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Why PVP-Bootcamp, while the que's are filled with afk'ers?

admiraljelleadmiraljelle Member Posts: 14 Arc User
edited December 2012 in PvP Gameplay
4 pvp matches on a row this morning only filled with afk'ers doing nothing. My god that made me angry. And this was in a capnhold. Because i dont do arena's anymore because of this reason. And STO actually want to do BootCamp???

Im writing this to vent my frustration i geuss. Dont actually know how to solve this problem??
Well i have maybe a suggestion:

Remove rewards from arena's.
Modify capnholds... make players actually work for their rewards. Capping a point give's 5 dil to all players who capped it or something like that.

We need a 3rd pvp variant for the que's.
Maybe something like: escort the freither, where players need to escort a ship safely from a to b. But ship can be destroyed by other team who also need to escort their ship and vice versa. Make it 3v3 where players actually have to win for their rewards. Safely escort the ship and destroy other teams ship. A draw: both freithers still intact, means no rewards.

ty for venting my frustration
Post edited by admiraljelle on

Comments

  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    We could somehow rig things so afks respawn automatically and then we could have easy kills for newbies
    Live long and Prosper
  • admiraljelleadmiraljelle Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    We could somehow rig things so afks respawn automatically and then we could have easy kills for newbies

    is this a usefull comment?
  • bubblygumsworthbubblygumsworth Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The whole point of boot camp is to promote PvP so the queues are actually filled with people who want to fight. In my opinion the more attention that PvP gets could be the thing that grabs the developers attention. PvP Boot Camp could be the first stepping stone towards a new and better PvP system. If you PvP then you should be supporting the boot camp idea (boot camp was created by players for players, cryptic is only helping to promote it).

    An automatic respawn timer would be a good idea though. AFKers TRIBBLE me off too, but for now all we can do is just report all AFKers to the GM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I drink, I vote, and I PvP!
  • admiraljelleadmiraljelle Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    ty for your reply bubbly...
    i finally make my way to the forums to give some input and this ******* says im moaning. Jeesh thx alot i only hope the developers think im not moining and they appricaiate my input..
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    ideally itll encourge private 5v5 matches among the boot campers as well. why go out into the que's when we have over 300 people willing to boot camp it up?
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    ty for your reply bubbly...
    i finally make my way to the forums to give some input and this ******* says im moaning. Jeesh thx alot i only hope the developers think im not moining and they appricaiate my input..

    Hey I made a suggestion a HELPFUL one and you went attack targ on me

    so lets have less swearing
    Live long and Prosper
  • admiraljelleadmiraljelle Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Hey I made a suggestion a HELPFUL one
    yea well we disagree on this 1
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Yes and you are wrong

    if AFKers auto respawned they could be targeted and terminated thus allowing the match to END

    some situations can end in stalemate because one side is ALL AFK or cloaked or left

    I know you prefer take and hold
    But pvp is DEAD and its going to stay dead until people stop moaning and start coming up with solutions

    AFKERS are a majority at some times of day
    Live long and Prosper
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Yes and you are wrong

    if AFKers auto respawned they could be targeted and terminated thus allowing the match to END

    some situations can end in stalemate because one side is ALL AFK or cloaked or left

    I know you prefer take and hold
    But pvp is DEAD and its going to stay dead until people stop moaning and start coming up with solutions

    AFKERS are a majority at some times of day

    we can come up with all the "solutions" we want. it doesnt mean or do anything. there have been hundreds of good ideas on how to handle this since the game came out and even more so when dilithium was added.

    cryptic hasnt done anything about it.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    A good start would be to Remove rewards from pvp and replace it with staking

    so you put up 2000 of your own dilith against the enemies 2000

    loser Loses winner wins
    Live long and Prosper
  • decker03decker03 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    A good start would be to Remove rewards from pvp and replace it with staking

    so you put up 2000 of your own dilith against the enemies 2000

    loser Loses winner wins

    "How to finally kill PvP" by Trollvax.

    Yeah this will of course not lead to premades farming pugs and as a result even less people queing.

    decker999
    Join Date: Aug 2010
  • bghostbghost Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    that's a horrible idea
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    decker03 wrote: »
    "How to finally kill PvP" by Trollvax.

    Yeah this will of course not lead to premades farming pugs and as a result even less people queing.

    No as "pugs" will no longer exist
    and "farming" will be idiot vrs idiot
    Live long and Prosper
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Go ahead, feed the trollvax!

    on the topic: i cannot see PVP gaining anything without a thought through reward system and ranking system that actually promotes winning and getting better...and i doubt cryptic will come up with something that will basically exclude the random sto player from achieving anything.
    PVP can't be a grind fest that favours the unskilled or even the AFKers, but i doubt PWE/cryptic will come up with something that is not a grindfest.

    Until there is nothing that really ignites the will in a majority of sto players to do PVP on a regular basis and really make them feel to improve, PVP will be something for dedicated people and teams only.
    A rank system for instance that teams you with people aproximately on your rank would be great to start off a new player in PVP, but the participation is just too low to do that.

    So in my opinion, only the devs can save PVP, the players can only keep it on "life support" in the meantime.
    what it needs to be healthy: Compelling rewards that make it worthwile and a ranking system that form groups of similar skills and rank.

    so many good PVP mmos out there to take ideas from. if you can't come up with something good on your own, steel something.
    Go pro or go home
  • admiraljelleadmiraljelle Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    decker03 wrote: »
    "How to finally kill PvP" by Trollvax.

    Yeah this will of course not lead to premades farming pugs and as a result even less people queing.

    i actually like this idea this is good input buddy :)

    edit: quoted the wrong person dont know how to remove this message
  • admiraljelleadmiraljelle Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    A good start would be to Remove rewards from pvp and replace it with staking

    so you put up 2000 of your own dilith against the enemies 2000

    loser Loses winner wins

    i actually like this idea good input buddy :)
  • edited December 2012
    This content has been removed.
  • wolfpack12cwolfpack12c Member Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I have an honest answer

    How about we make it so you have to deal some sort of damage within 5 min or issue some sort of heal to a player. It would make it so the players that don't respwn get booted

    Or do what the have is some player made Starcraft games.
    After 30 sec of nothing a message pops up
    is inactive (vote to kick)
    On top of that there is a 2 hour or 1 hour block on that player Qing for anything at all

    I honestly think that would help it makes it so there is no way to abuse it and it makes it so you don't have to deal with grifters
    -"There is no such thing as an I win button!" "Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    As long as there are shiny sticker rewards for showing up - there will be people that do nothing.

    There have been countless suggestions, but they all have faults. They all ignore that as long as there are shiny sticker rewards for showing up - there will be people that do nothing.

    Cryptic's actually implemented a working system for PvP. The problem is they're only using it in one place.

    You see, there's this little PvP race. You gather at the start (queue) and run the race (do something) so you can get your reward. If you just stand at the start (do nothing) you get no reward.

    Amazing, eh? So simple, no?

    Yet completely missing from Arenas, Cap 'n Hold, as well as Ker'rat. Course, it's not just Cryptic. Countless games with PvP offer the shiny sticker rewards without requiring anybody do anything. Many of them have tried various things to get around the AFKers - but they all have their faults.

    But yeah, if Cryptic were to look at their snowball race...go geewhizbang...they could fix the AFK issue in the rest of PvP...

    ...but yeah, that's not going to happen.
  • stevehalestevehale Member Posts: 437
    edited December 2012
    Forcing AFKers to respawn might end the match quicker but it doesn't solve anything. Assuming there is actually a situation in which an entire team refuses to respawn, wouldn't it be better to simply leave that match and queue up again knowing that those AFKers are jacked up in a match that won't end? It certainly won't reward them by getting the match over with more quickly (like forced respawning would do).

    Besides, it isn't common for AFKers to load up on one side. With any luck you only get one, maybe two, before the other three decide to quit because of the frustration.

    Any potential solution does have the potential to create other problems. A vote kick system needs safe guards to avoid griefing. Basing participation on damage or healing can be exploited by suicide farmers. Removing rewards from PvP, or awarding only the winning team, is going to drive even legitimate players away.

    Maybe a combination of these things and others could help. We need to make the payout less appealing for people who don't try without making PvP unappealing for those who try but struggle. We need to award trying for the fun of it without encouraging people to gravitate towards to most broken mechanics at any given time. PvP must be accessible, fun, and rewarding.

    Drastically increase the gap between winning payouts and losing payouts per match.
    - Maybe something between 240 and 60 Dilithium

    Drastically increase the gap between winning and losing payouts per daily mission.
    - Maybe something between 960 and 480 Dilithium - This is a reduction until you count the dilithium add to each match

    Alter the PvP wrapper missions so that they award you for 3/3 wins across any of the 3 PvP types (Arena, Cap and Hold, Warzone).
    - 960 Dilithium for 3/3 wins

    Add a queue for Premade/Pugmade PvP with additional rewards for winning
    - 480 Dilithium per win, 120 Dilithium per loss
    - 100 Feet Marks per win, 25 Fleet Marks per loss
    - This might split the player base a bit, but also encourages fleet/team play while relieving some of the pressure on new players and PuGs (potentially the revived focus on competition and reduced likely hood of Premade PuG stomping could increase participation in PvP overall).

    Of course none of this does anything to actually stop every AFKer. Whatever the case, this should certainly encourage people to try while disincentivizing farming by making the rewards at least a little less rewarding.
    __________________________________________
    Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
    It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
    May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    ty for your reply bubbly...
    i finally make my way to the forums to give some input and this ******* says im moaning. Jeesh thx alot i only hope the developers think im not moining and they appricaiate my input..

    Just ignore Solvax, i do.

    If the PVP Boot Camp gets one person to support his/her team when they would otherwise be AFK, i'd say it was worthwhile. I'd like to think if the camp goes well, Cryptic might get off their arses and give us the PVP we deserve.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
  • dravenleeobarr1dravenleeobarr1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Response to OP is two-fold:

    1.) Like it has been said before, the premise behind the boot camp it to raise awareness about PvP, and to give new PvPers the basics to use in PvP, and to also help novice PvPers learn something new to help enhance their PvP experience. Does going through Boot Camp mean that once it is over, you will be an elite PvPer? No, but it will give you the building blocks to LEARN about the overall PvP experience and the want/desire to get better so that you can, little by little, become better at the art of STO PvP.

    2.) AFKers and Farmers do nothing but further my desire for a "Vote to Kick" button. YES, Cryptic, it can be abused....but at this time, the rewards far out-weigh the detriment of having said button. Leave the reward in for the player who goes in and gives his all, and take the rewards away from the farmers.

    The worst that can happen is farmers will now have to take an active role in their farming techniques, rather than starting a BOT that will join a match and just sit there. If a team sees that one of their teammates is just sitting and not doing anything to contribute, then they kick said afker/farmer with the understanding that they will not be getting a new teammate to help them out, but will have to rely on a 4v5 setup. I, for one, would gladly take a loss in a match to know that a farmer/afker won't benefit from my loss.

    This is my opinion only, but if you take the football away from someone enough times, then eventually, they won't want to play the game (accept for Charlie Brown, but he is a TRIBBLE.) The quick/dirty solution is to implement a "Vote to Kick" button, IMO.
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