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Priority One Shipyard Supplemental

pwebranflakespwebranflakes Member Posts: 7,741
edited November 2012 in Galactic News Network [PC]
In a supplemental episode of Priority One, Lead Designer Al "CaptainGeko" Rivera stops by to talk about the Vesta.


Link to the interview.
Post edited by pwebranflakes on
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Comments

  • robinsonfamilyrobinsonfamily Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Release it! Please, please, please release this ship I got my 5,000 ZEN and waiting impatiently!....LOL....Like James of P1 I am itching to get my hands on it! Or at least tell us when Season Seven is going live.
  • phantomeightphantomeight Member Posts: 567 Bug Hunter
    edited November 2012
    Release it! Please, please, please release this ship I got my 5,000 ZEN and waiting impatiently!....LOL....Like James of P1 I am itching to get my hands on it! Or at least tell us when Season Seven is going live.

    Probably in a week or so... it bet that it wont be long now that the borg conversion hit Tribble. They always drop the hammer of bad news just prior to launch. Sorry to be a bit negative...
    join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
  • robinsonfamilyrobinsonfamily Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Next week is not a bad thing, and I am taking what you have to say as negative! I am excited and waiting for my Vesta Class!
  • prometheous67prometheous67 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    when does vesta class come out and and can you buy it without having to give out credit details?
  • bordermonkey91bordermonkey91 Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Ok I can understand this wanting to make it a Season 7 Baby But really! When it comes to $s it has not stopped you all before. Yes Your New ship Product is nice I for one like everyone else have been waiting years for this! But you could have at least put it on Tribble and NOT just for VIPs You have annoyed so many players with this Cryptic. I even sent a Dev a PM formally and was disgusted that no one from our fleet got picked to test it on your VIP list. Keep this in Mind you hold the content but we have the cash! and right now its burning its way back in to my back pocket.
    Minnow-Raydor.png
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    when does vesta class come out and and can you buy it without having to give out credit details?

    It comes out at the launch of Season 7. You can pay using PayPal, or you can buy Perfect World Zen cards in stores to pay for it to avoid giving details (If you're worried about Perfect World/Cryptic having your info, credit card payments are done through a third-party site).
  • robinsonfamilyrobinsonfamily Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Yes we know it will be available with Season Seven but what we do not know is when will Season Seven be released! Some say this Thursday but BranFlakes says it will not be. Some are saying it will next week. Most us just want the Vesta Class and can care less about the release date of Season Seven!
  • trhrangerxmltrhrangerxml Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Only complaint, nothing that can be used on other ships, the cannons I thought would be fun.

    EDIT: Borg Kinetic Cutting, please, these need Subsystem targeting.
    Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor

    LTS, here since...when did this game launch again? :D
  • robinsonfamilyrobinsonfamily Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Really don't know what the new builds will look like til we get our hands on the new Vesta Class, right now its all speculation!
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Most us just want the Vesta Class and can care less about the release date of Season Seven!

    I wouldn't say that 5 angry people in this thread is "most of us". I don't mind about the release date, as soon as it's not a surprise, since I want to give the devs some time to reconsider what they did with our STF loot conversion crate. :)
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • zerobangzerobang Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    You know...
    i REALLY Love the Visuals
    i REALLY like what they write about the consoles
    but i REALLY REALLY HATE Sci Ships.

    with only 6 Weapon Slots,
    2 or 3 Tactical Console slots

    i just don't see this one as a decent dps dealer


    i am on the fence if i want it or not

    i bought the Atrox for 2000 Zen, was not able to test it before and just HATED it

    i will not buy this ship if i can't test it, because stats alone tell me that i will not like it.
    being able to test it on Tribble, even if it is just for 5 minutes might convince me otherwise, but i think i will keep my Zen, it is not like my 11 Chars would not be happy with their Ships already

    if you want me to drop $50 in Zen on this, then you have to do a better job than some Text-Blogs and Audio-recordings ....only TALKING about it,

    let me TEST-FLY the thing!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • robinsonfamilyrobinsonfamily Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    @ Diogene0, I just want the Vesta Class! Season Seven will be fun but all I really want is my Vesta Class Starship!
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    ok, their characterization of us pancaking about it being op is not being done correctly at all, no one is worried about the console powers. its the stats, the runabouts, and the bursting ability with cannons that no sci ship has ever had. now you can take a sci ship into a match, and have a ship that can also hit 75% as hard as an escort with no down side at all. the sci ship is supposed to set up a kill for an escort, wile dealing little real damage itself. now this just adds a huge extra chunk of burst to the equation, making it significantly more likely that the befuddled target is getting killed.

