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My B'rel

mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited November 2012 in Klingon Discussion
Last night I posted a thread in the PvP area about flying around in Ker'rat in my B'rel, I thought I'd post my build.

To be totally honest, I know it ain't very good.

To start, science toon is in this.

Equipment:

Shield/engine/deflector: Borg Set (If I get lucky before season 7 hits, I will put at least two-piece Honor Guard space on this, for the torpedo and aux bonus)

Consoles:
Tac: 3 Mk XII blue TCD Subspace Infusers
Sci: 3 Mk XII blue Stealth Modules
Enginer: 3 Mk XI blue Neutronium Alloys, sometimes switched with Monotanium, and also sometimes switch in an Impulse Burst console)

Weapons:

Fore: 2 Chroniton Torp launchers, Tric torpedo launcher, Bio Neural Warhead
Aft: 2 Tric mine launchers

Unfortunately...all those weapons are Mk XI greens. I would have better, but one...no money atm, and two I accidently liquidated all of this toon's STF assets for dil, and didn't want to.

BOFF set-up:

Cmdr as a tac: TT 1, CRF 1, torp spread 3, Dispersal pattern beta 3
Lt. Cmdr tac: TT 1, ATB 1, THY 3
Lt sci: Tractor Beam 1, Sci team 2
Lt. Engineer: Eng team 1, Aux to structural 1

So yeah...I know that's not good at all. I am gonna respec this toon soon, since the previous ship it was in, was a Vo'quv. I will be putting points into Stealth and all Projectile abilities at least.

I'd just like to say this will be almost purely for PvP in Ker'rat, staying cloaked as much as possible, and firing off loads of torpedoes and mines.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Post edited by mimey2 on
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Comments

  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    It's not totally awful by any means, and I can certainly see what you're going for, but two things strike out like a sore thumb:

    1. You have CRF on a ship without cannons
    2. Your Eng/Sci slots are a bit of a mess. Ditch both the Sci/Eng teams and consider EPtS, RSP (invaluable on a BoP), Polarize Hull, TSS or TBR. The tractor beam is good to have around though.

    I would also personally consider taking a Com. Sci and running Lt. Com/Lt. Tac instead, this plays more to your strengths as a Sci cappy since you can take Rank 3 versions of skills like Photonic Shockwave, Viral Matrix (this one is really nasty with DOffs) and Scramble Sensors.

    Generally speaking I've never had problems using stealth so long as I keep my aux preset (a power setting with auxiliary cranked up to max) on and don't wander too stupidly close to any Fed sci ships. Since you're a Sci in a B'rel no less, you should really have your aux primed at 125 all the time anyway since it not only helps with stealth but gives you a noticeable buff to your SNB and Sensor Scan. You could swap the stealth consoles out for something like a Borg console (gives that little bit extra crit chance) or some particle generators for PSW.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • mithie3mithie3 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    It's not totally awful by any means, and I can certainly see what you're going for, but two things strike out like a sore thumb:

    2. Your Eng/Sci slots are a bit of a mess. Ditch both the Sci/Eng teams and consider EPtS, RSP (invaluable on a BoP), Polarize Hull, TSS or TBR. The tractor beam is good to have around though.

    He's running a torp boat, so will be running with shields down all the time. Aux2SIF will be much better for him, as well as polarize hull.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    mithie3 wrote: »
    He's running a torp boat, so will be running with shields down all the time. Aux2SIF will be much better for him, as well as polarize hull.

    If you're taking serious heat I wouldn't recommend staying under cloak, but in that case you'd still be better served by taking HE2 (instead of ST2).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    It's not totally awful by any means, and I can certainly see what you're going for, but two things strike out like a sore thumb:

    1. You have CRF on a ship without cannons
    2. Your Eng/Sci slots are a bit of a mess. Ditch both the Sci/Eng teams and consider EPtS, RSP (invaluable on a BoP), Polarize Hull, TSS or TBR. The tractor beam is good to have around though.

    I would also personally consider taking a Com. Sci and running Lt. Com/Lt. Tac instead, this plays more to your strengths as a Sci cappy since you can take Rank 3 versions of skills like Photonic Shockwave, Viral Matrix (this one is really nasty with DOffs) and Scramble Sensors.

    Generally speaking I've never had problems using stealth so long as I keep my aux preset (a power setting with auxiliary cranked up to max) on and don't wander too stupidly close to any Fed sci ships. Since you're a Sci in a B'rel no less, you should really have your aux primed at 125 all the time anyway since it not only helps with stealth but gives you a noticeable buff to your SNB and Sensor Scan. You could swap the stealth consoles out for something like a Borg console (gives that little bit extra crit chance) or some particle generators for PSW.

    Did I put CRF? I meant CSV, but still, I know. Most of my BOFFs were just carried over as-is from my Vo'quv. What would you recommend I put in it's place though? I would guess a Mine pattern, or an Attack pattern.

