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The Practical Use of Tric Mines/Tipler Console
paxottoman
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Well here we are again...
In this video, nobody was using Voldemort. The tric bombers were using target engines/viral to deliver average of 35k per mine hits on their opponents.
We separated ourselves from the fight after one kill to see how far they would go with them 2 vs 5. Here was the results:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKA625XUf4&feature=plcp
This is happening daily in the queues. People are getting tric bombed all the time. The sheer amount of damage done by these mines is just absurd. A lot of PvP fleets have ruled out the use of buffed tricobalt mines from their premades.
This is a practical video of what happens in the queues. Acknowledge there being something wrong with the picture, or you can continue to call this whatever you want to call it. The guys dropping the mines by no means were a PvP Fleet, they really aren't learning anything from being a 1 'tric' pony. So in the interest of maintaining some kind of fairness for those that are the majority in this video, I suggest a thorough review and recommend a 75% reduction in damage to the tricobalt mines.
A) They disable, its potently good enough when spec'd into decompiler
They deploy 2 or more with each dispersal pattern
C) 10k per mine with AOE explosions (the only mine that does it), doesn't gimp it. 3 mines 30k damage to target is not bad. And AOE to anything near the target, still potent, and AOE friendly
Just imagine if Turkish RP Heroes ran tricobalt mines on everyone. The raging and ranting would be immense. Our trics would hit on average around 50k+ per mine hit. These German Snake Division guys hit at 35k per mine. I am not saying there is no counter, but there is an overwhelming punishment dealt by these mines to people who even try their best to stop them.
The group in this video employed TBR, gravity well, faw. They were unsuccessful for the most part, and worst of all they out numbered their opponents 5 to 2.
They managed to kill the Apophis guy around 4 times during the video before we had enough of watching it. The guy in the time ship, despite fighting 5v1 (I know it's possible without tipler console) held out almost exclusively due to the tipler console. A crutch in essence is in effect for those that use that console. Not to bash on anyone, but 9th Snake Division is a PvE fleet, they blew up cubes with trics now are doing this in the queues.
Just because STFS were too hard for some, I don't think tricobalts should of been an easy solution for them to get their STF fix. The implications of that decision are in this video.
Some of you may advocate the use of trics being ok, the torpedos sure. In fact they have a self damage deal that is reasonable. These tric mines should AT LEAST damage their own upon AOE explosions as well just like their torpedo counterpart.
I'll conclude by saying that 3 of our Turkish RP Heroe guys played against 5 Klingons. Winning short handed is possible, but difficult. We did not use tricobalt mines, the result was 15-9. We're a PvP hardened fleet, the Snake Division isn't, and they showed great ease with demonstrating the easy use of tricobalts.
Will you nerf tricobalt mines and tipler console?
In this video, nobody was using Voldemort. The tric bombers were using target engines/viral to deliver average of 35k per mine hits on their opponents.
We separated ourselves from the fight after one kill to see how far they would go with them 2 vs 5. Here was the results:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKA625XUf4&feature=plcp
This is happening daily in the queues. People are getting tric bombed all the time. The sheer amount of damage done by these mines is just absurd. A lot of PvP fleets have ruled out the use of buffed tricobalt mines from their premades.
This is a practical video of what happens in the queues. Acknowledge there being something wrong with the picture, or you can continue to call this whatever you want to call it. The guys dropping the mines by no means were a PvP Fleet, they really aren't learning anything from being a 1 'tric' pony. So in the interest of maintaining some kind of fairness for those that are the majority in this video, I suggest a thorough review and recommend a 75% reduction in damage to the tricobalt mines.
A) They disable, its potently good enough when spec'd into decompiler
They deploy 2 or more with each dispersal patternC) 10k per mine with AOE explosions (the only mine that does it), doesn't gimp it. 3 mines 30k damage to target is not bad. And AOE to anything near the target, still potent, and AOE friendly
Just imagine if Turkish RP Heroes ran tricobalt mines on everyone. The raging and ranting would be immense. Our trics would hit on average around 50k+ per mine hit. These German Snake Division guys hit at 35k per mine. I am not saying there is no counter, but there is an overwhelming punishment dealt by these mines to people who even try their best to stop them.
The group in this video employed TBR, gravity well, faw. They were unsuccessful for the most part, and worst of all they out numbered their opponents 5 to 2.
They managed to kill the Apophis guy around 4 times during the video before we had enough of watching it. The guy in the time ship, despite fighting 5v1 (I know it's possible without tipler console) held out almost exclusively due to the tipler console. A crutch in essence is in effect for those that use that console. Not to bash on anyone, but 9th Snake Division is a PvE fleet, they blew up cubes with trics now are doing this in the queues.
Just because STFS were too hard for some, I don't think tricobalts should of been an easy solution for them to get their STF fix. The implications of that decision are in this video.
Some of you may advocate the use of trics being ok, the torpedos sure. In fact they have a self damage deal that is reasonable. These tric mines should AT LEAST damage their own upon AOE explosions as well just like their torpedo counterpart.