    this kdf player isn't especially torn up that there isn't an equivalent, the karfi already sort of is. wish it had a different looking skin though, something more klingon like, hate the look of that thing.

    according to geko the DHCs rely only on aux and not weapons, making 1 of the 4 subsystems worthless to the vesta, and is 1 less thing it will have to invest in, so you can min max everything else harder. aux is the most important thing on a sci ship, it can have all its sci ability at peak performance and have its DHCs deal max damage, balance would be 1 or the other not both at once.

    even the neg var with 2 turn consoles can use DHCs well, not to mention the vorcha and fleet ktinga. a 13 turn on a ship with so much hold potential is overkill, there will be 0 trouble using DHCs on this.

    thank god it was mentioned that runabouts will have less tractor up time though. them having shields and 20K hull is way to much though, thats like 10 times as much hitpoints as every other non frigate pet. they cant be killed faster then they can spawn due to that when you are trying to actually kill them.

    and sci consoles, them being of little value and used only as dump locations is an outdated 'problem', its not a problem at all anymore. flow consoles buff the weapons procs on tet and pol weapons, and the tet glider. particle gens buff the damage of iso, eject warp plasma, TBR, and a few other things. shield emitters buff shield healing, healers stack a bunch of those, and of course the field gens for shield hitpoints. if anything eng consoles are more dump consoles anymore, i always run ether all flow or all particle in my sci slots.
  • jadensecurajadensecura Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    according to geko the DHCs rely only on aux and not weapons, making 1 of the 4 subsystems worthless to the vesta, and is 1 less thing it will have to invest in, so you can min max everything else harder.

    Weapons power won't be totally worthless, it'll still boost the rear turrets. So really, this will mean that Sci Ships can treat Weapons power the way the other types treat Aux: kind of nice to have but not crucial to performance (the exceptions being heal cruisers that rely on HE, TSS, and A2S rather than ET and Extend Shields). So the Vesta with Aux cannons will have Shields and Aux as the crucial levels, while other classes have Weapons and Shields. Until now Sci Ships have needed Weapons, Shields, and Aux, so this change brings more balance to the game. That said, I like my Polarons for their power draining so I may not even use the Aux cannons, since they only come in Phaser and don't have a [Borg] proc.

    Having read all your posts about the Vesta, I think I've finally figured out what it is that you're really after. You want Sci Ships to stay as the pathetic, weak things incapable of accomplishing anything that they've been, so that your experience with Cruisers and Escorts will continue to be the be all and end all of the game. That, or you just hate those of us who are still toughing it out with Sci Ships. Like it or not, this is a badly needed buff for the ship type. The real question is whether it goes far enough.
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    and sci consoles, them being of little value and used only as dump locations is an outdated 'problem', its not a problem at all anymore. flow consoles buff the weapons procs on tet and pol weapons, and the tet glider. particle gens buff the damage of iso, eject warp plasma, TBR, and a few other things. shield emitters buff shield healing, healers stack a bunch of those, and of course the field gens for shield hitpoints. if anything eng consoles are more dump consoles anymore, i always run ether all flow or all particle in my sci slots.

    That will be an even more outdated problem with the Embassy Sci Consoles hitting the scene S7 -- Threat increase or reduction, plus to any Sci Skill, and procs like hull regen or plasma damage added any energy weapon in a single Sci Console makes having a ship with 5x Sci Consoles look pretty good. Edit: Ack, hadn't got that far in the podcast when I posted (had to pause it with all the complaining about Klingons complaining...) but the embassy consoles were what they were talking about.
    Yes we know it will be available with Season Seven but what we do not know is when will Season Seven be released! Some say this Thursday but BranFlakes says it will not be. Some are saying it will next week. Most us just want the Vesta Class and can care less about the release date of Season Seven!

    I want the Vesta too, but I'd rather they fix a large portion of the issues seen on Tribble before it goes live on Holodeck. So, I'm very much hoping it's 'when Season 7 is ready' and not an arbitrary date being upheld to get ship sells in. Still, very likely to be very soon as they don't want the hype around the Vesta to die down too much before it's release.

