After some discussion and deliberation i want to open up a debate for a change to how consoles, which are offcourse purchased, could work to improve the current state of pvp:
That the console can only be used on the native ship it came from.
Its in effect on the Vesta, and on the Intrepid. Why shouldnt this rule apply for the remainder?
This will encourage people to choose varied ships then constantly flying cookie cutter ships. It would even promote tinkering with skills and abilites from multiple ships instead of the same old ones which will hamper pvp growth. Or are people too afraid too lose their payed advantage that they outright refuse such a change, even if it would improve the state of pvp?
Please do discuss
Comments
^^ this ^^
They wouldn't sell the ships if they were not universal/semi-universal. It's why they made that change earlier in the year...
...of course, I left shortly after they made that change. I didn't like how much it looked like I was whining and crying about the P2W console changes.
I'm still not sure why I came back - lol - if anything, it's only gotten worse with that.
Still, I can't see them changing it back - and - I even jumped on the bandwagon. I bought an Oberth! /cough
Originally they were only usable by the native ship or specific ship classes (except the BoP which could carry almost all of them). They could go back to that so these things could be balanced more easily for a class of ship.
Similarly, most of the consoles were tied to specific types of console slots rather than being fully universal. This way any player could use an ability they really liked on any ship but it came at a strategic cost.
Any of these changes would greatly improve things because when theses restrictions were removed they really hurt things (for PvP, obviously it was a good move for customization though).
One thing they never did completely was work these things into existing mechanics regarding shared systems and global cool downs. I think the speed burst console did a little with evasive a but that is about the extent. Consoles can be activated as many and as quickly as the UI allows which goes in the face of all other in game balancing restrictions.
The consoles (or many of them) should in my opinion have their own global cool downs and ideally much longer individual cool downs to encourage more strategic use.
One way to compensate players for increasing these cool downs might be to include some moderate passive abilities. The Theta console might add 5 to Engine power and 15 to Particle Gens for example.
There are ways to sell products that are appealing without making them poorly balanced.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
.... then they released the lower tier ships with consoles and all hell broke loose.
Do you even Science Bro?
But it would still leave the option to bind the console to a ship class. Like AMS comes with a cruiser so it's only useable on cruisers. While I doubt they will change the consoles since it would mean many upset customers they could at least have some restrictions for new consoles they are going to create.
Also I think the biggest problem of consoles is that they break the balance of counters. Normally you would need high lvl science slots on your ship for most cc abilities. That kind of limits them and makes it able for a team to carry a sufficient amount of counters. Now with the consoles every ship can carry additional high lvl cc abilities but no ship can carrier additional counters.
So how can we balance this? What we need are probably things like more immunities after we got hit with something. Or maybe an increasing resistance during a match? Like each time you get hit by grav pulse you gain some resistance and the next hit will have limited duration, or something like that.
Or just give us more counters. Might be the best and easiest way. Like let Aux to Struct cure grav pulse. Give some additional powers the ability to clear the effects of consoles. That would not really affect pve, the consoles would still be useful in pvp but we would have an easier way defending against it.
Give us a chance at fighting the consoles. Who knows, if can build proper build to fight them the pvp community might actually accept them.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
That is just going to increase the power creep, Cc abilities are suffering enough. HE already clears everything, heals and buffs resists. Which means we need so much more cc to overcome the already universal counters from ensin BO, and one skill tree options counters all.....
Penalties in terms of CD seem the way to go. AMS shares cd, with SS, JS, and VM. Additionally make them drain energy, or include other opportunity costs. How about: anti-matter will weaken your shield giving you an 25% bleedthrough for 10s after use.
Together we this can balance individual consoles, cd's would be a start.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
thats why "class" consoles would be best. they could only fit onto ships that meet that class.
like grav pulse only be usable on science ships, or AMS being a cruiser only thing etc etc.
like it used to be...
Do you even Science Bro?
It would just mean almost everybody could counter AMS but it would still be useful to draw out heals. Also since TSS only gets a specific AMS counter and would not clear SS science in general should be ok.
