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My poor Vesta is constantly BBQ'd by plasma fire :(

latiasracerlatiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
edited November 2012 in Federation Discussion
Let's start positive, love the Vesta class. Best zen i ever spent. 10/10 for the art guys with the aventine :D

However. 80% Of my STF deaths are due to the borgs plasma fire, Hell i've had several instances where i have had FULL Shields, get hit by a plasma torp at 70% hull and 2 mins later i'm saying my goodbyes.


Here's my layout for reference, or any suggestions on improvements : Qi8VX.jpg


Is anyone else having this issue? I'm aware it's a science ship and their hulls are known for being made of paper, but having full shields and loosing half my health to plasma fire is a wee bit silly...
warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited November 2012
    Lol well you could start with taking at least 1 copy of hazard emitters to remove the fire debuff. That would probably help :rolleyes:

    Though to be honest there is so much wrong with your current setup I don't know where to begin.
  • defalusdefalus Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    You really need hazard emitters, you have sci team, eng and tac team which all share a cooldown so I'd drop sci team and replace it with transfer shield strentgh... you're running on a balanced power setting which... wait is this post for real?
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  • latiasracerlatiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Lol well you could start with taking at least 1 copy of hazard emitters to remove the fire debuff. That would probably help :rolleyes:

    Though to be honest there is so much wrong with your current setup I don't know where to begin.


    I didn't even know that did that XD But i shall look into that.


    Oh please, suggestions are welcome. But don't tell me to get rid of my torpedos, because they are beautiful!

    defalus wrote: »
    You really need hazard emitters, you have sci team, eng and tac team which all share a cooldown so I'd drop sci team and replace it with transfer shield strentgh... you're running on a balanced power setting which... wait is this post for real?

    The Cannons the Vesta comes with are AUX powered, so i balanced out my stuff, so nothings short of power. At least, that's what some other people who had them told me to do in zone chat!
    warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I didn't even know that did that XD But i shall look into that.


    Oh please, suggestions are welcome. But don't tell me to get rid of my torpedos, because they are beautiful!




    The Cannons the Vesta comes with are AUX powered, so i balanced out my stuff, so nothings short of power. At least, that's what some other people who had them told me to do in zone chat!

    For a start, route engine power to one of your other systems, probably aux.

    Then, find some stuff to boost your power. Respec may or may not be required.

    You see, you DO NOT need engines. But you DO need shields, you do need weapons, and being a sci ship with aux-powered cannons, you do need auxiliary power.

    Speaking of which, are those cannons affected by auxiliary power? That is to say, is their damage based on that or on weapon power?

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • latiasracerlatiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    dalolorn wrote: »
    For a start, route engine power to one of your other systems, probably aux.

    Then, find some stuff to boost your power. Respec may or may not be required.

    Oh right, like consoles?


    And i'm respeccing soon, to make my quantum phaser cannon actually a weapon, rather than a crappy lightshow the like the heavy graviton beam... What thing should i prioritise on?


    And the AUX cannons dmg is affected by the aux power levels, like the Quantum phaser cannon.
    warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
  • defalusdefalus Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Actually you do need engine power, speed = defense = more chance your enemy will miss you, low engine power lowers your defence so you'll be more prone to being hit by critical hits too. As for shield power if you carry two emg pwr to shields buffs you can cycle them back to back for permanent up time which offers power and resistance at the same time.

    You need to decide if you want beams or cannons, you're only packing one DHC so that cannon rapid fire is imo wasted, speaking if that DHC can you fit 2 or 3 of the aux powered DHC on one ship?

    Also posting a screenie of your skill set up or writing out your skills so we can see what you have would help people give better suggestions, no point me saying attack patterns if you're not specced for them.
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  • latiasracerlatiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    defalus wrote: »
    Actually you do need engine power, speed = defense = more chance your enemy will miss you, low engine power lowers your defence so you'll be more prone to being hit by critical hits too. As for shield power if you carry two emg pwr to shields buffs you can cycle them back to back for permanent up time which offers power and resistance at the same time.

    You need to decide if you want beams or cannons, you're only packing one DHC so that cannon rapid fire is imo wasted, speaking if that DHC can you fit 2 or 3 of the aux powered DHC on one ship?

    Also posting a screenie of your skill set up or writing out your skills so we can see what you have would help people give better suggestions, no point me saying attack patterns if you're not specced for them.


    Alright, will do when i'm done with my dailies.

    And i think you can, but i didn't get the vesta 3 pack so, i only got one of the cannons.
    warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
  • ortsimortsim Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Seems like someone might have misled you a bit. I'm not sure if you're aware that you can create custom power levels, but that would be the optimal choice, and then save them to the particular slot (such as the defeault Aux power setting having the secondary boost going to shields or weapons instead of engines). The way you would do that is to pick the power that you want to change, such as the Aux setting, and then clicking the 3 rectangle symbol and choosing the third option. You'll now have an interface where you can move the power levels up and down by 5 points at a time. You can click the lock/unlock buttons at the top of a power level to keep that particular one as you like while you alter the others. When you get it where you want it, hit the symbol that looks like a floppy disk to save it. Rinse and repeat if you want to change the others to a more optimized level.

    For gear and BOFF abilities, I'd suggest a streamlined overhaul. You have a lot of different weapon types and consoles slotted. For the Fore weapons, I'd switch that cannon to a dual beam bank and the cannon rapid fire to another beam power, or vice versa. For rear, I'd suggest either mines (and a mine dispersal ability), another beam array, or change them all to turrets, depending on how much you're turning. You can keep the Fore torpedo if you want, but personally I'd go all cannons. I do like chroniton for the slowing effect, but a higher dps type might not be a bad idea. As another suggestion, I'd slot another Emergency Power to Shields.

    On Science consoles, the % shield boosting kind are probably what you should slot the most of, but the shield regen one might not be a bad idea. The emitters and biofunction consoles aren't of much use to you, the biofunction console is essentially like a SIF console that goes in a science slot, and the plasma fire makes that fairly worthless since it wipes out crew quickly. For tactical, I'd re-slot the torpedo and beam console for more phaser consoles. Engineering is standard, but the hull is pretty weak as is, if I wanted to go all out, I'd put the universal console here.

    If you're not having the auto-fire bug, I'd also set everything but torps to auto-fire by right-clicking them in the weapon tray. I know some people dislike auto-firing, but managing 6-8 weapons isn't that great to me.

    Not wanting to push you into a cookie cutter build, but if you're running STFs I'd change at least for those runs.
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    And i think you can, but i didn't get the vesta 3 pack so, i only got one of the cannons.

    you can dismiss your aventine and re-claim it 2 times (make sure all your gear is off-board on dismiss), to get another 2 aux-guns.

    suggestion for weapons:
    swap out that front torp.
    also those tac-consoles should all be blue-mkxi-phaser-relays. last (referring to weapons) is: pack 2 phaser turrets in the rear (if you want that torp to stay, let it in. better pick a minelauncher) and run your powerlevels with full aux.

    other suggestions:
    (already was mentioned: ) hazard ermitters, transfer shield strength
    2 tac-teams (or 1, buffed by 2 purple con-doffs)
  • defalusdefalus Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Some people just don't get what engine power does for your ships defence or how emergency power cycling works.....:rolleyes:
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  • asardetemplariasardetemplari Member Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Plasma Fire eh? Let me see what I can help you with.

    The Vesta can equip cannons. Take advantage of that and swap your chronitons for quantum launchers. Dual cannons fire more often than Dual Heavy cannons, but they do less damage than their heavier counterparts. Also, put turrets on your aft slots.

    Next you will need hazard emitters. That will clear your plasma problem right up. After that, your consoles need upgrading. Neutronium to blue, shield emitters to blue, but you really only need one. Might I suggest a Field Generator console instead?

    As for your boffs, Torpedo High Yield works better than Torpedo Spread. MacDonald should have Emergency Power to Shields instead of Emergency Power to Weapons. 2 copies help.

    A blue Phaser Relay console is relatively cheap, so you might want to replace that.


    Other than that you should be okay.
    latest?cb=20160406061118&path-prefix=en

    Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
  • latiasracerlatiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    wast33 wrote: »
    you can dismiss your aventine and re-claim it 2 times (make sure all your gear is off-board on dismiss), to get another 2 aux-guns.

    suggestion for weapons:
    swap out that front torp.
    also those tac-consoles should all be blue-mkxi-phaser-relays. last (referring to weapons) is: pack 2 phaser turrets in the rear (if you want that torp to stay, let it in. better pick a minelauncher) and run your powerlevels with full aux.

    other suggestions:
    (already was mentioned: ) hazard ermitters, transfer shield strength
    2 tac-teams (or 1, buffed by 2 purple con-doffs)

    ...Did not know i could do that either O.o

    And i'll do some STF runs with your reccomended layout, and see how it preformsthanks!


    Also, here is my Specs. Don't grill me, when i started thet game i didn't even read the tooltips...

    E9Pdp.jpg

    Mmhgx.jpg
    warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
  • latiasracerlatiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Plasma Fire eh? Let me see what I can help you with.

    The Vesta can equip cannons. Take advantage of that and swap your chronitons for quantum launchers. Dual cannons fire more often than Dual Heavy cannons, but they do less damage than their heavier counterparts. Also, put turrets on your aft slots.

    Next you will need hazard emitters. That will clear your plasma problem right up. After that, your consoles need upgrading. Neutronium to blue, shield emitters to blue, but you really only need one. Might I suggest a Field Generator console instead?

    As for your boffs, Torpedo High Yield works better than Torpedo Spread. MacDonald should have Emergency Power to Shields instead of Emergency Power to Weapons. 2 copies help.

    A blue Phaser Relay console is relatively cheap, so you might want to replace that.


    Other than that you should be okay.

    Ok, i'll give that ago too. Blue consoles are normally expensive, espcially armour ones :/ And i need the little EC im bringing in for reputation projects. But i'll retrain my BOFFS, and get a field generator also
    warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    ...Did not know i could do that either O.o

    And i'll do some STF runs with your reccomended layout, and see how it preformsthanks!


    Also, here is my Specs. Don't grill me, when i started thet game i didn't even read the tooltips...

    E9Pdp.jpg

    Mmhgx.jpg

    i have no experience in speccing an eng, so advice may come from another side. but here are some respec suggestions:
    -focus on only 1 dmg-type, kinetic or energy
    -don't put points in threat control
    -guess there's no real benefit in combat from drivercoil and batteries (just use the large ones ;);i mostly only use engine-ones ^^)
    (-subsystem repair? dunno if this could made by haz-emm f.e.)

    --> free point put in hullspecs, shieldspecs and things like power insulators and grav gens

    may others got better suggestions
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    defalus wrote: »
    Actually you do need engine power, speed = defense = more chance your enemy will miss you, low engine power lowers your defence so you'll be more prone to being hit by critical hits too. As for shield power if you carry two emg pwr to shields buffs you can cycle them back to back for permanent up time which offers power and resistance at the same time.

    You need to decide if you want beams or cannons, you're only packing one DHC so that cannon rapid fire is imo wasted, speaking if that DHC can you fit 2 or 3 of the aux powered DHC on one ship?

    Also posting a screenie of your skill set up or writing out your skills so we can see what you have would help people give better suggestions, no point me saying attack patterns if you're not specced for them.
    defalus wrote: »
    Some people just don't get what engine power does for your ships defence or how emergency power cycling works.....:rolleyes:

    I'm afraid you are mistaken. Above a certain threshold, speed has no effect whatsoever on your defense rating.

    And you can't avoid such issues by using, idk, Combat Impulse Engines. :rolleyes:

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • hroothvitnirhroothvitnir Member Posts: 322
    edited November 2012
    I may have missed it but what Duty officers are you using?

    Emergency power to X cycling is a must on the vesta and you have to run voodoo setups to get the most out of it with its low amount of engi slots.

    For your setup its going to be expensive and take a long time to get tweaked and follow advice about power levels carefully. The forums usually rather spot on, general chat in game is usually listen to the advice and do the exact opposite.

    For a torp vesta for busting stf mobs you'll want to swap to quantums and keep your beams but drop the cannon. Your gonna need torpedo officers and if running quantums purples are preferred.


    Now the Emergency power to X part. EPTX works best if you can run two different types and keep them both at 98% uptime(cooldown odities keep you from getting 100% with two types). However its rather tricky to do that with only 3 engi slots. So you have two and a half options.
    Option one run the cooldown duty oficers that have a chance to proc on EPTX(damage control engineers) you need blues/purples and three of them. They have a 30 to 35% chance so Binomial distribution for two powers says you have a 89% to 93% chance off your EPTX cooldowns getting reduced. This means most of the time you can have two separate EMPTX skills going at nearly full uptime for the vesta shields and aux are the ones I like to use, as you seem to like torps weapon power isnt so important so probly stay away from that one.
    Option two Double aux to battery builds. This is full on cooldown witchdoctor voodoo, 3 purple technicians reduce all bridge officer cooldowns by 30% when aux to battery is used. aux to battery reduces EVERY THING that is currently on cooldown even the other used aux to bat. After you get the cycle rolling your ship basically stays at 125/125/80/10
    That is godly for cannon tanking builds, however torps dont care about your weapon power level and your sci skills are laughable at 10 power. Also you do sometimes just completely drain your aux and simply not have sci skills for a bit. So Super powerful but its got its dose of kyrptonite to go with it.
    Option Three just use one EPTX type. This is the half option, its saying TRIBBLE it and just going with something that you can depend on, as it doesnt have teh drawbacks teh other options have. Run two of the same type of EPTX and when one is off cooldown use it. That subsystem stays powered up 100%. for this use power to shields and only power to shields as all the others just arnt as good.

    So personally for you and your build I would say go the double power to route and dispense with the usually rather expensive voodoo. But you know about it now and can try it if you have a horde of blue and purple duty officers sitting around.

    This is what I would recommend as a base, that with two torps front one rear and beams filling most of the power in shields and aux should be fun. fill leftover sci as you please and if you have purple TT cooldown officers swap one of the TT for a HYT or something.
    captain skill loadout is a safe bet build for torps but in now way a this is best build so ignore or take parts if you want. but mostly the advice that red points are the least efficient points so if you have something you want but cant afford take from something you have thats red. Some of the skills give extraordinarily little reward for those last few points.
    http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=OmniShip_0
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    However. 80% Of my STF deaths are due to the borgs plasma fire, Hell i've had several instances where i have had FULL Shields, get hit by a plasma torp at 70% hull and 2 mins later i'm saying my goodbyes.


    1) Plasma Fire is plasma damage, and you can put out plasma fire DoTs with Hazard Emitters. You're in a science ship doing STFs, hazard emitters is beyond mandatory.

    2) Plasma Torps are kinetic damage, not plasma damage. They also have a plasma DoT that is plasma damage.

    Here's my layout for reference, or any suggestions on improvements : Qi8VX.jpg

    Your layout has quite a lot of issues.

    1) Only 1 copy of Emergency Power to shields. You should be running 2 copies, so 1 copy is active all of the time. 'Full shields' doesn't mean anything if they are not backed up by resistances.

    EPTS gives you more shield power which also translates to more resistance on top of the resistance it gives as well as higher regen. There is no reason to not be running 2 copies of this power, get rid of EPTW1.

    2) You have 0 Field Generators. You have 2 biofunction monitors that basically do nothing at all. You should swap to at the very least 1 Field Generator + sci consoles that actually improve your science skills.

    Since you have a minimum of Science skills, I'd just go with 4 Field Generators or a 2/2 split. Having " a little bit of everything" is probably not doing anything for you, and the biofunction monitors are certainly doing nothing.

    3) Your tactical consoles are all over the place. Pick one weapon type and stick to it. Spreading it all over means you're not really getting good returns on any one thing.


    4) Your weapon layout is again, all over the place.

    You have rear facing weapons that don't help your front facing weapons. You have 2 Torpedo skills for 2 torpedos and 1 cannon skill but only one cannon? :eek::eek:

    There's clearly no plan at all to your weapons layout.

    Simplify your layout, streamline your boff powers to match and make sure all or at least most of your weapons can all be fired in the same direction.


    I'm going to be rude here, but its in an effort to help you - your ship is not doing much with that layout. It's the kind of sci ship that makes people groan that there is a sci ship in an STF.


    This is a better, more effective example.


    Fore: DHC x 3 or DHC x 2 + 1 Torp
    Aft: 3x Turrets to support your DHCs and to prevent you from needing to turn around all the time to use a rear torp.

    Eng Consoles: No change, just improve quality when you can afford it
    Sci Consoles: 3x Field Generators + 1 Universal Console
    Tac Consoles: 4x Phaser Relays


    Boffs

    Sci CMD: HE 1 > TSS 2 > TBR 2 > GW 3
    Tac Ltc: TT 1 > CRF 2 > CRF 3
    Tac Lt: TT 1 > TS 2
    Eng Lt: EPTS 1 > Aux to SIF 1
    Eng Ens: EPTS 1


    Let's review what's changed:

    1) Your weapons and weapon powers are streamlined, you'll do more damage and be more effective.

    2) Your consoles all better support your more streamlined powers and weapons layout.

    3) Your self buffs now all cover you with both heals and resistance, and you have 2 copies of tac team which are going to go a lot further than 1 copy of sci team (adds no resistance) and eng team (adds no resistance).

    4) You lost a Shield Heal in Sci Team but picked up another one in Transfer Shield Strength. You lost a hull heal in Eng Team, but picked up another in Hazard Emitters. On top of this, both TSS and HE add resistance as well as a heal, and HE also carries a debuff cleanse for use against plasma. You also gain TT coverage which helps against sudden shield drops & borg boarding parties.

    5) You lose Scramble Sensors, which is a minor loss and does very little against the borg IIRC (and possibly nothing to several targets).



    Give this layout a try, and if you are not significantly more survivable then we have a PEBKAC error. ;)
  • latiasracerlatiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    1) Plasma Fire is plasma damage, and you can put out plasma fire DoTs with Hazard Emitters. You're in a science ship doing STFs, hazard emitters is beyond mandatory.

    2) Plasma Torps are kinetic damage, not plasma damage. They also have a plasma DoT that is plasma damage.




    Your layout has quite a lot of issues.

    1) Only 1 copy of Emergency Power to shields. You should be running 2 copies, so 1 copy is active all of the time. 'Full shields' doesn't mean anything if they are not backed up by resistances.

    EPTS gives you more shield power which also translates to more resistance on top of the resistance it gives as well as higher regen. There is no reason to not be running 2 copies of this power, get rid of EPTW1.

    2) You have 0 Field Generators. You have 2 biofunction monitors that basically do nothing at all. You should swap to at the very least 1 Field Generator + sci consoles that actually improve your science skills.

    Since you have a minimum of Science skills, I'd just go with 4 Field Generators or a 2/2 split. Having " a little bit of everything" is probably not doing anything for you, and the biofunction monitors are certainly doing nothing.

    3) Your tactical consoles are all over the place. Pick one weapon type and stick to it. Spreading it all over means you're not really getting good returns on any one thing.


    4) Your weapon layout is again, all over the place.

    You have rear facing weapons that don't help your front facing weapons. You have 2 Torpedo skills for 2 torpedos and 1 cannon skill but only one cannon? :eek::eek:

    There's clearly no plan at all to your weapons layout.

    Simplify your layout, streamline your boff powers to match and make sure all or at least most of your weapons can all be fired in the same direction.


    I'm going to be rude here, but its in an effort to help you - your ship is not doing much with that layout. It's the kind of sci ship that makes people groan that there is a sci ship in an STF.


    This is a better, more effective example.


    Fore: DHC x 3 or DHC x 2 + 1 Torp
    Aft: 3x Turrets to support your DHCs and to prevent you from needing to turn around all the time to use a rear torp.

    Eng Consoles: No change, just improve quality when you can afford it
    Sci Consoles: 3x Field Generators + 1 Universal Console
    Tac Consoles: 4x Phaser Relays


    Boffs

    Sci CMD: HE 1 > TSS 2 > TBR 2 > GW 3
    Tac Ltc: TT 1 > CRF 2 > CRF 3
    Tac Lt: TT 1 > TS 2
    Eng Lt: EPTS 1 > Aux to SIF 1
    Eng Ens: EPTS 1


    Let's review what's changed:

    1) Your weapons and weapon powers are streamlined, you'll do more damage and be more effective.

    2) Your consoles all better support your more streamlined powers and weapons layout.

    3) Your self buffs now all cover you with both heals and resistance, and you have 2 copies of tac team which are going to go a lot further than 1 copy of sci team (adds no resistance) and eng team (adds no resistance).

    4) You lost a Shield Heal in Sci Team but picked up another one in Transfer Shield Strength. You lost a hull heal in Eng Team, but picked up another in Hazard Emitters. On top of this, both TSS and HE add resistance as well as a heal, and HE also carries a debuff cleanse for use against plasma. You also gain TT coverage which helps against sudden shield drops & borg boarding parties.

    5) You lose Scramble Sensors, which is a minor loss and does very little against the borg IIRC (and possibly nothing to several targets).



    Give this layout a try, and if you are not significantly more survivable then we have a PEBKAC error. ;)


    I Shall give that ago, thankyou!

    However, i know it's not tailored for max DPS, but i want it that way because i don't really like cannons, they don't feel "Trek" to me, hence why i've chosen phasers. (Except the one the ship comes with, because they have 480dps and that's flipping nice)

    About my tactical consoles... I didn't think they where "All over the place"

    Chronitons don't do much raw damage, but they are so pretty, so that's why i have the XII console for them.The Directed energy manifold is a boost to all energy damage, i'm using that because the phaser relays are expensive, and it boosts my Quantum focus phaser by a little.

    And there is a very highly detailed weapon plan on my ship, prettiness :3 (Although i'm going to get quantums.)

    Thanks for the feedback, i'll definitely take your advice on BoFF powers into account!
    warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I Shall give that ago, thankyou!

    However, i know it's not tailored for max DPS, but i want it that way because i don't really like cannons, they don't feel "Trek" to me, hence why i've chosen phasers. (Except the one the ship comes with, because they have 480dps and that's flipping nice)

    About my tactical consoles... I didn't think they where "All over the place"

    Chronitons don't do much raw damage, but they are so pretty, so that's why i have the XII console for them.The Directed energy manifold is a boost to all energy damage, i'm using that because the phaser relays are expensive, and it boosts my Quantum focus phaser by a little.

    And there is a very highly detailed weapon plan on my ship, prettiness :3 (Although i'm going to get quantums.)

    Thanks for the feedback, i'll definitely take your advice on BoFF powers into account!

    I'm sure "prettiness" is a great quality of a ship setup. However, when you have trouble with a ship, I believe that surviving is more important.

    In order to survive, you can do two things. Destroy things quickly. Be tougher than enemies. Best way is to do both (Destroy hostile targets before they can destroy you).

    Therefore you need both a good defense plan and a good attack plan.

    As for specifics, I'd go with USSUltimatum's advice.

    To that I can add that with help of two purple Conn officer doffs (of the type enhancing Tac team), or one purple/one blue, you can do away with one copy of Tac team and slot another Torpedo skill.
    If not using torps, forget about this (you'll have nothing else to slot instead of Tac team). Also, exchange the advised TS 2 for an Attack pattern Beta.
    With help of three blue or better quality (some players swear 2 purples are very sufficient as well) Damage Control engineer doffs, you can get virtually full uptime on each used Emergency power while only using one copy. Then you could change one of your EPtS 1 to EPtAux 1 or EPtEng 1 to get a nice bonus in chosen subsystem.

    I guess you'd get several copies of the Aux-based DHCs (by dissmissing and reclaiming the ship while keeping the DHC), therefore you don't really need Weapons power (just for turrets), ---that's why I didn't include EPtW 1 to previous point---.
    Therefore, set max power to auxiliary (main weapons and your sci abilities), the rest, I'd go with shields, personally.
    (Still, that's one thing where perpetual adjusting is helpful, you can save 4 presets and choose the most appropriate in any given situation. Like giving more punch to turrets --wep. power-- when unable to bring Aux-DHCs to bear and not needing sci powers. Or giving full power to engines and shields when escaping doom.)

    Don't forget that your hangar pets can also play a meaningful role. Like runabouts slowing and holding enemies (if you don't need to chase enemies around, you generally don't need that much engine power, for example).

    I think that's it from me. Following that, you should get a decent and easy to use build.

    However, there are great many ways of playing sci ships while staying more or less useful on the field of battle and enjoying it. (I think more possibilities than on other types of ships.)
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    However, i know it's not tailored for max DPS, but i want it that way because i don't really like cannons, they don't feel "Trek" to me, hence why i've chosen phasers. (Except the one the ship comes with, because they have 480dps and that's flipping nice)

    I wasn't sure if you were using the Aux Cannons that come with the ship.

    Ok, let's address a few things then:

    1) If you don't like cannons, don't go with cannons. You can go with 3x Fore Dual Beam Banks or you can load your ship with Beam Arrays.

    I don't recommend this.

    The reason I don't recommend this is because you are lucky enough to be in a ship that can use the best weapons in the game, and also has a BOFF layout to make the most of them.

    One of the other things to keep in mind is that Aux DHCs that come with the Vesta run off of Aux, every other energy weapon runs off of Weapons.

    Mixing and matching those is a bad idea - you're always going to have some weapons be weaker than others.


    2) You're saying you're not built for max DPS, so are you specifically building for mediocre DPS?

    What are you specifically building for?

    You're in a ship, with 1 cannon and you have more tac boff slots than you have Sci boff slots.

    So you've already prioritized your Boffs for damage and not CC/Debuffs through science.

    This is what I meant earlier by your build being all over the place.


    Ultimately you need to pick the thing you want your ship to be good at, a hybrid layout can work very well but you need to prioritize.

    About my tactical consoles... I didn't think they where "All over the place"

    Chronitons don't do much raw damage, but they are so pretty, so that's why i have the XII console for them.

    If they are there to be pretty, you don't need a console for them.

    If they are not the main source of your damage output, you dont need a console for them.

    If you have an Escort with 3x Phaser DHCs 3x Phaser Turrets and 1 Fore Quantum Torpedo I would still be telling you to take 4x Phaser Relays.



    Here's a compromise that might give you both effectiveness and "pretty-ness".


    Tac Ltc: TT 1 > CRF 1 > Dispersal Pattern Beta 2
    Tac Lt: TT 1 > CRF 1
    Sci Cmd: HE 1 > TSS 2 > TBR 2 > GW 3
    Eng Lt: EPTS 1 > Aux to SIF 1 (or RSP 1, I forgot to add this earlier)
    Eng Ens: EPTS 1

    Fore: 3x Aux DHCs with max power to Aux (careful with TBR when doing this, you might consider swapping to Tykens Rift or Energy Sipon)

    Aft: 2x Phaser Turret, 1x Mine Launcher (Tricobalts are the max damage choice, but Quantums are still effective - if you go Tricobalt, take 2 launchers - Tricobalts make a giant pretty black hole, maybe that will appeal to you.)

    One of the benefits here is that you're maximizing your use of Aux power, your heals and resistances from HE & TSS will be stronger, your GW & TBR will be stronger too.

    Your rear weapons suffer drop off in damage due to being linked to weapons power, but you're still getting more from 2 weak turrets that coordinate with DHCs than you are with your current set up.

    You can still have quantums (or a chroniton mine actually), you just need to get closer to use them.



    The Directed energy manifold is a boost to all energy damage, i'm using that because the phaser relays are expensive, and it boosts my Quantum focus phaser by a little.

    They boost all your energy by a lower amount than Phaser Relays.

    Quantum Focus Phaser is a Phaser weapon, it is improved by Phaser Relays.

    So you don't have more than 1 energy type in your build, you only have one and yet you're still using the worst type of Energy Boosting Console.

    Start by buying MK XI Green Phaser Relays, they are about 120k ECs on the exchange right now.

    Alternatively if you prefer to use dilithium, if you purchase the unreplicatable materials I will personally craft the MK XI Rare Phaser Relays for you if you do not have a character with maxed crafting at no extra cost to you.

    (I don't recommend this due to the heavy dilithium costs, but it's an option - @USS_Ultimatum is my handle)

    And there is a very highly detailed weapon plan on my ship, prettiness :3


    toiva wrote: »
    I'm sure "prettiness" is a great quality of a ship setup. However, when you have trouble with a ship, I believe that surviving is more important.

    Agreed.

    toiva wrote: »
    To that I can add that with help of two purple Conn officer doffs (of the type enhancing Tac team), or one purple/one blue, you can do away with one copy of Tac team and slot another Torpedo skill.
    If not using torps, forget about this (you'll have nothing else to slot instead of Tac team). Also, exchange the advised TS 2 for an Attack pattern Beta.
    With help of three blue or better quality (some players swear 2 purples are very sufficient as well) Damage Control engineer doffs, you can get virtually full uptime on each used Emergency power while only using one copy. Then you could change one of your EPtS 1 to EPtAux 1 or EPtEng 1 to get a nice bonus in chosen subsystem.

    This is all good advice, I'm not sure the OP can afford some of these DOFFs but the advice is spot on.
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    In the case of using the Aux-DHCs, maybe, just maybe, one could consider using a single beam array instead of a turret. Just in order to use the "free" subsystem targetting.

    Btw. How do Trico mines behave with their CD? Is it even useful to run more than one?
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • heresincebetaheresincebeta Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    The OP is proof that Pay2Win =/= Actually Winning... that Vesta setup needs alot of work.

    I'd use a setup like this:

    Energy Setup: Change all 3 of your presets to MAX AUX. Have the weapon one be 50/25/25/100, the shield one be 25/50/25/100 and the engine one be 25/25/50/100, depending on if you want more DPS from your 360 turrets, more shield resistance, or more engine speed.

    Weapons:
    2x Quant Torps, 1xAux Phaser DHC (The special one for the Vesta)
    3x Phaser Turrets

    Bay:
    Something that deals damage. Romulan fighters, runabouts, whatever.

    Consoles:
    2x Nanod Armor Consoles (the +Kin/+Energy Resistance ones)
    1x +Shield Strength Console / 1x Rule 62 / 1x Borg Adaptive / 1x Shield Systems
    2x Quant Consoles / 2x Phaser Consoles

    BoFFs:
    TAC LTC: Tac Team 1 / Torp Spread 2 (or CSV1... I like more torpspead, but you might like more cannonspread instead) / Torp Spread 3
    TAC LT: Tac Team 1 / Cannon Scatter Volley 1
    ENG LT: EP2Shields / AUX2SIF1
    ENG ENS: EP2Shields
    SCI CDR: TSS1/TBR1/HE3/GW3

    DoFFs:
    3x Projectile Weapons Officers (this will keep you firing a torp nearly every second, making your effective DPS approach the max damage from a torp... should be around 11K before your sensor analysis kicks in)... 3x purple PWOs will make a Quantum torp fire 2.83 times every 8 seconds instead of 1.00 times every 8 seconds - these are the DoFFs that can have the biggest impact on DPS
    1x Grav Doff
    1x Shield Distribution Officer
  • takeshi6takeshi6 Member Posts: 752 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    defalus wrote: »
    Actually you do need engine power, speed = defense = more chance your enemy will miss you, low engine power lowers your defence so you'll be more prone to being hit by critical hits too.
    defalus wrote: »
    Some people just don't get what engine power does for your ships defence or how emergency power cycling works.....:rolleyes:

    Something a wise man once said:

    "Speed is not offense, speed is not defense, speed is not armor, speed will not save your TRIBBLE from a terminal case of lead poisoning. Skill is offense, skill is defense, armor is armor, and a big stick will keep your enemies at bay."

    The game's mechanics may run against this, but in general, More Speed =/= More Survivability.

    ***

    OP, as people have been saying quite a lot, grab at least one thing of Hazard Emitters to counteract the Plasma Fire. And if you're worried about getting hit with the Plasma Fire Proc during a cooldown, then get two things of Hazard Emitters and just constantly cycle between them.

    However, for BOff Abilities in general, since you seem to be an Engineering Captain I'd recommend going for Engineering and Science Skills that either heal damage or boost your survivability. For your Engy Lieutenant, I'd swap out EPtW1 with EPtS1, giving you a decent Shield Heal. I'd also slot an Engy Lieutenant Commander into that Universal Slot, and give them another EPtS1, Auxiliary to Structural 1, and a Lieutenant Commander Ability of your choice (I'd go for another hull heal, though). Your Ensign Slot should be a Science Officer, epuipped with Hazard Emitters. And your Science Commander Slot should have at least Polarize Hull (and maybe another Hazard Emitters, if you're really worried about Plasma Fire). Feel free to choose whatever other Science Officer Powers you want.

    And whatever you do, OP, definitely Respec your Skills so that they boost your BOff abilities as much as possible. :cool:
    76561198160276582.png
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    toiva wrote: »
    In the case of using the Aux-DHCs, maybe, just maybe, one could consider using a single beam array instead of a turret. Just in order to use the "free" subsystem targetting.

    Yes, that's an option as well.

    toiva wrote: »
    Btw. How do Trico mines behave with their CD? Is it even useful to run more than one?

    It's perfect actually.

    1 copy of DPB has a 30s CD.

    Each Trico Mine launcher has 1 min CD, but only 30s GCD.

    So every 30s 1 Trico Launcher is available as well as DPB.
  • latiasracerlatiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    The OP is proof that Pay2Win =/= Actually Winning... that Vesta setup needs alot of work.

    This actually made me laugh at loud! Although, i don't Pvp, i went there once... NEVER AGAIN.


    Anyway, thankyou for the feedback all, i'm going to respect tomorrow and i'll report back on the perfomance.

    Here's my new build, along with revised BOFF abilities. (Over a mil EC gone into this D: Phaser consoles & Turrets are expensive)

    OS1j8.jpg

    And espically thankyou to everyone, it's just dawned on me how little i actually know about this game O.o


    Note : Both the cannons are AUX heavys, and the particle generator gives the Phaser beam cannon and extra 800 DPS
    warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I'd re-read what people have been telling you in this thread since there's still issues there that you need to work on.

    I don't have time to elaborate now, but in the spirit of helping you out, I just wanted to point out that Mk XI blue Neutronium Alloy consoles can be obtained for free by repeating the last mission in the Undine series.

    (and if you find yourself in need of Mk XI blue RCS Accelerators, the KDF get them free in one of their story arcs).

    Best of luck with your ship!
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    This actually made me laugh at loud! Although, i don't Pvp, i went there once... NEVER AGAIN.


    Anyway, thankyou for the feedback all, i'm going to respect tomorrow and i'll report back on the perfomance.

    Here's my new build, along with revised BOFF abilities. (Over a mil EC gone into this D: Phaser consoles & Turrets are expensive)

    OS1j8.jpg

    And espically thankyou to everyone, it's just dawned on me how little i actually know about this game O.o


    Note : Both the cannons are AUX heavys, and the particle generator gives the Phaser beam cannon and extra 800 DPS

    Well, it's already way better than before. ;)

    Still, assuming you didn't get any of the doffs I mentioned (they really tend to be a little pricier), it'd be wiser to use two copies of EPtS.

    Either get rid of Scramble sensors (don't know why you'd want to keep it, honestly) and move Hazzard Emitters on the sci commander, freeing the ensign for an eng with EPtS 1.

    Or, given you're an engineer that has access to miracle worker (and your HE will be rather strong with high Aux power), get rid of Eng team and get EPtS 2 instead. (Even if you don't, I believe Aux to SIF 1 might be better for you. No shared CD with Tac team.)

    @USSUltimatum:
    Thanks for the info. I guess the time is right for me to start meddling with mines (3 Aux-DHCs with 2 Tric mines and one Beam Array are tempting with no more than mandatory 25 weapons power). :cool:
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • xantrisxantris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    defalus wrote: »
    Actually you do need engine power, speed = defense = more chance your enemy will miss you, low engine power lowers your defence so you'll be more prone to being hit by critical hits too.

    While keeping in mind that this is accurate, I'd ignore it as advise for PvE. In PvE you want your power in shields, you want to be able to mitigate damage and heal through it. Relying on damage avoidance is a surefire way to get hammered with some unlucky rolls. This is a big reason why so many people cry about one-hit kills while others don't have the problem.

    Better advise would be to just almost make sure your moving so you don't take a negative defense modifier.
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Right off the top:

    Max in a power level is 125/100. That 40 weapons power doesn't help your build a ton, especially with the turrets and hope that the beam doesn't get used a ton (mostly for target subsystems or catching a hostile on the run). Better served with (baseline) 25/50/25/100 as your "main" setup.

    Single wing of Peregrine fighters don't bring much DPS to the table. Get the Advanced Danubes, their tractor beams will enhance your DPS more than the peregrines do.

    That scramble sensors on Amy is very... meh. Nigh useless if you fire that into the group you're about to torp spread & CSV (damage breaks the confusion effect). I'd lean to replacing that with TSS III (shield heal), but a second HE or even another offensive power (CPB? Viral Matrix?) would benefit you immensely...

    Aux to SIF is maybe a slightly better hull heal for this build than Eng Team, especially since the team will conflict with the Tac Team. If you run a 2 hull heal build, you're gonna want to be able to call upon them "at will" - when you need the heal from that slot having it tied down by the shared TT cooldown is bad...

    It could be just me, but slotting both combos (CSV & Torp Spread alongside CRF & HYT) is "overkill". If I may be so bold:

    1. You are allowed to re-slot BOffs during non-red alert times. Create a Tac BOff with CSV I & Torp Spread I, and a second BOff with the CRF I and T: HY I. Swap between them during cooldowns as the situation dictates (probe duty on KA? Slot CSV/Spread, then swap to CRF/HY when Donatra comes out). Switch your Uni. Ensign to a Tac with TT I.
    2. That frees up your Lt. Cmdr universal. As an Engineer, you're gonna either want to stock up on heals to complement your innate abilities - Thinking a random ensign power of your choice - maybe an ET that you spam as soon as possible (due to it starting 15 seconds after TT ends, and it puts a 15 second clock on TT), EPtS II (Aux to SIF is on Lt. Engie) and Aceton Beam I - or going all-out Science with Polarize hull / second HE for more uptime on that power / Tyken's or Energy Syphon. In the end, pick BOffs and powers that your skillset complements, I'd rather you go very defensive and high-heal than slot a meek energy syphon that only drains 10 power...
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • latiasracerlatiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    toiva wrote: »
    Well, it's already way better than before. ;)

    Still, assuming you didn't get any of the doffs I mentioned (they really tend to be a little pricier), it'd be wiser to use two copies of EPtS.

    Either get rid of Scramble sensors (don't know why you'd want to keep it, honestly) and move Hazzard Emitters on the sci commander, freeing the ensign for an eng with EPtS 1.

    Or, given you're an engineer that has access to miracle worker (and your HE will be rather strong with high Aux power), get rid of Eng team and get EPtS 2 instead. (Even if you don't, I believe Aux to SIF 1 might be better for you. No shared CD with Tac team.)

    @USSUltimatum:
    Thanks for the info. I guess the time is right for me to start meddling with mines (3 Aux-DHCs with 2 Tric mines and one Beam Array are tempting with no more than mandatory 25 weapons power). :cool:

    At the moment I've got 3 Blue torpedo Doffs on, the exocomp and a green one that reduced bridge officer cool. Ok, I'll rejig me bridge officer powers and post back later


    And yea, I couldn't afford any new doffs, the field generator cost me nearly everything I had!
    warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
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