    Edit 2:
    A bit of summary for those that don't want to listen to it at all, or couldn't stand the constant complaining about Klingons complaining to get through it:

    -Aux DHCs can only be mounted on the Vesta
    -The 'Quantum Field Focus Controller' Phaser deflector thing is a fire over time weapon (10 sec?), it's not a quick fire and done like the Spinal Phaser or the Phaser Lotus
    -Sympathetic Fermion Transceiver is an AoE heal, they didn't mention the range on it, also an over time heal (15 sec?)
    -Multidimensional Wave-Function Analysis Module gets you out of any hold/slow, repels things nearby, and reflects incoming damage as gravity pulses at the sender. So the get out of things ability of APO/Polarize Hull, tractor replusers, and a something similar to the proc that DOffs can give to Polarize Hull in a single console. Basically a stay out respawn timer button for STFs.
    -Chroniton Integrated Quantum Slipsteam (2-piece set bonus) is something like 2 transwarp(numbers were off his head and may be inaccurate) faster than standard slipstream, and has 4x the turnrate.
    -Quantum Focused Shield Bubble (3-piece set bonus) is nearly complete protection, and make you immune to Ramming Speed. I think that means you can hit this and then use ramming speed to damage something else without exploding. You can fire off defensive powers like heals, but not quite sure if he meant that offensive powers like Gravity Wells couldn't be fired off (mentions 'weapon powers')
    -28K hull instead of the 27.8K listed on the last blog (due to a 'rounding error'?)
    -Size tweaked of the Vesta (smaller than in the books for the model)
    -Can fit 3x Aux cannons
    -Longer global cooldowns for tractor beams on Danube pets (for all, not just Vesta pets)
    -Discussion of the upcoming Romulan Reputation Science conoles to make 'Science Consoles more useful'. Basically Threat increase or reduction, plus to any Sci Skill, and procs like hull regen or plasma damage added any energy weapon in a single Sci Console.

    *All stats still subject to change, based on testing. I also may have heard something wrong.
  • darkenzedddarkenzedd Member Posts: 881
    edited November 2012
    zerobang wrote: »
    You know...
    i REALLY Love the Visuals
    i REALLY like what they write about the consoles
    but i REALLY REALLY HATE Sci Ships.

    with only 6 Weapon Slots,
    2 or 3 Tactical Console slots

    i just don't see this one as a decent dps dealer


    i am on the fence if i want it or not

    i bought the Atrox for 2000 Zen, was not able to test it before and just HATED it

    i will not buy this ship if i can't test it, because stats alone tell me that i will not like it.
    being able to test it on Tribble, even if it is just for 5 minutes might convince me otherwise, but i think i will keep my Zen, it is not like my 11 Chars would not be happy with their Ships already

    if you want me to drop $50 in Zen on this, then you have to do a better job than some Text-Blogs and Audio-recordings ....only TALKING about it,

    let me TEST-FLY the thing!

    I am in a similar position. I have the zen, but the more I hear about this ship I am not sure I want to bother if I cannot test it first, as you say, for even 5 minutes.

    On the fence, just don't know :confused:
  • robinsonfamilyrobinsonfamily Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I am a big fan of the Destiny Novels so regardless of how good or bad you all think the ship is I want it for sentimental values and yes I will play it in game, not on every character but on at least one or two of my characters!
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Looks like Season 7 is coming very, very soon. My client has already started pre-patching, which means that it's a week or less away. Since last night's patch to Tribble still had some known issues that are important (like not being able to customize ships), I'm betting the 15th.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Weapons power won't be totally worthless, it'll still boost the rear turrets. So really, this will mean that Sci Ships can treat Weapons power the way the other types treat Aux: kind of nice to have but not crucial to performance (the exceptions being heal cruisers that rely on HE, TSS, and A2S rather than ET and Extend Shields). So the Vesta with Aux cannons will have Shields and Aux as the crucial levels, while other classes have Weapons and Shields. Until now Sci Ships have needed Weapons, Shields, and Aux, so this change brings more balance to the game. That said, I like my Polarons for their power draining so I may not even use the Aux cannons, since they only come in Phaser and don't have a [Borg] proc.