    That is true, I need to fix up my eng/sci slots. I mostly had to sci team to counter other SNB users, AMS, etc.

    I'm thinking...E-power to shields 1, Aux to structural 1 still, along with Tractor Beam 1, and HE 2. A couple hull heals, both of which will be helped by my high aux, along with a shield heal for those times I might need it.

    I do keep my aux high a lot of the time, but it's set at 90, not 100. Partially because of Warp Core Potential (as her spec stands atm), but also because of a blue Technician I have from owning the DS9 bundle, which gives me 15 Aux while cloaked. This lets me put more into engines. I do have the Borg console, which I wouldn't mind using, but with my Stealth consoles, skill, and high aux, I'm barely ever seen by anyone unless an ability manages to knock me out of it (CPB, Warp plasma, etc), or I fire torpedoes or use an ability on someone else.

    My other DOFFs are quite crummy, mostly some torpedo reducing ones, and the Technician. Again, no cash to buy better ones atm.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • redstarsweredstarswe Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    You are in luck! If you really want to run a torp bop there is a really good thread for it:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=258010

    Have a good read:) Weapon power to 25, max out aux and put the rest where you see fit;) Good luck:)
    A contract is a contract...(but only between Ferengi).
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    Bio-Neural is a Tricobalt torpedo type. They are going to put each other on cooldown (torpedo and mines).

    Tractor Beam, I believe, also forces you out of cloak, no?

    If you spend most of your time in cloak, you don't really need Sci Team. Pick up another hull healer like Hazard Emitters.

    I have 6 skill points in Stealth and no stealth consoles. I can sit on top of a Sci Captain's Sci ship who has 125 aux (while mine is at 118), and he can't see me at 0km. The stealth consoles aren't needed. If someone hits you with something that is going to reveal you're location, you're SOL no matter how many consoles you have.

    In place of the sci consoles, consider universal ones. Such as the Assimilated Module. I have the Rule 62 console, which gives 11% to mine and torpedo damage. If I had more Lobi crystals on my Klingon (they are all on my Fed now), I would consider getting the Tachyokinetic Converter, but it's not necessary for a B'rel.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    shookyang wrote: »
    Bio-Neural is a Tricobalt torpedo type. They are going to put each other on cooldown (torpedo and mines).

    Tractor Beam, I believe, also forces you out of cloak, no?

    If you spend most of your time in cloak, you don't really need Sci Team. Pick up another hull healer like Hazard Emitters.

    I have 6 skill points in Stealth and no stealth consoles. I can sit on top of a Sci Captain's Sci ship who has 125 aux (while mine is at 118), and he can't see me at 0km. The stealth consoles aren't needed. If someone hits you with something that is going to reveal you're location, you're SOL no matter how many consoles you have.

    In place of the sci consoles, consider universal ones. Such as the Assimilated Module. I have the Rule 62 console, which gives 11% to mine and torpedo damage. If I had more Lobi crystals on my Klingon (they are all on my Fed now), I would consider getting the Tachyokinetic Converter, but it's not necessary for a B'rel.

    While the part about stealth consoles not being necessary as long as you have aux up is certainly the case, I would warn against parking over Fed sci ships. Sure, if they don't know what they're doing you'll be fine, but it only takes you meeting that one player you shouldn't have underestimated using Sensor Scan and you're vapor dust.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    While the part about stealth consoles not being necessary as long as you have aux up is certainly the case, I would warn against parking over Fed sci ships. Sure, if they don't know what they're doing you'll be fine, but it only takes you meeting that one player you shouldn't have underestimated using Sensor Scan and you're vapor dust.
    If you're flying B'rel, weapon power isn't needed, nor is shield power. So, it's entirely possible to have high aux power (in fact, you should for the cloak, heals, and any debuffs).

    But, my example was more to illustrate that the stealth consoles weren't needed. I was merely giving my experience from a test I ran to see what the detection range was.

    My Tactical Escort Retrofit can be detected from about 2km, and I have low aux power (39/25) and no points into stealth. But, my B'rel is pretty much undetectable unless someone uses a reveal ability.

    Besides, if I'm at 0km from my target, I can't fire my Bio-Neural Warhead (I wouldn't want to anyways, as the shockwave will kill me too) or my Breen Cluster torp.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    redstarswe wrote: »
    You are in luck! If you really want to run a torp bop there is a really good thread for it:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=258010

    Have a good read:) Weapon power to 25, max out aux and put the rest where you see fit;) Good luck:)

    Thank you. I won't be reading all 28 pages of that right now, but I will soon.
    shookyang wrote: »
    Bio-Neural is a Tricobalt torpedo type. They are going to put each other on cooldown (torpedo and mines).

    Tractor Beam, I believe, also forces you out of cloak, no?

    If you spend most of your time in cloak, you don't really need Sci Team. Pick up another hull healer like Hazard Emitters.

