Some of the older players here before f2p already knew what a TRIBBLE conversion it would be. Is why I don't take any statements seriously action speaks louder than words.
Is this a joke or just the beginning of some severe tweaking?
What we're seeing is that several pieces of rare/prototype Borg tech are worth less than the cost of a single piece of MK X STF gear in S7?
I'm definitely not enjoying this so far.
Cash in your STF drops and purchase all the gear (weapons, sets) you're going to need later. Personally, I'm going to be dilithium grinding for a while under this new system, so why not grind some omega marks too. We'll have to grind anyway just to reach Tier 3 and access the crate. In the end, it's still all about the grind... except that now there isn't any randomness to it.
I feel sorry for those who weren't lucky enough to receive tech drops before. Now they have to pay for what used to be free.
All of the following projects currently have a 40-hour duration. This is a variable that is under scrutiny however, and may change (they were briefly 2-hour duration on Tribble).
Mk X Ground Set (per piece)
Omega Marks: 250
Dilithium: 3500
Expertise: 1000
Commodity Price: ~6000 EC
Mk XI Ground Set (per piece)
Omega Marks: 375
Dilithium: 5500
Expertise: 32,000
Commodity Price: ~20,000 EC
Mk XII Ground Set (per piece)
Omega Marks: 500
Borg Neural Processors: 10
Dilithium: 9000
Expertise: 64,000
Commodity Price: ~40,000 EC
Mk X Space Set (per piece)
Omega Marks: 500
Dilithium: 15,500
Expertise: 16,000
Commodity Price: ~10,000 EC
Mk XI Space Set (per piece)
Omega Marks: 750
Dilithium: 20,000
Expertise: 48,000
Commodity Price: ~30,000 EC
Mk XII Space Set (per piece)
Omega Marks: 1000
Borg Neural Processors: 10
Dilithium: 34,000
Expertise: 64,000
Commodity Price: ~40,000 EC
** all of the above is subject to change!
Please consider removing the time-gating entirely. Time gating progression is a terrible idea, especially if there is no way to bypass the time gate (ie, by having random drops in addition to the reputation system).
After seeing all the conversions it doesn't seem good at all.
500+ edc
100 proto salvage
40 rare salvage
15 space proto techs
=
4500 omega marks
15 BNP
24k dilithium ore
Why is this conversion even teired? Cause no one will get what they actually deserve.
Like comparing mine to lowestlvl's conversion above me, even though I have substantially more possible high end gear purchasing power, it gets distilled down into about half a piece of a MKXII set advantage over him.
Should be per item.
Eg 1x space proto tech = 10BNP, 1000 marks and 34k _refined_ dilithium
That would allow me to get exactly the same thing in S7 as I can right now in S6.
I can buy 15 MKXII space gear set pieces right now, after conversion I get 3 pieces worth of BNPs and not enough dilithium to even buy 1.
I'm failing to see how this conversion rate is advantageous to the players.
Please consider removing the time-gating entirely. Time gating progression is a terrible idea, especially if there is no way to bypass the time gate (ie, by having random drops in addition to the reputation system).
This. I can understand time gating the progression in reputation rank and progression projects. But to time gate the store is unwarranted.
"Hey look! New Cstore ship!" /jumps in captains seat.
"Oh wait I have to wait 120 hours before I can take it into battle..."
Since we've recently increased the cost in Neural Processors necessary to purchase items, we've just increased the number of Neural Processors that will be allotted to players in the conversion. You'll be getting approximately (but not exactly) twice as many as you're seeing on Tribble right now. Numbers are still in flux.
And what is the drop rate of BNP's going to be in an Elite Run? One per Elite mission?
So if that's the case, you gotta give more than twice the amount in the conversion, because everyone in game and here on the forum are literally cashing their chips. They see this conversion as a a very very bad deal.
The conversion rate as it currently stands is preposterous. Months of effort spent amassing tremendous purchasing power in the existing STF store will be decimated, replaced by scarcely enough to buy a couple pieces of Mark XII gear.
I would urge the developers to reconsider this conversion rate. It's not fair. It doesn't retain even a semblance of purchasing power parity. It doesn't reward players for their efforts. To the contrary, the nominal compensation given by the conversion is so meager as to be insulting.
I understand the desire to give players a reason to play through the new reputation system in its entirety. That means a grind of the STFs and other content. But for those of us who *have* been grinding faithfully, this conversion rate seems like something of a betrayal.
Please reconsider the conversion rate. I, and others, would vastly prefer something less draconian. Veteran players will thank you, and continue to be veteran players. A more beneficial conversion rate will cost Cryptic nothing.