    Having read all your posts about the Vesta, I think I've finally figured out what it is that you're really after. You want Sci Ships to stay as the pathetic, weak things incapable of accomplishing anything that they've been, so that your experience with Cruisers and Escorts will continue to be the be all and end all of the game. That, or you just hate those of us who are still toughing it out with Sci Ships. Like it or not, this is a badly needed buff for the ship type. The real question is whether it goes far enough.


    the weapons power will be worthless, if you have a bunch of weapons energy JUST for turrets, oh boy are you doing it wrong. with the DHCs you would have an aft beam array for the subsystem targeting, and 2 mines, chrono or tricobalt. needing only 3 of 4 subsystems does not bring balance to the game.


    sci ships, pathetic and week? pve'ers, so clueless. STO is a pvp game. as in, it is built apon a combat system designed for player ships to combat each other and fill certain roles. the pve in this game, and like all other games basically, is not built to require anything other then DPS, a cool factor, and a variable amount of time needed to kill something.

    a sci ship is least able to do this well, because its the weakest at dealing damage. but the sci ship is also the most important thing to have around in pvp, its ability to befuddle another player is what makes getting a kill possible, on any good team the healing is so strong that damage cant over come it alone.

    the vesta as is will be an absolute pleasure to pve in im sure. but it is a mold breaking ship in pvp. a sci ship is supposed to set up the kill, not set up the kill, and kill all by itself, which the vesta will absolutely be able to do.

    on a good pvp team, if the sci ships can deal spike damage too, thats an unprecedented boost in a teams ability to get kills. the vesta will be 5 times more valuable to have around thanks to that extra burst damage it will be able to deal when it is needed. having a sci ship is supposed to mean the team has 1 less spike damager, now thats not the case. it turns everything on its head.


    but no, it must just be that i like it that sci ships to suck in pve, i must get something out of hearing all the complaining from people that have next to no actual incite on how things work in game. that must all be very amusing to me :rolleyes:
  • jadensecurajadensecura Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    needing only 3 of 4 subsystems does not bring balance to the game.

    Nice job totally ignoring my whole argument there.
    sci ships, pathetic and week? pve'ers, so clueless. STO is a pvp game. as in, it is built apon a combat system designed for player ships to combat each other and fill certain roles. the pve in this game, and like all other games basically, is not built to require anything other then DPS, a cool factor, and a variable amount of time needed to kill something.

    In other words, "I'm a PvPer, therefore everything else is irrelevant." In case you haven't noticed, that is not even remotely the way the game progression is set up. This is pure wishful thinking on your part, and quite frankly I'm glad of it. PvP in any game just isn't forgiving enough for new players, besides it's really never been something I've been interested in, there's enough rage without actually killing other players yourself.
    a sci ship is least able to do this well, because its the weakest at dealing damage. but the sci ship is also the most important thing to have around in pvp, its ability to befuddle another player is what makes getting a kill possible, on any good team the healing is so strong that damage cant over come it alone.

    the vesta as is will be an absolute pleasure to pve in im sure. but it is a mold breaking ship in pvp. a sci ship is supposed to set up the kill, not set up the kill, and kill all by itself, which the vesta will absolutely be able to do.

    You're literally saying here that you admit that the status quo doesn't work properly for the majority of the content in the game, but because it would require your niche to adapt its expectations a little you think a fix shouldn't be put in the game. Wow, just wow.

    The Vesta won't even have that much more spike damage than a regular sci ship without sacrificing half of its sci capability. Tac slots are very important for damage, especially spike damage, and the only way the Vesta gets an unusual number of those is by using the LtC slot and having just 5 sci abilities. Given how heal heavy most PvP sci builds seem to be, that's almost all of your offensive abilities. Or you just get all your spike from mines with the DHCs for long term DPS, and come out with a basically standard sci build with a bit more damage that relies on only as many power levels as the other two types.
  • ravinravin Member Posts: 509 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    STO is a pvp game.

