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P2W Or Not P2W, That Is The Question

livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited December 2012 in PvP Gameplay
I often wonder why P2W is such a problem, I mean in reality u can get any of the ships/consoles with dilithum. Feds can buy Theta cheap, Klinks can buy AMS cheap. I have 2 accounts with multiple toons which allows me to make a lot of Zen on a weekly basis, if u know how to watch the dil market there is no reason why anyone with a few toons can?t make 1000zen a week. So again, Why is it called P2W when all u have to do is play the game to get it?

What about starships? It is fairly easy to say that the bug is an OP ship, is it P2W? The Mobius Destroyer a Lobi purchased ship, Lobi comes from lock boxes that u buy keys to open, Is that P2W? How about some weapons? How many armors out there protect against disruptor and poloron together? I mean yes it sux getting AMSed or green goo Tric mined, but there are multiple ways to defend against all the P2W out there. The bug, granted, is a tuff as nails ship. It doesn't mean i scream op p2w when I get my ash blown away by one, I watch for him to make a mistake and exploit that or ask for team support.

I?m just saying more people are joining sto every day and many are leaving as fast as they come, because its general belief that P2W consoles are distasteful to use. Who wants to spend money on something they can?t use, especially when it is effective. I have been playing for years, it has taken that long to build a complete MKXII purple ship. I don?t expect a new player to have firepower to defeat me or the defense to withstand my attack power. If he AMS's when he is at 10% and Impulse Cells out of combat I applaud him! He did not lose a point for his team. I?m sure as hell not going to put my AMS on to return the favor.

Now, the people that are out there calling people down are what is really hurting pvp. I recruited a player, the other day, who was on the verge of quitting sto. I seen him post in zone how he was sick of the aholes in Q's calling him a noob because he was using AMS in a reg patrol escort, against the likes of bugs, fleet ships and the mighty recluse. IMO they were the noobs. They did not try to counter the AMS with ST, i believe ET works as well, they just in turn put there AMS on to counter back. Since then the young man has replaced his AMS with armor, has skilled differently and with the help of his fleet mates has upgraded his ship and weapon systems. He is now more balanced and having fun.

Then we have our revolutions, every month or so there is a new one. Tractor Beam Repulsers, Voldmort, Tric mines, it seems the Transphasic mine is the newest. Other than the vold, which I believe is fixed, there are so many counters to these powerful items and skills. TBR defenses include PH, Brace, Inertial Damper Skill and more I?m sure. TCM are very powerful but are also very weak and easy to defend against. Keep moving, FAW, TBR, PSW, Aceton Assimilators and I know this is a hard one, but, try targeting them with your weapons. Duh!! IMO Transphasic are the worst, it?s rare that a TCM will pop u through full Shields. These little nasty?s, if skilled right, don?t give a goose about your Shield. With so many out there, like myself on a Tac, we have very few hull heals. My best advice when dealing with Trannys is just like real life, get away from them fast. Before this becomes a how to thread, I?m going to stop myself. I just want to say to anyone new out there, if you are running P2W don?t feel bad when u get the gears. If you?re in a pug, say facing me in a premade, I would be disappointed if u didn?t use AMS against my team, as it help us train for those types of threats. I will be the first to admit I have used combos that I know are gonna gain me some negative feedback, but know that, I have done this because your build and your skills where so extraordinary, that, to quote the late great Captain Kirk "I Cheated" I would expect any good captain to do the same, as any good captain would have the skills to counter.

"Defense plays an equally important role as offense in Pvp" -Drkfrontier@pvp boot camp.

So in conclusion, I think it is unfair to treat players the way they are being treated. IMO, it is futile to try and change all of pvp by demoralizing a P2W user, as they are the bulk of pvp players. You are only hurting the game we all love so much. If you are a purist player, set rules for your matches. If u pug and u get P2W to death, don?t put the person down with words, switch your Bridge Officer at spawn and show him what real skill is about.

Good Luck And Have Out There
Kraven@Livin
Squadron Commander
Skull Squadron
http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=463615&TabID=3999923
http://pvp-boot.camp.shivtr.com/
Post edited by livinrtb on

Comments

  • mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The first passive in the PvP Reputation is Immunity to P2W
    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    livinrtb wrote: »
    I often wonder why P2W is such a problem, I mean in reality u can get any of the ships/consoles with dilithum. Feds can buy Theta cheap, Klinks can buy AMS cheap. I have 2 accounts with multiple toons which allows me to make a lot of Zen on a weekly basis, if u know how to watch the dil market there is no reason why anyone with a few toons can?t make 1000zen a week. So again, Why is it called P2W when all u have to do is play the game to get it?

    What about starships? It is fairly easy to say that the bug is an OP ship, is it P2W? The Mobius Destroyer a Lobi purchased ship, Lobi comes from lock boxes that u buy keys to open, Is that P2W? How about some weapons? How many armors out there protect against disruptor and poloron together? I mean yes it sux getting AMSed or green goo Tric mined, but there are multiple ways to defend against all the P2W out there. The bug, granted, is a tuff as nails ship. It doesn't mean i scream op p2w when I get my ash blown away by one, I watch for him to make a mistake and exploit that or ask for team support.

    I?m just saying more people are joining sto every day and many are leaving as fast as they come, because its general belief that P2W consoles are distasteful to use. Who wants to spend money on something they can?t use, especially when it is effective. I have been playing for years, it has taken that long to build a complete MKXII purple ship. I don?t expect a new player to have firepower to defeat me or the defense to withstand my attack power. If he AMS's when he is at 10% and Impulse Cells out of combat I applaud him! He did not lose a point for his team. I?m sure as hell not going to put my AMS on to return the favor.

    Now, the people that are out there calling people down are what is really hurting pvp. I recruited a player, the other day, who was on the verge of quitting sto. I seen him post in zone how he was sick of the aholes in Q's calling him a noob because he was using AMS in a reg patrol escort, against the likes of bugs, fleet ships and the mighty recluse. IMO they were the noobs. They did not try to counter the AMS with ST, i believe ET works as well, they just in turn put there AMS on to counter back. Since then the young man has replaced his AMS with armor, has skilled differently and with the help of his fleet mates has upgraded his ship and weapon systems. He is now more balanced and having fun.

    Then we have our revolutions, every month or so there is a new one. Tractor Beam Repulsers, Voldmort, Tric mines, it seems the Transphasic mine is the newest. Other than the vold, which I believe is fixed, there are so many counters to these powerful items and skills. TBR defenses include PH, Brace, Inertial Damper Skill and more I?m sure. TCM are very powerful but are also very weak and easy to defend against. Keep moving, FAW, TBR, PSW, Aceton Assimilators and I know this is a hard one, but, try targeting them with your weapons. Duh!! IMO Transphasic are the worst, it?s rare that a TCM will pop u through full Shields. These little nasty?s, if skilled right, don?t give a goose about your Shield. With so many out there, like myself on a Tac, we have very few hull heals. My best advice when dealing with Trannys is just like real life, get away from them fast. Before this becomes a how to thread, I?m going to stop myself. I just want to say to anyone new out there, if you are running P2W don?t feel bad when u get the gears. If you?re in a pug, say facing me in a premade, I would be disappointed if u didn?t use AMS against my team, as it help us train for those types of threats. I will be the first to admit I have used combos that I know are gonna gain me some negative feedback, but know that, I have done this because your build and your skills where so extraordinary, that, to quote the late great Captain Kirk "I Cheated" I would expect any good captain to do the same, as any good captain would have the skills to counter.

    "Defense plays an equally important role as offense in Pvp" -Drkfrontier@pvp boot camp.

    So in conclusion, I think it is unfair to treat players the way they are being treated. IMO, it is futile to try and change all of pvp by demoralizing a P2W user, as they are the bulk of pvp players. You are only hurting the game we all love so much. If you are a purist player, set rules for your matches. If u pug and u get P2W to death, don?t put the person down with words, switch your Bridge Officer at spawn and show him what real skill is about.

