...when days later, I still had my palmprint on my forehead.
I've deleted and rerolled far too many times. With that, I've deleted anniversary ships - FE BOFFs/gear - little things here and there - etc, etc, etc: the general it would have been generally smarter to have just bought more character slots and/or respecs. But hey, I was standing my ground on how expensive the respecs were and that PWE/Cryptic wasn't going to get my money or time that way.
S7 though - and - well, the changes to the sets. I'd have to say that the toons I deleted just before S7 are the toons I miss the most (broken builds they had, I miss them the most - even more than doing EWP powerslides in a Ody).
Consider the Mk X Borg set - worse than the preS7 Borg set.
Deflector 14k Dil
Engine 14k Dil
Shield 14k Dil
Consider the free Borg console, eh? 15k Dil
So that's 57k Dil for something (worse) than what you could pick up in a night's play for free. With the current exchange rate, that's around 509 Zen. For something folks could get for free in a night's play - even with the random chance for Omega/MACO (I had one character with full sets Mk X/Mk XI of Omega/MACO and another without a single drop) - that's going to be over a week on a single toon of Dil farming (where that Dil might have gone to something else) to get to where you could have before.
And that's just a case of looking at Mk X - will anybody even touch that or just wait until they get to Mk XI or Mk XII, eh?
But still, it was a I'm in no big rush sort of thing - knowing that it was going to be a wee while before I ever got back into PvP (though, I did have some quick pops early on for the Dil before I felt that I was just actively AFKing because of a lack of gear and decided not to queue)..
...so why the post? Well, I went ahead and decided to unlock a store item to get an idea of what that looked like. Had seen that various things were costing around 14-15-16k and wanted to get an idea on the stats/cost.
Romulan Mk XI Beams.
I had to laugh. I had to...
20,540 Dil for a 2.5% disruptor proc. The 2.5% proc's the only difference between these beams and those you can get free from a mission ([Acc]x2). Sure, these Disruptor-Plasma Beams are better than the Plasma-Disruptor Beams (+12.5% Acc, better damage, etc) - but it's still just a 2.5% disruptor proc compared to the normal ACCx2 beams - for 20.5k Dil.
@$1.80 a beam (for that 2.5% proc) and 8 beams... but wait, before you start farming or break out your wallet - don't forget these are the Mk XI. There's Mk XII...
So what on Earth does this have to do with PvP?
Consider the alt, reroll, or new player... are they going to break out the wallet or farm the Dil needed to get the basic Borg/Omega/MACO before they queue up? Are they going to bother gearing up? Might they not even know?
So they show up in their "quest gear" - and - yeah...
Used to be a case of saying go grind a little PvE - do some STFs - come back tomorrow. That's no longer the case. Now it's a case of saying go grind Rep, Dil, EC (because it starts to get expensive to do the rep) and come back...er...in a month or so? Cause any of that Dil they might have been farming for ships or consoles, well... so yeah.
So how many will be "actively" or even passively just AFKing for the Dil...? Whether they're undergeared and trying or they're just sitting there waiting for it to end... some walking away, those staying causing others to walk away... yeah, meh...
Like I mentioned in another thread, STO's not really P2W. STO's become P2P - it's not a sub model, but you're going to be paying all the same. Sure, there's an element of PM2WM - but F2P's history (unless you play by yourself or with others that ignore that aspect).
It's kind of funny, mind you - even the folks that buy Zen for Dil are complaining. 111-113 Dil per Zen - they no longer feel like they're getting their money's worth. Over a 45D/Z drop since S7 launched... remember when it was trading for almost three times as much?
I had to laugh. I had to...
/rant
edit: Oh yeah, forgot to say that if you're even going to consider the Reman set - might want to grab your Reman shields before they pull them like they did the other stuff. Heck, for that matter - I wouldn't be surprised if they start pulling anything that's close in power to something they're selling... are those Plasma ACCx2 Beams on the cutting block? Only time will tell...only time will tell, and I had to laugh - I had to...
edit2: This needed a TLDR.
S7 presents an unfortunate gear gate in PvP for new players, alt characters, or rerolls that appears to reflect a major philosophical change on Cryptic's part and the heavy influence of what one expects from Perfect World.
PvP is not PvE - where you can slum your way in replays or STFs until you can do ESTFs. PvP's elite difficulty right off the back.
Comments
Yes that hurts. If you want MK X 2 piece borg + maco you need T2. That alone takes about a week. Now to get those 57k dil you need 8 days. At least STFs now give about the same amount of dil as before and the item drops are back.
One week is still not that bad but before you simply needed 15 elite stfs for 30 edc, assuming you do not get a shield drop. That means one weekend would be enough, now you have to wait. Also 15 elite stfs gave you nice loot and dilithium, now you have to spend your dilithium.
Do these beams deal disruptor dmg or plasma dmg? Disruptor dmg and plasma+disruptor proc would be nice but you could still go for the plasma proc from a cheaper embassy console and stick to exchange weapons.