I'll conclude by saying that 3 of our Turkish RP Heroe guys played against 5 Klingons. Winning short handed is possible, but difficult. We did not use tricobalt mines, the result was 15-9. We're a PvP hardened fleet, the Snake Division isn't, and they showed great ease with demonstrating the easy use of tricobalts.
Will you nerf tricobalt mines and tipler console?
Turkish RP Heroes
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by paxottoman on
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don't use the damn tric mines.
Hmmm, consider this a Facebook "LIKE" :P
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
--call me when u bring back big pvp, u *******
Make a major balance pass if possible, otherwise at least bar them from being equipped on escorts and I'll rest contented.
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQUPsMxkTts <--- Moar footage of what tric mines are like in practice
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Anyway, I'm seeing stuff that says "8 sec stun (half duration v. player)" on some of the ground stuff.
So clearly it's possible to have a double standard. Given the obvious nature of inflated NPC HP it's pretty easily justifiable that trics would do 1/4 damage against a player.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Bwahaha! Ok, that was honestly really good actually. Oh man, that was way more funny than you probably intended.
Alrighty, that aside, I won't deny at all the potency of tric mines. That said, the problem with them isn't the damage, or AoE effect, or disable, it's the fact that you can use Dispersal patterns with them. In the past, you could only ever lay one tric mine (probably to prevent the very issues we're having now) at a time. With the mine revamp, that was changed.
I feel the best solution would just be to remove them being used with Dispersal patterns, and most of this might disappear over night, because the real danger, I feel, comes from people using dispersal patterns on trics.
Regardless, if they took a hit, I wouldn't like it, but I could certainly understand it.
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Npcs can't counter them
They are a excelled tool to further destroy pvp
Perhaps that's what is intended ?
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
1) a tric mine takes effort to lay properly, not to mention takes 2 skill slots away due to the additional disable skill needed to set it up.
2) Long cooldown.
3) Mines can be destroyed or countered.
Trics doing a hell load of damage makes sense. Don't nerf things just because its not a quantum.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
I have a friend who was itching for the new pack and bought three blues already. Started using them, and found that while they can help, even if all three proc, you'll still have at least a 30 second cooldown roughly on tric mines.
From what I can gather, they can be useful to make equipping only one tric mine, instead of two. Along with really helping quicker reloading mines, can anybody say mega-Chroniton mine spam?
Besides, even with tac initiative, still gotta wait on mine abilities to reset regardless.
The only real 'abuse' I can think of outta the new PWO doff is that there could be a bit of a bug/exploit that would, when you use another mine, make the DOFF proc reduce the CDs of both mines. If that happens, then yeah, could be nasty potentially, but at least mine abilities would still balance it out somewhat.
But silly PvPers, trics are for kids!
(Are we really going to make this go the way of the Gorn?)
That added with the Tipler Console can be even worse then just the simple Tricobalt Mine by it's self.
TRicobalt Mines before the change and introduction of the bug, were fine. I don't recall seeing them getting kills as often.
So please, stop trying to get Tricobalt Mines nerfed when they alone are not the cause of such much grief. :rolleyes:
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I do acknowledge that AoE can deal with them to some degree, but AoE cannot be up all the time. Therefore, I believe that the following steps would be nice:
1. Check for the multi-crit bug. I'm not sure if this is still present, but there was this bug/feature where if one tric mine critted, all the others would too. If it is still there, remove it.
2. When we use HYT, each torpedo in the salvo of 4 does less damage than a single normal torpedo. Such a damage reduction on the use of dispersal patterns, just enough to nerf them slightly, would go a long way to helping us deal with multiple mines.
3. In the case of Tipler Cylinder, the mines launched should not arm themselves while within the time stop. If they do not as it is, maybe the Cylinder's effect could reset the arming timer on mines? If they are already armed, the time-stop would switch your own team's mines into offline mode, forcing them to have to rearm.
PWO works that way, why wouldn't PWO-M work that way?
Say you're sporting Trans and Plas Torps. You fire the Trans. You fire the Plas next. The PWO from the Plas can reduce the recharge for both the Trans and the Plas. You fire another Trans. That PWO can reduce the recharge for the Trans and the Plas as well.
As for the DPB...break out some AtB.
The thing you'd have to watch out for is the 12s triggered CD caused by one launcher on another. Given the PWO-Ms, you'd likely not be bothered with the individual CDs on the non-Tric mines - but you're still going to be looking at that 12s triggered CD on a secondary. If you paired the Tric with Photon (15s) or Plasma (16s) - the PWO-M dropping the individual CD down... you could "spam" them to reduce the time to DPB the Trics (again, you're running AtB for the DPB)...
...it's almost worth breaking out a spreadsheet to see what the theoretical speed of dropping out DPB'd Trics could be when paired with another launcher.
I might later... it's not a 4 AM sort of thing though, lol.
I said they would be OP. They said upon release their proc rate on whites be 5%, greens 10%, blues 15% and purples 20%. They doubled the proc rate despite the staunch opposition to their launch.
