I am A TAC captian who Flys Fleet Defiant, Fleet MVAE, and a JEM Bug. The Bug being my go to ship. And I do very, very well in PVE and in PVP if a have a even somewhat good PUG group with me. Here is my Build and training spec:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=Cruiser11_0
As you can see, WEP, SHIELDS, and HULL are full up and with other passives and DOFF anf BOFF skills my cannons and beam do very well. But I want to play in a Cruiser for a change. So I went and got the Fleet Excelsior.
I put TT1/FAW2/BO3 for the TAC skills and E-power to shields 1, RSP 1, E-power to shields 3, Aux to structural 3
I Put 4 XII Polorized Diruptor beam arrays in the back and 3 XII Polorized Dual beam arrays and 1 Fleet XII Quantum in the front.
TAC consoles: 3 XII purple Disruptor tac consoles and 1 XII purple Zero point chamber,
Eng Consoles: 1 EPS XII purple, 2 Neutronium XII purple and 1 Monotonium XII purple.
SCI Consoles: 1 XII purple Field Gen, 1 Borg Console.
And I cant kill jack. I know I am spoiled in the Bug being able to kill thing in a few seconds but this boat took like a full min just to get a Gen to %10 in infected Elite. What is wrong here It's just not dishing out and damage. Sure I can take some shots and Tank a little but what fun is that I like to be able to dish out some damage, Are curisers just made for ENg captians? Do I need to respec for Torp skill and become a Torpedo boat? Some advice would be wonderful.
Comments
A BA will hit for at most 1k, and usually end up at around 500 at the end of the salvo.
A DHC will hit for at most 2k, and end up around 1k at the end of the salvo.
You aren't doing anything wrong, you are just used to burst damage, not sustained damage. Your fleet excel will NEVER burst as hard as your bug. Ever. You just gotta get used to it.
However if you really must fly a cruiser with the intent to do damage, then I'll try and help.
The absolute best damage dealing build for a cruiser (specifically Excelsior and Regent) is the following:-
Fore: 4x cannons (preferably disruptor with DMG mods, since CrtD and CrtH won't make much of a difference considering the crit isn't much)
Aft: 4x turrets
Deflector: Borg
Engine: Borg
Shield: MACO
Engineering consoles: RCS or Borg console, RCS, 2x neutronium alloy
Science consoles: 2x field generator
Tactical consoles: all energy type specific consoles
Lt Cmdr tactical: tactical team 1, cannon rapid fire 1, cannon rapid fire 2
Cmdr engineering: Emergency power to shields 1, reverse shield polarity 1, directed energy modulation 2, directed energy modulation 3
Lt engineering: Emergency power to weapons 1, emergency power to shields 2
Ens engineering: Emergency power to weapons 1
Lt Science: Hazard Emitters 1, transfer shield strength 2
That will all amount to impressive firepower for a fed cruiser (I say fed, since KDF cruisers can mount dual heavy cannons), but it'll still be poor compared to an escort. Certainly don't bother flying it in PvP, as you'll be a liability and will only take down unprepared escorts.
In the end cryptic has decided fed cruisers are heal boats and while you can push at the boundries, that's what they'll always be best as.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
So try this (meant for stfs only, not 1v1 so don't try to challenge me or say your escort/cruiser could kill me).
The parenthesis will be reasons why and/or tips/possible replacements.
I have all the tac skills except threat generation and stealth at full points which is how I maintain high damage and crit chance with all weapons (about every 4th hit is a crit for me), I also put all healing skills at full and hull/shield hit point increase skills at full, starship manuevers at full (to effectively turn to launch the cluster torp and trico when I use it) power level increase skill (the flat bonus one), and 6 points in particle generators for the aceton beam. (I might have forgot some but those are the most important)
With all tac buffs going I get about 1200 dmg per beam and 8000 dmg per torp hit (without any buffs its about 700 per hit, but I always have a few buffs that keep me at 900 per beam) my crits hit for 1200 without buffs and with is about 1600-1800, and my torp crits are between 10k-12k depending on buffs and can get up to 15k.