    I had to read that three times, and do two double takes. I think you're the only person that has ever said that about STO in the history of the game.
    =\/= ================================ =\/=
    Centurion maximus92
    12th Legion, Romulan Republic
    12th Fleet

    =\/= ================================ =\/=
  • macarthur1961macarthur1961 Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Hope this is in the right place... all this Internet stuff is still quite new to me.
    Another New Ship is always a great idea... but I was wondering... there is already a problem with some folks whom have invested alot into their ships being unjustifiably indignant and/ or insulting to weaker/newer players... so... my question is this... do STO developers have any plans to add another level into the STF equation..?
    To explain further... there are now enough ships with differant levels of capabilities that it can be frustrating for some to lose the optional because a couple of weaker ships are in the ESTFs, so... why not bring in an,'Advanced' level and catagorize ships..? this would accomodate that problem as well as providing a new area of advancement.
    In saying this... could not the same sort of system be incorporated into the PvP aspects of STO..? This would eliminate the problem of players with advanced and well equipped ships from camping in the Arenas, Kerrat, etc and picking on weaker ships (yes, I know this is extremely dishonorable behavior but it happens alot)
    If this idea were pursued, it would only really work if STO incorporates some sort of block so that those with,'Elite' or,'Advanced' ships and weapons could not use these in a lower level scenario.
  • jadensecurajadensecura Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    my question is this... do STO developers have any plans to add another level into the STF equation..?

    Probably should have had its own thread, but whatever. This kind of thing has been suggested a number of times before, a greater number of difficulties, gear requirements, the whole thing. Not allowing better gear into easier instances is I think new, but mainly because this has only really been discussed for PvE before, where I would argue against such maximums (it's nice to be able to help a fleetmate bang out their first few STFs), and not for PvP where they do make a lot of sense. And of course there have been the suggestions to make Mk XII STF gear purchasable with EDC, and thus make ESTFs optional. Unfortunately, Cryptic has opted to create a new Reputation system (which everyone hates) instead of going for any of these options. Sadly, this seems to be pretty standard practice for them.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Nice job totally ignoring my whole argument there.

    a whole paragraph went toward showing why your argument failed. 2 mines and an aft beam for the subsytem targeting don't require 1 of the 4 subsytems.

    In other words, "I'm a PvPer, therefore everything else is irrelevant." In case you haven't noticed, that is not even remotely the way the game progression is set up. This is pure wishful thinking on your part, and quite frankly I'm glad of it. PvP in any game just isn't forgiving enough for new players, besides it's really never been something I've been interested in, there's enough rage without actually killing other players yourself.

    You're literally saying here that you admit that the status quo doesn't work properly for the majority of the content in the game, but because it would require your niche to adapt its expectations a little you think a fix shouldn't be put in the game. Wow, just wow.
    ravin wrote: »
    I had to read that three times, and do two double takes. I think you're the only person that has ever said that about STO in the history of the game.

    this is what pve'er denial looks like, lashing out at someone telling them the truth. this is a pvp game, because the sci ship in the form its in exists at all. and because the 3 ship types balance each other so well when they face off with each other. it would not be this way if the game was set up purely for pve in mind from the start. this is not my fault, i didn't make the game this way, i didn't cause pve to only really need dps, i don't want 1 of the 3 types of ships to be far less useful at pve, and i didn't cause pve to be played so much more then pvp in a game designed from the ground up to be balanced for pvp. this is just the way it is, don't blame me.

    The Vesta won't even have that much more spike damage than a regular sci ship without sacrificing half of its sci capability. Tac slots are very important for damage, especially spike damage, and the only way the Vesta gets an unusual number of those is by using the LtC slot and having just 5 sci abilities. Given how heal heavy most PvP sci builds seem to be, that's almost all of your offensive abilities. Or you just get all your spike from mines with the DHCs for long term DPS, and come out with a basically standard sci build with a bit more damage that relies on only as many power levels as the other two types.

    wrong. spike damage is not high up time damage, just CRF1 is enough to make 3 DHC deadly when they need to be. this isnt escort replacing damage, but when a sci ship is around and sets up a target for an escort to take out, this sci ship will have 3 extra DHCs to bring to the table to help bring down the sci debuffed target. proboly at least bringing an extra 33% more damage into the equation, thats an insane thing to introduce in a game with margins this tight.

    it does away with the sci ships disadvantage, that its not a damage dealer at all, but a control and debuff wizard. thats what a sci ship does, and that makes it pointless in most pve. sorry, thats just a fact. this sci ship will be a pleasure to use in pve though im sure. but its just another case of a ship getting released into a pvp system with 0 disadvantages and 3 huge mold breaking advantages. pvp balance depends on ships having disadvantages to go along with advantages, this stupid vesta invalidates all other options, and can perform its role without compromise, wile performing the role of an escort to at least 3/4 of its level.
  • ravinravin Member Posts: 509 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    This is what PvE'er denial looks like, lashing out at someone telling them the truth. This is a PvP game, because the sci ship in the form its in exists at all, and because the 3 ship types balance each other so well when they face off with each other. It would not be this way if the game was set up purely for PvE in mind from the start. This is not my fault.