    Good Luck And Have Out There
    Kraven@Livin
    Squadron Commander
    Skull Squadron
    http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=463615&TabID=3999923
    http://pvp-boot.camp.shivtr.com/

    I replied to the same basic question you asked in another thread:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6924301&postcount=80

    Also, basic MkXII isn't what will seperate you from newer players. Your knowledge and skill applying your knowledge will. Using P2W vs someone who isn't (whether it's ships/consoles/etc) will hurt a player b/c they won't learn timing and counters.

    For example, ET doesn't clear AMS only ST does, you were mistaken on that.

    He shouldn't need that cell console to run. He should know hyper impulse engines w/evasives @ full engine power preset will do.

    Further, if you're Fed side generally you should learn to cross repair/resist boost rather than running like KDF raiders are geared for.

    Lastly, it's the lack of development resources invested into PvP that has caused people to run from PvP, it has nothing to do w/other players.
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I was going to reply to your smaller post in the other thread, but I decided to let it go.

    I'll post a shorter version of what I was going to say there...here:

    How much time would you say it would take somebody with a few toons to make 1000 Zen a week?

    Keep in mind, 1000 Zen is $10.

    Divide that $10 by how long it takes.

    Two hours a week? That's $5 an hour.
    Four hours a week? That's $2.50 an hour.
    Eight hours a week? That's $1.25 an hour.
    Longer than eight hours a week?

    Fed Min Wage in the US is $7.25.

    Offer to mow the neighbor's lawn - be done in no time, buy the $10 in Zen and pocket the rest or buy even more...

    Freelance some web stuff - etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

    "Working to get Zen in STO is going to have the worst returns."

    It's a nifty thing to have happen as you're enjoying the game, but it's silly to work at it.

    So tada... P2W.
  • livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    mrkollins wrote: »
    The first passive in the PvP Reputation is Immunity to P2W

    Nice... that is awsome do u have a link for this info?
  • livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I was going to reply to your smaller post in the other thread, but I decided to let it go.

    I'll post a shorter version of what I was going to say there...here:

    How much time would you say it would take somebody with a few toons to make 1000 Zen a week?

    Keep in mind, 1000 Zen is $10.

    Divide that $10 by how long it takes.

    Two hours a week? That's $5 an hour.
    Four hours a week? That's $2.50 an hour.
    Eight hours a week? That's $1.25 an hour.
    Longer than eight hours a week?

    Fed Min Wage in the US is $7.25.

    Offer to mow the neighbor's lawn - be done in no time, buy the $10 in Zen and pocket the rest or buy even more...

    Freelance some web stuff - etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

    "Working to get Zen in STO is going to have the worst returns."

    It's a nifty thing to have happen as you're enjoying the game, but it's silly to work at it.

    So tada... P2W.

    im not saying it easy to do the grind it has taken me years to prefect my method but lets do some math

    we will go with me as a veteran player with 3 toons each toon refines 8k=24k per day x7=168000
    with my experience can make 1440dil every 6mins ergo it takes say 12hrs of grinding a week to make my cap of 168k now u need to keep in mind there is an exchange and its prices move up and down "buy low sell high" economics 101 i traded last night 168000 dil @111 for 1513 zen

    now i didnt have to go shovle snow or mow a lawn i got to play the game i love with my friends and in my case my wife and i still made over my goal of 1k zen per week.

    working to get zen in sto no, pays to play sto yes

    thnx cryptic for a great game and thnx dancer my wife just told me to shovle the nabors walk before i can spend money to resubscribe for gold...lol
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    livinrtb wrote: »
    there is an exchange and its prices move up and down "buy low sell high" economics 101 i traded last night 168000 dil @111 for 1513 zen

    Not that long ago, days at that - there was better volatility to the market. I mean, seriously, the price would vary by +- ~10 in a day at set times.

    Using artificial numbers for an example:

    Time A = 120 DpZ
    Time B = 130 DpZ

    If you bought Zen when it was 120 DpZ and then sold it when it was 130 DpZ (using your 168000 Dil), you would turn the 168k Dil into 1400 Zen and turn the 1400 Zen into 182000 Dil. A 14k Dil profit simply by logging in twice a day.