All power to weapons of course.
Fore weapons:
3x Phaser beam array mk XII (the borg ones)
Wide angle quantum torp (to make full use of beams while still doing heavy torp hits)
Aft weapons:
2x Phaser beam array mk XII (also borg)
Kinetic cutting beam (used to have a trico torp and still switch once in a while but this hits for 800-1000 kinetic dmg and 1200 crits, considering that its x4 it totals up to avg 4k which is good for 360 degree weapon with 8 power drain)
Breen transphasic cluster torp (for heavy dmg, even when shields are up, drops about 20% hull from spheres in elite and up to 10% from cubes and on avg my 3 very rare torp doffs cut the recharge in half so its pretty effective)
Shield/deflector/engines: all Mk XII maco (since the borg + maco shield combo is useless now given that the console is no longer part of it, making it so u need to have all 3 parts to get both heal passives, and I will probably use adapted maco when I get it which has the stats of KHG gear)
Consoles:
Eng: point defense system (with all dmg buffs active it will take a cube down to 40% with other weapons firing, when I use it I can kill a cube in elite in about 20-30 sec and still have shields up and hull at full or about 95% if a torp hits me) | metreon gas (good for structures and cubes) | RCS (will be replaced with the romulan console when I get it for increased power levels and crit chance) | Neutrinium hull plating (don't think I spelled that right)
Sci: field generator | shield emitter (despite unpopular reputation, it gives an extra 23 shield regen, not % but straight regen and I plan to get the Superior Shield Regeneration ability at T4 omega rep for a total shield regen rate of 246, I may take it off at that point and replace it with a field gen leaving 223 shield regen)
Tac: Assimalated console (can't wait for that romulan console to boost even more crit chance) | Phaser relay | zero point quantum | I will put the romulan console on the 4th slot that comes with the fleet version, and replace the rcs or add more armor when I get it, or add another phaser relay (undecided atm)
All my consoles are currently Mk XI rare (blue)
Boffs:
Cmd eng: aceton beam 3 (might replace with boarding party 3 to shutdown enemies) | RSP 2 (for any emergancy) | emg power to shields 2 | emg power to weapons 1.
Lt eng: eng team 2 | emg power to engines (useful for getting around when combined with evasive)
Lt cmd tac: torp spread 3 (avg 4000 dmg x4 per target and double with crit hits which i have a high crit chance and should probably switch to AP beams) | Beam fire at will 2 | tac team 1
ensign tac: tac team 1 (by having 2 of these u can keep it going almost all the time to keep shields up and boost dmg)
Lt universal (sci): hazard emitters 2 (for plasma fires and just a good heal) | transfer shield strength 1 (amazing shield heal when combined with emg power to shields)
I've been seeing people use HE 1 and TSS 2 instead, but thats just useless, TSS 1 is still effective while HE 1 is terrible without a high aux power, which your power should be in weapons and shields.
With this setup I only die if I get hit by an invisible torp, gate, iso charge, any other 1 hit kill attack that can't be defended, or too much agro (by too much I mean A LOT, I can tank most anything you would have to deal with in an elite stf, hive excluded of course, don't think anyone can tank and kill more than 1 tac cube without hit and run tactics or something of the sort by themself, I can effectively tank a unimatrix ship with this though)
This is the best combo of offense/defense I have found so far for a tac officer cruiser and I have been experimenting with different setups for about 4 months (used the excelsior and tac oddy before the regent came out). A lot of people swear that the excelsior is the best for tac crusiers but I will never use it again after using the regent, and the fleet version of the assualt cruiser will only reinforce my opinion of that.
And to anyone who says tacs in cruisers are a waste that only hurts your team and that crusiers are not meant for offense (which I don't understand that when ships like the tac oddy if you give it a lt cmd tac, regent, and excelsior are obviously designed for offense); you are just narrow minded. Besides I have seen engineers in escorts rip apart some of the best tac escorts and not even lose shields. Yes, most cruisers are best as heal boats or tanks, but a few (mentioned above) are terrible heal boats, and are best served doing high sustained aoe damage since they can handle the agro better than an escort and a tac is best for it given that an engineer dosen't have the abilities of a tac that are essential for high damage.
