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Please help a new battlecruiser player...

generator88generator88 Member Posts: 698 Arc User
edited December 2012 in Klingon Discussion
Hello,

I've started my first KDF char (my 2nd character overall), an engineer in a battlecruiser. He's on the cusp of level 30, and I figured I'd solicit a little feedback (keep it constructive, please).

For his weapon loadout, my Ktinga is sporting all beam arrays, save for one torpedo launcher fore. I know some people advocate for DHCs and turrets, but I'm reluctant for two reasons: 1) that's the same weapon arrangement my patrol escort has, sure it's great, but I'd like to try something else out if I can, 2) I just don't feel like I have the turn rate to pull it off. So far it feels like against most ships, I make an initial pass at them, then when I try to turn and go for round 2, the other ship just steers into my turn, and we just do-si-do like that for a while. To my thinking, if they want to play that game, fine, have some yummy broadside.

So with all that in mind, my Boffs are arranged as follows:
Tac: TT1, Fire at Will 2
Eng: EngTeam1, then EPtS1, AtS1, AtB2
Sci: SciTeam1, HazEm2

When I make my next rank, I plan on getting a Vorcha, and promoting both Engineers, and plan to add EPtS2, and either DEM3 or AtS3, depending on availability of training.

Duty offs, currently I've got two Technicians, one white and one green, and one Brace-For-Impact Guy, currently white. I'll up those guys in rank as opportunity permits. Still trying to figure out the best bang for the buck in the last two spots.

So if any of you want to help me figure out a next move or two, that would be great.

Thanks!
=================

I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
Post edited by generator88 on

Comments

  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Hello,

    I've started my first KDF char (my 2nd character overall), an engineer in a battlecruiser. He's on the cusp of level 30, and I figured I'd solicit a little feedback (keep it constructive, please).

    For his weapon loadout, my Ktinga is sporting all beam arrays, save for one torpedo launcher fore. I know some people advocate for DHCs and turrets, but I'm reluctant for two reasons: 1) that's the same weapon arrangement my patrol escort has, sure it's great, but I'd like to try something else out if I can, 2) I just don't feel like I have the turn rate to pull it off. So far it feels like against most ships, I make an initial pass at them, then when I try to turn and go for round 2, the other ship just steers into my turn, and we just do-si-do like that for a while. To my thinking, if they want to play that game, fine, have some yummy broadside.

    So with all that in mind, my Boffs are arranged as follows:
    Tac: TT1, Fire at Will 2
    Eng: EngTeam1, then EPtS1, AtS1, AtB2
    Sci: SciTeam1, HazEm2

    When I make my next rank, I plan on getting a Vorcha, and promoting both Engineers, and plan to add EPtS2, and either DEM3 or AtS3, depending on availability of training.

    Duty offs, currently I've got two Technicians, one white and one green, and one Brace-For-Impact Guy, currently white. I'll up those guys in rank as opportunity permits. Still trying to figure out the best bang for the buck in the last two spots.

    So if any of you want to help me figure out a next move or two, that would be great.

    Thanks!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWSuV0B8dbw&feature=plcp

    That is A K't'inga of that rank in STF's. One build of cannons and one of Beams. Both feature torpedoes. Have a ball.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FDW4nfm0mI&feature=plcp Here's a Mirror Vor'cha.

    You will find other cruiser vids on that channel.

    Cheers happy flying.
  • coldicephoenixcoldicephoenix Member Posts: 344 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Hello,

    I've started my first KDF char (my 2nd character overall), an engineer in a battlecruiser. He's on the cusp of level 30, and I figured I'd solicit a little feedback (keep it constructive, please).

    For his weapon loadout, my Ktinga is sporting all beam arrays, save for one torpedo launcher fore. I know some people advocate for DHCs and turrets, but I'm reluctant for two reasons: 1) that's the same weapon arrangement my patrol escort has, sure it's great, but I'd like to try something else out if I can, 2) I just don't feel like I have the turn rate to pull it off. So far it feels like against most ships, I make an initial pass at them, then when I try to turn and go for round 2, the other ship just steers into my turn, and we just do-si-do like that for a while. To my thinking, if they want to play that game, fine, have some yummy broadside.

    So with all that in mind, my Boffs are arranged as follows:
    Tac: TT1, Fire at Will 2
    Eng: EngTeam1, then EPtS1, AtS1, AtB2
    Sci: SciTeam1, HazEm2

    When I make my next rank, I plan on getting a Vorcha, and promoting both Engineers, and plan to add EPtS2, and either DEM3 or AtS3, depending on availability of training.

    Duty offs, currently I've got two Technicians, one white and one green, and one Brace-For-Impact Guy, currently white. I'll up those guys in rank as opportunity permits. Still trying to figure out the best bang for the buck in the last two spots.

    So if any of you want to help me figure out a next move or two, that would be great.

    Thanks!
    In my personal exp on my Fleet Vorcha for my engineer the ship does do better with DHCs rather than a beam layout. For eg: In cure normal I can take out the BoPs in one salvo with Rapid Cannons, isometric charge and bio-neural torp (and a quantum spread at times). But I cant do the same if I switch to beams :(
    Regardless this doesn't mean beams are bad, they'll just take a lil' longer to finish the job. The best part of KDF cruisers IS the ability to mount cannons. Personally I would mount beams only if I fly the Bortasque Cruisers cos those ships seems like they were designed for Feds!!

    The fleet Vorcha has better survivability too and as an Eng you can stay alive for a long, long time!! (not counting those Borg pea shots tho.. those oneshot anything!)

    Btw don't waste your Zen on Vor'kang as it doesn't discount the Fleet Vorcha ship modules :mad:

    Good luck, hope you find something that works out best for your playstyle :)

    We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!

    -Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
  • tetonicatetonica Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I know you don't want to run DHC's, but it's really the best part of the battlecruisers. I would try this:

    Commander ENG: EPTS 1, Aux2batt 1, RSP 2, EWP 3

    LT ENG: EPTS 1, Aux2batt 1


    LT Tac: TT1, CSV1/CRF1/TS2/THY2

    LT SCI: TSS1, HE2/TB2(and just use miracle worker if your hull gets too low

    Use the aux2batt doffs and have fun :D

    If you really wanna go with a beam build, then just insert FAW or BO into the build and run all arrays.

    EDIT: If you want to get pure epic lazor fire gfx from your ship, run 2x dhc, 1x dbb, 1x torp. Super sexy if you don't care about the min/max of it.
    Lynis, Orion Engineer, main
    Rrezeth, Gorn Tactical, primary alt
    Nari, Orion Science, secondary alt
  • generator88generator88 Member Posts: 698 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Hi everyone,

    First off, thanks for all the replies.

    I decided to give the DHC/Turret build a try first, as everyone was singing its praises. Sadly, I'm making it work abut as well as I was afraid it would. I get one pass, after which the targets never appear in my front arc again, and I'm reduced to plinking away with the turrets. I tried adding in an RCS console (the +Turn one), and also found an engine with a [Turn] modifier, but I still find myself with all this unused DPS because I can't get targets into its firing arc. I'm going to keep trying, but if I don't find a way to make this work soon, I think I'm going to give beam arrays another try.

    Thanks again!
    =================

    I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
  • dirlettiadirlettia Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If you are getting one pass at enemy NPC's and never seeing them again in your front then you obviously had a big target like a de'direx rommie ship or a cruiser, most other things go pop before you get near them. With the bigger ships you need to start shooting up cloak and attacking them preferably from a tactically advantageous point.

    Saying that pop on your cloak and decloak off their rear at close quarters (2-5km is good) and fly matching their speed with all cannons/turrets blazing. You will tear through the shields very quickly and they should never get you with more than rear arcs weapons. A new captains mistake is normally flying the battlecruiser like an escort at full pelt.

    Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
  • tetonicatetonica Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Adding to that, make use of reverse and/or evasive for turning and bringing your front arc to bear.

    When I'm in my lazy mode and I'm flying a BC, I just advance on npc's and once I reach 10km, I cut speed to 1/4 and pop my tac buffs and go to town. If you keep on the nearest target in this way, you can usually clear two before they cut around you, or all 3 if you start reversing once they get to 4-5km's and just keep them in your front arc, using the frigates in the empire defense dailies as an example.

    For bigger stuff, it's usually easy to just get to 1-2km and keep them in my front arc by cycling between reverse and 1/4 impulse.

    If you want some help in-game then shoot me a message(@tetonica) and we can run some defense missions or something if we can get online at the same time.
    Lynis, Orion Engineer, main
    Rrezeth, Gorn Tactical, primary alt
    Nari, Orion Science, secondary alt
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I agree with the previous posts. If you are getting one pass at the npc's that is exactly one pass to many.

    Slow down a bit. Back up. Use engine batteries. Use evasive. Use Aux to ID. Use emergency to engines. Use chroniton spreads to keep your enemies slow.

    It's all in the first video. I have one of it being done in a bortas. Just need to know what to do. If you don't see it in the vids or you don't get it from these posters (good spot on stuff by the way) I would take up that offer of in game help. Seriously. My handle is @Thissler


    Cheers and happy flying!
  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited November 2012
    The Battlecruisers are my favorite ships to fly, but for you, I wouldn't recommend the Vor'cha, as it is very much a Tac cruiser and can be brought to it's full potential with a tactical officer commanding it. You will never be able to match the damage output that a tactical officer can dish out in the Vor'cha.

    For engineers, I recommend the Negh'var. Yes it has an extra ensign slot for engineering and that could be seen as somewhat useless, it is a sturdy ship and in the right hands, a Negh'var can be a resilient and nigh indestructible foe. And you still have a respectable turn rate, so you can use beam arrays and even Dual Beam Banks effectively.

    But it is your character, if you want a Vor'cha, by all means use it. Just know that you won't be able to do as much damage as a Tac Officer can.
  • momawmomaw Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Consider the Mirror Vor'cha instead of the normal one. You lose an ensign tactical and gain an ensign science. Low-level science slots are a virtual gold mine for a cruiser, because they're filled with great survivability-enhancing abilities.

    If you throw an RCS console onto a Vor'cha you shouldn't be overtaking the target on a regular basis. Get on their six and stay there. If you're flying past everything constantly it's because your throttle is jammed at 100%, not because you lack turning rate. You're a cruiser: you won't spontaneously explode if you slow down.

    And with dual heavies, also consider throwing on a copy of Auxiliary to Inertial Dampener. This ability recently got a nice buff, in that it lasts for 15 seconds with a 30 second cooldown. It provides a big boost to your turn rate and has 50% up time. You also fly somewhat faster and gain some kinetic resistance. (just watch out because Vor'cha on Aux2Damp drifts like it's on ice).
    cliftona91 wrote: »
    For engineers, I recommend the Negh'var. Yes it has an extra ensign slot for engineering and that could be seen as somewhat useless, it is a sturdy ship

    Negh'var gets you 10% more hull. Realistically, if you're down to 10% hull you're alive by pure LUCK not the strength of your ship. It has a third ensign engineer slot, which is useful I guess if you want to run E-team 1 and 2 copies of EPTW1 in the "Dragon build" configuration, but consider that you also give up 10% of your turn rate compared to the Vor'cha and either an ensign tactical (tac team for shield balancing? torpedo spread?) or an ensign science (Hazard emitters? Polarize hull? Tractor beam? TSS?).

    I'd say Negh'var is better if you're going to go Dragon, but for everything else, the higher agility and more flexible boff slots on the Vor'cha twins is the better pick.
  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited November 2012
    momaw wrote: »
    Consider the Mirror Vor'cha instead of the normal one. You lose an ensign tactical and gain an ensign science. Low-level science slots are a virtual gold mine for a cruiser, because they're filled with great survivability-enhancing abilities.

    If you throw an RCS console onto a Vor'cha you shouldn't be overtaking the target on a regular basis. Get on their six and stay there. If you're flying past everything constantly it's because your throttle is jammed at 100%, not because you lack turning rate. You're a cruiser: you won't spontaneously explode if you slow down.

    And with dual heavies, also consider throwing on a copy of Auxiliary to Inertial Dampener. This ability recently got a nice buff, in that it lasts for 15 seconds with a 30 second cooldown. It provides a big boost to your turn rate and has 50% up time. You also fly somewhat faster and gain some kinetic resistance. (just watch out because Vor'cha on Aux2Damp drifts like it's on ice).



    Negh'var gets you 10% more hull. Realistically, if you're down to 10% hull you're alive by pure LUCK not the strength of your ship. It has a third ensign engineer slot, which is useful I guess if you want to run E-team 1 and 2 copies of EPTW1 in the "Dragon build" configuration, but consider that you also give up 10% of your turn rate compared to the Vor'cha and either an ensign tactical (tac team for shield balancing? torpedo spread?) or an ensign science (Hazard emitters? Polarize hull? Tractor beam? TSS?).