In junction with SN Doffs, tric mines, and the viral doffs you have yourself the most over powering build you can ask for without needing hardly any team support.
FYI You can stack up to 3 Viral Doffs.
TRH will be producing another video for you all to see this in action.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This ^^^ all the other stuff .....neh
Here is a non video of a pre-made fleeeeeet using a 2xesocrts, 2xi ships and a 1xcarrier, all have danooobe pets and DHC, nerf DHC please, thanks.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Another easy fix: use them and get a copy of TBRs in your team. :P
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
The only real problem I see here is the use of tricobalts in conjunction with the tipler console. Without this console tricobalt mines are perfectly fine and there are enough ways to avoid or getting rid of them.
Exactly. Its the bug associared with dispersal patterns that if one crits they all crit
A single tricobalt mine is a defendable attack, even a crit most times.
I think those whom keep complaining about how bad the Tric mine "are" in combat know that DpB is to blaim instead but following thier own goals they ignore it.
Seperate Trics from Dispersal patterns and the problem goes away.
R.I.P
Tricobalt Mines got you down?
Can't keep your AOE's up to keep them down?
Have no fear! Auxilery to Battery x 2 + 3 Technician Duty officers are right for you!
Behold as all your Bridge officer powers become Global Cool down!
Eject Warp Plasma fading too fast? No problem! With the Aux 2 Bat combo, it never disappears!
So hurry while supplies are going fast!
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I have a twinATB build I greatly enjoy. Its a quick build but hardly inbalanced or invulnerable.
Are some begining to cry about them too?
Pity STO, through poor balancing and a history of neglect for PvP, sound like it is turning the game into an enviroment that dislikes new ideas.
R.I.P
Oh snap.
PS: Klingons not having a real science vessel is a legit concern. As is Feds not having battle cloak. Which is pretty funny cos on Fed side we find SVs the middle child in our ships of the line, and Klinks bemoan how squishy and useless their BoPs (and cloak in general) are. Perhaps a trade is in order! :P
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
get a specific power in a pug team? na. thats not going to happen. even when critz runs a full team thats rarely something we see as part of a real gameplan, because its a counter to a specific piece of overpowered cheese right now. we would rather work on better CC choices that lend to our kill cycle. (pushing people away and out of our escort's firing arcs is not good CC)
have fun kill bad guys
Have you seen the price of Techs lately?
750-800k for a Blue.
That's why it's worth critting Support B'Tran; you get a purple technician there.
Did I say combat trics? Instead of combat players? Yup. LoL people would be more fetched on fighting tricobalts with a lot more emphasis on counter those than their opponents ability to say throw in virals? warp plasma of their own? gravity wells of their own? target engines? graviton pulse? LoL let's not all forget all the other fancy stuff the other guys can do too...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Seperating Trics from Dispersal patterns would make them downright useless. A single tricobalt mine is so easily dealt with players would immediatly stop using mines again and it would be like half a year ago when only some newbies ever equipped mines on their ships.
But I have to agree regarding the crit issue. This also affects other weapons like the Plasma DoT which can be equally deadly to low-hullpoint ships.
:rolleyes: Your all on a bandwagon to nerf Tricobalt Mines. When up until the change to Dispersal Pattern Beta, Tricobalt Mines were not a threat. Take away Dispersal Pattern Beta, and they are still not a threat like they are now. The problem is NOT the Tricobalt Mines. The problem is when this happens..
Player A Equips Tricobalt Mines on his ship, then Activates a Dispersal Pattern Beta 1, 2, or 3 (3 being the worst culperate)
Player A then Deploys his 2,3 or 4 Tricobalt Mines all at once.
One of those Tricobalt Mines then not only hits, but CRITS..that means the remaining Tricobalt Mines will AUTOMATICALLY CRIT.
The usual counters still work vs Mines of any Kind:
Tractor Beam Repulsors
Beam Target Subsystem: Weapons
Phaser Proc vs Weapons
Eject Warp Plasma
Gravity Well
Tyken's Rift
Cannon: Scatter Volley
Torpedo: Spread
Beam: Fire At Will
Deploying your own Mines.
Deploying Pets
Photonic Fleet
Photonic Shockwave
Scramble Sensors
Anti-matter Spread
<Insert other Console that causes AOE effects>
Those above are your defenses/counters vs a single Tricobalt Mine. Even Multiples. It also helps to Identify which player(s) are using the actual Mine Pattern, and which ones are not. The ones with the Pattern are the MORE DANGEROUS Foe. And if the entire team is using them, then break out your counters.
If your in a Pug, and you witness this happening, Inform the pug what they should use. Let them know what is going on. Tell them how to counter the mines and they will slowly become less of a threat.
Continue on this parade to Nerf Tricobalt Mines how ever, and your just going to cause more agrovation because again, and finally, it is not the Mine that is the probelm, but the Coding around how objects and effects like it Critical Hit. :cool:
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku