So I'm looking for escort captains opinions here. So far I only have one Fed character, a science. But I think I'm gonna buy myself two character slots so I can level up a Tac and Engi. As for account wide ships, I've already purchased the Regent and the science Vesta. So which escort should I choose for my account? Both the Defiant and the Armatage have fleet versions. Defiant has that third ensign tac ability (which I'm not so sure about ). Armatage is a little more tanky, but Defiant has massive firepower. But Armatage has fighters. But I don't know if I want to micromanage. I just can't decide! What are your experiences/opinions /advice on these two escorts? Thanks!
Joseph
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Seems like Defiant would be the best at straight-up killinating, but not much else. Armitage, with that LtCmdr eng and the fighter bay, isn't going to have quite the firepower, but more flexibility. Of course if you're really thinking Fleet versions, Defiant is available at T3, whereas Armitage isn't till T5.
Before I get to the rest of my post, I'll lay this out flat: they will both utterly annihilate your target. These two ships are the top escorts in the game, and escorts are the top ships (and then there's the jemmy... let's not get into that).
Now to take a closer look at the details of them.
Defiant: My main ship is a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit, so I can tell you exactly what this ship is about. Absolute destruction. You won't find another Federation ship with as much raw power as the Tactical Escort Retrofit. Its consoles: a pretty good layout, 3/2/4 (eng, sci, tac) or 3/2/5 for the fleet one. Yeah. Big Badda Boom. The boff stations: a little diappointing in my opinion, the ensign tac slot isn't neccessary. You can put TT1 there, but that's pretty much all it's useful for. Still, the boffs are the most tactically oriented setup on the Fed side (with maybe the exception of the Aquarius, if you want to count that fragile and almost useless thing). You can get in two copies of CRF, TT, APB, and CSV/BO/APO/whatever. But then for eng, you can only get two copies of EPtS and no other eng abilities. For science you also get only two abilities, I use HE and TSS. Then there's the cloak. When you have as much firepower as one ship can have, the only thing better is getting to take the first shot. And in a lot of cases, by the time yoru target can react and start hitting his weapons and boff abilities, they're already dead (unless we're talking a really tough ship like a big cruiser or carrier). Not to mention the 15% MORE damage from decloaking. So in all, the Defiant's a killing machine, nothing less.
HEC: The differences between the TER/F-TER and the HEC aren't really that big. strip off the toys, and here's the comparison:
Consoles: Identical for the c store versions (3/2/4). So if you don't want to spend extra for the fleet versions, this isn't even a consideration. But the F-HEC has an fourth eng slot (compared to the F-TER's fifth tactical), literally putting the slots on par with some T5 cruisers. It still has the four tac slots, so it gets firepower.
Boffs: Almost the same between them the two ships, just that the TER's ltc. tactical and lt. eng get switched around. That extra eng ability makes a difference. It could be RSP, ET, you name it.
Etc. (I'm only going to name differences among the minor stuff): turn rate: the HEC lags just one degree per second. It makes no difference really. Crew: the HEC has 200, four times the TER's. Hull: It has 2000 more.
Now the HEC's toys are what give it the real excellence. The hanger bay lets you get extra dps, or slap on danubes and now four tractor beams are flying around. The photon point defense is also great, combine it with a Torpedo Spread 3 photon launcher and... I didn't know a ship of that size holds that many torpedoes - let alone fire all of them at once. Conclusion: The HEC is a bit tankier and has some flexibility for dps or CC with its hanger pets, plus its point defense will take care of those annoying heavy plasma torpedoes.
Final Comparison between the Tactical Escort Retrofit and Heavy Escort Carrier:
When it boils down to it, there's not much difference here. They both tank excellenty (that's just how unbalanced escorts are) and have massive DPS. Either way, you're going to survive and destroy in these ships so picking which one you want is a personal preferance. I chose the Defiant because it cloaks. But that was after being torn between that and the Armitage for weeks. So the choice is really up to which toys you want and if you want a tad more survivability or firepower.
EDIT (for those who read this before the post was finished) I added the HEC part.
If you mean buy with cash, there's the Steamrunner Pack, it nets you a very nice T1 ship, a skill point boost, and a couple of BOffs with decent ground abilities/traits(OK space too, but nothing that isn't trainable) to help kick-start your new toons. The T1 ship comes with a console that buffs your ship's shields and stops normal bleedthrough (a great help on the lower Tier ships), and you take the console and fit it in any ship, so you can keep it with you as you level.
Then, once you hit level 50, you can you unpack the T5 variant of the Steamrunner. It is a beastly thing having the firepower of the non-fleet Defiant, but can out-tank a non-fleet Armitage! 4 Eng, 2 Sci, 4 Tac console layout. Top escort class hull with 34,500 base HP, and a cruiser-class 1.0 shield modifier. No wasted ensign Tac and 4 total engineering abilities. Though, oddly, it has only one Ensign Science Officer spot. Full Specs: http://www.stowiki.org/Blockade_Runner_Escort_Retrofit
I really like the T5 'Runner. Coming from an Armitage, it's a nice boost in damage with it's better Tac layout (Commander and Lieutenant Commander) and a decent boost in tanking with higher hull HP and shield modifier. The only real downsides are it's looks (it takes some getting used to), it's lack of Sci powers even for an escort, and it feels odd not having many toys. No hangars to launch, and the only console is from the T1 ship makes it feel kinda plain after flying the Armitage, and having a Vesta 3-pack on another toon. Of course, you can always fit it with other universals, and I have the Thunderchild's Point Defence system in a Eng slot. I'm flying it as my main on my Engineer, and the Tac toon I'm leveling will likely go in it when it hits 50.
Seems like Defiant would be the best at straight-up killinating, but not much else. Armitage, with that LtCmdr eng and the fighter bay, isn't going to have quite the firepower, but more flexibility. Of course if you're really thinking Fleet versions, Defiant is available at T3, whereas Armitage isn't till T5.
Actually, the Armitage actually does more damage in eSTFs and less against ships (ie SB24). The fighters make up a ton of ground in hull heavy target rich environments due to all the torpedos fighters launch.
The Fleet defiant is where you actually need to make a tough decision, and at that point you're actually better off in a Fleet MVAE for PvE, especially with the new Romulan weapons and embassy plasma sci consoles.
Voporak is right. If you want utter demolition, pure destruction, straight outright unadulterated obliteration, your best bet is the fleet defiant/defiant-R. There are few ships that can keep up with it in straight out damage ability, and none that can burst as hard (except maybe the fleet prometheus). If you point that things nose at something, as long as it isn't a boss class ship, you're pretty much guaranteed to kill it in your first pass. If that. Probably about halfway through it. The only weakness the fleet defiant has is that annoying little tactical ensign. That semi-forces you to use a torpedo/DBB (TS, THY, BO) or just leave it empty. I actually have friends that do both, and their fleet defiants still rip things apart.
The armitage is a nasty ship as well. Not only does it have the speed, turn, and firepower of an escort, but it also has fighters. And those can be... well let's just say they can turn the tide of a fight. One or two squads of runabouts, and your target is pretty much boned. The fighters give the armitage heavy CC ability, or in some cases (Depending on your choice in pets) even more raw dps. In some cases, those fighters can actually push you past a defiant in dps, and certainly give you much more entertainment. The armitage also comes with that nasty point defense console that enables you to TRIBBLE out a mass of torpedoes once every few minutes. As burst damage goes, that's huge, especially on unshielded/squishy targets.
As the ships themselves go, they are about equal in maneuverability, speed, and overall tankiness. The defiant is smaller, and as such it's smaller sprite gives it a better turn rate (turn axis is pretty much dead center which means it can get it's guns around faster), but other than that, the ships handle very similarly, if not identically.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Before I get to the rest of my post, I'll lay this out flat: they will both utterly annihilate your target. These two ships are the top escorts in the game, and escorts are the top ships (and then there's the jemmy... let's not get into that).
Now to take a closer look at the details of them.
Defiant: My main ship is a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit, so I can tell you exactly what this ship is about. Absolute destruction. You won't find another Federation ship with as much raw power as the Tactical Escort Retrofit. Its consoles: a pretty good layout, 3/2/4 (eng, sci, tac) or 3/2/5 for the fleet one. Yeah. Big Badda Boom. The boff stations: a little diappointing in my opinion, the ensign tac slot isn't neccessary. You can put TT1 there, but that's pretty much all it's useful for. Still, the boffs are the most tactically oriented setup on the Fed side (with maybe the exception of the Aquarius, if you want to count that fragile and almost useless thing). You can get in two copies of CRF, TT, APB, and CSV/BO/APO/whatever. But then for eng, you can only get two copies of EPtS and no other eng abilities. For science you also get only two abilities, I use HE and TSS. Then there's the cloak. When you have as much firepower as one ship can have, the only thing better is getting to take the first shot. And in a lot of cases, by the time yoru target can react and start hitting his weapons and boff abilities, they're already dead (unless we're talking a really tough ship like a big cruiser or carrier). Not to mention the 15% MORE damage from decloaking. So in all, the Defiant's a killing machine, nothing less.
HEC: The differences between the TER/F-TER and the HEC aren't really that big. strip off the toys, and here's the comparison:
Consoles: Identical for the c store versions (3/2/4). So if you don't want to spend extra for the fleet versions, this isn't even a consideration. But the F-HEC has an fourth eng slot (compared to the F-TER's fifth tactical), literally putting the slots on par with some T5 cruisers. It still has the four tac slots, so it gets firepower.
Boffs: Almost the same between them the two ships, just that the TER's ltc. tactical and lt. eng get switched around. That extra eng ability makes a difference. It could be RSP, ET, you name it.
Etc. (I'm only going to name differences among the minor stuff): turn rate: the HEC lags just one degree per second. It makes no difference really. Crew: the HEC has 200, four times the TER's. Hull: It has 2000 more.
Now the HEC's toys are what give it the real excellence. The hanger bay lets you get extra dps, or slap on danubes and now four tractor beams are flying around. The photon point defense is also great, combine it with a Torpedo Spread 3 photon launcher and... I didn't know a ship of that size holds that many torpedoes - let alone fire all of them at once. Conclusion: The HEC is a bit tankier and has some flexibility for dps or CC with its hanger pets, plus its point defense will take care of those annoying heavy plasma torpedoes.
Final Comparison between the Tactical Escort Retrofit and Heavy Escort Carrier:
When it boils down to it, there's not much difference here. They both tank excellenty (that's just how unbalanced escorts are) and have massive DPS. Either way, you're going to survive and destroy in these ships so picking which one you want is a personal preferance. I chose the Defiant because it cloaks. But that was after being torn between that and the Armitage for weeks. So the choice is really up to which toys you want and if you want a tad more survivability or firepower.
EDIT (for those who read this before the post was finished) I added the HEC part.
Thanks for the response. I've got some things to think about for sure! And I've always played my one science captain, but I'm assuming a Tactical character will get even more out of an escort.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
I love my HEC. I've tried plenty of other Escorts but the Armitage is what I always come back to. Outfit it with Advanced Danubes to be your little partners in crime. They'll lock down your target with their tractor beams while you punch it in the face with your cannons. Never gets old.
Comments
Despite the things released since.
There is that to consider.
And they are BOTH really good ships, to be honest.
Now to take a closer look at the details of them.
Defiant: My main ship is a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit, so I can tell you exactly what this ship is about. Absolute destruction. You won't find another Federation ship with as much raw power as the Tactical Escort Retrofit. Its consoles: a pretty good layout, 3/2/4 (eng, sci, tac) or 3/2/5 for the fleet one. Yeah. Big Badda Boom. The boff stations: a little diappointing in my opinion, the ensign tac slot isn't neccessary. You can put TT1 there, but that's pretty much all it's useful for. Still, the boffs are the most tactically oriented setup on the Fed side (with maybe the exception of the Aquarius, if you want to count that fragile and almost useless thing). You can get in two copies of CRF, TT, APB, and CSV/BO/APO/whatever. But then for eng, you can only get two copies of EPtS and no other eng abilities. For science you also get only two abilities, I use HE and TSS. Then there's the cloak. When you have as much firepower as one ship can have, the only thing better is getting to take the first shot. And in a lot of cases, by the time yoru target can react and start hitting his weapons and boff abilities, they're already dead (unless we're talking a really tough ship like a big cruiser or carrier). Not to mention the 15% MORE damage from decloaking. So in all, the Defiant's a killing machine, nothing less.