    Day 2: 197167 Dil
    Day 3: 213597 Dil
    Day 4: 231397 Dil
    Day 5: 250680 Dil
    Day 6: 271570 Dil
    Day 7: 294201 Dil

    If you cash out on Day 7/8 - you're looking at 2263 Zen. 863 Zen profit on a few minutes work each day.

    If you've been playing for a while, you're going to have more profit.

    Say you started with 500k Dil / 4167 Zen...

    Day 1: 541667
    Day 2: 586806
    Day 3: 635707
    Day 4: 688682
    Day 5: 746072
    Day 6: 808244
    Day 7: 875999

    If you cash out, you're looking at 6738 Zen... a profit of 2571 Zen. Again, just a few minutes work each day.

    Sure, sometimes it would be a change <10, but sometimes it would be >10. In the end though, you could be pretty content - because you didn't have to farm the Dil nor did you have to spend the cash for the Zen. You were profiting off of the work and the money of others...

    ...but the market's crashed...meh. ~1-3 change isn't turning much profit unless you've got oodles and oodles and oodles...and, er well, oodles of capital to continue playing that particular game.
  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    p2wsucks wrote: »

    He shouldn't need that cell console to run. He should know hyper impulse engines w/evasives @ full engine power preset will do.

    Further, if you're Fed side generally you should learn to cross repair/resist boost rather than running like KDF raiders are geared for.

    Agreed on the first point, unless he's being with immobilizers/disables. . .Impulse Cell can help to escape then, as evasive will be useless. Of course, there's only so much the Impulse Cell can do :P

    Definitely agreed on the 2nd part, especially concerning KDF raider. The BoPs are designed to be able to enter and exit combat quickly, hitting and running. That's why they're hard to tank in.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    mrkollins wrote: »
    The first passive in the PvP Reputation is Immunity to P2W

    do u gain pvp rep only from pvp?

    if i dont have the immunity passive, will someone with the passive P2W ability effect me?

    would the passive make things like enhanced plasma manifold useless?
  • livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012

    ...but the market's crashed...meh. ~1-3 change isn't turning much profit unless you've got oodles and oodles and oodles...and, er well, oodles of capital to continue playing that particular game.

    Now is the time to grind do a regular daliy grind and earn your capital while u only have to pay 111 i cash in before i log daliy...right now
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Cryptic/PWE knew it would crash though. They're going to be introducing more rep systems and additional Dil sinks. They're cutting out the folks that played the market so they are more likely to end up on the buying side along with everybody else. They're cutting out the folks that would farm Dil to buy ships so they are more likely to farm Dil for gear while spending money to buy ships. Etc, etc, etc - I believe that's the gamble they're taking.

    It might stabilize at a certain point, but I'm not sure we're going to see any of the exchange rates we've seen in the past.

    After a period of time, folks will adjust to those prices and even not think much of it as they spend cash to buy Zen to get Dil still. We've seen that happen this year alone - look at what the rate was earlier in the year, eh? Look at what it is now...

    ...course, how much of that D/Z being traded is "new" D/Z and how much was generated throughout the year? Have to figure there are those that are also trying to cash out on what they see as a crashing market - so there's a run on it... driving it down even further.

    It'd be a trip if some college student were to do a paper on the great D/Z market crash of 2012...lol.
  • livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012

    It'd be a trip if some college student were to do a paper on the great D/Z market crash of 2012...lol.

    I don't know it breaks the TOS but this is part of a project i am working on in school. My posts are not viewed by the class just handwritten to the professor Names of posters are omitted...8D
  • livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012

    ...course, how much of that D/Z being traded is "new" D/Z and how much was generated throughout the year? Have to figure there are those that are also trying to cash out on what they see as a crashing market - so there's a run on it... driving it down even further.

    i think more likely it a few people or fleets that drive the market just like the real world
    ex. ur morgans and fairchilds of sto if u will
  • duaths1duaths1 Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    yeah i don't think it is wise to convert to Zen right now.. there are no new things in the Zen store, apart from inventory/bank slots ..etc..

    you'Re better of by grinding dill and just saving it on account.
  • reconalpha1reconalpha1 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I can understand why some players hate the P2W thing.

    This game as it is now is designed for the hard core player. The player that has enough time to grind from sun up to sun down to get his toon up to par with the rest of the skilled players.

    No one likes to queue for PvP or PvE and get blown out of the sky in 2 sec every time they engage the enemy. That?s not fun.

    This game is easy to get your toon to level 50 in no time at all, but, its after that, that makes this game lose it appeal.

    The heavy grinding one must do to collect enough Zen/ Dilithium / Energy Credits / Omega Marks/ Romulan Marks/ Fleet Marks. Just trying to decide how to spend your 2 hours you have to play this game can make your head spin when your new to this game.

    Do I spend my 2 hours just grinding the same thing I did yesterday,(That was boring) or should I Queue for PvP and get blown out of the sky 15 times in a row because I haven?t got the gear to survive the P2W ships and I?m still using my Free T5 ship that I have.

    What do I do with my 2 hours?

    That?s the problem for the casual player. They don?t want to or don?t have the cash to fast forward themselves to the perfect build or the time they have to play the game is so small that the perfect build is so far down the road that they just end up quitting.

    Its not the fact that they lost to a P2W it?s the fact that in order to fully enjoy the game you have to spend a HUGE amount of time grinding which means they are not enjoying the repetitive mind numbing mission over and over and over again or you need to spend cash to jump to the end of the road.

    If you had only 2 hours to play a day and only 5 days to play it, would you still find it fun starting from ZERO.
    to get a feel for the new player try using 1 mil EC to out fit your Non C-store ship or fleet ship and use that ship for 1 month and see how far your skill goes with just 1 mil EC (that includes your captains gear too)
  • aetam1aetam1 Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I was going to reply to your smaller post in the other thread, but I decided to let it go.

    I'll post a shorter version of what I was going to say there...here:

    How much time would you say it would take somebody with a few toons to make 1000 Zen a week?

    Keep in mind, 1000 Zen is $10.

    Divide that $10 by how long it takes.

    Two hours a week? That's $5 an hour.
    Four hours a week? That's $2.50 an hour.
    Eight hours a week? That's $1.25 an hour.
    Longer than eight hours a week?

    Fed Min Wage in the US is $7.25.

    Offer to mow the neighbor's lawn - be done in no time, buy the $10 in Zen and pocket the rest or buy even more...

    Freelance some web stuff - etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

    "Working to get Zen in STO is going to have the worst returns."

    It's a nifty thing to have happen as you're enjoying the game, but it's silly to work at it.

    So tada... P2W.

    The good thing is, there are many ways to earn dilithium. You even get it through pvp. So everyone should be able to find a way to get dilithium and have some fun at the same time. That means sooner or later you will be able to afford your toys.
    Also consider this: if grinding dilithium and getting ZEN is considered pay to win, that would mean everything you get for dilithium has to be pay to win as well. So that nice MACO shield you are running? Sry it is pay to win now.
    The MK XII version is what? 34k dilithium? That would be something like 300 Zen.
    So the dilithium cost of an MK XII MACO set will buy you a cheap console. So if you pay for both with dilithium you can not classify them differently in my opinion.

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    duaths1 wrote: »
    yeah i don't think it is wise to convert to Zen right now.. there are no new things in the Zen store, apart from inventory/bank slots ..etc..

    you'Re better of by grinding dill and just saving it on account.

    the reason i say covert daily right now is because dil is worth something u can buy 900 zen with 100000 dil thats at 111per dil thats waht it was at when i last checked now if the price of goes up say to 114per dil for zen and u trade back BOOM 102600 i just made 26k dil. thats on the small scale but i just saved my self the grind on 3 toons imk just tryin to help those out who dont know about or how to play the dil market...8D

    just because u have zen doesn't mean spend it on ships and other zstore junk buy some key and sell them if u need energy credits use it as capital to buy dil when i heads north agian like say when u can buy 200dil for 1 zen
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    aetam1 wrote: »
    The good thing is, there are many ways to earn dilithium. You even get it through pvp. So everyone should be able to find a way to get dilithium and have some fun at the same time. That means sooner or later you will be able to afford your toys.

    That's kind of the difference in thought. Are you doing something you enjoy and making Dil along the way...or are you chasing Dil, possibly doing things you do not enjoy?

    Think about the AFKers in PvP - what's the reward for them being there? Dil. One would think if they actually enjoyed PvP and were not just there for the Dil, they would be participating.

    So you've got the person there for the PvP, that may or may not have a mission that rewards Dil... and you have the person there for the Dil...
  • livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I can understand why some players hate the P2W thing.

    This game as it is now is designed for the hard core player. The player that has enough time to grind from sun up to sun down to get his toon up to par with the rest of the skilled players.

    No one likes to queue for PvP or PvE and get blown out of the sky in 2 sec every time they engage the enemy. That?s not fun.

    This game is easy to get your toon to level 50 in no time at all, but, its after that, that makes this game lose it appeal.

    The heavy grinding one must do to collect enough Zen/ Dilithium / Energy Credits / Omega Marks/ Romulan Marks/ Fleet Marks. Just trying to decide how to spend your 2 hours you have to play this game can make your head spin when your new to this game.

    Do I spend my 2 hours just grinding the same thing I did yesterday,(That was boring) or should I Queue for PvP and get blown out of the sky 15 times in a row because I haven?t got the gear to survive the P2W ships and I?m still using my Free T5 ship that I have.

    What do I do with my 2 hours?

    That?s the problem for the casual player. They don?t want to or don?t have the cash to fast forward themselves to the perfect build or the time they have to play the game is so small that the perfect build is so far down the road that they just end up quitting.

    Its not the fact that they lost to a P2W it?s the fact that in order to fully enjoy the game you have to spend a HUGE amount of time grinding which means they are not enjoying the repetitive mind numbing mission over and over and over again or you need to spend cash to jump to the end of the road.

    If you had only 2 hours to play a day and only 5 days to play it, would you still find it fun starting from ZERO.
    to get a feel for the new player try using 1 mil EC to out fit your Non C-store ship or fleet ship and use that ship for 1 month and see how far your skill goes with just 1 mil EC (that includes your captains gear too)

    yes i am a veteran and after years of playin the game i have pick many things up along the way. but instead of holding things back that i have learned i share many of them with my fleetmates. a good fleet can really make or break a new player, my fleet for example really
    prides its self on helping its new members. we do not spam recruiet, blind or mass invite we select are members carefully. Play the game as u play,donate to the fleet bank,chat in vent show that u want to be a part of ur fleet. in are fleet these kinds of actions will rank u up.in my fleet i offer F.S.P. what i call flight support points u sign up on my web site join my team confirm and attend an event i will grant so many fsp for ur attendance,preformance and i always offer a mission like say get CSE optional with 6mins left i would award 1000fsp for that say. u can then turn those points in with me and i will give u gear that u need or want like say a mkxI purple phaser turret critdx2 acc or build up enought and turn it in for a weapon set. what im getting at is you only truley need to get to 50 your fleetmates can help u gear up and balance ur build so playing the game is more enjoyable...if ur fleet is not like this talk to them tell them what u need im sure they will buck up if u have put some time in with them...if not give me a call i will recruite u or help u find a sutable fleet that meets ur needs.

    kraven@livin
  • livinrtblivinrtb Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    That's kind of the difference in thought. Are you doing something you enjoy and making Dil along the way...or are you chasing Dil, possibly doing things you do not enjoy?

    Think about the AFKers in PvP - what's the reward for them being there? Dil. One would think if they actually enjoyed PvP and were not just there for the Dil, they would be participating.

    So you've got the person there for the PvP, that may or may not have a mission that rewards Dil... and you have the person there for the Dil...

    i mean i grinded my ash off for a long to time so that i can now pick up dil as i go but times like this when there is a new patch and a ton to grind any way i work it in to my grind regiment dil price is low perfect time to grind what u trade in today will earn u more later i guarantee that. Do i enjoy grinding well i enjoy grinding sto more then wow i'll tell ya that much. but what i enjoy is the rewards of grinding and so do my freinds i have friends that only play a few hrs a week i help them any way i can because i can... and that is enjoyment to me helping others
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