Well as a new player in any MMO you should expect that you need to gear up at lvl 50. While the grind in STO increases it is still not that bad compared to other games. If it is your first char the STFs might even be fun, you can experiment a bit with builds and after about a week you are ready to go.
Its more annoying for alts. I don't have the time for all my toons to farm rep. At least the already have their 2 piece borg + shield.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Plasma Damage
2.5% Plasma Proc
2.5% Disruptor Proc
As opposed to the mission Plasma-Disruptor Hybrids which are Disruptor Damage with the procs. The PDH have a +7.5% Accuracy and lowish damage compared to Plasma Beams with +20% Accuracy you can get.
Wish there was a way to see what's available with an unlock rather than having to unlock it. At some point, folks will have unlocked it all and posted over on STOwiki... but as it stands, it took 90 Romulan Marks, 10k EXP, 20 Industrial Energy Cells, and 20 Shield Generators to see what the Beam Arrays and Dual Beams would be.
It will take the same to see what each of them are.
And don't forget it's a 40 hour project to do each store unlock...meh.
I try not to think about it, lol.
Many games when they make a change - will do resets/respecs. That's not the case here.
At the current rate, it's 56.5k Dil per respec. A week's grinding on a single toon for the respec. How many times are things being changed, stealth nerfed/buffed, etc?
I suppose I need to go with a very bland build - instead of trying to min/max for a particular ship, etc, etc, etc. So that's my own fault.
edit: BTW, when it was @160 - it was 10 days for a respec. Almost two weeks when it was ~200. Around 20 days when it was ~300 D/Z. I can't think of another game (though it's likely) where you'd have to spend that much time farming for a respec or break out the wallet to pay for it. It was a principle thing. It's like I said in one of the improving PvP threads about the cost of respecs - if it was only 250 Zen or even 125 Zen for a respec - they would have actually gotten money out of me for them. As it stands, they've gotten $0 from me for respecs - either directly or supporting their buy Zen for Dil program in farming Dil for their folks that buy Zen for Dil.
That all sounds like too much work for me, and i'm sure i'm not alone. Pre-S7 you could make a new toon and get STF drops, but for me that've just taken the re-playability out of the game. Which in itself was a from of endgame content.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
And all that's before you even get to the rep passives themselves, at which point it not only discourages making new alts, but even maintaining existing alts that already are geared out. Then to add insult on top of it all, patching out minor shortcuts to the grind like Acamar for the patrol daily seems to take priority and get faster dev response then fixing real issues like known exploits and broken starbase projects.
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.
Yeah this is hitting me too,
In a stroke of genious/stupidity i arranged.. 'transporter accidents' for two of my toons, a ferengi female and leathean, for the episode re-runs in December
Now i have two nice toons.. well one slightly botched one with skills, but it was more a melorazine-test
But getting into stfs.. and the rehash-fleet-reputation rubbish is irritating the life out of me!
Grind some elite stfs (feeling a bit guilty im popping a lot) without the asimilated set or mkx gear, which we have to pay for and essentially wait 3days to BUY the flipping things after the grind is done. After a week? of gate-grind to unlock the ability to buy? GRAHH i really dislike.
i think all im bothering with on these two new toons is the assim engines for faster sector space. can not be bothered with Energy Credit sink that is the repuation system, then paying waaaay too much dilithium for sub-par equipment.
On a pve note, i think this is why it takes ages for a stf pug to begin now (compared to pre S7) and when you get in your blessed with bad players too!
but yeah, not good overall, really dislike reputations, and the fearful thing? i vaugely rember/get the idea that other things, like a dominion/jemhadar repuatation set will be the future. pay dilithium for 'pre stfs sets' that takes a week to get when you could have gotten a better grade, for free, in less time.
oy...
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
Inferior alternatives don't increase accessibility.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
I do not min/max that hard in my specs so I do not have to respec that often. Also as a lifetime member all my chars have a few respecs for free. So far I didn't need to bu additional ones (ok it might also help that I have so many toon and don't really play my very first anymore).
Well MMO's have come a long way. In Dark Age of Camelot there were no respecs at release. Some balance/skill changes did grant you a free one and they introduced a onetime use respec stone drop at some point. Of course this stone only droped at raid bosses. You could buy it from other players though, quite expensive.
Sometime I wonder why I enjoyed a game with so much hardship so much more than anything that exists today. Probably because it had awesome pvp.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Well, I wanted to ask if it is worth to return and roll new character (which means I could get what I could get via Exchange and PvE quest rewards). It seems that it will be better if I stay away from STO for some more time. Or forever?
It's kind of funny, because I had forgotten about this when I decided to do the last reroll of my four guys. Mind you, it's not a ha-ha funny - one of those boot to the head funny things.
$5 per respec.
For $15, you get a respec per rank per toon.
Four toons, 2 Fed & 2 KDF:
LCdr, Cmdr, Capt, RA, VA (can't remember if it lists one for RALH/RAUH) = 5-6 respecs
Cmdr, Capt, BG/MG, LG (again, can't remember if it lists one for BG & MG) = 4-5 respecs
So that's 18-22 respecs for $15. That's $90-110 just in respecs (not counting the other things you get to keep from subscribing for a month).
