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Killing cruisers with Tier IV reputation shield passives

majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
edited December 2012 in PvP Gameplay
I was in capture and hold today in a FvF and went up against a fleet Star Cruiser that had almost impenetrable shields. I buffed my Alpha strike and dropped the facing shield (Beam Overload III). However, the shields immediately rebounded and they were at 20% in the two seconds it took my quantum torpedo high yield salvo to reach the target. The cruiser then simply popped tactical team and emergency power to the shields. The cruiser made no efforts to destroy me, so I parked 1km away from the cruiser's aft shields and hammered on them with my dual heavy cannons.

After a full minute of this, I still didn't even dent them. The engineering captain simply rotated tactical team I, emergency power to the shields I, and transfer shield strength II. One of my teamates, a Jem'hadar attack ship running a full cannon build, parked along side of my ship and we focused fire on the cruiser. It didn't even scratch the shields. After three minutes of this a second teammate showed up in a fleet defiant and also focused fire on the aft shield of the cruiser. At this point we managed to get the aft shield to 50-75%, but the cruiser simply used innate engineering heals and RSP every so often with the existing heals. The only time we actually dealt hull damage was during the brief 2 seconds my phaser weapons procced his shield. (We got him down to 12% hull before the shields came back up).

Ten minutes of focus fire and still no signs of even cracking the hull. At the end of the match I complimented the player on his shield tanking and asked him how he did it. He said that he had picked both shield heals in the reputation system and that the omega shield heal actually activates every second rather than every 6 seconds. That's roughly 1,500 shields every second. Other than going to an all transphasic torpedo boat, is there any way to beat this level of tanking?
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Post edited by majortiraomega on

Comments

  • oridjerraaoridjerraa Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I was in capture and hold today in a FvF and went up against a fleet Star Cruiser that had almost impenetrable shields. I buffed my Alpha strike and dropped the facing shield (Beam Overload III). However, the shields immediately rebounded and they were at 20% in the two seconds it took my quantum torpedo high yield salvo to reach the target. The cruiser then simply popped tactical team and emergency power to the shields. The cruiser made no efforts to destroy me, so I parked 1km away from the cruiser's aft shields and hammered on them with my dual heavy cannons.

    After a full minute of this, I still didn't even dent them. The engineering captain simply rotated tactical team I, emergency power to the shields I, and transfer shield strength II. One of my teamates, a Jem'hadar attack ship running a full cannon build, parked along side of my ship and we focused fire on the cruiser. It didn't even scratch the shields. After three minutes of this a second teammate showed up in a fleet defiant and also focused fire on the aft shield of the cruiser. At this point we managed to get the aft shield to 50-75%, but the cruiser simply used innate engineering heals and RSP every so often with the existing heals. The only time we actually dealt hull damage was during the brief 2 seconds my phaser weapons procced his shield. (We got him down to 12% hull before the shields came back up).

    Ten minutes of focus fire and still no signs of even cracking the hull. At the end of the match I complimented the player on his shield tanking and asked him how he did it. He said that he had picked both shield heals in the reputation system and that the omega shield heal actually activates every second rather than every 6 seconds. That's roughly 1,500 shields every second. Other than going to an all transphasic torpedo boat, is there any way to beat this level of tanking?


    Sorry man, I simply do not believe you. A star cruiser, you say. A Star Cruiser parked, no less! 3 escorts all dumping on the same facing for 10 minutes huh. Do you also have a bridge for sale?

    Is the omega shield passive too good, yeah. I run a Tac Ody with and engineer captain. I have the passive, and a truckload of other ways to restore and fortify shields. I did fleet pvp tonight with players that know how to pvp. I was very hard to kill, but I had to work for it. There is no way a parked target can comsume 3 escort firepower unless those escorts are operated by the same guys who pug and park for marks.

    The shield passive needs to be nerfed, but really, if your going to make something up, atleast make it believible
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Re: the T4 Omega shield heal passive

    I checked in with the team after I passed along your feedback about this passive and was told that it is too powerful and is going to get a nerf.

    :)

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=

    From this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481741

    Which was the 5th non-sticky thread in the PvP section as this thread was posted.

    Just saying...
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Those passive are really silly. The fix should be making the 1000+ heal every 6 sec into + 50/6 sec. And yea, I believe the op. I had few games tonight and its really useless to try shooting somebody with T4 shield passive. The proc I think is every 6 secs, but still, it's way too much. Great job again cryptic!

    Edit: pretty much killing any ship w t4 shield passive is near to impossible, not only cruisers.
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
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  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    oridjerraa wrote: »
    Sorry man, I simply do not believe you. A star cruiser, you say. A Star Cruiser parked, no less! 3 escorts all dumping on the same facing for 10 minutes huh. Do you also have a bridge for sale?

    Is the omega shield passive too good, yeah. I run a Tac Ody with and engineer captain. I have the passive, and a truckload of other ways to restore and fortify shields. I did fleet pvp tonight with players that know how to pvp. I was very hard to kill, but I had to work for it. There is no way a parked target can comsume 3 escort firepower unless those escorts are operated by the same guys who pug and park for marks.

    The shield passive needs to be nerfed, but really, if your going to make something up, atleast make it believible

    Before you insist that such a thing is impossible, consider this. The fleet Star Cruiser has 4 engineering and 4 science console slots. This makes it possible for the ship to stack 4 hull regeneration and 4 shield regeneration consoles. Take a look at this post for a cruiser specced for simple healing. Now, combine that with a cruiser running 125 shield power, holding tactical team/EPtS up 100% of the time, good duty officer choices, and every heal passive in the reputation system. Even when we did manage to burn part of the shield, the engineer would simply pop an extra heal to compensate. Even before the reputation system I have seen cruisers take sustained fire from three escorts for 3+ minutes. Sure, they died in the end, but it took a very long time to kill them. You say sitting still while under fire is a bad thing due to the increased critical hit. You probably know this already, but the Tier IV Romulan shield boost only procs when you get critically hit, making critical hits on your tanking ship desirable.

    Something isn't impossible simply because you can't do it yourself. In your case you were fighting a team that plans their debuffs. I highly suspect that one of the players on the opposing team was a science officer, in which case they would have subnuke beam to deal with your heals. Whereas the match I was in was a PUG and we were not pooling debuffs at the same time. We were also all tactical, which means we didin't have any science debuffs to counter the engineer's healing.
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    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Of course its possible.

    Cryptic has once again released a super shield... no one is shocked, it was time for another one.

    Its one of Cryptics ploys to engage the PvE community to help them kill off PvP in STO.

    They will leave this one live for 2-3 weeks... and then correct it... so that ever PvE Kid that was using it to tank tac cubes will QQ about PvPers ruining there game.

    Cryptic has already started it off right by saying that it needs to be "NERFED" instead of stating that they SCREWED up and its not working as intended.

    If they did that the PvE kids might not get there knives out.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Oh someone already has T4 ? I'm kinda taking break from STO again, but was looking forward to that passive. Good Cryptic made it OP :D Oh and nice new year to everyone who does not have me in ignore. See you in 2013.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    ive encountered him, and killed him a few times nearly single handedly. noting can hold out against criting EWP3 thats dealing between 1500 and 3000 dot a second. especially if he is nice enough to just sit there.
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    ive encountered him, and killed him a few times nearly single handedly. noting can hold out against criting EWP3 thats dealing between 1500 and 3000 dot a second. especially if he is nice enough to just sit there.

    Yeah the most feasible way to kill such a target is to bypass shields and trying to directly affect someones hull.
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • queue38queue38 Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    With
    TSS III +548.8 per sec/per shield side
    RSF III +246.7 per sec/per shield side
    Passive +1,200ish per sec/per shield side
    Total about +2,000 per sec/per shield side
    Plus 75% shield damage reduction

    It would take 8,000 dps to start taking down the shields

    Wait there is TT also so times that by 4, 32,000 dps.

    On a side note I was in a PUG vs. Premade today it ended at 7-15. I had over 1.6million in healing. (Most of the time it is around a 900k in PUG vs. PUG) but with my all Transphasic build I was 2nd in damage. :D
    I am @allenlabarge in game :D
  • omgrandalthoromgrandalthor Member Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    fleet mvam with it is almost imposable to kill. I only was able to kill him 2 times he got me 5 i basically had to do a 10% gdf stacked with all my tac buffs between his tts to do it. My shields without the t4 prock were like non existent compared to his!
  • studleydoostudleydoo Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Its true, you can tank like crazy with the new tier 4 shield passives. I tanked the entire Starbase 24 enemy fleet without shields going down. The only time it when down briefly was when I was hit by multiple isometric charges...of course my shields bounced right back. It was fun for a bit being invulnerable but it gets boring quick after while...no challenge. The only thing to worry about was keeping the bleedthru damage on the hull in check.

    My understanding is that the shield regeneration passive is proccing every second instead of every 6 seconds. Hope they fix this soon. This with the placate passive will surely make pvp unplayable. Placate passive has no cooldown. It needs a cooldown as well.
  • rudiefix1rudiefix1 Member Posts: 420
    edited December 2012
    studleydoo wrote: »
    My understanding is that the shield regeneration passive is proccing every second instead of every 6 seconds. Hope they fix this soon.

    once in 6 sec will still be too much. The magnitude has to be tuned down a bit also. Remember, its supposed to be a small addition to all the other (main) shield heals.
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  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    ****ing PvE garbage that was made to appeal to lamers who can't finish Elite STFs.

    It annoys me that this passive even when fixed makes some ships almost but obsolete as damage dealers. I guess we'll all be running 2 AtB plasma setups just to get kills in the future. :) Not that that's a bad thing, it's a great setup. I just wish we had more freedom in options. :D
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  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    snoge00f wrote: »
    ****ing PvE garbage that was made to appeal to lamers who can't finish Elite STFs.