    I have 6 skill points in Stealth and no stealth consoles. I can sit on top of a Sci Captain's Sci ship who has 125 aux (while mine is at 118), and he can't see me at 0km. The stealth consoles aren't needed. If someone hits you with something that is going to reveal you're location, you're SOL no matter how many consoles you have.

    In place of the sci consoles, consider universal ones. Such as the Assimilated Module. I have the Rule 62 console, which gives 11% to mine and torpedo damage. If I had more Lobi crystals on my Klingon (they are all on my Fed now), I would consider getting the Tachyokinetic Converter, but it's not necessary for a B'rel.

    Actually, the two tric mines have a shared cooldown, and the Bio-neural and Tric torpedo have a cooldown, but the four do not share cooldown between each other (mines and torps). I have noticed that I can fire my Bio-neural and a Chroniton torpedo with each other though.

    By Tractor Beam, do you mean me tractoring another, or being tractored? It's yes for both though. I find it useful for holding someone down, be it for them to get tric mined, or keeping them from moving for someone else.

    I keep most of my lobi on one toon, expensive enough getting things as is.

    Even so, my thought on the stealth is that if I am gonna be seen when I fire off abilities and torps, ok. But when I do, I wanna get back into such a strong stealth that I can't be found, even if I was sitting still. If I get caught by a de-cloak ability, that is my fault to have been caught in the first place.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Well, one nice trick can be to keep two power presets: one with power split between engines and shields, and one that maxes out aux first and dumps the rest into engines. Use the latter when you're cloaked and the former when you're decloaked/escaping.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Actually, the two tric mines have a shared cooldown, and the Bio-neural and Tric torpedo have a cooldown, but the four do not share cooldown between each other (mines and torps). I have noticed that I can fire my Bio-neural and a Chroniton torpedo with each other though.

    By Tractor Beam, do you mean me tractoring another, or being tractored? It's yes for both though. I find it useful for holding someone down, be it for them to get tric mined, or keeping them from moving for someone else.

    I keep most of my lobi on one toon, expensive enough getting things as is.

    Even so, my thought on the stealth is that if I am gonna be seen when I fire off abilities and torps, ok. But when I do, I wanna get back into such a strong stealth that I can't be found, even if I was sitting still. If I get caught by a de-cloak ability, that is my fault to have been caught in the first place.
    Unless they've changed something, I'm positive I dropped a tricobalt mine and it put my bio-neural on 30 second cooldown. Just like when I fired a bio-neural warhead and it put my aft tricobalt torpedo on 30 second cooldown (and vice versa).

    Bio-neural is a tricobalt type (right click on the torpedo and go to Info). Chronitons are chronitons.

    While you are holding your target in place with tractor beams, you can now be targeted for 15 seconds while you're cloak is on cooldown. Also, you lose the 15% damage buff from decloaking after 5 seconds, so you're torpedoes are doing less. Usually, with my fore weapon setup, I can fire off all of my fore weapons before the 5 seconds are up, and while I'm auto-cloaking, I'm waiting on torpedo cooldowns anyways.

    I like the Rule 62 console. Tachyokinetic Converter is also nice, but I don't really need the turn rate buff (cloaked, my B'rel's turn rate is already 52+).

    Like I had said before, with 6 skill points into Stealth, and 118 auxiliary power, I cannot be detected at 0km. Having Stealth consoles is overkill and wastes console space (for me at least).
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    Well, one nice trick can be to keep two power presets: one with power split between engines and shields, and one that maxes out aux first and dumps the rest into engines. Use the latter when you're cloaked and the former when you're decloaked/escaping.
    I don't find shields particularly useful for a B'rel torpedo boat. If I'm decloaked, I usually just hit evasive maneuvers and Jam Sensors to get away.

    Yeah, Jam Sensors isn't helpful to the team, but you really have to pick and choose abilities that isn't going to reveal you when you don't want it to.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Last night I posted a thread in the PvP area about flying around in Ker'rat in my B'rel, I thought I'd post my build.

    To be totally honest, I know it ain't very good.

    To start, science toon is in this.

    Equipment:

    Shield/engine/deflector: Borg Set (If I get lucky before season 7 hits, I will put at least two-piece Honor Guard space on this, for the torpedo and aux bonus)

    Consoles:
    Tac: 3 Mk XII blue TCD Subspace Infusers
    Sci: 3 Mk XII blue Stealth Modules
    Enginer: 3 Mk XI blue Neutronium Alloys, sometimes switched with Monotanium, and also sometimes switch in an Impulse Burst console)

    Weapons:

    Fore: 2 Chroniton Torp launchers, Tric torpedo launcher, Bio Neural Warhead
    Aft: 2 Tric mine launchers

    Unfortunately...all those weapons are Mk XI greens. I would have better, but one...no money atm, and two I accidently liquidated all of this toon's STF assets for dil, and didn't want to.