    I'd say Negh'var is better if you're going to go Dragon, but for everything else, the higher agility and more flexible boff slots on the Vor'cha twins is the better pick.
    Well I based my recommendation for the Negh'var off of my own experiences with it. I had an engineer in the Negh'var before I got the Bortas (now in a Fleet K'tinga), so that's why I recommended it due to my success with the hull.
  • momawmomaw Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    cliftona91 wrote: »
    Well I based my recommendation for the Negh'var off of my own experiences with it. I had an engineer in the Negh'var before I got the Bortas (now in a Fleet K'tinga), so that's why I recommended it due to my success with the hull.

    And I've used it too, which is why I feel like my comments about its strengths and weaknesses is well founded. :D
  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited November 2012
    momaw wrote: »
    And I've used it too, which is why I feel like my comments about its strengths and weaknesses is well founded. :D
    And in this case, I agree.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    For pve, the turn rate diffence between between any of the Klingon Cruisers is negligible outside of the Bortas. Let the Feds keep the RCS consoles.

    Dual Heavies on anything outside of a Bortas or a Fleet Vorcha and you really don't have the tactical abilities to make them worth it. You're better off with duals. Even in one of those ships you are better off using the tactical slots to improve torpedo damage and sticking to DEM for the cannons. If you aren't going to go DEM just stick DBB's on there and call it a day.

    As far as boff slots, meh. No really, meh. So far the OP is really looking at non c store ships. So grabbing the Negvahr and a Mirror Vor'cha is a good solid option, and it gives some nice variety. Once you pick the mission you can pick the specific layout.

    On a side note, I'd like to mention that the extra sci slot on the mirror can be handy for a tractor beam to catch those plasma bolts in Hive Onslaught.

    A six beam, 2 torpedoe loadout is very good. Try not to discount the ability of KDF cruisiers to just spin around and keep those launchers firing spreads or high yields while maintaining beam fire. This is a really nice build to use when you will primarily be focusing on healing team members or otherwise supporting. It is very forgiving on newer pilots.

    And remember, RCS consoles and Dual Heavies make the Egg Bringer cry. Really.

    Cheers happy flying.
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If you still have trouble keeping targets in your forward firing arc, could I perhaps recommend a tractor beam 1 or 2. Most npcs don't have points into inertial dampeners, so you should be able to snag them and hold them still, then slap them for moving in the first place.

    A common tactic I like to use, I sneak up under cloak, while still cloaked I hit my TT, CRF, APB, and then decloak, hit my tractor and EPtW2, while at the same time opening fire on them. Will usually destroy most normal NPCs in less than 6 seconds, most elite NPCs in around 9 or 10. And if they survive that first salvo, I just either hold position or stay at 1/4 speed while they try to turn on me, still firing the whole time. I do this with both my Qin and Tor'Kaht. And it works quite well, the only things that won't die in one pass are boss class enemies and a few battleships/cruisers on elite. But on normal, you are guaranteed to destroy your target outright with the first pass, if not within the first salvo.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    The normal Vorcha is fine since you are going to use up to the next lvl.You don't need upgrade your weapons.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
    USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
    Star Trek Gamers
  • generator88generator88 Member Posts: 698 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Hi everyone,

    Again, thanks for the feedback. I've got a lot to chew on here, and I actually have been getting some improvements over the past few days. Key point I've started realizing is that hey, the throttle goes both up *and* down, what do you know. And no, it turns out my ship will not spontaneously explode at speeds less than full. :)

    Thissler, I finally got a chance to watch your vids over the weekend. Beaucoup food for thought, thanks.

    Improving slowly,
    Me
    =================

    I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Hi everyone,

    Again, thanks for the feedback. I've got a lot to chew on here, and I actually have been getting some improvements over the past few days. Key point I've started realizing is that hey, the throttle goes both up *and* down, what do you know. And no, it turns out my ship will not spontaneously explode at speeds less than full. :)

    Thissler, I finally got a chance to watch your vids over the weekend. Beaucoup food for thought, thanks.