Shared cd would also be a way to go. And longer immunities after the ability hits you even if its cleared. Something like after you get hit by AMS you are immune for 30sec. One console is mostly not the problem, it's more a team spamming them.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
i don't remember when exactly, but Bort commented that because they want people to be able to combine console powers, shared cd for c-store consoles are not an option. Still, giving them Cds with BO abilities seem a possibel way to introduce opportunity costs.
I really like immunities to prevent chaining.
As for counters, I'm just afraid that having HE TSS and ST clear everything punishes cruisers and sci ships. People are already bitchin about having to bring ET, sorry you escorts can't bring all that alone. Maybe if LT.Cmd and Cmd level sci/eng skills were the counters I could see some use.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
How else do you explain the influx of nonsense consoles and doffs of limited utility to PvE, yet disastrous consequence to PvP?
R.I.P
Just not worth it even if it introduces some balance to the consoles. The headaches from giving refunds would not make it worth it to Cryptic/PWE.
Well I would say since every ship can bring every console why should not every ship be able to counter it? Mind you I don't want them to be able to counter the Boff skills, only the consoles. I don't want to punish cruisers or sci ships, I just want everybody to be able to defend against a console and not against Boff skills.
But even if you make other skills into counters, like Aux to Struct. Yes it can be used by almost everyone but it needs at least a lt eng station. That means if you want it use you might loose RSP. And with 2 EPtS you are probably full in an escort and can not carry something like ET to defend against VM.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Only becuase it goes back to something that Cryptic has pulled many times in STO, invalidating a purchase's value after the fact.
Fix the issue but stop making me regret (again) the spending of my money on STO.
R.I.P
^^ THIS ^^
They should likely put a global cooldown into this game. That would make a lot of the bad things go away. But anyways.
First big boo boo was letting the captains out of thier ships with captains powers intact. That was a no no. Don't give me that 'modular ship design' bull**** I was handed last time. Make captain powers inherent in the ship class. Continue to allow players to put skill points into whatever they wish. If you skill your captain to use patterns and manuevers and then put him in a science ship, you're TRIBBLE.
This was followed with universal consoles. Some have suggested making the consoles specific to engineering, tactical, or science. Very simple and elegant solution. If they were also affected by skills to a greater extent, even better. And by that I mean reduce the baseline effect drastically, and allow skills to bring it up to where it is now. So we won't be getting a 'VunderKonsole' that allows a ship to do amazing things unless the ship has a slot for it, and the skills to use it.
On a side note, how did mine dispersal and subsytem targeting end up in tactical? It is pretty clear that isn't where they were intended to be. That change had to be in beta at some point. So now tactical has them, is loaded down with hugely uninteresting consoles, and is pretty much just a drag to fit either of those abilities in.
Anyway glad I could stop in. Many good things brought up in this thread! Nice to see.
Cheers and happy flying.
Oh wait. This wouldn't be the PVP forum if I didn't do.........
Until they increase the number of ships available to the KDF this is a no brainer in terms of the intent.
Essentially what you are proposing would relegate these unplayable:
[Console - Universal - Plasmonic Leach]
[Console - Universal - Barrier Field Generator]
[Hangar - Orion Interceptors]
[Console - Universal - Aceton Assimilator]
Last time I checked that does not leave much unless you're in a carrier.
I would much rather that remove all consoles period. Have EACH ship come with an innate built-in extra "special" BOFF power not console.
For all we know, next week the ablative can be equipped on an Engineer Recluse. I'd keep my lips sealed from here on, they just might do that lol.
I mean just look what Borticus just said last:
He'll call this a "cookie cutter" thread, or confetti thread since we throw the words Over Powered around too often.
Yeah, so that's what you're dealing with. Good luck!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Evil hands slap together in congress.
Ablative armor on a B'rel-R torpedo/mine boat.
A far more evil fantasy for me.:P
R.I.P
I don't think we use the words "over powered" very often here. Also the limitation to certain ships was only one suggestion. I don't think that will ever happen so we are proposing different things. I don't know if a dev will read that but it would be nice to hear what they think.
I don't want the consoles useless or ban them from pvp. We simply are looking for a way to balance them to increase the fun of everyone.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
As long as this was the course I would have no issue.
Though they may have to create some endgame versions of certain ships.
R.I.P