    It annoys me that this passive even when fixed makes some ships almost but obsolete as damage dealers. I guess we'll all be running 2 AtB plasma setups just to get kills in the future. :) Not that that's a bad thing, it's a great setup. I just wish we had more freedom in options. :D
    Let's all take a moment to thank dontdrunkimshoot for crafting ahead of time what we need now purely out of the goodness of his heart and desire to set things on fire.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I've never run Theta - does it share a CD with EWP or trigger one?
  • oridjerraaoridjerraa Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    queue38 wrote: »
    With
    TSS III +548.8 per sec/per shield side
    RSF III +246.7 per sec/per shield side
    Passive +1,200ish per sec/per shield side
    Total about +2,000 per sec/per shield side
    Plus 75% shield damage reduction

    It would take 8,000 dps to start taking down the shields

    Wait there is TT also so times that by 4, 32,000 dps.

    On a side note I was in a PUG vs. Premade today it ended at 7-15. I had over 1.6million in healing. (Most of the time it is around a 900k in PUG vs. PUG) but with my all Transphasic build I was 2nd in damage. :D

    You do know that a Tac/escort can burst that high, and easily run over 10,000 dps for a sustained duration, such as a full Infected run.

    I have a Tac/fleet tactical escort and run 9.5 dps. I was parsed at 20k dps blowing away the Tact cube in the being of Kitomer. And my gear/skill is not as good as some of my fleetmates. One fleetie that comes to mind did almost 40k on the same tact cube.

    I am not saying a fleet star cruiser wouldn't be a problem to bring down with the passive and a solid defense build. I am calling BS on the guy saying he was sitting still for 10minutes with 3 escorts wailing on him. The negative defense penalty would translate into monstrous crit severity bonus for the escorts.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    oridjerraa wrote: »
    You do know that a Tac/escort can burst that high, and easily run over 10,000 dps for a sustained duration, such as a full Infected run.

    I have a Tac/fleet tactical escort and run 9.5 dps. I was parsed at 20k dps blowing away the Tact cube in the being of Kitomer. And my gear/skill is not as good as some of my fleetmates. One fleetie that comes to mind did almost 40k on the same tact cube.

    I am not saying a fleet star cruiser wouldn't be a problem to bring down with the passive and a solid defense build. I am calling BS on the guy saying he was sitting still for 10minutes with 3 escorts wailing on him. The negative defense penalty would translate into monstrous crit severity bonus for the escorts.

    If anyone would like video of a cruiser sitting still with escorts pounding on it, let me know. I realize I have an alpha like a little girl so count my experience out, but I'm sure those other guys were really good.

    Cheers happy flying!
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    studleydoo wrote: »
    This with the placate passive will surely make pvp unplayable. Placate passive has no cooldown. It needs a cooldown as well.

    The placate passive is ridiculous. I was in a pvp match where multiple people on the other team had it. I spent about an equal amount of time being able to target the enemy as not being able to target them. On top of that, it makes sensor analysis completely useless since you will will be placated a few seconds after you use it and lose your target lock.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    redricky wrote: »
    Let's all take a moment to thank dontdrunkimshoot for crafting ahead of time what we need now purely out of the goodness of his heart and desire to set things on fire.

    knowledge is power. with enough of it, you can effectively counter everything in game. except runabouts. the more knowledge i can share, the better opponents the rest of you will be. think of all those additional seconds you will last once i start firing at you!

    oridjerraa wrote: »
    You do know that a Tac/escort can burst that high, and easily run over 10,000 dps for a sustained duration, such as a full Infected run.

    I have a Tac/fleet tactical escort and run 9.5 dps. I was parsed at 20k dps blowing away the Tact cube in the being of Kitomer. And my gear/skill is not as good as some of my fleetmates. One fleetie that comes to mind did almost 40k on the same tact cube.

    I am not saying a fleet star cruiser wouldn't be a problem to bring down with the passive and a solid defense build. I am calling BS on the guy saying he was sitting still for 10minutes with 3 escorts wailing on him. The negative defense penalty would translate into monstrous crit severity bonus for the escorts.

    i find that dps can be up to 10 times higher in pve then it can be in pve, for 1 reason

    RESISTANCE

    what player ships have, and what npcs do not. don't fool yourself into thinking you will ever do 10-20k dps in a pvp match. what the log parcer shows also takes into account all the off buff shots you fire, so you may peek at 40-50k dps, but not for longer then 10 seconds, and thats only against targets with 0 resistance.

    in any pvp clash that isn't full of 1 shots only, don't expect to deal over 2k dps in an escort. even an escort constantly stomping a mud hole will likely never average over 4k. this isn't because your doing something wrong, its because you can be shooting at up to 75% resistance shields, and up to 50% resistance hull.

    add on top of that the pasives and heals over time these invinca cruisers can run, and they are out healing the damage you and maybe 2 others can deal.

    thissler wrote: »
    If anyone would like video of a cruiser sitting still with escorts pounding on it, let me know. I realize I have an alpha like a little girl so count my experience out, but I'm sure those other guys were really good.

    Cheers happy flying!


    since 99% of your shots in a match are all within the space of a single second, i'd love to see the dps that is calculated for that! 1 shot builds like that are the only thing that could get sky high dps in a pvp match.
  • doomiciledoomicile Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Knowing Cryptic, they'll just nerf Engineers......again.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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