With what I last read about what you keep after going from Gold to Silver - well, heck - that'd be an additional character slot on top of that - plus all the various things you keep. Subscribing for a single month is the best value STO has to offer. For a second month? Nah - but one month - insanely awesome deal.
Yeah, one of those boot to the head funny things - I should have sub'd for a month when doing that wipe 'n reroll.
I'm still tempted to do that - losing any rep progress I've made. My toons have nothing "special" on them that I wouldn't still have access to that I've bought from the C-Store or couldn't just buy on the Exchange again.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
The tooltips* it gives me:
Plasma-Disruptor Hybrid Beam Array (Past Imperfect)
216.5 Disruptor Dmg (173.2 DPS)
2.5% 11.4 Plasma DoT
+7.5% Accuracy
2.5% -10.8 DR
Plasma Beam Array Mk XI [ACC]x2 (Project Nightingale)
215.2 Plasma Dmg (172.2 DPS)
2.5% 23.2 Plasma DoT
+20% Accuracy
0.0% -X DR**
Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XI [Acc]x2 (20,540 Dil from the store after unlock)
215.2 Plasma Dmg (172.2 DPS)
2.5% 23.2 Plasma DoT
+20% Accuracy
2.5% -10.5 DR
*I still chuckle at the new Paratrinic Shield Array Mk X! (yes, it says X! instead of XI and the stats on it are garbage according to the tooltip...meh).
**There's no -DR on the beam, but I included the 0% chance for formatting reasons.
Ya know to be honest its not that big a deal... don't get me wrong if you really must have mk xii sets of maco or omega its kinda of a pain.
Really though since the borg set has gotten its rightful smack down. I have been running mostly setups that really don't use much stf gear.
Aegis is easily obtainable buy anyone... fleet shields and even engines if you are part of a fleet that has unlocked them.
My escorts have been running 2 aegis with maco shielding and thats sweet... but really the fleet resistant shield would work just as well... even a good MK XII resist shield would be 95% as good as well. I could have a new toon into that setup pretty easy and ya it would preform just fine in PvP.
To be honesty all the terrible new players I see in pvp would do better to dump there STF gear get a proper hyper impulse engine and a defelector that in fact boosted the stuff they where using... and put a proper shield on instead of a omega/borg that they can't keep hard enough or a KHG they can't refill. The maco shield is about the only STF shield that is stupid proof.
Not to worry, they are redoing the crafting system into a rep system, so rest assured Aegis will be part of the time gated content.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Consider the new player, alt, or reroll.
Mk X Assimilated Deflector
450 Omega Marks
14,000 Dilithium
10,000 Expertise
30 Communication Arrays
Mk XI Assimilated Deflector
675 Omega Marks
18,000 Dilithium
32,000 Expertise
50 Communication Arrays
25 Industrial Energy Cells
Mk XII Assimilated Deflector
? Omega Marks
? Dilithium
? Expertise
? Communication Arrays
? Industrial Energy Cells
? Something else?
Mk X = T1, Mk XI = T3, Mk XII = T5
It makes no sense in the least to buy Mk X. Getting to T3 just doesn't take long enough to justify it (and you're going to be working on the Omega Marks and Dilithium as you get to T3 to buy the set (2025 Omega Marks & 54000 Dilithium). That's not counting any other items that you're looking to buy as well, consoles and weapons (weapons provide a similar issue).
Which starts to beg the question, is it even worth it to make those purchases at T3 or just to wait until you hit T5? Yes, T3->T5 is much longer than T1->T3 (32,500->100,000 vs 15,000->32,500)... but if you're looking at multiple toons...
I don't know, it's just kind of mind boggling that somebody would grind that much Dil or Omega Marks for something they know they're going to trash later. Perhaps if they could upgrade the Mk X to Mk XI to Mk XII... it would be different.
As it stands, though - for that new player, reroll, or alt - that's a very long road. They're choices are:
"Waste" time/money for the lesser sets to have somewhat equivalent gear.
Play without somewhat equivalent gear, trying to find some enjoyment in that.
Wait until they reach T5.
Forget about PvP.
This isn't an issue that's faced on the PvE side. Maybe you'd get laughed out of an ESTF... but there's always the regular STFs. There's no such separation on the PvP side.
So I would say go for the MK X version and just stick with it. Once you hit T5 and have some dil to spare you can upgrade but there is no need to hurry.
Actually before the rep system I did not bother to get all my toons MK XII as well. Just made enough STFs to get 2 piece borg and buy an MK X shield if I did not get lucky with a drop. After that I made some STFs from time to time and did upgrade some chars if I got lucky but I never worried much about getting all MK XII.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
The info at STOwiki's wrong in regard to what the rewards are on STFs/ESTFs.
Never pulled more than 19 from Infected but I've pulled 115 from Infected Elite. Even failing the optional gives 60.