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Proposal for a Vesta-like Retrofit for the KDF

zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
edited November 2012 in Klingon Discussion
This idea I have being there is probally little to no time in schedule for any C-Store KDF ships so I would think if there is to be one that its something to hold us primarily KDF players off for quite some time.

The idea is somewhat a cross over of the 1000 day ship, the multi vector, and the vesta. The idea itself is the game mechanics behind the multi vector where it can change stats of the ship as far as hull/power settings/etc, the moving parts of the 1000 day ship, and it being a pack ship idea.

The idea is that it would be primarily 100% Klingon race architecture design so it wouldn't have anything of other races within empire like orion, nausicaan, gorn, etc ship tech. With this idea depending on the mode selected like the Veteran Ship when it goes between modes it would have movable parts but it would change the composition of the ship. The modes would be Its normal mode as Negh'Var Heavy Battle Cruiser with justified stats. With moving parts where it can compact itself into a lower hull composition it would then be a Negh'Var version of a Raptor, and then the last mode from the mode of Negh'Var HBC it would then fully extend outward to be a Carrier. The idea behind the carrier part is that the smaller pieces that retract inward would create 2 hangars of K'vort bops that would be unique just to this ship and would only be able to sustain 1 K'vort for each hangar so there could never be more than 2 of these bops out at any given time.

My basic idea is that it would be a multi role ship but in my view the stats of it would excel as a Heavy Battle Cruiser of how they are primarily designed but reflect in the different modes that the ship could be used by any class in theory without any major differences a lot like the bortasqu' is but wouldn't take away from uniqueness of raptors and carriers.

Anyways I just thought about how unique the Vesta is going to be and though how some small features here and there could be adapted to make something unique for the KDF too. It would be a step in the right direction if we ever had a Delta Quadrant reputation system where you couldn't just twarp between Alpha and Delta Quadrants and would need multi-role ships for each faction to survive the harsh situations the Voyager crew encountered.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Thing is, the Vesta doesn't change modes or have super stats or anything. Strip away the extra consoles and the hangar, and you're left with basically a Fleet RSV with some universal BOFFs. If you build a KDF equivalent, wouldn't a closer match be to take some kind of middle-of-the-road ship, buff it to fleet levels, but then load it up with fancy consoles to differentiate the versions? If anything do the technology base as an Imperial Unity design, with the expertise of each member race as justification for a wide assortment of available toys. It'd be the first ship in the Empire to not limit itself to the strengths of merely one race, but combine those of several. After all, the justification for the Vesta's strengths is that its a thoroughly documented USS Mary Sue, and any sort of counterpart is going to likewise need a good story, right?
  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I'd definitely back a Vesta-counterpart on the KDF, but not in this manner.

    Just:

    1) reskin with Orion aesthetics
    2) Change NOTHING
    3) ???
    4) PROFIT!

    In fact, I recommend this happening for all ships in the game. Have both factions have access to the same ships, just that they look different.


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  • xantrisxantris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    After all, the justification for the Vesta's strengths is that its a thoroughly documented USS Mary Sue, and any sort of counterpart is going to likewise need a good story, right?

    No, this is a video game that takes places 30 years after the vesta prototype was built. They just need to worry about releasing Klingon ships instead of deliberately favoring one faction while flipping the other side the bird.

    If that's not financially viable(which I find laughable, modeling and importing these designs is not that expensive, especially for the non-canon Klingon ships), then they need to change the game model so that both sides can use all content.

    I'd personally be embarrassed if this was my company. You don't just tell one subsect of clients "too bad" because you screwed up by dropping the ball from the very beginning, That's so disgustingly low of a business practice that I can't even fathom it.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    After all, the justification for the Vesta's strengths is that its a thoroughly documented USS Mary Sue, and any sort of counterpart is going to likewise need a good story, right?

    Then read
    "Diplomatic Implausibility"
    "The Brave and the Bold" book 2
    and the IKS Gorkon novels

    that should be enough justification for such a ship.
  • iampulsariampulsar Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    xantris wrote: »
    No, this is a video game that takes places 30 years after the vesta prototype was built. They just need to worry about releasing Klingon ships instead of deliberately favoring one faction while flipping the other side the bird.

    If that's not financially viable(which I find laughable, modeling and importing these designs is not that expensive, especially for the non-canon Klingon ships), then they need to change the game model so that both sides can use all content.

    I'd personally be embarrassed if this was my company. You don't just tell one subsect of clients "too bad" because you screwed up by dropping the ball from the very beginning, That's so disgustingly low of a business practice that I can't even fathom it.

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  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    xantris wrote: »
    No, this is a video game that takes places 30 years after the vesta prototype was built. They just need to worry about releasing Klingon ships instead of deliberately favoring one faction while flipping the other side the bird.

    If that's not financially viable(which I find laughable, modeling and importing these designs is not that expensive, especially for the non-canon Klingon ships), then they need to change the game model so that both sides can use all content.

    I'd personally be embarrassed if this was my company. You don't just tell one subsect of clients "too bad" because you screwed up by dropping the ball from the very beginning, That's so disgustingly low of a business practice that I can't even fathom it.

    Exactly. All the KDF community has really been asking is we be treated like equals, with equal attention and resources devoted to the faction and it's unique content.

    The KDF faction has never had that. It's been neglected and left behind from the start, and the spoiled fedbears mock us for complaining about it.

    Now the KDF is well behind on numbers and popularity (due to mismanagement of this game from the start). . .and Cryptic/PWE, in their divine wisdom, have decided to use an idiotic catch-22 argument to justify not putting enough effort into the KDF side of things. At best, we get a knockoff 'counterpart' piece to a new Fed ship or mission. . .at worst, we get nothing while the Feds get more than they can possibly have a need for. All the while, everything that made the KDF unique is slowly being given away to the Feds.

    I just know they're gonna eventually give the Feds an option for the battlecloak, and 'counterparts' for the KDF battlecruisers to 'even the odds'.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    No reason why the KDF can't have a Vesta similiar vessel.

    They can even call it the Chancellor Class strike vessel after the Gorkon novels.
    Something like;

    Chancellor Class Strike vessel
    Rank Required: Lt.G
    Hull Strength: 29,000
    Shield Modifier: 1.15
    Crew: 950
    Weapons: 4 Fore, 2 Aft
    Device Slots: 3
    Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Universal, 1 Lieutenant Engineering, 1 Commander Science, 1 Ensign Universal, 1 Lieutenant Commander Tactical
    Base Turn Rate: 13 degrees per second
    Impulse Modifier: 0.16
    Sensor Analysis
    Can Equip Cannons
    Standard Cloak
    Aux Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XII [Acc] [Dmg]x2
    1 Hangar Bay with 1 wing of Siphon Drones

    No idea what the three variant special abilities would be.

    or they could draw inspiration from MisterDee's Deep Scout vessel ideas.

    One of my ideas. A simple KDF-esque of the Fed Vesta.
    Another thread exists somewhere as well, with a different build.

    Slap a nice looking skin on it and make it a KDF Starbase fleet ship or a straight Cstore ship.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • rrincyrrincy Member Posts: 1,023
    edited November 2012
    im really hoping they bring a 3 ship pack out to counter balance the vesta , its only fair hell , like khayuung said , just jiggle the stats a bit to make it more KDF-like orion or gorn skinned , and it'd be a solid ship
    12th Fleet
    Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
    U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
  • therealsivartherealsivar Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I made a similar thread in the Fleetyard section earlier if you're interested:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=431431
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Support a KDF equivalent to the Vesta Here
  • jhighfilljhighfill Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    introduce a ship that can heal wile cloaked the trade off would be no battle cloak an weak hull around 23,000 Defensive heals only. uncloaked it would have Strong shields and

    1 ensign tac
    Commander and Lt Commander sci
    Commander engineer skills.

    Consoles 1 tac 5 sci 4Eng slots
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    xantris wrote: »
    No, this is a video game that takes places 30 years after the vesta prototype was built. They just need to worry about releasing Klingon ships instead of deliberately favoring one faction while flipping the other side the bird.

    If that's not financially viable(which I find laughable, modeling and importing these designs is not that expensive, especially for the non-canon Klingon ships), then they need to change the game model so that both sides can use all content.

    I'd personally be embarrassed if this was my company. You don't just tell one subsect of clients "too bad" because you screwed up by dropping the ball from the very beginning, That's so disgustingly low of a business practice that I can't even fathom it.
    Well spoken though I prefer the faction remain seperate.

    Seperate up the games levels that is until endgame when the Iconian puppetmasters are known of as reason why the Borg attack, the Undine strike and all choas is loose. The player through ardiuos and deadly missions has seen the proof of it, informed his superiors of the plot and as a high ranking fleet officer, now fights the enemy alone or alongside allies in the quadrant at his leasuire.

    Or so I would say if STO played anything like that. Way too many holes in the fed and KDF storyline progressions to inform the player of what to expect at endgame.

    Exactly. All the KDF community has really been asking is we be treated like equals, with equal attention and resources devoted to the faction and it's unique content.
    The KDF faction has never had that. It's been neglected and left behind from the start, and the spoiled fedbears mock us for complaining about it.
    Feh. pay the mockery no attention. Do not feed its existance.
    The feds can mock and tease all they want because they sit in a position of importance as the most numerous fans over the rest of us. As much as Cryptic is forced to feed them and quote numbers on us versus them and "the why", the feds have used the same numbers to rub our noses in our fandom. S it happens, they out number us.
    Those whom mock will always act so. Some have even said its thier prefered STO related entertainment when the game is slow. They're just being petty fans.
    Its Cryptics fault why the KDF is not complete yet.
    Now the KDF is well behind on numbers and popularity (due to mismanagement of this game from the start). . .and Cryptic/PWE, in their divine wisdom, have decided to use an idiotic catch-22 argument to justify not putting enough effort into the KDF side of things. At best, we get a knockoff 'counterpart' piece to a new Fed ship or mission. . .at worst, we get nothing while the Feds get more than they can possibly have a need for. All the while, everything that made the KDF unique is slowly being given away to the Feds.
    The idiotic catch-22 of why no support is a good description. WE KDF are fans of the IP. We have money, we just do not ravenously devour every new thingy thrown our way.

    I like the fact we got knock off counter ships most times the feds got a new ship. I like the 1000 day veteran ship and the BortasQu vessels. I like the fact (but not the pricing or the missing ships) we got Fleet vessels. I had hoped they had a KDF Vesta vessel or at least now are thinking of making one.

    We KDF (imo) are not really hurting for vessels to fill roles with in gameplay. what we really need is more Toon and Vessel costume choices, a level one start with a much better Tutorial and those other little things that breathe life to a faction and let a player have fun with thier characters.

    As to what we've lost, it sucks. I knew the consoles would become cross faction eventually as they said as much before they released them ingame. Carriers was a hit we knew was going happen when the first cry went up years ago. Other than that there is not that much deviation in ship layout between the two factions to matter. Now anyway.
    I just know they're gonna eventually give the Feds an option for the battlecloak, and 'counterparts' for the KDF battlecruisers to 'even the odds'.
    The BC, Kahless I hope not.
    The KDF Battle Cruisers match up is already in effect with the new Heavy Escort Carrier, the Vesta and the new time ships - in my opinion.

    If Cryptic wishes to ignore a part of the fanbase then my wallet will be closed, but I do intend to wait a see if they actually continue to ignore us. I don't have to spend any money while I wait.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    misterde3 wrote: »
    Then read
    "Diplomatic Implausibility"
    "The Brave and the Bold" book 2
    and the IKS Gorkon novels

    that should be enough justification for such a ship.

    Heh, the Qang class was *exactly* what sprang to mind when the question of the KDF answer to the Vesta popped up. Like the Vesta, it's a long-range exploration ship, with the caveat that it's meant to conquer what it finds :). And since it's basically a modified Vor'cha, the art assets are already there.

    That said... after another 5 seconds, what would be great is a proper T5.5 Bird of Prey. Take the Vesta's logic and apply it onto a BoP frame - better turn and battle cloak, but weaker shields / hull. The BoP is an iconic Klingon style and really deserves to be somewhere in the top tier of ships.
  • rrincyrrincy Member Posts: 1,023
    edited November 2012
    that'd be a great idea , as much as i love the vesta being in game , they really need to bring a KDF ship out to redress the balance somewhat
    12th Fleet
    Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
    U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I'd gladly take a souped up bird of prey as the kdf vesta.

    A heghta looking hull but almost the size of a raptor... Three versions

    Tac version

    + 1 tac console slot
    +1 forward weapon slot at the loss of one rear slot. (5/2)

    Unique consoles:

    Double bonus to Atk from cloak console. Passive ability

    Science version

    + 1 sci console slot
    No power bonus to weapons, instead power bonus is +10 engine +10 aux

    Unique console:
    electronic warfare console. Gives high bonuses to jam and scramble sensor stats passively. Active ability: holo matrix camouflage ( ship camos as enemy ship type like in that romulan episode of st enterprise)

    Engineering version

    +1 eng console slot
    Cruiser like hull hp but 25% slower speed than other two versions

    Unique console

    Subspace disruptor. A tachyon beam like weapon that disrupts target ship engines and engineering based abilities (triggers timers to max). Engine disruption cuts turn rate in half and sped in half. Lasts 10 seconds.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Yeah pretty much someone else had similar idea I had it was late and I had posted it in the wrong section LOL.

    It seems a lot of people misread my original post though. The idea I had was not some super stated ship but some more of a multi-role ship where its primarily a Heavy Battle Cruiser but given the way the multi vector works except moving ship parts it would could have modes where adjustments are made to where it can work as a semi raptor or carrier depending on what the Captain of the ship needs at a given time.

    I'm just not pleased with how the federation side continually gets more and more ships and nothing is put up to sell for the KDF. If we are only going to get one new ship a year though it has to be something special which is apparent by all the posts on both threads.
  • carl103carl103 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I haven?t bothered to come up with a full description. But size wise I imagine it as a fairly Bulky Raptor.

    Klingon Yoj (Judgment in English), Class Multi-Purpose Attack Craft


    The Yoj class multi-purpose attack craft is the KDF?s attempt to integrate the best elements of Gorn, Nausican, and Orion technology into a a KDF vessel. The design is a Hybrid design combining elements of Raptors and Birds of Prey into one single package. The vessel posses a number different base technologies. Gorn Supplied Sensor module upgrades enhance it?s target finding and acquisition capabilities whilst Orion drive upgrades allow the vessel superior sector speeds, meanwhile the latest in Nausican Cannon mountings have been integrated into the vessel. The Design is also equipped with an enhanced battle cloak and a very flexible bridge officer layout, as well as the newest KDF Isometric Torpedoes. Learning from the B?Rel the ship has an unusually overbuilt Structural Integrity Field Grid, at the expense of the Shield Generator grid. The vessel posses 3 distinct sub-variants, each normally fitted with one additional experimental system from the KDF?s allies. However some captains in particular favour with the High Council have been issued ships fitted with several systems. These captains are invariably graced with additional KDF experimental technology upgrades as well.


    A glowing bit of fluff I should hope. But what does it all mean? The Orion affect gives the ship a passive +50 Drivers coil skill and permanently un-caps sector travel speeds regardless of engine choice. This won?t make you as fast at slipstream speeds as a Vesta, but your still going to be brain bleed inducing fast. The Gorn Sensor upgrades are rather simple. You?ve got Sensor Analysis across all variant by Default. No default Subsystem Targeting though, (but see Variants for a surprise). The Nausicans bring the piece de resistance though. A straight up +20% damage boost to all Single Cannons and Turrets. This raises Single Cannons to the same level as DHC?s. You can still mount Dual Cannons and DHC?s however if you wish. The Enhanced Battle Cloak should be familiar to anyone familiar with the B?Rel. The Isometric Torpedoes is identical in all stats respects to a Plasma torpedo and benefits from all the same skills and abilities in the same way with 2 exceptions. First both the default damage and the burn are Electrical. Secondly, when using Torpedo High Yeild abilities the base damage of the Torpedo is unaffected, however the burn damage Magnitude is increased by 100% per level of ability, (so +100% from Torpedo High yield 1, +200% from Torpedo High yield 2, e.t.c.), and the burn is applied to any target within 1KM of the detonation point. As noted it also packs an unusually strong hull and BoFF layout to complement this. Albeit at the expense of Shields and Lieutenant Commander Skills.

    The rest of the base stats are below:

    Rank Required: Lt.G
    Hull Strength: 41,000
    Shield Modifier: 0.75
    Crew: 250
    Weapons: 4 Fore, 2 Aft
    Device Slots: 3
    Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Science, 1 Lieutenant Universal, 1 Commander Universal
    Base Turn Rate: 17 degrees per second
    Impulse Modifier: 0.17
    Sensor Analysis
    Orion Enhanced Drives
    Nausican Enhanced Light Cannon Mounts
    Can Equip Cannons
    Enhanced Battle Cloak
    Isometric Torpedo Mk XII [Acc] [Dmg]x2



    There are 3 Variants of this Ship. Raider. Battle, and Tactical.


    The Yoj Raider variant is the KDF?s answer to a need for a deep ranger raider for attacking deep into enemy rear echelons and inflicting maximum damage on enemy supply lines and support assets. To aid it in this Endeavour it s equipped with an experimental Gorn Systems Targeting Computer. This allows the vessel to efficiently target enemy weak spots to maximum effect.

    In game terms the Gorn Systems Targeting Computer provides 4 Abilities. Advanced Target Weapons Subsystems, Advanced Target Shields Subsystems, Advanced Target Engines Subsystems, and Advanced Target Auxiliary Subsystems. Each of these is on a 2 minute Cooldown and shares a 15 second Global Cooldown with each other. But otherwise share no Global Cooldowns with any other abilities. On use they grant all weapons fire for the next 10 seconds a buff. The weapons all have a 2.5% chance to disable the named subsystem, and they also all apply a 15 second duration, non-stacking -20 power debuff to the named system.

    Yes you read that right. You basically get a Target subsystems ability set that works with cannons, turrets, and torpedoes, and which may be used with abilities like CSV, or BFAW. The downside is a relatively poor chance of an outright disable, a lost console slot and a limited power drain. The Drain also does not scale with your flow capacitors skills. So resistances aside it?s fixed.

    The Console Layout is as follow:

    Engineering: 4
    Science: 2
    Tactical: 4




    The Yoj Battle variant is intended as the new front line raptor in large Fleet actions and as such is equipped with the latest in Nausican Energy Weapons systems. Dual Continuous Wave Disruptor Beams. This advanced system combines the infamous power leeching abilities of Nausican energy weapons with their high power Beam systems. Unlike normal Power draining capabilities however it does not feed the power to the firing ships own systems, instead the power is fed back into the weapons directly allowing the steadily focused beam to grow in power as it feeds of the enemies own systems.

    I Game terms the Console grants you the ability to fire the Continuous Wave Dual Disruptor Bank once every 5 minutes. This weapon fires a stream of 40 Pulses over 20 seconds. They initially deal low damage and power drain. But each pulse grows in power, at a rate of an additional +100%damage and +100% power drain per pulse, to a maximum of +3900% to both on the 40th Pulse. The affect is boosted by both consoles and Weapons power, but is unaffected by skills. Base damage is 50, and base drain is -1 to all systems. The Beams have a standard 90 degree targeting arc and if the enemy falls out of this arc for any reason or moves outside 10KM the beam will disengage, just like a Tachyon Beam.

    Console Layout:

    Engineering: 4
    Science: 1
    Tactical: 5




    The Yoj Tactical Variant is officially intended for sort range tactical assignments near friendly lines but away from the main fleet where a degree of versatility and independence may be beneficial, but not to the degree of the more independent Raider Variant. Unofficially the variant was commissioned by KDF military Intelligence as a means of providing insertion and extraction for covert ops teams as well as a means to provide more direct intervention should circumstances require it. To this end it is equipped with an Orion Stealth Heavy Frigate attached to the at dorsal section. The design, a scaled down re-work of a long standing Orion favourite stolen from the Suliban two centuries ago, was fitted with an advanced passive sensor masking system and submitted to the KDF as a cheaper alternative to the valuable Birds of Prey being used in rear echelon work. Although ultimately turned down, it was quickly picked up by KDF intelligence, and it was found that the masking system when combined with an Enhanced Battle Cloak produced the most perfect cloak known to exist. Sadly the masking system has proven far less effective on larger designs

    In game terms you get a two minute cooldown ability that launches a Bird of Prey class pet. This pet is not only equipped with an Enhanced Battle Cloak, but may fire any weapons or abilities from under it, (including energy weapons), without ever decloaking as it does so. It is equipped with an Aft Turret, a Forward Dual Disrupter Beam Bank, and Foe and Aft Transphasic Torpedo Launchers. It posses the abilities; Torpedo High Yield 3, Beam Overload 3, and Sensor Scan 3.


    Console Layout:

    Engineering: 5
    Science: 1
    Tactical: 4



    In addition to the above if you equip multiple set pieces you will gain bonuses capabilities. The 2-Set gives you an experimental Masking system Enhanced Battle Cloak. This Allows you to fire Energy Weapons whilst Cloaked. The 3-Set bonus adds Experimental Regenerative Energized Hull Amour. This not only gives you a passive +30 to your Starship Structural Integrity Field Skill, but also passively increases the Duration of all levels of Polarize Hull, Hazard Emitters, and Auxiliary to Structural Integrity Field by 100%.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    We could also just ask for a ToduJ fighter armed with 4x quad cannons and a tricobalt mine in the rear.... +30 defense bonus.

    Schweeeet...
  • suavekssuaveks Member Posts: 1,736 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Umm... I thought there already was a ship even superior to Vesta. It's called Kar'Fi Battle Carrier...

    Good shields, more hull than vesta, one fore weapon slot more, two hangar bays, awesome frigate hangars, can load cannons, has cmdr. sci and lt.cmdr. tac. boff slots and phase shift console that grants it partial immunity. And that's just a standard 9 console ship - I don't even want to think what monster this would be if there was a Fleet version (which I hope there will be someday).

    Although I'll be buying Vesta tomorrow I honestly would prefer it to be more Kar'Fi like, even without sensor analysis and subsystem targeting.

    And if you want something more bulky and even more Engi/Sci oriented for the KDF then Fleet Corsair may be the thing for you.
    PyKDqad.jpg
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