HEC: The differences between the TER/F-TER and the HEC aren't really that big. strip off the toys, and here's the comparison:
Consoles: Identical for the c store versions (3/2/4). So if you don't want to spend extra for the fleet versions, this isn't even a consideration. But the F-HEC has an fourth eng slot (compared to the F-TER's fifth tactical), literally putting the slots on par with some T5 cruisers. It still has the four tac slots, so it gets firepower.
Boffs: Almost the same between them the two ships, just that the TER's ltc. tactical and lt. eng get switched around. That extra eng ability makes a difference. It could be RSP, ET, you name it.
Etc. (I'm only going to name differences among the minor stuff): turn rate: the HEC lags just one degree per second. It makes no difference really. Crew: the HEC has 200, four times the TER's. Hull: It has 2000 more.
Now the HEC's toys are what give it the real excellence. The hanger bay lets you get extra dps, or slap on danubes and now four tractor beams are flying around. The photon point defense is also great, combine it with a Torpedo Spread 3 photon launcher and... I didn't know a ship of that size holds that many torpedoes - let alone fire all of them at once. Conclusion: The HEC is a bit tankier and has some flexibility for dps or CC with its hanger pets, plus its point defense will take care of those annoying heavy plasma torpedoes.
Final Comparison between the Tactical Escort Retrofit and Heavy Escort Carrier:
When it boils down to it, there's not much difference here. They both tank excellenty (that's just how unbalanced escorts are) and have massive DPS. Either way, you're going to survive and destroy in these ships so picking which one you want is a personal preferance. I chose the Defiant because it cloaks. But that was after being torn between that and the Armitage for weeks. So the choice is really up to which toys you want and if you want a tad more survivability or firepower.
EDIT (for those who read this before the post was finished) I added the HEC part.
With the Steam pack, you get a T1 version and a T5 Rear Admiral version.
Then, once you hit level 50, you can you unpack the T5 variant of the Steamrunner. It is a beastly thing having the firepower of the non-fleet Defiant, but can out-tank a non-fleet Armitage! 4 Eng, 2 Sci, 4 Tac console layout. Top escort class hull with 34,500 base HP, and a cruiser-class 1.0 shield modifier. No wasted ensign Tac and 4 total engineering abilities. Though, oddly, it has only one Ensign Science Officer spot. Full Specs: http://www.stowiki.org/Blockade_Runner_Escort_Retrofit
I really like the T5 'Runner. Coming from an Armitage, it's a nice boost in damage with it's better Tac layout (Commander and Lieutenant Commander) and a decent boost in tanking with higher hull HP and shield modifier. The only real downsides are it's looks (it takes some getting used to), it's lack of Sci powers even for an escort, and it feels odd not having many toys. No hangars to launch, and the only console is from the T1 ship makes it feel kinda plain after flying the Armitage, and having a Vesta 3-pack on another toon. Of course, you can always fit it with other universals, and I have the Thunderchild's Point Defence system in a Eng slot. I'm flying it as my main on my Engineer, and the Tac toon I'm leveling will likely go in it when it hits 50.
Edit: ninja'd, but at I went into more detail.
Actually, the Armitage actually does more damage in eSTFs and less against ships (ie SB24). The fighters make up a ton of ground in hull heavy target rich environments due to all the torpedos fighters launch.
The Fleet defiant is where you actually need to make a tough decision, and at that point you're actually better off in a Fleet MVAE for PvE, especially with the new Romulan weapons and embassy plasma sci consoles.
The armitage is a nasty ship as well. Not only does it have the speed, turn, and firepower of an escort, but it also has fighters. And those can be... well let's just say they can turn the tide of a fight. One or two squads of runabouts, and your target is pretty much boned. The fighters give the armitage heavy CC ability, or in some cases (Depending on your choice in pets) even more raw dps. In some cases, those fighters can actually push you past a defiant in dps, and certainly give you much more entertainment. The armitage also comes with that nasty point defense console that enables you to TRIBBLE out a mass of torpedoes once every few minutes. As burst damage goes, that's huge, especially on unshielded/squishy targets.
As the ships themselves go, they are about equal in maneuverability, speed, and overall tankiness. The defiant is smaller, and as such it's smaller sprite gives it a better turn rate (turn axis is pretty much dead center which means it can get it's guns around faster), but other than that, the ships handle very similarly, if not identically.
Thanks for the response. I've got some things to think about for sure! And I've always played my one science captain, but I'm assuming a Tactical character will get even more out of an escort.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk