This is a big wall of text, but please read all of it to get the full idea.
Balance is very hard to ever get right as no one can agree on what powers need buffing/nerfing etc. No matter how much something is tweaked, there will always be debates.
The fact we also have a very large number of abilities now means that its getting very messy inside PvP maps with an array of different things hitting you at anyone time.
So my idea (which is quite drastic) would be a PvP set up that is separate to your PvE set up. This would only need to affect Space.
There is a screen like our normal ship boff station set up but its radically different. We only get to use a smaller number of boff powers. It could be as simple as everyone gets one ensign power for science, tac and eng, and one lt. power to match their ship class, but thats just a rough idea.
Everyone can still equip the same number of weapons, and get their inherent powers but the higher level ones, like miracle worker, photonic fleet are disabled.
A player can only select 5 consoles that are active. This means whether you have a 9 or 10 console ship, its fair. Players can still use their consoles they paid for as 5 consoles slots should still be ample to use several paid consoles.
Only 1 duty officer slot will affect their set up.
This set up will be switched on when ever someone enters a PvP match and their PvP set up automatically shows. when they leave it goes back to their PvE set up.
Fleet ships and lock box ships are docked their 10% extra bonuses to hull, shields etc.
The new PvP reputation system would be a big factor in providing bonuses in PvP only. This means if players want to unlock new abilities and get an edge the way to do it is to PvP. Any player can obtain the same level by playing the game. No need to spend extra money on buying power. This would be the only aspect that gives some people an edge, but that edge is obtain by hard work.
This hopefully solves a few issue;
1) The huge number of abilities is reduced, meaning pvp comes more down to skill than who can chain off the right number of abilities. This makes it more like tier 3 PvP where its a little more manageable for new players and less hectic all round. Teamwork and tactics are the order of the day.
2) It will be less confusing as there are less abilities to pick from and be hit with making counters easier to use. It should also make it more balanced as everyone gets the same boff station configs (3 ensign, 1 lt), and you will know what a ship is capable of.
3) People wont have access to the mega abilities that result in almost instant kills giving people time to enjoy the fight rather than being blown to hell inside 2 seconds.
4) Higher up powers can be tweaked for PvE as much as they like as they will never be used in PvP again.
5) Much more restrictive set up will give PvP players a new challenge to learn as they set up their ships.
6) It should make it much fairer all round. PvP Should largely be about skill, and gear. Not cash spent. Leave that for PvE only.
7) The PvP Reputation system does not affect normal PvE, and thus attracting leechers, but does give proper PvP players something to aim for, and still provides the hardcore elite PvP players with that sense of superiority.
I've never been killed in 2 sec.
Honestly I can se where your comming from but building a good ship takes skill.
Building a good skill set takes skill.
Building a good BoFF/DoFF tree takes skill.
If this ever happened the pvp community would stop playing all together.
Pvp isn't about playing it on = ground. It's about defeating your enemy with respect but still not holding back.
On top of that your plan would destroy science. Every good science ablity for the most part is lt.cmd.
Yeah I really dislike this idea
-"There is no such thing as an I win button!""Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
I've never been killed in 2 sec.
Honestly I can se where your comming from but building a good ship takes skill.
Building a good skill set takes skill.
Building a good BoFF/DoFF tree takes skill.
If this ever happened the pvp community would stop playing all together.
Pvp isn't about playing it on = ground. It's about defeating your enemy with respect but still not holding back.
On top of that your plan would destroy science. Every good science ablity for the most part is lt.cmd.
Yeah I really dislike this idea
I've seen plenty of people die in 2 seconds. yes, its usually by surprise at the start of the fight and it can be argued that surprising your enemy, and all targeting the same guy is an valid and important tactic and all part and parcel of the experience but it does not help attracting new players if they are annihilated before they have a chance to see what's going on.
PvP has a certain stigma about it all ready. It wont stop people using tactics, or making decent builds but it might not frighten people away either. Either pvp changes or it dies a slow death.
If the idea is truly unattractive then how about making PvP into a sort of Normal and Elite group. Private matches can still be set as full on PvP like we have now, but pug queues use the more restrictive set ups?
You make a valid point about science ships, perhaps they would need to be adjusted to compensate, although sci have probably long needed a boost.
Before I bother to stay and play a special adapted version of PvP meant to limit as well as balance I would rather wait and see if the Dev team is going to fix what they let go ignored so long.
I have no interest in going to a very restricted system of design that limits my BOffs, my vessel, my DOffs and almost every aspect of my gameplay after having played for so long under the current design parameters.
Before I bother to stay and play a special adapted version of PvP meant to limit as well as balance I would rather wait and see if the Dev team is going to fix what they let go ignored so long.
We've waited for 3 years and in truth little has happened? How much longer do we 'wait and see' for? The way I see it, its time for a little thinking outside the box. something different but practical.
Of course this is just a rough idea. Not every aspect of this has to be used. It can be modified in any way people wish.
my main concerns are;
1) lets make it a little more attractive to new/inexperienced players, because we need the numbers.
2) lets make it fair, where skill is based on experience and not on who spent the most money, because you cant even pretend to have balance if people are out-buying the competition.
3) lets make it a little less of a mess on the battlefield, so people can enjoy themselves.
4) no one, no matter how hard they try will ever make the higher powers balanced. there are too many, that are too different to make eveybody happy.
maybe its me. i personally prefer tier 2 or 3 PvP much more than tier 5. i think its more enjoyable, less hectic and just much more fun.
Adapting to a new situation is what PvP players are meant to be good at, right?
Or is the status quo fine for everybody, because to me it's kinda dull.
1) lets make it a little more attractive to new/inexperienced players, because we need the numbers.
a new player needs to get into PVP without having to adjust his normal PVE setting.
What you are proposing is for everybody to make an in-depth analysis and theorycrafting BEFORE they even have seen a PVP match.
What opposes your theory is that a B'rel, with only 4 BOFF's and less consoles, hull, shields in an experienced hand is capable of destroying any ship with any console in hands of a noob.
What PVP needs is a reward system, adverisement in the launcher and ingame, ranking, so that the noobs can fight among themselves and do not get insta-killed by a pro.
I merely do not like it. No insult intended, but such a restrictive system is not an attractive draw to play PvP and ultimately it will be just as bugged and unbalanced as what we have now for all its restrictiveness.
Balance the system so it doesn'ty break everytime a new patch or content is released.
Its not just the P2W that chases the new players away but that the rules of the game are in a constant state of flux and it get tiring trying to keep up with the latest broken or item we can't use becuase its broken now when it worked fine just last month.
If the Devs have to dumb down PvP at endgame to make it more attractive to those whom have excuse on why they don't play, then kill PvP in STO.
I will find my enjoyment elsewhere in a game that is less trying to please everybody and less buggy from its attempts.
a new player needs to get into PVP without having to adjust his normal PVE setting.
What you are proposing is for everybody to make an in-depth analysis and theorycrafting BEFORE they even have seen a PVP match.
I grant you that the set up required is a barrier from letting them enter straight away. It will take a few mins to set up, but I don't think its a difficult barrier to overcome. Perhaps a nice tutorial needs to be made as well.
Because its more restrictive the theory crafting would be much easier than what is is now. This is not life and death where you get one chance only to make it right. People will know what their skills are from PvE. Any new player entering for the first time will have their PvE set up and will probably make modifications after playing a few rounds of PvP. That's they way it has always worked.
Sure people will have to make an educated guess the first time but that is little different to the first time any of us entered. They will be able to modify their set up with PvP experience. I don't see that as a massive issue.
What opposes your theory is that a B'rel, with only 4 BOFF's and less consoles, hull, shields in an experienced hand is capable of destroying any ship with any console in hands of a noob.
That has nothing to do with what I am saying. A vet player should be better than a newb even with a weaker ship at times, thats just the way of things. I'm not disputing that newbs should suddenly be able to go toe to toe with vets. That's a skill difference obtained over time. What I'm saying is the current set up, people can have unfair advantages by paying money. Whether its 2 newbs playing each other or 2 vets, the guy with the Bug ship beats the guy in the B'rel. I don't really think that's fair and for PvP only I would prefer to see that addressed if possible.
What PVP needs is a reward system, adverisement in the launcher and ingame, ranking, so that the noobs can fight among themselves and do not get insta-killed by a pro.
I agree with that and leaderboards that allow new inexperienced players to fight amongst themselves is a fine idea, and perhaps solves many of the issues I have. Not all of them but it could be a start.
This would be a huge change and investment, and if they were going to devote the resources I'd like to see something like this instead which could provide an option for PvP with fewer choices to micromanage while leaving the current mechanics at cap unchanged:
Tier PvP queues. You get in a tier 3 ship, enter the queue, and are scaled appropriately. This would allow those who have toons that are actually tier 3 to play against solid PvP'ers while leveling as well as allowing vets to fly their old favorites and have a place to play without lvl 50 consoles everywhere.
This would also not create a completely separate mechanic for PvE and PvP, which the devs have stated they aren't keen on.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
1) The huge number of abilities is reduced, meaning pvp comes more down to skill than who can chain off the right number of abilities. This makes it more like tier 3 PvP where its a little more manageable for new players and less hectic all round. Teamwork and tactics are the order of the day.
2) It will be less confusing as there are less abilities to pick from and be hit with making counters easier to use. It should also make it more balanced as everyone gets the same boff station configs (3 ensign, 1 lt), and you will know what a ship is capable of.
3) People wont have access to the mega abilities that result in almost instant kills giving people time to enjoy the fight rather than being blown to hell inside 2 seconds.
4) Higher up powers can be tweaked for PvE as much as they like as they will never be used in PvP again.
5) Much more restrictive set up will give PvP players a new challenge to learn as they set up their ships.
6) It should make it much fairer all round. PvP Should largely be about skill, and gear. Not cash spent. Leave that for PvE only.
7) The PvP Reputation system does not affect normal PvE, and thus attracting leechers, but does give proper PvP players something to aim for, and still provides the hardcore elite PvP players with that sense of superiority.
Thoughts?
Responding to your points:
1) There are 6 types of pieces on a chess board, Bishop, Knight, Rook, Queen, King and Pawn. The knights, rooks, and bishops are doubled. So let's add another 3 onto the mix. So 9 total types, let's call these doubles on a skill tree to reduce cool down. If you reduce stuff, you will have a game less complicated than chess at that point.
2) Confusion is the result of lack of knowledge mostly. If you make yourself familiar with those abilities, you will not be as prone to confusion.
3) The Queen on a chess board is the "mega" ability. In essence, PvP is strategic just like chess and often deemed as "speed chess. If you have 5 players playing against another 5 who all have queens, it's like having a tournament of chess. Where one team bests the other. So in essence, the "commander" slot for all ships, is the Queen ability on your team.
4) They should be used in PvP. Imagine a Chess game with no Queens on the board. Boring dull, and not exciting.
5) Restricting players to a lesser form of game play will get a lot of flak in this community.
6) I agree, but the timing of those skills are comparable to the use of a Queen on a chess board. You tend to lose if you use your Queen recklessly without a plan.
7) Trust me, you don't want people measuring **** in an online MMO. It leads to pointless arguments about superiority. You want everyone participating, superior or not. Turkish RP Heroes by far and large is not superior in experience when it comes to PvP. However we bode very well vs those that have way more experience than us when it comes to PvP. However, do not going around boasting it. In fact, we would appreciate all PvE'ers be required to PvP in this game like PvPers are required to PvE. At least this way, the "superiority" you speak of is merely a whisper in a multitude of players and fleets.
Thanks for your post. But the fix for PvP comes at the significant dollar investment needed by the developers to fix it. This is the inherent problem with PvP and has always been this way. The neglect to invest into PvP, is due to it's small player base. Eliminating skills, etc isn't going to create more player base, but reduce it instead.
None taken. I want PvP to get better and this is but one idea, and look if everyone hates it then, heck at least the devs know what NOT to do.
But I think these things need to be discussed because PvP needs help and its not going anywhere fast at the moment.
I agree that many things need to be fixed for PvP.
Though your idea of restricted ships will go against Cryptics moneymaking purpose of selling ships to the playerbase as any who PvPs will no longer need to buy any new ships from the Cstore, Lockbox or Fleet stabases if all ships are going to be reduced to a few choices and BOff layouts.
The failing of new players in PvP (and indeed some veterans) is more about skill than anything else. My first few tries I still had my all-plasma all borg setup and the wrong BOFF setup for PvP. When I was with a half way decent team I still did pretty well. When I was with a bad team we got slaughtered. Changed my setup after some research on these forums, and my own personal survivability and damage output went up dramatically, but I still get slaughtered on a bad PuG team in my 25 dollar ship with PvP specific gear.
At the start of every match I type the same simple advice "don't rush in, work together and focus fire" and more often than not someone in the PuG charges willy-nilly into the fray at full impulse, followed by two more members of the team at perfectly timed intervals to allow the other team (if organized) to focus fire them into oblivion one by one.
I also see heal boats trying to DPS and other obvious mistakes.
When I play KDF side, I use my carrier which still has a full load of borg plasma (BoPs of course have disruptor) and always do quite well. It's the free T4 version of the ship, not the C-Store Upgrade. My personal view is that almost always in Fed -v- KDF the KDF side works well together and pays attention to what ships are on the team, whereas on the Fed side tends to be more of the "rush in at full impulse with no weapon power and die one by one" situation going on.
I agree that what we need is more compelling reasons for people to PvP, but also a certain amount of this is also up to the players. What follows is my suggestion to the VETERAN PvP crowd:
(this particularly applies to the PreMade Groups that work together well and are almost impossible for a PuG to beat)
Situation:
Match begins, your well organized premade group gets into postion and lies in wait for the enemy to make a mistake (like flying willy-nilly into your teeth) and they happily comply.
Slaughter occurs. Between Danubes and TBR Spam and your MK XII (ACC)x3 weapons each enemy ship, separated from it's teammates dies ahorrible death in seconds.
Score is now 5-0.
Enemy team repeats all the same mistakes.
Score is now 10-0
This is now the veteran PvP players opportunity to improve PvP for all ...
IMHO if you care about the state of PvP and want full que and strong support for needed changes, you need to take this opportunity to HELP the enemy players learn.
It could be as simple as typing a friendly suggestion in zone.
You could go as far as to suggest in zone that since your premade team is obviously OP compared to the PuG you are fighting that if the PuG is wiling you will be glad to spend some time coaching them before finishing the match.
You could take the time to friend the obviously less experienced player and message them something like "Good try bud, new to PvP? If you ever want any advice or help learning more about PvP feel free to message me!"
In conclusion:
The first step to improving PvP in STO is to increase the raw numbers participating. If a new player loading all borg plasma in that shiny new C-Store Ship or the Mirror Ship they are so excited about goes into Arena five or so times and get's destroyed mercilessly they won't be back. They will FALSELY assume that they lost because they aren't willing to spend a ton money to P2W.
I know it goes counter to standard thinking to teach your enemy how to win, but the question is, do you want your carefully put together team to just win 15-0 and never have a great fight, or do you want to win 15-14 in a one hour slugfest against other knowledgeable players? If it's the latter, take a littlle time and reach out to the new players who are trying to PvP and help them get better.
PvP will begin to thrive when the average new player can join the que and wind up more often than not on a team of four experienced players that will be helpful. Increase our numbers and we hold more buying power and therefore influence with the devs.
balance is MUCH better then people give them credit. theres really just a handful of overpowered or underpowered things, the core is solid. if you cant no mater what you do compete, you simply haven't learned to play quite as well as your opponents. there are several helpful resources though, help threads, an upcoming boot camp, stuff like that
Space for rent.
Have definate audience one and possibly many more!
Get your word out to the forums. Why just trust in a post, thread or your own signature. RENT IT NOW!!
LOL, I thought I had a long-term lease on that space.
and i don't like the idea of gimping my hard earned equipment. why else would i grind the MK XII if i cannot use it in PVP?
why would i buy T5 ships and T3,4 ships with their consoles?
cryptic would NEVER implement changes proposed by OP cause it would make all the zen store fluff disposable.
cryptic should start with creating a daily PVP one-hour slot where PVP dill rewards should be doubled, they should create some mechanics for PVP teams, they should offer more maps with different goals, not only 15 kills and base holdings without ANY math, perhaps enable foundry PVP maps creation, free duelling in space and on ground, duelling points..
That would be enough to get more people in. I am sure some of them, which NEVER tried PVP cause it is so ......(fill in).... would actually find it fun and enjoyable and would take a look on the forums to learn more and become better.
Nobody started as a PRO here, even i get blown up by my own bio-neural sometimes!
EDIT:
Remembering entering the arena for the first time in my Hegh'ta BOP full of MKX green energy weapons (a great eye-opener)!
PVP taught me how to really use my ship, how to specialize, play the game effectively choose the right BOFF abilities for the current situation (that is why im having like 10 BOFFS per char), be a strategist.. which also helps a lot in PVE.
If a blond chick from europe can learn it - anyone can, they just need a little incentive..
I know it goes counter to standard thinking to teach your enemy how to win, but the question is, do you want your carefully put together team to just win 15-0 and never have a great fight, or do you want to win 15-14 in a one hour slugfest against other knowledgeable players? If it's the latter, take a littlle time and reach out to the new players who are trying to PvP and help them get better.
It sounds like you're blaming experienced/good players for the reason that there are so many bad players, which I don't think is fair. If you want to improve you will. It's as simple as that. I am not an experienced player as I have only been pvping for a couple months, but I am not bad either. That's because I was not complacent in getting blown to smithereens while doing no damage to my opponents. I made a concerted effort to learn how to pvp. When I came across someone owning it up in a pvp, whether on my team or the opposing team, I would message them after the match and ask them how they survived vs. everyone targeting them, or how they had so much spike damage, etc. I have picked up so many little nuggets of information doing this it is really quite amazing, and practically every person I've asked has given me at least 1 piece of useful info. Many of them have sent friend requests to me and I now team with them on a regular basis.
The problem with most players is that they either don't care that they suck, or think that they know better. They would rather blame the game, blame P2W, blame hax, blame OP Klinguns, or blame the weather. Many players think that since they can win Infected with a minute to spare that they know the best loadout and strategies for pvp. They are closed-minded and nothing you say will convince them of the error of their ways. A lot of it boils down to having a competitive attitude. I come from an RTS background, and if you don't have a competitive attitude you are not going to be able to play the game at all. The nature of STO breeds the opposite attitude. PvE is so mind-numbingly easy, and makes up 99.9% of the gameplay, that players aren't used to having to think or adapt. They are on cruise control and nothing anyone says to them will change their attitude.
Comments
Honestly I can se where your comming from but building a good ship takes skill.
Building a good skill set takes skill.
Building a good BoFF/DoFF tree takes skill.
If this ever happened the pvp community would stop playing all together.
Pvp isn't about playing it on = ground. It's about defeating your enemy with respect but still not holding back.
On top of that your plan would destroy science. Every good science ablity for the most part is lt.cmd.
Yeah I really dislike this idea
I've seen plenty of people die in 2 seconds. yes, its usually by surprise at the start of the fight and it can be argued that surprising your enemy, and all targeting the same guy is an valid and important tactic and all part and parcel of the experience but it does not help attracting new players if they are annihilated before they have a chance to see what's going on.
PvP has a certain stigma about it all ready. It wont stop people using tactics, or making decent builds but it might not frighten people away either. Either pvp changes or it dies a slow death.
If the idea is truly unattractive then how about making PvP into a sort of Normal and Elite group. Private matches can still be set as full on PvP like we have now, but pug queues use the more restrictive set ups?
You make a valid point about science ships, perhaps they would need to be adjusted to compensate, although sci have probably long needed a boost.
Before I bother to stay and play a special adapted version of PvP meant to limit as well as balance I would rather wait and see if the Dev team is going to fix what they let go ignored so long.
I have no interest in going to a very restricted system of design that limits my BOffs, my vessel, my DOffs and almost every aspect of my gameplay after having played for so long under the current design parameters.
R.I.P
We've waited for 3 years and in truth little has happened? How much longer do we 'wait and see' for? The way I see it, its time for a little thinking outside the box. something different but practical.
Of course this is just a rough idea. Not every aspect of this has to be used. It can be modified in any way people wish.
my main concerns are;
1) lets make it a little more attractive to new/inexperienced players, because we need the numbers.
2) lets make it fair, where skill is based on experience and not on who spent the most money, because you cant even pretend to have balance if people are out-buying the competition.
3) lets make it a little less of a mess on the battlefield, so people can enjoy themselves.
4) no one, no matter how hard they try will ever make the higher powers balanced. there are too many, that are too different to make eveybody happy.
maybe its me. i personally prefer tier 2 or 3 PvP much more than tier 5. i think its more enjoyable, less hectic and just much more fun.
Adapting to a new situation is what PvP players are meant to be good at, right?
Or is the status quo fine for everybody, because to me it's kinda dull.
a new player needs to get into PVP without having to adjust his normal PVE setting.
What you are proposing is for everybody to make an in-depth analysis and theorycrafting BEFORE they even have seen a PVP match.
What opposes your theory is that a B'rel, with only 4 BOFF's and less consoles, hull, shields in an experienced hand is capable of destroying any ship with any console in hands of a noob.
What PVP needs is a reward system, adverisement in the launcher and ingame, ranking, so that the noobs can fight among themselves and do not get insta-killed by a pro.
R.I.P
I grant you that the set up required is a barrier from letting them enter straight away. It will take a few mins to set up, but I don't think its a difficult barrier to overcome. Perhaps a nice tutorial needs to be made as well.
Because its more restrictive the theory crafting would be much easier than what is is now. This is not life and death where you get one chance only to make it right. People will know what their skills are from PvE. Any new player entering for the first time will have their PvE set up and will probably make modifications after playing a few rounds of PvP. That's they way it has always worked.
Sure people will have to make an educated guess the first time but that is little different to the first time any of us entered. They will be able to modify their set up with PvP experience. I don't see that as a massive issue.
That has nothing to do with what I am saying. A vet player should be better than a newb even with a weaker ship at times, thats just the way of things. I'm not disputing that newbs should suddenly be able to go toe to toe with vets. That's a skill difference obtained over time. What I'm saying is the current set up, people can have unfair advantages by paying money. Whether its 2 newbs playing each other or 2 vets, the guy with the Bug ship beats the guy in the B'rel. I don't really think that's fair and for PvP only I would prefer to see that addressed if possible.
I agree with that and leaderboards that allow new inexperienced players to fight amongst themselves is a fine idea, and perhaps solves many of the issues I have. Not all of them but it could be a start.
Tier PvP queues. You get in a tier 3 ship, enter the queue, and are scaled appropriately. This would allow those who have toons that are actually tier 3 to play against solid PvP'ers while leveling as well as allowing vets to fly their old favorites and have a place to play without lvl 50 consoles everywhere.
This would also not create a completely separate mechanic for PvE and PvP, which the devs have stated they aren't keen on.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Responding to your points:
1) There are 6 types of pieces on a chess board, Bishop, Knight, Rook, Queen, King and Pawn. The knights, rooks, and bishops are doubled. So let's add another 3 onto the mix. So 9 total types, let's call these doubles on a skill tree to reduce cool down. If you reduce stuff, you will have a game less complicated than chess at that point.
2) Confusion is the result of lack of knowledge mostly. If you make yourself familiar with those abilities, you will not be as prone to confusion.
3) The Queen on a chess board is the "mega" ability. In essence, PvP is strategic just like chess and often deemed as "speed chess. If you have 5 players playing against another 5 who all have queens, it's like having a tournament of chess. Where one team bests the other. So in essence, the "commander" slot for all ships, is the Queen ability on your team.
4) They should be used in PvP. Imagine a Chess game with no Queens on the board. Boring dull, and not exciting.
5) Restricting players to a lesser form of game play will get a lot of flak in this community.
6) I agree, but the timing of those skills are comparable to the use of a Queen on a chess board. You tend to lose if you use your Queen recklessly without a plan.
7) Trust me, you don't want people measuring **** in an online MMO. It leads to pointless arguments about superiority. You want everyone participating, superior or not. Turkish RP Heroes by far and large is not superior in experience when it comes to PvP. However we bode very well vs those that have way more experience than us when it comes to PvP. However, do not going around boasting it. In fact, we would appreciate all PvE'ers be required to PvP in this game like PvPers are required to PvE. At least this way, the "superiority" you speak of is merely a whisper in a multitude of players and fleets.
Thanks for your post. But the fix for PvP comes at the significant dollar investment needed by the developers to fix it. This is the inherent problem with PvP and has always been this way. The neglect to invest into PvP, is due to it's small player base. Eliminating skills, etc isn't going to create more player base, but reduce it instead.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I agree that many things need to be fixed for PvP.
Though your idea of restricted ships will go against Cryptics moneymaking purpose of selling ships to the playerbase as any who PvPs will no longer need to buy any new ships from the Cstore, Lockbox or Fleet stabases if all ships are going to be reduced to a few choices and BOff layouts.
R.I.P
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
At the start of every match I type the same simple advice "don't rush in, work together and focus fire" and more often than not someone in the PuG charges willy-nilly into the fray at full impulse, followed by two more members of the team at perfectly timed intervals to allow the other team (if organized) to focus fire them into oblivion one by one.
I also see heal boats trying to DPS and other obvious mistakes.
When I play KDF side, I use my carrier which still has a full load of borg plasma (BoPs of course have disruptor) and always do quite well. It's the free T4 version of the ship, not the C-Store Upgrade. My personal view is that almost always in Fed -v- KDF the KDF side works well together and pays attention to what ships are on the team, whereas on the Fed side tends to be more of the "rush in at full impulse with no weapon power and die one by one" situation going on.
I agree that what we need is more compelling reasons for people to PvP, but also a certain amount of this is also up to the players. What follows is my suggestion to the VETERAN PvP crowd:
(this particularly applies to the PreMade Groups that work together well and are almost impossible for a PuG to beat)
Situation:
Match begins, your well organized premade group gets into postion and lies in wait for the enemy to make a mistake (like flying willy-nilly into your teeth) and they happily comply.
Slaughter occurs. Between Danubes and TBR Spam and your MK XII (ACC)x3 weapons each enemy ship, separated from it's teammates dies ahorrible death in seconds.
Score is now 5-0.
Enemy team repeats all the same mistakes.
Score is now 10-0
This is now the veteran PvP players opportunity to improve PvP for all ...
IMHO if you care about the state of PvP and want full que and strong support for needed changes, you need to take this opportunity to HELP the enemy players learn.
It could be as simple as typing a friendly suggestion in zone.