    Improving slowly,
    Me


    Anyone else besides me remembering being in EXACTLY that same spot? I still like in PVP when I try to hit reverse and I just hit stop instead, and I'm wondering why I can't turn!

    Ohhhhh silly me.

    Cheers happy flying!
  • generator88generator88 Member Posts: 698 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Thissler, while I've got your ear, in your post above you alluded to the difference between DCs and DHCs. I'm not yet getting the difference between the two, and how it relates to use in battlecruisers. Could I trouble you for a quick breakdown?

    Thanks very much.
    =================

    I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
  • coldicephoenixcoldicephoenix Member Posts: 344 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I recently got that console you get in exchange lobi crystals (it comes with a turn rate buff etc) for my Fleet Vorcha. Doing some STFs I noticed something awesome. You can do a nice slide with this ship while still facing the enemy ship. So essentially you kinda revolve around the enemy but with your fore still pointed at the enemy ship!. Works even better with Evasive!!

    Now if you have dual heavies, you can do some serious damage and if you Rapid cannon Fire, you have a very high chance of a proc! I've been making fed escorts captains so jealous with this ship now!:D

    This is one ship that I'm really so happy Cryptic made for us KDF!!

    We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!

    -Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
  • lostusthornlostusthorn Member Posts: 844
    edited November 2012
    Yes, the Vor'Cha can do glorious power slides. With the right build and good timing you swing so fast around that it make escorts pilot blink at what just happened. But its a difficult maneuver.
  • coldicephoenixcoldicephoenix Member Posts: 344 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Yes, the Vor'Cha can do glorious power slides. With the right build and good timing you swing so fast around that it make escorts pilot blink at what just happened. But its a difficult maneuver.

    yup. have to massage my hands for a while after doing that one! lol
    Also my neck as I tend to crane my neck over before I realize I'm not *actually* sitting on the ship but on a computer! :P

    We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!

    -Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Thissler, while I've got your ear, in your post above you alluded to the difference between DCs and DHCs. I'm not yet getting the difference between the two, and how it relates to use in battlecruisers. Could I trouble you for a quick breakdown?

    Thanks very much.

    DC's and DHC's have the same DPS figures. But different rates of fire. Tac abilities that boost damage will work well with the higher per shot damage of DHC because they either simply increase the ROF or work off of base damage. So if you are spending tac slots on CRF go ahead and use DHC.

    DEM applies itself on a per shot basis. Dual Cannons fire more often than DHCs so you can see how DEM will land more damage on a target if it is applied with Dual Cannons over DHCs.

    Dual Cannons eat more energy, but it's a cruiser. And your and engineer. Adapt. Plus the new DEM boffs work very well. Give them the POWER!!!

    If you aren't using any of those abilities and you don't care much about 'maximizing' your weapons proc rate Dual Banks are a nice alternative.

    Torpedoes are a very important part of the loadout. And cruisers minimzie Tac slots. But as you can see they have other methods of increasing energy weapon output besides eating tac slots all day so you can easily maximize torpedo damage while still creating a firehose of a ship using engineering abilities.

    Cheers happy flying!
  • generator88generator88 Member Posts: 698 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Okay, it makes sense when it's all laid out like that, thanks. My original plan was to eventually get a fleet Vorcha, but maybe I'll go fleet Neghvar instead and try and figure a more engineering-based approach for my final ship.

    Um, "new DEM boffs?" I see one purple-grade doff that buffs DEM listed in the wiki, but if there are Boffs that help out on that, my search-fu needs work.

    Again, thanks very much.
    =================

    I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
  • roddy229roddy229 Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Hi everyone,

    First off, thanks for all the replies.

    I decided to give the DHC/Turret build a try first, as everyone was singing its praises. Sadly, I'm making it work abut as well as I was afraid it would. I get one pass, after which the targets never appear in my front arc again, and I'm reduced to plinking away with the turrets. I tried adding in an RCS console (the +Turn one), and also found an engine with a [Turn] modifier, but I still find myself with all this unused DPS because I can't get targets into its firing arc. I'm going to keep trying, but if I don't find a way to make this work soon, I think I'm going to give beam arrays another try.

    Thanks again!

    This is exactly why I don't use cannons. the firing radius is garbage on them. Beam arrays are better for reach, just not as much power in each shot
    Vice Admiral Thylek Shran- U.S.S. Omega (Odyssey Class Battleship) United Federation Space Command
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