Maybe because you are gimping yourself on purpose?
DBBs front and BAs aft, no better way to waste damage potential. A single torpedo launcher without TS or HY and almost no points in torpedoes...
You sure that's your BOFF setup? Cause that's 3 Tac Teams + 1 Eng Team (and one of them even TT3), 3 cannon skills and only 1 attack pattern.
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
3 beams, 1 torp (fore and aft)
Full maco/aegis
EPS flow reg, 2 neutronium, borg
2 field gen
4 energy type
TT1, FAW2, AP:B2
EPtW1, RSP1, Aux2SIF2, EWP3
EPtS1&2
EPtW1
HE1, TSS2
2 Conn (TT) doffs, warp core doff (others vary)
Running a keybind for 99% uptime on EPtW&S putting out standard 900-1100 dmg per hit while being very hard to kill.
A cruiser is best configured for maximum defense, fleet healing support, and holding an enemy's attention. Any other role, and you probably would be better served with an Escort or Science ship.
It's a little late to say you would have been better to have bought the regular Assault Cruiser to see how well a cruiser would have worked for you before burning 4 fleet modules, but that's neither here nor there. The Excelsior is a very good jack-of-all-trades ship and the best reaction ship in the game (able to get anywhere fast), so let's see what you can do.
First, fill up four of those Engineering consoles with modules that give resistance to the damage type you will encounter. If you don't know, or don't want to have to switch every time you go into combat, put four Nuetronium in there, as this will give your hull a very good resistance to all types of damage.
Second, use the three beam array/one torp configuration on both front and aft weapons. This minimizes your power drain while still keeping damage output up (torps drain considerably less energy). Select Tactical consoles that match the damage to the beams first, and torps second.
Third, set up your BOFFs with both shield and hull healing in mind. Remember that you are trying to build to survive, so keep this as your primary goal. Transfer Shield Strength, Engineering Team, Aux to Structure, and Tactical Team are some of the most important points here, and having an Extend Shields handy to help teammates and mission targets can be very useful. Don't leave homebase without Hazard Emitters, either, or you'll be eaten alive by DOTs.
As a Tactical captain, you'll be able to use more offensive abilities, so you'll want to drive the ship as a general-purpose unit in teams....able to take more damage than the Escorts, but not as much as the Engineer-commanded Cruisers. Turning in circles to bring new shields inline while also alternating between torpedo and beam broadsides. Make sure you have at least one Emergency Power to Weapons to keep weapons power levels up.
Ultimately, remember that cruisers are not quick killers but grindstones. You will be working to wear down the enemy, not pound it flat.
Hope this helps.
I captain mostly cruisers with my tac, and I have a lot more fun with him in those than escorts, and probably a bit more fun than my engineer in his cruisers. The thing is that a cruiser is about sustained DPS, not burst DPS. You aren't going to be zooming in and making alpha strikes, you're going to sit there, get shot, ignore it, and destroy your opponent by outlasting him.
I would suggest the following:
* Get a fourth disruptor booster console and ditch the torp booster.
* 3 arrays, 1 torp, fore and aft. More than 6 arrays and you're probably gimping your weapon power, even if it's maxed out.
* With a cruiser I typically do a cycle of TT1, EPtS2/3 (x 2), EPtW1 (x 2), A2SIF3. Note that I use one copy of TT1, but use purple Conn DOffs to cut down the cooldown time so it's like I had two of them. This will strengthen your shields, your weapon output, and give you consistent hull resistance. Note that EPtW can help beams (and only beams) even if it's at over 125 power, or so says the forums.
* Dump the EPS console. Put in more armor, an RCS console, or something otherwise more useful (I am aware of the mantra "cruisers aren't meant to turn," well if they weren't meant to turn they also wouldn't have engines and would be called "starbases"). I would also dump BO3, although some swear by it. I'd put an attack pattern power in there.
* Attack pattern alpha is your friend, use it early and often.