    BOFF set-up:

    Cmdr as a tac: TT 1, CRF 1, torp spread 3, Dispersal pattern beta 3
    Lt. Cmdr tac: TT 1, ATB 1, THY 3
    Lt sci: Tractor Beam 1, Sci team 2
    Lt. Engineer: Eng team 1, Aux to structural 1

    So yeah...I know that's not good at all. I am gonna respec this toon soon, since the previous ship it was in, was a Vo'quv. I will be putting points into Stealth and all Projectile abilities at least.

    I'd just like to say this will be almost purely for PvP in Ker'rat, staying cloaked as much as possible, and firing off loads of torpedoes and mines.

    I'll ignore that you have cannon rapid fire in a ship with no cannons (and you shouldnt use energy weapons with a b'rel anyway)

    My suggestions/observations:

    Tricobalt and Bioneural is a poor choice. They share timers. Using this combo makes your b'rel lose the firepower of one weapon slot.

    Try: Chroniton x2, bioneural, harghpeng.

    I understand why you use chronitons..slows the target down for the mines to hit... but in practical terms the effect of the chroniton slow wears off very quickly and in most cases your mines will not benefit from this. Worse yet, the target ship seeing himself slowed and mines dropped near him, will target the mines or use fire at will or cannon spread to take them out.

    This is why I strongly suggest changing your chronitons for plasma torpedoes.

    Try this: 2x plasma torpedo, bioneural torp, breen cluster.

    Using the Reman set 2 piece and high yield 3 & high yield 2 you launch 2 heavy plasma torps that fly fast and are hard to shoot down... and with the bioneural and breen cluster flying to target at the same time you give the target ship an eyeful of incoming pain....

    ...which they tend to target first...

    ..and ignore or miss the REAL damage dealing tricobalt mines about to slap them back to the respawn point.

    LT stations:

    As a bird of prey you simply cannot afford to stay visible and targetable. Tractor beam keeps you uncloaked and thats not good at all. Heal-wise you lack the ability to survive the real bird of prey killers: torpedoes that come after you after you cloak and DOT attacks.

    Instant heals like the ones you use may be good for taking one hit but the next one takes you out.

    You also have no means of defending yourself against a much more powerful target if they're on to you.

    I suggest:

    LT Sci: Jam Sensors 1, Scramble Sensors 1
    LT Sci (yes, another): Polarize Hull 1, Hazard emitter 2

    What this does: Jam sensors allows you to decloak, jam them, fire your ordenance and mines and cloak back before they can target you. The jam is not broken until the target gets hit once or twice... and your heavy torpedoes as outlined above take just about that same amount of time.

    If you are tractored you can polarize hull to break off or jam/scramble the ship that tractors you..it will lose the lock.

    Hazard emitters are amazing. They will remove any damage over time effects, heal your ship hull for nearly three times your entire hull HP...and if you have 3 or 4 torpedoes coming your way while you're cloaked...that thing heals you while you're cloaked even as you get hit. You literally have to be hit by a high yield attack while cloaked to not survive it with hazard on.

    Scramble sensors are also excellent to use when dumping mines in the middle of a fight. The splash animation hides the mine drop&spreadout animation....not to mention it breaks the lock of any enemy ship inside its area effect and that is GREAT when you're fighting in a cloud of enemies and friendlies.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Well, one nice trick can be to keep two power presets: one with power split between engines and shields, and one that maxes out aux first and dumps the rest into engines. Use the latter when you're cloaked and the former when you're decloaked/escaping.

    Actually, you should not even be bothering with shield power in a b'rel. You dont regenerate them while cloaked and you REALLY dont want to be uncloaked when anything that can shoot is anywhere near you.

    I put 80 power to engine and the rest to AUX.
    shookyang wrote: »
    Unless they've changed something, I'm positive I dropped a tricobalt mine and it put my bio-neural on 30 second cooldown. Just like when I fired a bio-neural warhead and it put my aft tricobalt torpedo on 30 second cooldown (and vice versa).

    This was changed 2 patches ago. Tricobalt based torpedoes do not trigger timer on the tricobalt mines and viceversa.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    This was changed 2 patches ago. Tricobalt based torpedoes do not trigger timer on the tricobalt mines and viceversa.
    Good to know. Though, I think I'll stick with a chroniton and plasma torpedo in the aft.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If its for damage you need to understand the damage multipliers the torpedoes use.

    Quantums have the highest modifier. About 650% at HY3
    Photons have 2nd highest at about 480% at HY3

    All other torpedoes except transphasics and chronitons have a 350% bonus

    Transphasics and Chronitons have a mere 200% bonus.

    By using chronitons you are trading damage output for a mere short term slow effect.

    Tricobalts have unique mechanics for their high yield and spread. the high yield matches heavy plasma (mostly) and spread simply fires x tricobalts based on x number of ships in the firing arc and based on the tier of torpedo spread used.

    Plasma heavy torpedoes on the other hand have an interesting mechanic. They get a 700% damage bonus that decreases over distance the heavy plasma flies. The dot of the plasma also gets a large boost in damage...and heavy plasma dots STACK.