    I didn't make the game this way. I didn't cause PvE to only really need DPS. I don't want 1 of the 3 types of ships to be far less useful at PvE. I didn't cause PvE to be played so much more then PvP in a game designed from the ground up to be balanced for PvP. This is just the way it is, don't blame me.


    Had to fix that quote a bit to make it a tad bit more readable.

    Not in denial at all, and I'm a PvP'er in most MMO's I play. I wasn't lashing out either, just making an observation. Your exact quote was "STO is a PvP game." 95% of the PvP'ers will tell you that STO has no meaningful PvP at all, therefore it is not a PvP game. Your argument would have validity if the PvP was at the forefront of the game's development, unfortunately it was not. The balance exists because of STO's PvE endgame, which also works well for what PvP there is.
    =\/= ================================ =\/=
    Centurion maximus92
    12th Legion, Romulan Republic
    12th Fleet

    =\/= ================================ =\/=
  • jadensecurajadensecura Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    this is a pvp game, because the sci ship in the form its in exists at all. and because the 3 ship types balance each other so well when they face off with each other. it would not be this way if the game was set up purely for pve in mind from the start.

    The sci ship exists in its current form primarily because they over-nerfed it back in Season 1 or 2 or whenever it was and have never fixed it. This is not a PvP game, the entire game progression is built around PvE, all of the good equipment comes from PvE, PvP isn't even good for getting dilithium, and that's all you can do with it. If sci ships are well balanced in PvP but not in PvE then that is a mistake in the game design, because everything else in the game is built around PvE.
    this is just the way it is, don't blame me.

    You are the one fighting a proposed fix though. It's true that this isn't the way I would have liked it to be fixed, I would have preferred a rebalance of abilities to make them more useful. I also think they went overboard with the universal boff stations, it should only have had the ensign to ensure it kept its sci role, but this is what they're giving us, and we definitely need something.
    a whole paragraph went toward showing why your argument failed. 2 mines and an aft beam for the subsytem targeting don't require 1 of the 4 subsytems.
    wrong. spike damage is not high up time damage, just CRF1 is enough to make 3 DHC deadly when they need to be. this isnt escort replacing damage, but when a sci ship is around and sets up a target for an escort to take out, this sci ship will have 3 extra DHCs to bring to the table to help bring down the sci debuffed target. proboly at least bringing an extra 33% more damage into the equation, thats an insane thing to introduce in a game with margins this tight.

    Mines are primarily potent because of their abilities. Cannon abilities are also a huge portion of their power. Both start at Lt. level, and the Vesta only gets one tac Lt. slot without moving the LtC and becoming a wimpy escort. So you can either have your cannons be potent or have your mines be potent, but not both (and either way you don't get APB or APO). Since players usually rely on their shields, and you hold that shield drains are worthless in PvP, the smart way to go seems to be to get the cannon skill and give up on high powered mines, in which case you may as well get the turrets for a bit of extra damage and more procs. Now, I wouldn't run a high level of weapons power just for those turrets, but maybe 30, and maybe a setting to switch to that pulls out shield and engine power to boost it. Sort of like how most people in escorts and cruisers run a low level of Aux power (none as much as possible with AtB builds) with maybe a setting or a battery to boost heals.

    For PvE purposes the Vesta is a completely non-overpowered attempt to make sci ships relevant. A good Vesta is probably going to be around the damage range of a good cruiser, but it's not going to match an escort. It will however have significant CC capability to keep it equally relevant, while good cruisers can tank even the most powerful targets in addition to dealing good DPS and escorts outshine both of the others in DPS without any special secondary ability. That's a well balanced game for the current state of PvE. STO's PvP has always been struggling to hitch a ride along with the primary PvE game, and it's still going to be. I don't know what the solution is for that, and I do think it would be sad if, as some have suggested, PvP disappeared entirely. I do occasionally enjoy a 1 on 1 with a friend, it can be an amusing diversion. But pushing to keep PvE unbalanced is not realistic and doesn't help your cause.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    i have to thank you guys, really. you have opened my eyes. you have proven to me its completely pointless to try to argue such things with people that have no experience in high level play. heres something i posted earlier, a vesta at its worst in pvp. im done trying to debate this with you point by point, if anyone is going to argue that sci ships are useless in the state they are in or that this isn't a pvp system at its core that your all just pveing in i might as well argue with someone who thinks the earth is flat.



