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My HEC build.

wunjeewunjee Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited December 2012 in Federation Discussion
This is my beam/torp boat build for the HEC. I do mostly PvE and so far it's been pretty darned effective.

Fore:

3 blue Phaser Beam Array Mk XI [Dmg]x2
1 blue Photon Torpedo Launcher Mk XI [Dmg]x2

Aft:

2 blue Phaser Beam Array Mk XI [Dmg]x2
1 blue Photon Torpedo Launcher Mk XI [Dmg]x2

Deflector:

Blue Positron Deflector Array [SIF] [ShdS]

Engines:

Efficient Impulse Engines Mk XI

Shield:

Paratronic Shield Array Mk X!

Devices:

Red Matter Capacitor
Subspace Field Modulator

Engineering Consoles:

Torpedo Point Defense System
Blue EPS Flow Regulator Mk X
Blue Neutronium Alloy Mk X

Science Consoles:

Blue Shield Emitter Amplifier Mk XI
Blue Shield Emitter Amplifier Mk XI

Tactical Consoles:


Purple Photon Detonation Assembly Mk XI
Blue Photon Detonation Assembly Mk XI
Blue Phaser Relay Mk XI
Blue Phaser Relay Mk XI

Hangar:

Default Peregrines (Working on Advanced)

BOFFs:

Commander Tac:

Torp Spread I
Beam Fire At Will II
Torp High Yield III
APO II

Lt. Tac:

Tactical Team I
Beam Overload II

Ensign Tac:

Torp High Yield I

Lt.Cmdr Eng:

Engineering Team I
EPtoS II
RSP II

Lt. Science:

JTS I
TSS II

With this setup, I'm currently getting:

43,965 hull
9.460 shield faces
15.4% kinetic Resist
25% all other resist

Any input/advice? I don't want to use cannons on this particular build because something irks me about using cannons on a ship this size..
Post edited by wunjee on

Comments

  • mandoknight89mandoknight89 Member Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    As long as you're aware that going full beamscort will negatively impact your DPS, I don't really have anything to say about that...

    Energy Distribution Manifolds and Warhead Yield Chambers are significantly less effective than the type-based consoles, and [Dmg]x2 is a fairly weak modifier for your weapons ([Acc]x2 or x3 is better, but rarer).
  • wunjeewunjee Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    From my understanding, tho, stacking specific weapon-type consoles gives you diminishing returns? Would it be more effective to stack 2 phaser relays instead of a phaser relay and a directed energy console?
  • thepantspartythepantsparty Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    There is no diminishing returns on tac consoles, and beam arrays on an escort is an awful idea. While it might not "feel right" to you to use cannons on the ship, the purpose of escorts is to deal damage and you're significantly lowering your damage by using beams.
  • wunjeewunjee Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    There is no diminishing returns on tac consoles

    Glad that got changed back, then. Thanks for that info. Updated build.
  • lasoniolasonio Member Posts: 490 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    First of let me say this, i think that a carrier escort is the worst idea, it defeats the purpse of being a carrier by putting it on an escort.

    secondly in pve you can throw together anything and it will be successful so that's not a good barometer of power.

    personally i liked your original build, because it has a unique taste to it, just like mine, i use beams aswell and I fly an escort. The problem I see is that gamers like to put themselves in boxes and then have the unmitigated gull to say they are good or even "Elite". While looking like this guy and that guy and that guy over there and hey you in the back, yeah you, can you stand up a sec? Yeah, that guy back there doesn't he look familiar? ooooh that's right he looks like you, acts like you, plays like you, but has the audacity to tell everyone else they are doing it wrong?

    If anyone tells you that using your beams is weak, laugh at them activate bfaw and ask them if they can ht multiple enemies in PVE and PVP for 8 seconds of gloom and doom only to rinse and repeat in 6 seconds. Oh wait? They can't? Ah, that sucks. so when you get trapped in the tholian web i guess you just wait and let them shoot at you like fish in a barrel? sounds rough to me.

    I enjoy a good light show and I lights it up baby, forth of July in downtown, I'm talking about galloping baby :D

    I cn target this guy and strip that guy on the other side of the screen and every other eney i can't see of their sheilds or atleast making them use their skills prematurely and allowing the twins (Everyone that looks the same, acts the same and fights the same, and you will see it, you will see them using their 3-4 quads and turrets since for some reason everyone has to do that to be effective.) Ent! Wrong, in elites and pvp I get invites left and right and I use beams. I have to turn them down daily so I can get in some Rommy for reping.

    You may not get all the respect you deserve for your aid but because you didn't look like this guy or that guy you contributed to every ones win and survival even if they don't notice you crushing the enemy sheilds with random broadsides.

    So in closing I'm telling you, be you and don't drink the kool-aid, if you like a set and i like your set then just repo it and rep it hard, make people wonder in antipros are better then phasers, make them wonder if duals are better then beams
    Even god rested. No work ethic.
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    lasonio wrote: »
    First of let me say this, i think that a carrier escort is the worst idea, it defeats the purpse of being a carrier by putting it on an escort.

    Not really. STO does most of that by itself in how the game screws with the notion of a traditional aircraft carrier, and frankly the idea of a frontline warship able to field it's own squadron of supporting strike craft is not at all unheard of (Battlestars anyone?).

    Also keep in mind that the Armitage in-universe is bigger than most cruisers (the base Akira measured in at around 500m in length, it's not a stretch to put the Armitage, or one of the variants, at pushing 600m or more), yet it's still an "escort".
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    wunjee wrote: »
    This is my beam/torp boat build for the HEC. I do mostly PvE and so far it's been pretty darned effective.