    The downside is the heavy plasma is SLOW and has poor 'hitpoints' so it dies to anything.

    The reman 2 piece set solves all that. The heavy plasma flies fast, is hard to hit and has more hitpoints. Most importantly: it does not lose damage over distance.

    Using heavy plasma with the reman set allows you to use a rather nifty trick in the b'rel:

    At 10km fire both heavy plasma. Autocloak. If you have timed your high yields and are using the Tac Capt timer reduction ability you can fire two more heavy plasma before the first pair of heavy plasma hits...and you fire this second volley along with your breen and bioneural torpedo...and your mines under 5km range.

    Avg dmg of a heavy plasma under high yield 2 under atk ptrn omega 1 is about 50k. The dot is about 500 per tick.

    ...so you practically deliver 200k~ dmg with plasma alone, stack 2k/tick of dot on target and add bioneural's ~80k and breen's ~30k damage before the quad tricobalts race in for the glorious finish.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    If its for damage you need to understand the damage multipliers the torpedoes use.

    Quantums have the highest modifier. About 650% at HY3
    Photons have 2nd highest at about 480% at HY3

    All other torpedoes except transphasics and chronitons have a 350% bonus

    Transphasics and Chronitons have a mere 200% bonus.

    By using chronitons you are trading damage output for a mere short term slow effect.

    Tricobalts have unique mechanics for their high yield and spread. the high yield matches heavy plasma (mostly) and spread simply fires x tricobalts based on x number of ships in the firing arc and based on the tier of torpedo spread used.

    Plasma heavy torpedoes on the other hand have an interesting mechanic. They get a 700% damage bonus that decreases over distance the heavy plasma flies. The dot of the plasma also gets a large boost in damage...and heavy plasma dots STACK.

    The downside is the heavy plasma is SLOW and has poor 'hitpoints' so it dies to anything.

    The reman 2 piece set solves all that. The heavy plasma flies fast, is hard to hit and has more hitpoints. Most importantly: it does not lose damage over distance.

    Using heavy plasma with the reman set allows you to use a rather nifty trick in the b'rel:

    At 10km fire both heavy plasma. Autocloak. If you have timed your high yields and are using the Tac Capt timer reduction ability you can fire two more heavy plasma before the first pair of heavy plasma hits...and you fire this second volley along with your breen and bioneural torpedo...and your mines under 5km range.

    Avg dmg of a heavy plasma under high yield 2 under atk ptrn omega 1 is about 50k. The dot is about 500 per tick.

    ...so you practically deliver 200k~ dmg with plasma alone, stack 2k/tick of dot on target and add bioneural's ~80k and breen's ~30k damage before the quad tricobalts race in for the glorious finish.
    I only use the chroniton with T:S1 at initial start in Ker'rat. I try to get out of the Fed ball as quickly as possible, while affecting their speed/turn rate. Beyond that, I only turn to fire when I'm waiting on my fore torpedoes to come off cooldown.

    I only use the Plasma torpedo for the plasma burn to stack on my Hargh'Peng.

    On my fore, I use Quantum, Bio-Neural, Breen Cluster, and Hargh'Peng, in that order. The only ability that works with my HY3 is the Quantums, and, according to your information, doesn't lose damage over distance?

    In any case, I use the Quantum torpedoes to damage the shields enough for the Bio-Neural and Breen Cluster to do more hull damage. Hargh'Peng is for additional damage and DOT.

    It works very well.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Ok, well, I did make some changes to my B'rel, not very science heavy still, but mostly wanted to upgrade the weapons, and at the time, I hadn't read Cmdrskyfaller's first post higher in the page.

    So, here's the changes I made, at least for now:

    BOFFs: No more cannon ability, it's a Dispersal Pattern Beta 1 atm. The Lt. slots are E-power to shields 1 and Aux to structural 1, along with Tractor Beam 1 and HE 2.

    Most of the weapons were upgraded, The Tric mines both have CrtDx3, the Chronitons both have Acc and a couple other modifiers I can't remember atm, the tric torpedo...I can't remember atm. All of them though are Mk XI very rares, plus the Bio Neural.
    I'll ignore that you have cannon rapid fire in a ship with no cannons (and you shouldnt use energy weapons with a b'rel anyway)

    My suggestions/observations:

    Tricobalt and Bioneural is a poor choice. They share timers. Using this combo makes your b'rel lose the firepower of one weapon slot.

    Try: Chroniton x2, bioneural, harghpeng.

    I understand why you use chronitons..slows the target down for the mines to hit... but in practical terms the effect of the chroniton slow wears off very quickly and in most cases your mines will not benefit from this. Worse yet, the target ship seeing himself slowed and mines dropped near him, will target the mines or use fire at will or cannon spread to take them out.

    This is why I strongly suggest changing your chronitons for plasma torpedoes.

    Try this: 2x plasma torpedo, bioneural torp, breen cluster.

    Using the Reman set 2 piece and high yield 3 & high yield 2 you launch 2 heavy plasma torps that fly fast and are hard to shoot down... and with the bioneural and breen cluster flying to target at the same time you give the target ship an eyeful of incoming pain....

    ...which they tend to target first...

    ..and ignore or miss the REAL damage dealing tricobalt mines about to slap them back to the respawn point.

    LT stations:

    As a bird of prey you simply cannot afford to stay visible and targetable. Tractor beam keeps you uncloaked and thats not good at all. Heal-wise you lack the ability to survive the real bird of prey killers: torpedoes that come after you after you cloak and DOT attacks.

    Instant heals like the ones you use may be good for taking one hit but the next one takes you out.

    You also have no means of defending yourself against a much more powerful target if they're on to you.

    I suggest:

    LT Sci: Jam Sensors 1, Scramble Sensors 1
    LT Sci (yes, another): Polarize Hull 1, Hazard emitter 2

    What this does: Jam sensors allows you to decloak, jam them, fire your ordenance and mines and cloak back before they can target you. The jam is not broken until the target gets hit once or twice... and your heavy torpedoes as outlined above take just about that same amount of time.

    If you are tractored you can polarize hull to break off or jam/scramble the ship that tractors you..it will lose the lock.

    Hazard emitters are amazing. They will remove any damage over time effects, heal your ship hull for nearly three times your entire hull HP...and if you have 3 or 4 torpedoes coming your way while you're cloaked...that thing heals you while you're cloaked even as you get hit. You literally have to be hit by a high yield attack while cloaked to not survive it with hazard on.

    Scramble sensors are also excellent to use when dumping mines in the middle of a fight. The splash animation hides the mine drop&spreadout animation....not to mention it breaks the lock of any enemy ship inside its area effect and that is GREAT when you're fighting in a cloud of enemies and friendlies.

    I did find it very annoying, waiting 15 seconds between torp shots, be it for my Bio neural, or my tric torp when I fired the opposite one. I'll ditch the Tric torp, I won't miss it.

    But I am interested in your Reman set idea. I don't have it (don't like doing the Vault) on this toon, but when season 7 hits, I will look into it more. For now, I will still probably look at getting the Honor guard space set, at least as a different choice to go with, even if I don't use it. This is mostly for the torpedo damage bonus and aux power buff.

    But all those targettable torpedoes (and ones not sharing long cooldowns at that) does mean they will focus on those to start usually. Plus the Jam and Scrambled sensors means they might waste a science team or something to remove em, still meaning that they are focused on something else first, and all the better to get hammered by the real damage dealers.

    Tractor beam is going though, too much of a liability, not enough of an asset. I learned that way too well earlier in Ker'rat. It could help, but if someone used that time to tractor me or anything, I was as good as gone. So that's going, and I certainly shall get a PH in it's place.

    I will also probably be taking off the Stealth consoles. I respeced more properly today as well, focusing on putting points into Stealth, along with projectile weapons. Any other good recommendations for sci consoles?

    I will be looking more into the Reman set, until I get more ECs and season 7 hits, then I will probably get it, and some plasma torpedoes.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I will also probably be taking off the Stealth consoles. I respeced more properly today as well, focusing on putting points into Stealth, along with projectile weapons. Any other good recommendations for sci consoles?
    I just use the 2 set KHG for the 25% torpedo bonus.

    The only Sci console I have is the Flow Capcitors, for boosting my Tachyon Beam 3 and Aceton Assimilators.

    My console layout is:
    1) Eng = Neutronium Alloy x2, Assimilated Module
    2) Sci = Flow Capacitors, Rule 62, Aceton Assimilators
    3) Tact = Warhead Yield Chamber x3
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    mimey2 wrote: »

    But I am interested in your Reman set idea. I don't have it (don't like doing the Vault) on this toon, but when season 7 hits, I will look into it more. For now, I will still probably look at getting the Honor guard space set, at least as a different choice to go with, even if I don't use it. This is mostly for the torpedo damage bonus and aux power buff.

    Get it now. The grind for the reman set will be horribly long once the reputation system goes live. You really need to win the Vault only three times to get both pieces of gear you need (its a 2 set piece bonus). I got both mk11 parts in one day.
    shookyang wrote: »
    I only use the chroniton with T:S1 at initial start in Ker'rat. I try to get out of the Fed ball as quickly as possible, while affecting their speed/turn rate. Beyond that, I only turn to fire when I'm waiting on my fore torpedoes to come off cooldown.

    I only use the Plasma torpedo for the plasma burn to stack on my Hargh'Peng.

    On my fore, I use Quantum, Bio-Neural, Breen Cluster, and Hargh'Peng, in that order. The only ability that works with my HY3 is the Quantums, and, according to your information, doesn't lose damage over distance?

    In any case, I use the Quantum torpedoes to damage the shields enough for the Bio-Neural and Breen Cluster to do more hull damage. Hargh'Peng is for additional damage and DOT.

    It works very well.

    That does sound good. I was thinking you were using the same dual chroniton setup. :)

    Heavy plasma is the only torp that loses damage over distance (5km+ its weak) unless you using the reman set.
    shookyang wrote: »
    I just use the 2 set KHG for the 25% torpedo bonus.

    The only Sci console I have is the Flow Capcitors, for boosting my Tachyon Beam 3 and Aceton Assimilators.

    My console layout is:
    1) Eng = Neutronium Alloy x2, Assimilated Module
    2) Sci = Flow Capacitors, Rule 62, Aceton Assimilators
    3) Tact = Warhead Yield Chamber x3

    The video I posted shows me using the tachyon beam. I was testing it. I realized its a waste as the shield drain is too weak (extremely weak) and the b'rel autocloak is put on hold while it is being fired and that got me killed more times than I cared for.


    Note: Even if you maxed out on stealth skill (9) you still need to load 1 blue mk11 or better stealth module. NPCs and players will detect you at close range unless you have it. Without the console you will be fired upon by npc's at about 2km range.. with the console you can literally bounce off their hulls and not get detected.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    Heavy plasma is the only torp that loses damage over distance (5km+ its weak) unless you using the reman set.
    I try to avoid being within 5km to avoid tractor grabs and other reveal abilities.

    The video I posted shows me using the tachyon beam. I was testing it. I realized its a waste as the shield drain is too weak (extremely weak) and the b'rel autocloak is put on hold while it is being fired and that got me killed more times than I cared for.


    Note: Even if you maxed out on stealth skill (9) you still need to load 1 blue mk11 or better stealth module. NPCs and players will detect you at close range unless you have it. Without the console you will be fired upon by npc's at about 2km range.. with the console you can literally bounce off their hulls and not get detected.
    Do you have points in Flow Capacitors? Excluding Power Insulator resistance, I can get about a 4k shield drain with Tachyon Beam 3. It's not great, but it's not horrible. I didn't find any of the other sci abilities as useful. I tend to use Tachyon Beam after I launch my first torpedo. I believe Tachyon Beam drains for for 4 seconds? That should be enough time for all of my torpedoes to launch and begin to recloak.

    I have had a different experience from you regarding the the Stealth skill and no Stealth console. I have been 0km away from a Science officer in a Sci ship with his aux at 125 (while my Aux was at 118), and he couldn't see me. I've also flown past a gate in Khitomer and Infected Elite after getting aggro, and it never fired on me as I flew right in front of it.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Tachyon beam lasts for 10 seconds. The drain is miserable imo when you consider it keeps you uncloaked for longer than you should be. You only have 3 seconds to unload ordnance before the auto-cloak kicks in.

    Plus, tachyon beam counts as an attack to NPCs and you get instant-return fire on you...which means torpedoes that will track you when cloaked.

    It just didn't work for me. My attack runs are less than 5 seconds and my torps/mines hit after I re-cloak.

    I think the tach beam works a lot better in a raptor. A BoP just cant take much hits nor keep nose on target for too long...or get too close to a target.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    Ability Type: Shield Drain
    Activation: 0.83 sec
    Range: 10 km; 90' targeting arc
    Duration: 0.4 - 3.6 sec
    Recharge Time: 30 sec

    http://www.stowiki.org/Tachyon_Beam

    I've fired it without me moving and my target in my firing arc the entire time. I'm positive it didn't go for 10 seconds. The duration on wiki (and in-game) says the duration is 4 seconds.

    What you might be thinking of is that it drains -X to shields over 10 "pulse". I don't know if 1 pulse = 1 second in-game.

    Also, the auto-cloak activates 3 seconds after you've stopped firing torpedoes. Not from when you start.

    As for tracking torpedoes, I usually aren't concerned about them. Just before they hit, I use BFI and/or Hazard Emitters. If I'm still in bad shape, I'll use A2SIF and Engineering Team for some more instant heal.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Get it now. The grind for the reman set will be horribly long once the reputation system goes live. You really need to win the Vault only three times to get both pieces of gear you need (its a 2 set piece bonus). I got both mk11 parts in one day.

    Note: Even if you maxed out on stealth skill (9) you still need to load 1 blue mk11 or better stealth module. NPCs and players will detect you at close range unless you have it. Without the console you will be fired upon by npc's at about 2km range.. with the console you can literally bounce off their hulls and not get detected.

    You have a point there. Best to get it, same with the STFs while it is free. I just REALLY hate the Vault.

    I did notice that with my consoles on still, I could bump off of hulls and never be seen. Almost all the time. One sci ship saw me for a moment yesterday and sensor scanned me when I was close, revealing me further.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    players and npc have different detection rules.

    Players with high aux detect you farther. Aka sci ships.

    When I said bump hulls I mean NPC's. Without my 1 stealth console borg cubes in elite stfs shoot me at 2km range (and ive 9 stealth skill) if they've got aggro on me. With the console they dont spot me until I bounce off their sides (and not even then at times).


    Shook: Interesting. 10 pulses in 3 to 4 seconds? That doesn't match what I remember using in my fed sci ship. The beam lasted quite a bit longer than that. Ill have to fire my fed sci ship again and see.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I admit, I had an interesting, if VERY expensive idea.

    Technicians, and I don't mean an Aux to Battery build, but the technicians who give you aux power while cloaked. I have a blue one, but there are purples out there, and I believe you could equip 3 of them.

    Which pretty much means that you could have low to minimum aux power, cloak in a B'rel, and then suddenly have pretty much maxed aux power. In turn, you could run with pretty much maxed out engine power with little to no loss on the aux side.

    I don't have the 30+ million EC to test this idea, but I wanted to put it out there.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I admit, I had an interesting, if VERY expensive idea.

    Technicians, and I don't mean an Aux to Battery build, but the technicians who give you aux power while cloaked. I have a blue one, but there are purples out there, and I believe you could equip 3 of them.

    Which pretty much means that you could have low to minimum aux power, cloak in a B'rel, and then suddenly have pretty much maxed aux power. In turn, you could run with pretty much maxed out engine power with little to no loss on the aux side.

    I don't have the 30+ million EC to test this idea, but I wanted to put it out there.
    I believe Aux increases your hull heals. If you have lower power, when you decloak to fire, you will lose that Aux.

    It's fine if you heal while cloaked, but if you need to do it while you're not cloaked (in an emergency situation), then your heals won't be healing at their potential.

    Also, Aux buffs your Sci abilities if you were to use Gravity Well or something.

    I have my engines at 74 or something, and that seems to be plenty fast as it is. Don't want to beat your bio-neural warhead to your target and risk splash damage with no shields.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    The biggest change I would like to see is a more balanced take on that 3 second decloak I believe when using certain boff skills that it should do the 3 second decloaking because the way torpedoes work and even transphasic its too much of a downside playing a b'rel for its intended use.

    Although due to the majority of the player base not playing KDF the functionality of the b'rel well cater to the faction not playing it because as we have seen with the lack of development of the KDF faction they do not care about the KDF because it doesn't bring them the kind of money they want to see out of it and money talks. Unless some KDF person writes them a check for a million dollars to do KDF development we will never see anything more than lockbox TRIBBLE for the KDF.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    shookyang wrote: »
    I believe Aux increases your hull heals. If you have lower power, when you decloak to fire, you will lose that Aux.

    It's fine if you heal while cloaked, but if you need to do it while you're not cloaked (in an emergency situation), then your heals won't be healing at their potential.

    Also, Aux buffs your Sci abilities if you were to use Gravity Well or something.

    I have my engines at 74 or something, and that seems to be plenty fast as it is. Don't want to beat your bio-neural warhead to your target and risk splash damage with no shields.

    It adjusts a couple of them: Aux to structural and HE.

    True though in that with low aux power while uncloaked, you could be really hurting, though if you don't start running, healing or no, you might be dead anyways.

    Outrunning a Bio-neural would be kinda funny though. Still, good point.

    I can't actually test and see if this is a viable, usable idea since I don't have that kind of EC to do so. Still, it was a different kind of thought at least.
    The biggest change I would like to see is a more balanced take on that 3 second decloak I believe when using certain boff skills that it should do the 3 second decloaking because the way torpedoes work and even transphasic its too much of a downside playing a b'rel for its intended use.

    Although due to the majority of the player base not playing KDF the functionality of the b'rel well cater to the faction not playing it because as we have seen with the lack of development of the KDF faction they do not care about the KDF because it doesn't bring them the kind of money they want to see out of it and money talks. Unless some KDF person writes them a check for a million dollars to do KDF development we will never see anything more than lockbox TRIBBLE for the KDF.

    If memory serves, in the past, the B'rel used to never, or almost never decloak unless you chose to, or got hit with a de-cloaking abillity. So you could almost constantly heal from a cloaked B'rel, another KDF ship, and they would never ever seem to die.

    Though I believe lotsa Fed whining took place, and thus the 3 second decloak was put in.

    But a player who's been on the forums and game longer than me could probably give a more exact story.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited November 2012
    mimey2 wrote: »
    It adjusts a couple of them: Aux to structural and HE.

    True though in that with low aux power while uncloaked, you could be really hurting, though if you don't start running, healing or no, you might be dead anyways.

    Outrunning a Bio-neural would be kinda funny though. Still, good point.

    I can't actually test and see if this is a viable, usable idea since I don't have that kind of EC to do so. Still, it was a different kind of thought at least.
    Sometimes, I get fired on by people waiting for me to decloak. I've had many Tactical Escort Retrofits decloak shortly after I did to try and get me. Those are the times I'm glad I have HE and A2SIF (and Engineering Team).

    I've outran my Bio-Neurals a few times and have killed myself in the process. It was funny, but it sucked.
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