* Do NOT make a cruiser a torpedo boat. A cruiser can do a LOT of things, but a torpedo boat isn't one of them, unless you want to see all of the ship's limitations and none of its advantages in their full glory. I may scoff at the "cruisers can't turn" mantra, but even I am not so mad as to attempt a torp boat in a cruiser.
* Because an Excelsior is the most agile Fed cruiser, you might consider a cannon build, but that obliterates your broadsiding ability (you ARE broadsiding, I trust?), although it does give you the ability to smelt things sitting in front of you. It's also agile enough that you could probably get away with one (note - ONE) DBB up front.
* I am iffy on your armor setup; part of me wants to say to ditch the monotanium for something else entirely, part of me wants to say only two neutronium consoles are needed due to diminishing returns, part of me says it's fine as-is. Consider these possible reconfigurations, but don't go below two neutronium consoles unless you like turning your nice, thick cruiser armor into cardboardium alloy.
* Be aware that cruiser tactics are just plain different than escorts. You'll need a bit of patience, you'll need to be used to flying in circles, you'll need to broadside, and you also need to know what enemies to ignore. This will take some experience.
* If you do a respec, boost the Aux Performance skill to at least 3 to help with A2SIF3. You may also consider bumping up Impulse Thrusters (better turning/impulse use), boosting electro-plasma systems (help you get the most out of the Emergency Power abilities), and reducing Warp Core Potential (you don't even get a single point out of the last three ranks of it, IMO 6 is the optimum for almost any captain).
* Finally, make sure your power setup is right. The classic "attack" setup (weapons 100, shields 50, engines 25, aux 25) works pretty well for me. This is different if you're running a cruiser as a support ship, though, but as a tac you're probably not going to be doing that.
Good luck. I'll post more if I can think of anything else.
First of all, I have to say that it feels absurdly powerful (for a cruiser). The burst damage of FAW combined with torp spread (all at the same time thanks to the wide-angle) can handily destroy BoP waves in CSE or probes in KASE in one volley, which is immensely satisfying and gives it great utility where other cruisers would spend too much time whittling things down.
Anyway, I recently carried a team through to victory in an STF in a way that I believe would not have been possible with any other ship. We were in KASE. One player was an AFK leecher and another left, leaving only 3 players, and one of those 3 was in a poorly equipped science vessel which had trouble doing enough damage to even stop the initial 2 probe waves let alone 4 after the transformers were down. On the other side was a mediocre escort with apparently no ambitions beyond shooting down his own probes. So it fell on me to handle almost all the probe duty on my side and destroy the gate.
Luckily my aux2batt build meant that FAW and torp spread were going off very frequently. The sheer AOE power of the setup allowed me to outright destroy most of the probes, or damage them enough for the science vessel, without ever taking focus off the gate. I managed to destroy the gate without letting any more through and then repeat the same process on the other side, except then with spheres pounding me while the other two took their time clearing them.
After that was the problem of Donatra. I'm sure many of you understand how unbreakable her shields can seem with an under-manned and underpowered team. If I had been in an escort here, we would have been utterly doomed. She would have popped us in rapid succession and we would never have maintained enough damage to get anywhere. Luckily I was flying a threat control tank, and I was able maintain aggro and keep myself alive for what seemed like 10 minutes while the three of us slowly pounded down her shields and hull.
That I was flying the Regent, and not any other ship in the game, is the only reason we won that match. I do not believe even the excelsior can match this ships performance, as the wide-angle torpedo spread combined with fire at will is a significant factor in burst damage potential, and no other ship save the oddy has enough tactical space for all of tac team, FAW, torp spread and an attack pattern.
Personally, that's what I'd recommend.
With an Excelsior, though, you have a bit more flexibility. But IMO it isn't worth it - except you MIGHT consider a single DBB up front. Some might disagree with me and it WILL weaken certain parts of your firing arc, but it will boost the strength of your forward arc.
That said, this is all IMO, your mileage may vary.
As a note, it is possible to have a build that accommodates both cruisers and escorts well. That's what I do, although your performance may be slightly below what you would get if you did extensive minmax, but I wouldn't want to do that as it would be too constricting.