    when people think of damage dealing, they only seem to think about a lone bug stomping a mud hole in everything in front of it. by looking at the vesta stats, and seeing that it only can only mount 3 cannons and have limited tac stations in most situations, they know it cant do what a bug or any other super escort can, so its damage dealing will be negligible. ROFL. really, i cant think of any other explanation to people not getting this.

    this type of damage dealing, its nothing. its pissing in the wind of cross heals, it accomplishes nothing on its own, you cant simply shoot someone to death when there are good healers around, and potential targets that know how to take a hit.

    enter debuffing, the way kills are gotten. when someone has no functioning subsystems because of VM, no resistance running and nothing available to use because of a well timed SNB, a huge hull resistance debuff from sensor scan, is held in its own or its runabouts tractor beam so they have 0 defence score, are stuck in warp plasma and receiving a dot wile having a double hold on them that they cant dig out of, and having the damage potential of CRF1 with 3 DHCs, well let me tell you that damage will go a long way then.

    see, a normal sci ship already can do all that, there are 3 that come with a LTC eng, they can set up kills easily with some or all of that afflicting a target at once, so they are easy picking for an escort. but the vesta, well it can deal so much damage on its own, and the best type of damage, true DHC spike damage, that it could potentially get these kills on its own. and if not, an escort is going to notice someone in that bad a way and shoot at the target too. 100 times i have been in this debuffed state, and all the times i survived it was by the skin of my teeth. stack another 1/4- 3/4 burst spike damage in there, and non of those times i lived would i make it out alive.


    if you look at the vesta stats, and cant clearly see this play out every single time, you are inexperienced. thats all right, we all were. thats not going to change the fact that the vesta truly is uber overpowered.


    sci captain uber build

    3 non aux DHC, 2 crono mines, or tric mines, 1 beam array for subsytem targeting.

    TT1, CRF1
    EPtS1, AtB1, EWP1
    EPtA1, AtB1

    TSS1, HE2, ST3, VM3
    TB1

    runabouts
    3 tech doffs, 2 vm doffs

    every one of these abilities can be used at their global cooldown. never ending VM, never ending tractor hold from pets and yourself, never ending plasma hold, global TT and CRF. the only question is how long it will take for you to die, wile you are rendered completely helpless. don't for get SA, the longer you take a pounding, the more damage it will deal.

    this is just the most uber thing i can think of, there are proboly at least 5-10 other builds that could completely dominate as well.
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    i have to thank you guys, really. you have opened my eyes. you have proven to me its completely pointless to try to argue such things with people that have no experience in high level play. heres something i posted earlier, a vesta at its worst in pvp. im done trying to debate this with you point by point, if anyone is going to argue that sci ships are useless in the state they are in or that this isn't a pvp system at its core that your all just pveing in i might as well argue with someone who thinks the earth is flat.

    .

    *pats tommy on the back* yup your patience is giving you great credit. I felt like storming out way earlier.

    Needless to say I agree with you thoughts on the vesta
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I don't mean to be too blunt or cruel, but I honestly don't think this game's ship designers know or play enough PvP to tell us what we should think or feel about any of their ship concepts.

    Whether they think the Vesta is too strong or too weak is immaterial, the real problem (and what ultimately rubs) is that they just don't have the experience to hold such an opinion one way or the other.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I don't mean to be too blunt or cruel, but I honestly don't think this game's ship designers know or play enough PvP to tell us what we should think or feel about any of their ship concepts.

    Whether they think the Vesta is too strong or too weak is immaterial, the real problem (and what ultimately rubs) is that they just don't have the experience to hold such an opinion one way or the other.

    describes everyone in this thread defending the vesta.

    i saw branflakes pvp a few times in a bug the other day pvping, that was encouraging. he kinda stunk, and didn't respond to my first hi there pm, so i didn't want to pester him if he just wants to play without getting celebrity attention. out of all the 'devs' he is proboly the best pvper among them unfortunately.
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