quarter" things you see at grocery stores... and despite a lot of hard work, STO can feel that way sometimes.
OR... a theme park ride can be something like the old Back to the Future ride at Universal Studios, where you have Christopher Lloyd sending you a video message about stopping Biff while you stand in line and then you hop into a multi-passenger DeLoreon, with lights, sound, air flow, and motion as you're greeted with an IMAX screen and even get to vote on one leg of the trip.
I got no problem with a theme park but I think a theme park should be an excuse to have a more coherent story than a sandbox game can have. And if you don't use that opportunity as a development house (and I think Kestrel and Stahl and Heinig have tried to but experienced pushback) then you risk giving the theme park approach a black eye.
S8 is a marked improvement. But I want to see fewer dangling threads and more cohesive plotlines going forward, especially the ones that aren't tied to the Romulans or Iconians getting proper treatment.
Anybody else read the Path to 2409 datalogs? That stuff is like 60% Romulan. Sometimes, I think Kestrel's vision has been for Romulus Online and everything else is more of a footnote, which made the story outside of that much more utilitarian, serving the needs of the systems teams. I'm almost inclined to think each of the major empires should have a content designer who acts as a specialist on their lore, which would free up a lot of the design flow and create more dialogue between writers. I think team writing tends to be ideal for big stories.
Y'Know, make Kestrel the point on Romulan, Terran Empire, and Iconian lore. Make Charles Gray the point guy for Klingons, Borg, Undine, and the Hirogen. Have Heinig be point on Federation, Ferengi, Dominion, Cardassian, and species of the week lore.
I think putting the lore responsibility on one person tends to make the lore perspective "one voice among many" whereas splitting it up tends to diffuse the influence of lore more evenly through the game... and you can get your lore heads to actually argue out choices regarding how the factions relate.
Y'Know, so when somebody says "The Klingons will be helping out on New Romulus," instead of a pat explanation to justify it, you have two people argue out a compromise that justifies it.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Comments
Seems to me that the Undine are pretty much done masquerading and infiltrating.
In game-time, Cloaked Intentions only took place a month or two ago. Presumably the same is true of the Undine storyline as well.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Didn't the article in Star Trek magazine say that Data ended the Undine war?
Now, that brings up a different issue, which is that we have to keep relying on relatively obscure sources for our lore updates, like daily "datalog" missions, cryptic dev blogs for lockbox ships, and magazine articles.
But I'm pretty sure the Undine plot is mostly considered to be over now.
At some point, just stop trying to rationalize this game that has no rationale.
Dan Stahl himself couldn't explain the plot of this game. If he'd like to try, go ahead. It will just make heads spin and lots of "WTFs?"
That's pretty lame, if so. They can't just have some esoteric update in a magazine. There needs to be an actual mission in-game that caps it off.
Last we knew the Undine still didn't like us, and there was something with the Iconians provoking them, and now it's just over? That's hard for me to believe, even with the small weight story gets in STO.
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
"Thanks for all your hard work, Admiral. Will you be there when Data gets his medals?"
Hard to believe he wouldn't know when STO could be summed up as "The New Century of Adventure, where the Federation and the Klingon Empire struggle against old and new threats.
STO's storylines are good, just that there isn't things really presenting the overall story and how the bits and pieces are put together. Like the war with the KDF and the sudden end of hostilies. As far as we know it was "oh Borg attacking, lets be friends again". But the presentation was weak. Even worse with the KDF and the Romulans, they were conquoring Romulan Space and suddenly it's not anything happened and "lets be friends".
So Cryptic needs to fill those cracks.
"Enter"
"Admiral, I have the follow up reports from Starfleet Command you asked for."
"Oh?"
"Captain Data ended the Undine threat. A few months ago."
"Why weren't we notified of this?"
"Starfleet claims they were busy looking for the remaining Undine infiltrators. There were none. Nor were there any in the Klingon Empire. It was a gambit to get us to follow our own worst instincts."
"Devilish!"
"Indeed. Also they have informed us that Captain Sisko returned and brought peace to Beta Ursae."
"What!?"
"And the Borg and Iconians destroyed each other."
"What!? What!? What!? What does this mean?"
"More Romulan space rabbits for us, sir."
What we currently know about season 8 just sounds horrible to me: pvp. Even if i like that it looks like the big update season 8 is about. I know it can drive new ship sales and dilithium stuff, but i'm eagerly waiting about the pathetic "story elements" we'll see to support this wonderous new reputation system everyone is just thrilled about!
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
lmao, I couldn't agree more.
Seriously, can anyone explain the fascination with some random pixels with a voice-over especially when it's not canon?
Played any Facebook games lately ?
The Womulan Space Wabbits are for them hard core gamers ... .
Anyway I did have games where I cared about the story when it had an impact on the gameplay, when there was something I had to know to make a decision but overall playing a game is exactly superior in YOU being the story.
That's the fundamental element, the essence of a game. You don't listen to a story or read it or watch it you become it.
If you want compelling characters go read a book or send me a team invite, I will give you something to write home about
Right now the Tholians have become the major bad guys in the game due to their involvement with New Romulus, and perhaps with their ongoing efforts to steal technology it may be setting the scene for some actual episodes - where you try to stop a Tholian invasion or something. It was hinted in that tier 4 mission that if need be the Tholians would be prepared to attack.
It is also evident that New Romulus' old occupants dabbled in Iconian tech, and adapted it for their needs. So yet more hints about the Iconians and maybe, finally we'll actually run into them - what would be cool is the Iconian equivalent of STF's or Task Force Omega.
And the Undine, I can't recall but I think it was hinted that a peaceful resolution may be available so a few missions to polish that off would be good. Or perhaps when the Iconians decide to show themselves they do so via fluidic space - Undine is attacked and needs our help or some such.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is there are things Cryptic can do to progress the plot, and make it semi-plausible. Shame we'll never see it, as many have already said Cryptic is only focused on 'flavour of the month' content with a price tag for good measure.
Fed v. Fed, with almost no explanation why we are now fighting ourselves. Maybe it will be passed off as "Cooperatively Run Undine Defensive Exercises." Our ships will explode as we fight each other in CRUDEs.
But, who cares when you can test a new starship build? Plus, maybe if you're flying your Tholian, Cardassian, or other non-Starfleet vessel, you can role-play in this Fed v. Fed PVP.
Isn't that kind of like what Gozer was going to do with PVP a long time ago, meaning quite recently in Cryptic terms?
I have to agree with Kirksplat. The only story line in this game is the one on the way to the register.
R.I.P
and this is the other side of the penny. What stories we do have are left unfinished and often for the simple reason the game is chasing revenue over anything else to its on detriment.
R.I.P
'nuf said
I've been wondering that too. Maybe New Romulus should have an additional prerequisite: the player must have completed the Romulan Front on at least one character.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Generally you're not fighting the same Romulans.
Thing is: there are ways to do that well and ways to do that poorly.
A theme park ride can be one of those "horse ride for a quarter" things you see at grocery stores... and despite a lot of hard work, STO can feel that way sometimes.
OR... a theme park ride can be something like the old Back to the Future ride at Universal Studios, where you have Christopher Lloyd sending you a video message about stopping Biff while you stand in line and then you hop into a multi-passenger DeLoreon, with lights, sound, air flow, and motion as you're greeted with an IMAX screen and even get to vote on one leg of the trip.
I got no problem with a theme park but I think a theme park should be an excuse to have a more coherent story than a sandbox game can have. And if you don't use that opportunity as a development house (and I think Kestrel and Stahl and Heinig have tried to but experienced pushback) then you risk giving the theme park approach a black eye.
S8 is a marked improvement. But I want to see fewer dangling threads and more cohesive plotlines going forward, especially the ones that aren't tied to the Romulans or Iconians getting proper treatment.
Anybody else read the Path to 2409 datalogs? That stuff is like 60% Romulan. Sometimes, I think Kestrel's vision has been for Romulus Online and everything else is more of a footnote, which made the story outside of that much more utilitarian, serving the needs of the systems teams. I'm almost inclined to think each of the major empires should have a content designer who acts as a specialist on their lore, which would free up a lot of the design flow and create more dialogue between writers. I think team writing tends to be ideal for big stories.
Y'Know, make Kestrel the point on Romulan, Terran Empire, and Iconian lore. Make Charles Gray the point guy for Klingons, Borg, Undine, and the Hirogen. Have Heinig be point on Federation, Ferengi, Dominion, Cardassian, and species of the week lore.
I think putting the lore responsibility on one person tends to make the lore perspective "one voice among many" whereas splitting it up tends to diffuse the influence of lore more evenly through the game... and you can get your lore heads to actually argue out choices regarding how the factions relate.
Y'Know, so when somebody says "The Klingons will be helping out on New Romulus," instead of a pat explanation to justify it, you have two people argue out a compromise that justifies it.
Yeah, but chronologically the New Romulus stuff doesn't happen until after Sela disappears in "Cutting the Cord".
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
There are a few "chronological" issues in the game.
My favorite is still being thanked for helping somebody previously that I had not met yet...