You could go as far as to suggest in zone that since your premade team is obviously OP compared to the PuG you are fighting that if the PuG is wiling you will be glad to spend some time coaching them before finishing the match.
You could take the time to friend the obviously less experienced player and message them something like "Good try bud, new to PvP? If you ever want any advice or help learning more about PvP feel free to message me!"
In conclusion:
The first step to improving PvP in STO is to increase the raw numbers participating. If a new player loading all borg plasma in that shiny new C-Store Ship or the Mirror Ship they are so excited about goes into Arena five or so times and get's destroyed mercilessly they won't be back. They will FALSELY assume that they lost because they aren't willing to spend a ton money to P2W.
I know it goes counter to standard thinking to teach your enemy how to win, but the question is, do you want your carefully put together team to just win 15-0 and never have a great fight, or do you want to win 15-14 in a one hour slugfest against other knowledgeable players? If it's the latter, take a littlle time and reach out to the new players who are trying to PvP and help them get better.
PvP will begin to thrive when the average new player can join the que and wind up more often than not on a team of four experienced players that will be helpful. Increase our numbers and we hold more buying power and therefore influence with the devs.
LOL, I thought I had a long-term lease on that space.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
me too lol
and i don't like the idea of gimping my hard earned equipment. why else would i grind the MK XII if i cannot use it in PVP?
why would i buy T5 ships and T3,4 ships with their consoles?
cryptic would NEVER implement changes proposed by OP cause it would make all the zen store fluff disposable.
cryptic should start with creating a daily PVP one-hour slot where PVP dill rewards should be doubled, they should create some mechanics for PVP teams, they should offer more maps with different goals, not only 15 kills and base holdings without ANY math, perhaps enable foundry PVP maps creation, free duelling in space and on ground, duelling points..
That would be enough to get more people in. I am sure some of them, which NEVER tried PVP cause it is so ......(fill in).... would actually find it fun and enjoyable and would take a look on the forums to learn more and become better.
Nobody started as a PRO here, even i get blown up by my own bio-neural sometimes!
EDIT:
Remembering entering the arena for the first time in my Hegh'ta BOP full of MKX green energy weapons (a great eye-opener)!
PVP taught me how to really use my ship, how to specialize, play the game effectively choose the right BOFF abilities for the current situation (that is why im having like 10 BOFFS per char), be a strategist.. which also helps a lot in PVE.
If a blond chick from europe can learn it - anyone can, they just need a little incentive..
Times is rough in the USA, man needs to make a little extra scratch anyway he can..........
R.I.P
It sounds like you're blaming experienced/good players for the reason that there are so many bad players, which I don't think is fair. If you want to improve you will. It's as simple as that. I am not an experienced player as I have only been pvping for a couple months, but I am not bad either. That's because I was not complacent in getting blown to smithereens while doing no damage to my opponents. I made a concerted effort to learn how to pvp. When I came across someone owning it up in a pvp, whether on my team or the opposing team, I would message them after the match and ask them how they survived vs. everyone targeting them, or how they had so much spike damage, etc. I have picked up so many little nuggets of information doing this it is really quite amazing, and practically every person I've asked has given me at least 1 piece of useful info. Many of them have sent friend requests to me and I now team with them on a regular basis.
The problem with most players is that they either don't care that they suck, or think that they know better. They would rather blame the game, blame P2W, blame hax, blame OP Klinguns, or blame the weather. Many players think that since they can win Infected with a minute to spare that they know the best loadout and strategies for pvp. They are closed-minded and nothing you say will convince them of the error of their ways. A lot of it boils down to having a competitive attitude. I come from an RTS background, and if you don't have a competitive attitude you are not going to be able to play the game at all. The nature of STO breeds the opposite attitude. PvE is so mind-numbingly easy, and makes up 99.9% of the gameplay, that players aren't used to having to think or adapt. They are on cruise control and nothing anyone says to them will change their attitude.
@DevolvedOne