    Any input/advice? I don't want to use cannons on this particular build because something irks me about using cannons on a ship this size..
    Hi and welcome to the forums. This is largely a community of min/maxers who are looking to improve their builds with the final goal of efficiency, be it in the form of dps or... well, what else is there, really, if we're talking STO S7?

    Your build is sub-optimal. You have stated you have unnamed personal objections to DHC use. So my input/advice is to either enjoy your build as-is, which could be improved dramatically, or to take the advice you will receive here, which will include dumping the beams for your escort.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • jacenjacen24jacenjacen24 Member Posts: 159 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Beams dont do the dmg cannons do. Now if you want beams play how you like its your game.

    See cruisers that turn really slow use beams. They hit more targets but for a lot less dmg. An escort can turn quickly and get its cannons on target and using cannon rapid fire can get all cannons an turrets shooting at one target and shield facing. As an escort you are wastin your turn rate and the only time you can get all your beams on one target is to broad side. And this build has only 5 beams.

    So less weapon slots than a cruiser you are not doing as muchdmg as them.

    You have a superior turn rate that you are wasting because beams dont require it.

    But for this build. Drop the torp tact consoles go strictly beam. It will help you more. And torps hit hull so inconsistantly that that those consoles are wasted for the most part.
  • thepantspartythepantsparty Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    lasonio wrote: »
    So in closing I'm telling you, be you and don't drink the kool-aid, if you like a set and i like your set then just repo it and rep it hard, make people wonder in antipros are better then phasers, make them wonder if duals are better then beams

    Instead of "drinking the kool-aid," or alternatively just doing things for the sake of being different, you can actually run a damage parser and find out which does more. If you want to run low-damage builds because you just like them, that's fine (although please don't queue for eSTFs while using them an expect people to carry you), but don't act like it's not very easy to measure damage and determine which build is more effective.
  • wunjeewunjee Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Here's my reasoning.

    Yes, the HEC turns fast. But it doesn't turn that fast. Good for lining up passes, but it takes time, compared to a twitch-ship with 17 turn rate, to get lined up again--which is wasted DPS. Or you could be spamming BfoW or Beam Overload while you're turning around and continuing to do damage while lining up a torpedo spread or HYT salvo.

    You've got a lot of hull for an escort, you've got a shield modifier that just about puts your shielding on par with a cruiser, you've got the Lt.Cmdr engineering slot, which is different for an escort, you've got naturally-high weapons power, you've got more tactical consoles. So I can see beam escorts still out-damaging cruisers. Not to mention attack patterns and debuffs that the cruiser probably doesn't have. Then you throw the fighters into the game...

    I've always seen the "heavy escorts" as more of a hybrid cruiser/escort then a true escort. So I build them to fit.
    But for this build. Drop the torp tact consoles go strictly beam. It will help you more. And torps hit hull so inconsistantly that that those consoles are wasted for the most part.

    Thanks for the advice. I was considering doing this anyway. Those phaser relays are expensive.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    wunjee wrote: »
    Here's my reasoning.

    Yes, the HEC turns fast. But it doesn't turn that fast. Good for lining up passes, but it takes time, compared to a twitch-ship with 17 turn rate, to get lined up again--which is wasted DPS. Or you could be spamming BfoW or Beam Overload while you're turning around and continuing to do damage while lining up a torpedo spread or HYT salvo.

    You've got a lot of hull for an escort, you've got a shield modifier that just about puts your shielding on par with a cruiser, you've got the Lt.Cmdr engineering slot, which is different for an escort, you've got naturally-high weapons power, you've got more tactical consoles. So I can see beam escorts still out-damaging cruisers. Not to mention attack patterns and debuffs that the cruiser probably doesn't have. Then you throw the fighters into the game...

    I've always seen the "heavy escorts" as more of a hybrid cruiser/escort then a true escort. So I build them to fit.



    Thanks for the advice. I was considering doing this anyway. Those phaser relays are expensive.
    It turns exactly as fast as an AE, MVAM, Qin... If you're saying that the difference between 15 and 17 make DHC unusable, I just don't know how to help you other than advice which would come across as unkind because it would sound like "Learn to pilot."

    The Armitage has the pivot of the patrol escort. Frankly, I'd take a 15 turn rate with that pivot over a 17 turn rate with a MVAM/Raptor pivot, if such a choice existed.

    Wasted dps comes in the form of a BO off of a single beam array. The correct order is HYT, BO (from a DBB) while they're traveling to the target, weapons batt to recover, CRF. The beauty of the HEC is that it can run danubes to pin the target with tractor beams while other ecsorts have to execute this alpha from under 5 km if they want a stationary target. Also EWP with doffs.

    The only justification for your build is RP or personal preference. There's no mechanical or mathematical conclusion other than the dps being sub-optimal.

    Don't take my word for it, use this.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • jacenjacen24jacenjacen24 Member Posts: 159 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I think what myself and redricky are trying to say is; There are a lot of ships out there that can do what you have this hec doin.

    If you want the hanger use the atrox with a beam build. Or the regent can do this if the hanger isnt important.

    But with the HEC you have a chance to really do some dmg. So focusing on its strengths makes a better build than trying to turn it into a mini cruiser.

    But like we said. Its a game so if you enjoy the beam build more. Than more power to ya.
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