I'd rather that they give us instant reputation ranks based on how much STF drops we have. It makes no sense that we should have to complete the projects just to reach tier 3 so that we may open a crate that contains well less than what our items were worth. We ran all those missions in the face of insta-kills, isometric charges, and a number of bugs and glitches to amass a collection of these randomly dropped items (some being exceedingly difficult to acquire, hence the need to remove the randomness... or so they say) only to be stiffed in the end and told that our work was, well, futile.
The whole crate idea might as well be tossed out and replaced with an automatic dilithium deposit. Unless seeking omega marks, who in their right mind is going to hand over items worth 100k+ dilithium in exchange for <100k dilithium? Here, I'll give you a dime and some lint if you give me a dollar. Granted 2000 omega marks takes about 83 runs with the reward being 24 marks, so converting does save a ton of time and effort. But how long would it take to make back that lost dilithium based on the S7 dilithium reward? If the dilithium reward is the same as S6, then 612k dilithium converted down to 56k dilithium would take... 506 Elite runs, not including random drops worth dilithium (which there will be none) and weekly mission bonus.
All of the following projects currently have a 40-hour duration. This is a variable that is under scrutiny however, and may change (they were briefly 2-hour duration on Tribble).
** all of the above is subject to change!
Wha the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu?
40 hours to "buy" something? If I lived in California I'd hop in my car and find the genius who thought that was a good idea and squirt them with water like I do my cats when they're bad! Bad devs! Bad, bad design! The customers are not your enemy!
Adding a bajillion artificial time gates only pisses people off and makes them leave.
Looks like the devs just got there supply of *what ever the hell* in. I would like to know how grinding for endgame gear in this manner is such a good idea. On top of that the conversion rates for the STF loot is a load of TRIBBLE.
Unless we are getting something special like them Warfare Bridge Officers requistions for being screwed I might as well convert every thing I have from the STF loot into dilithium.
With all the time gating and grinding you have to do in this game at the rate its going the freaking ripoff lockbox key sales isn't going to keep this game afloat for very much longer.
Oh Hi Cryptic. I see you have that cactus again. No I'm not going to bend over. I'm just going to head off before you even attempt to put that thing some place it shouldn't go.
Pretty sure we've had that cactus shoved some place it shouldn't go once before when we converted from all those tokens, emblems and badges to dilithium. Now that the space herpes is in and spreading like, well herpes. Am I to understand we'll be screwed over yet again?
I assume you have a good or at least half baked reason for this?
Having a time gate on the XP missions seems reasonable, since the idea is that you're doing something that takes time, but the reward "missions" are really more like buying something, which should be fast. 2 hours is much more reasonable than 40, but better still would be something like 15 minutes, or 5 seconds (like the doff reassignment missions).
All of the following projects currently have a 40-hour duration. This is a variable that is under scrutiny however, and may change (they were briefly 2-hour duration on Tribble).
*snip*[/I]
So...why is this a 40 hour cooldown?
I'm not sure I understand the logic behind having people spending weeks to get items unlocked only to get to the item and not able to buy it without another 40 hour cooldown.
The 2 hour cooldown makes sense because someone can start it and go do something and come back for a play session and feel like they're being rewarded.
40 hours seems like you're stalling :P
Could it be bumped down to say 12 max and 4 min hours? Maybe 4 hours Mk X, 8 hours Mk XI, 12 hours Mk XII ?
Since we've recently increased the cost in Neural Processors necessary to purchase items, we've just increased the number of Neural Processors that will be allotted to players in the conversion. You'll be getting approximately (but not exactly) twice as many as you're seeing on Tribble right now. Numbers are still in flux.
Sorry but if I have 12 Prototype Tech, ie Mk XII, now and borticuscryptic has said we need 10 Borg Nerural Processors per Mk XII piece. I should have 120 BNP in the crate, at present I have 15 BNP. You have just said we would get about twice, making 30 BNP, therefore I'm 90 BNP short.
Daniel Stahl said in his Season 7 Dev Blog #8 "After reviewing the data, the conversion rate for most players will allow for the purchase of a partial and in some case full set of their choosing." What! :eek: If partial means one quarter of what I had before than he's spot on. Could you just have the common decency to explain why we are not getting a 1 to 1 conversion rate and why you are taking stuff away from us. :mad:
At present I could not recommend Star Trek Online to any new player, and to be honest I wouldn't recommend Neverwinter Nights either if this is how you treat players in the game as any investment players have is constantly taken away. There is no point investing time in STO, you are just better off going to play some other game.
NEVER, in any MMO i have played, have i ever seen the dev team so savagely butchering and amputating players of rewards they SPENT time accumulating LEGITELY.
There are no cheats to get Prototype Ground Borg Techs. Players had to be THERE and SPENT the time and be LUCKY over all that to acquire them.
All the rewards they got over the past months, players DESERVED them.
Other than the Dilithium Daily Officer 3 clicks which i myself find borderline an exploit, ALL OTHER content in game was grinded HARD, especially STF content ( for most players ).
I simply am flabergasted by the way devs are acting here.
Devs would tell us that they are about to do a server wipe and it would feel just BARELY harshier than what they are about to do.
So yes, cash out your chips now while you can, because real life IRS looks like gentlemen compared to STO and Perfect World bosses.
I think even casino shylocks offer better rates than Cryptic.
:mad:
Yep - right now I can buy 7 pieces of Mk XII ground or space gear with my Proto Tech - that doesn't even touch on what I can buy with the 150 EDCs, 40 Proto Salvage and 52 Rare Salvage.
My box on Tribble nets me 3000 Marks, 13 BNPs and 4000 Dilithium. Even assuming I actually get 26 BNPs (which it seems, I won't) I can buy precisely 2 pieces of Mk XII ground or space with its contents (and I'll have to pay Dilithium on top since the quantity in the box doesn't cover it).
Disgraceful.
*Edit* based on what I've got and the costs listed - to have 'comparative' (though still lesser) value from this crate I would expect to receive:
6750 Omega Marks
70 Borg Neural Processors
173,000 Dilithium (which should be refined)
= 3 x Mk XI Space, 2 x Mk XII Space 5 x Mk XII Ground.
That still doesn't take into account the value of the Rare and Proto Salvage (just the Tech and EDCs). All talk of retaining our 'purchasing power' is quite simply a bare-faced lie.
Values are fine and I think a little more reasonable, but to the end of being refined, no. It wouldn't be refined if you cash it out now, nor should it be when you crack open the case.
Presumably, the items from special projects are built, not bought. 40 hours to build something from alien technology isn't bad at all.
BTW, "equal purchasing power" is not converting each tech to enough materials to build a piece. Each tech can only buy one specific item. And if you have them in storage I assume that means you don't want that one specific item. It would be unfair to reward someone who only ever played ISE with full all sets just because they stockpiled 20 shield tech.
Fair conversion IMHO would be:
2 EDCs = 1 BNP + however many omega marks you get from an elite STF (this is the base reward for elite STFs)
1 rare salvage = whatever it costs to buy a MkX anti-borg weapon (or slightly less if the new borg weapons are better than the old ones)
1 proto salvage = whatever it costs to buy a MkXII anti-borg weapon
1 tech = maybe about 1/3rd of what it costs to build a piece of that type and mark
Seriously, when I open my box I'm going to laugh at all the people who sold their loot for ore and are still trying to get it refined. Remember its 8k a day, and thats assuming you don't do anything that rewards dilithium.
People whine about the box being locked until they gain rep, but don't calculate how long it will take to turn that pile of ore to a useful form.
People whine about the box being locked until they gain rep, but don't calculate how long it will take to turn that pile of ore to a useful form.
I dont care about it being locked, I care about the return I get from the conversion. Like I said before, I have a tonne of dilithium on a couple toons now so I no longer have to farm with them. All I have to do on those toons is log in once a day to refine. I can focus on getting my alts up to the same level as my main now and actually maybe play the game.
I dont care about it being locked, I care about the return I get from the conversion. Like I said before, I have a tonne of dilithium on a couple toons now so I no longer have to farm with them. All I have to do on those toons is log in once a day to refine. I can focus on getting my alts up to the same level as my main now and actually maybe play the game.
so basicly.. you're making it a "farmville"-clone instead of playing?
Since we've recently increased the cost in Neural Processors necessary to purchase items, we've just increased the number of Neural Processors that will be allotted to players in the conversion. You'll be getting approximately (but not exactly) twice as many as you're seeing on Tribble right now. Numbers are still in flux.
No offense but your boss promised us that some players would be given the opportunity to buy one of the new sets with the reward boxes, if they had enough STF loots. Currently, the only sets these players can buy are:
- a Mk X space set
- maybe one complete ground set, if they hit the highest tiers with stuff worth 500k dilithium or so
But what about the space sets? :rolleyes: Are you still working on the dilithium rewards or do we have to convert our stuff now?
Trying to find the T4-T5 threshold (without any techs).
30 EDC, 22 RBS, 11PS still gives me 1.5k OM, 7BNP, 1k dil (T4 box)
A toon with 54 EDC got the box above (even though he has less RBS and PS), so I think its linked to the amount of EDC.
EDIT
So i found another threshold (ish)
41edc 20 rbs, 6proto sal and 1 mk12 req form was a lvl 4 box
51 edc, 21 rbs, 7 proto sal and 1 mk12 req form was a lvl 5 box
Comments
What we're seeing is that several pieces of rare/prototype Borg tech are worth less than the cost of a single piece of MK X STF gear in S7?
I'm definitely not enjoying this so far.
Cash in your STF drops and purchase all the gear (weapons, sets) you're going to need later. Personally, I'm going to be dilithium grinding for a while under this new system, so why not grind some omega marks too. We'll have to grind anyway just to reach Tier 3 and access the crate. In the end, it's still all about the grind... except that now there isn't any randomness to it.
I feel sorry for those who weren't lucky enough to receive tech drops before. Now they have to pay for what used to be free.
Please consider removing the time-gating entirely. Time gating progression is a terrible idea, especially if there is no way to bypass the time gate (ie, by having random drops in addition to the reputation system).
500+ edc
100 proto salvage
40 rare salvage
15 space proto techs
=
4500 omega marks
15 BNP
24k dilithium ore
Why is this conversion even teired? Cause no one will get what they actually deserve.
Like comparing mine to lowestlvl's conversion above me, even though I have substantially more possible high end gear purchasing power, it gets distilled down into about half a piece of a MKXII set advantage over him.
Should be per item.
Eg 1x space proto tech = 10BNP, 1000 marks and 34k _refined_ dilithium
That would allow me to get exactly the same thing in S7 as I can right now in S6.
I can buy 15 MKXII space gear set pieces right now, after conversion I get 3 pieces worth of BNPs and not enough dilithium to even buy 1.
I'm failing to see how this conversion rate is advantageous to the players.
This. I can understand time gating the progression in reputation rank and progression projects. But to time gate the store is unwarranted.
"Hey look! New Cstore ship!" /jumps in captains seat.
"Oh wait I have to wait 120 hours before I can take it into battle..."
And what is the drop rate of BNP's going to be in an Elite Run? One per Elite mission?
So if that's the case, you gotta give more than twice the amount in the conversion, because everyone in game and here on the forum are literally cashing their chips. They see this conversion as a a very very bad deal.
After:
I would urge the developers to reconsider this conversion rate. It's not fair. It doesn't retain even a semblance of purchasing power parity. It doesn't reward players for their efforts. To the contrary, the nominal compensation given by the conversion is so meager as to be insulting.
I understand the desire to give players a reason to play through the new reputation system in its entirety. That means a grind of the STFs and other content. But for those of us who *have* been grinding faithfully, this conversion rate seems like something of a betrayal.
Please reconsider the conversion rate. I, and others, would vastly prefer something less draconian. Veteran players will thank you, and continue to be veteran players. A more beneficial conversion rate will cost Cryptic nothing.
The whole crate idea might as well be tossed out and replaced with an automatic dilithium deposit. Unless seeking omega marks, who in their right mind is going to hand over items worth 100k+ dilithium in exchange for <100k dilithium? Here, I'll give you a dime and some lint if you give me a dollar. Granted 2000 omega marks takes about 83 runs with the reward being 24 marks, so converting does save a ton of time and effort. But how long would it take to make back that lost dilithium based on the S7 dilithium reward? If the dilithium reward is the same as S6, then 612k dilithium converted down to 56k dilithium would take... 506 Elite runs, not including random drops worth dilithium (which there will be none) and weekly mission bonus.
Hardly fair.
Wha the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu?
40 hours to "buy" something? If I lived in California I'd hop in my car and find the genius who thought that was a good idea and squirt them with water like I do my cats when they're bad! Bad devs! Bad, bad design! The customers are not your enemy!
Adding a bajillion artificial time gates only pisses people off and makes them leave.
Unless we are getting something special like them Warfare Bridge Officers requistions for being screwed I might as well convert every thing I have from the STF loot into dilithium.
With all the time gating and grinding you have to do in this game at the rate its going the freaking ripoff lockbox key sales isn't going to keep this game afloat for very much longer.
Pretty sure we've had that cactus shoved some place it shouldn't go once before when we converted from all those tokens, emblems and badges to dilithium. Now that the space herpes is in and spreading like, well herpes. Am I to understand we'll be screwed over yet again?
I assume you have a good or at least half baked reason for this?
What in Jupiter's Bullocks has gotten into you guys?
WTF is there now a TIME gate just to buy ****.
you guys have lost it. This whole thing is going pear-shaped.
So...why is this a 40 hour cooldown?
I'm not sure I understand the logic behind having people spending weeks to get items unlocked only to get to the item and not able to buy it without another 40 hour cooldown.
The 2 hour cooldown makes sense because someone can start it and go do something and come back for a play session and feel like they're being rewarded.
40 hours seems like you're stalling :P
Could it be bumped down to say 12 max and 4 min hours? Maybe 4 hours Mk X, 8 hours Mk XI, 12 hours Mk XII ?
Sorry but if I have 12 Prototype Tech, ie Mk XII, now and borticuscryptic has said we need 10 Borg Nerural Processors per Mk XII piece. I should have 120 BNP in the crate, at present I have 15 BNP. You have just said we would get about twice, making 30 BNP, therefore I'm 90 BNP short.
Daniel Stahl said in his Season 7 Dev Blog #8 "After reviewing the data, the conversion rate for most players will allow for the purchase of a partial and in some case full set of their choosing." What! :eek: If partial means one quarter of what I had before than he's spot on. Could you just have the common decency to explain why we are not getting a 1 to 1 conversion rate and why you are taking stuff away from us. :mad:
At present I could not recommend Star Trek Online to any new player, and to be honest I wouldn't recommend Neverwinter Nights either if this is how you treat players in the game as any investment players have is constantly taken away. There is no point investing time in STO, you are just better off going to play some other game.
Yup, stupid isn't it :rolleyes:
There are no cheats to get Prototype Ground Borg Techs. Players had to be THERE and SPENT the time and be LUCKY over all that to acquire them.
All the rewards they got over the past months, players DESERVED them.
Other than the Dilithium Daily Officer 3 clicks which i myself find borderline an exploit, ALL OTHER content in game was grinded HARD, especially STF content ( for most players ).
I simply am flabergasted by the way devs are acting here.
Devs would tell us that they are about to do a server wipe and it would feel just BARELY harshier than what they are about to do.
So yes, cash out your chips now while you can, because real life IRS looks like gentlemen compared to STO and Perfect World bosses.
I think even casino shylocks offer better rates than Cryptic.
:mad:
Values are fine and I think a little more reasonable, but to the end of being refined, no. It wouldn't be refined if you cash it out now, nor should it be when you crack open the case.
BTW, "equal purchasing power" is not converting each tech to enough materials to build a piece. Each tech can only buy one specific item. And if you have them in storage I assume that means you don't want that one specific item. It would be unfair to reward someone who only ever played ISE with full all sets just because they stockpiled 20 shield tech.
Fair conversion IMHO would be:
2 EDCs = 1 BNP + however many omega marks you get from an elite STF (this is the base reward for elite STFs)
1 rare salvage = whatever it costs to buy a MkX anti-borg weapon (or slightly less if the new borg weapons are better than the old ones)
1 proto salvage = whatever it costs to buy a MkXII anti-borg weapon
1 tech = maybe about 1/3rd of what it costs to build a piece of that type and mark
People whine about the box being locked until they gain rep, but don't calculate how long it will take to turn that pile of ore to a useful form.
I dont care about it being locked, I care about the return I get from the conversion. Like I said before, I have a tonne of dilithium on a couple toons now so I no longer have to farm with them. All I have to do on those toons is log in once a day to refine. I can focus on getting my alts up to the same level as my main now and actually maybe play the game.
so basicly.. you're making it a "farmville"-clone instead of playing?
I've never played farmville, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
No offense but your boss promised us that some players would be given the opportunity to buy one of the new sets with the reward boxes, if they had enough STF loots. Currently, the only sets these players can buy are:
- a Mk X space set
- maybe one complete ground set, if they hit the highest tiers with stuff worth 500k dilithium or so
But what about the space sets? :rolleyes: Are you still working on the dilithium rewards or do we have to convert our stuff now?
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
30 EDC, 22 RBS, 11PS still gives me 1.5k OM, 7BNP, 1k dil (T4 box)
A toon with 54 EDC got the box above (even though he has less RBS and PS), so I think its linked to the amount of EDC.
EDIT
So i found another threshold (ish)
41edc 20 rbs, 6proto sal and 1 mk12 req form was a lvl 4 box
51 edc, 21 rbs, 7 proto sal and 1 mk12 req form was a lvl 5 box
...#LLAP...