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PvP subforum culture

sophlogimosophlogimo Member Posts: 6,507 Arc User
edited November 2012 in PvP Gameplay
I am not quite sure if it is placed correctly here, if not, please move it appropriately.
[...]
The major concern I have is opening up those players to the "PvP" that goes on in this forum lol. It's like a warzone in here; there is so much rule-breaking going on and players are constantly are being trolled and harassed -- it's really unfortunate that a few individuals are ruining it for the rest of those who like to use this forum and provide constructive (positive or negative), civil feedback. I've been working on a thread that I've been wanting to post in here that comes from the heart as a fellow player, as well as the Community Manager. I'm hoping to have it posted soon. Basically, the trolling and harassing has to stop -- it's not good for the community, and it really doesn't help the cause.
[...]

I think he is right: These things must improve, and I am willing to do what is required for that.

What do you guys all think about this problem?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Considering Cryptic claims PvP playerbase is very minor in this game and less that 1% players visit the forums I think noone would be hurt if these forum would end unmoderated. Because that means that almost noone reads this forum section, aye ?
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • pveheropvehero Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I'd be very careful starting a thread encouraging people to behave nice, as I've seen what can happen to people who do.

    Anyway, PvP is competition, and some "forum-pvp" should be allowed, as long as no serious lines are crossed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pwebranflakespwebranflakes Member Posts: 7,741
    edited November 2012
    ((moving the convo here from the "Vesta Stats" threads was a good idea))

    I'm interested to hear your thoughts after reading everything I posted. Let me repost the full conversation ----v
    Oh I seee. For some reason I thought that there was a group of people already putting the Vesta through its paces. Okay, so there is still room for feedback to influence stats, etc., which makes me a bit more optimistic.

    Now that I have you here, Branflakes, please check out the PvP Boot Camp post. It is right up your alley in terms of Community Development:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=429771

    We need your support to get this thing going. THx.

    There's absolutely some room :)

    As for your Boot Camp post, it's something I read this morning and have been thinking about. I really, really want to help out and support it. I think it could be really fun and I have some great ideas that I'd like to share to add to it, too.

    The major concern I have is opening up those players to the "PvP" that goes on in this forum lol. It's like a warzone in here; there is so much rule-breaking going on and players are constantly are being trolled and harassed -- it's really unfortunate that a few individuals are ruining it for the rest of those who like to use this forum and provide constructive (positive or negative), civil feedback. I've been working on a thread that I've been wanting to post in here that comes from the heart as a fellow player, as well as the Community Manager. I'm hoping to have it posted soon. Basically, the trolling and harassing has to stop -- it's not good for the community, and it really doesn't help the cause.

    Personally, I really enjoy PvPing -- I have played with a few of the best teams out there and always have a great time. They also share feedback and I pass it along often. I also read the threads and posts in this forum and know the feelings of the community towards the current state of PvP. We (the players, the STO team, Cryptic and Perfect World) want it to be a great experience. We've got some ways to go, but if we all work together, I think we can get to a point where PvP is something we'll see more players wanting to participate in. We won't get there overnight, but I hope that the increased Dev involvement in this sub-forum is a sign and a starting point.
    snip

    I'm primarily talking about how some individuals are treating other individuals in this forum. As you can see from the threads that are still available to post in, there are many, many threads that include "negativity" or "hostility" towards changes, additions, design decisions etc. -- after all, this is a feedback forum where all types of feedback are welcome. It's the objectionable and vulgar material/ content, the harassing comments, the name calling, and the flaming and trolling that's the problem. The moment the feedback crosses into those lines, it's not okay.
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    It's really simple. The more you moderate here, the more emotions you rise. For your and Cryptic's sake, it would be better to leave this section unmoderated and visit it just as a fellow pvper, not a mod.

    PvP = emotions, Emotions need to get out, and people release steam on forums.

    Unfortunately, this is not an option :( We want to maintain an environment where players can come to leave feedback and participate in discussion without having to be worried about what I posted above. Unfortunately, players who repeatedly break the rules will not be welcome to participate.

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    There are folks here that can let you know you're being a dumbass without calling you, your mother, your neighbor's cat, and the guy that sells you coffee in the morning one...

    ...then there are the folks that can't.

    I think it's as simple as having more of the former and none of the latter.

    It's an unnecessary distraction at times... and without a way to ignore folks and the PITA it is to report anything - well, most of it's just left there.

    It's not a welcoming environment. I mean, c'mon - it should be somewhat welcoming here... the tears should be on the field of battle. :)
  • fakehilbertfakehilbert Member Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Step 1 to improve the forum culture: Bring back the easy to reach "ignore" button on the forums.
  • pveheropvehero Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Unfortunately, this is not an option :( We want to maintain an environment where players can come to leave feedback and participate in discussion without having to be worried about what I posted above. Unfortunately, players who repeatedly break the rules will not be welcome to participate.

    I know this is borderline to discussing moderation, from me as well as from you, but as you started it... You should really look at who is moderated for what, and in what way. When someone is permanently locked out for something that barely was worth an infraction, word of it gets out. When people realize that you may get locked up even if you try to follow the rules and be nice, they don't see a point to even try to follow rules and be nice. And that can't possibly be good for the forum?
    Step 1 to improve the forum culture: Bring back the easy to reach "ignore" button on the forums.

    ^^this. ignore/report button was nice to have... reporting no is... well, i tried it one day, but gave up after spending half an hour on PWE support site, not understanding anything.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pwebranflakespwebranflakes Member Posts: 7,741
    edited November 2012
    pvehero wrote: »
    I know this is borderline to discussing moderation, from me as well as from you, but as you started it... You should really look at who is moderated for what, and in what way. When someone is permanently locked out for something that barely was worth an infraction, word of it gets out. When people realize that you may get locked up even if you try to follow the rules and be nice, they don't see a point to even try to follow rules and be nice. And that can't possibly be good for the forum?



    ^^this. ignore/report button was nice to have... reporting no is... well, i tried it one day, but gave up after spending half an hour on PWE support site, not understanding anything.

    As the forum rules state, if someone receives an infraction (not a warning) that they feel was not warranted, they can file a support ticket to have someone other than the person who gave the infraction review it. Information on how to file a ticket is in my sig.

    The ignore/ report functionality should be back in the not too distant future. For now, filing a ticket with a link to the post in question is a good way to report something. The same instructions in my sig can be used :)

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=
  • fakehilbertfakehilbert Member Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I tried it once and I couldn't file a ticket. And yes, I did follow the instruction in your signature.
  • pwebranflakespwebranflakes Member Posts: 7,741
    edited November 2012
    I tried it once and I couldn't file a ticket. And yes, I did follow the instruction in your signature.

    There is a known issue that the web team is trying to resolve that affects only some players -- it's where some get the infinite redirect loop. If that's happening, emailing in directly from your account's registered email address is okay too: customerservice@perfectworld.com

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I'm surprised this thread hasn't been closed given the passive-aggressive intent behind the original poster?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • hyprodimushyprodimus Member Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    This thread is Sprinkled with irony.
  • pveheropvehero Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    *Edited: to be on the safe side. ~pvehero
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    There is a known issue that the web team is trying to resolve that affects only some players -- it's where some get the infinite redirect loop. If that's happening, emailing in directly from your account's registered email address is okay too: customerservice@perfectworld.com

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=

    Can I do this if I get the "redirect loop" when filing for a name change request?
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • dant158#3249 dant158 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    What do you guys all think about this problem?

    HTFU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q
  • pveheropvehero Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    dantrainor wrote: »

    awsome.... just... awsome...

    +10char
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • reichwald12reichwald12 Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Branflakes,

    I understand the difficulties that you and your crew are facing and I'm hopeful that great things will be happening down the line.

    If you are exchanging feedback with certain circles in PvP as much as it sounds, then that's great! I think though, that because of its "behind the scenes" nature, people here probably feel left out and ignored.

    I'm not telling you how to moderate by any means, but I feel like if there was more communication in these forums (with better moderation, as you mentioned), the message would get across.

    Perhaps a weekly Dev sticky or something that indicates some ideas being tossed around the office would be a good start. Just moderate the threads that spawn from it to keep things civil, and you'll likely [some] decent feedback.

    What's on your mind? What has the team thought of so far? What kind of feedback do you need?


    I really like this game, and I think it has such great potential for PvP. Looking forward to working with you!
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    So in other words, you want PWE to change their forum rules so that everything can stay as it is down here?

    ...

    Seriously?

    I don't see what it is you're talking about really, the PvP board is both a) very slow (on a good day) and b) very tame by forum standards, if something rankles your cankles on here then I dread to think how you'd fare on most of the non-STO net.

    There aren't even enough posters to say that it has a "culture" anyway. A culture of not posting, maybe!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • pveheropvehero Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    There aren't even enough posters to say that it has a "culture" anyway. A culture of not posting, maybe!

    for some reason... all the good posters have... vanished... without even saying goodbye... :(

    must be some anomaly...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    pvehero wrote: »
    for some reason... all the good posters have... vanished... without even saying goodbye... :(

    must be some anomaly...

    Its like they got a MWO or GW2 drop in a lockbox or something......strange.....
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • pveheropvehero Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    Its like they got a MWO or GW2 drop in a lockbox or something......strange.....

    more like some strange force banised them from our realm... :eek:

    it could always ble Q I guess...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zorena#3961 zorena Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    a) 3 Years of insults from the developers regarding pvp, first of there is the introduction of new said item, it results in being "TESTED Internaly", might or might not be tested on tribble and focus feed back ignored.
    b) launched on Holodeck the new "Tested item" is obviously buggy to anyone that check its property's out.
    c) confirming that it wasn't tested enough or not at all in pvp enviorment

    d) flames on forum people get banned and make new accounts.

    e) new item comes out return to a)
    Noone.
  • xtremenoob1xtremenoob1 Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    ((moving the convo here from the "Vesta Stats" threads was a good idea))

    I'm interested to hear your thoughts after reading everything I posted. Let me repost the full conversation ----v



    There's absolutely some room :)


    As a mostly KDF player, the stats aren't terrible. The issue I have is the complete lack of science ships on our end. More so, the Korath (sp) would be a viable variant however it can't load DHCs and doesn't have a cloak. However it is a KDF ship. That seems a bit silly to me. I was extremely disappointed when a friend sold me one and notices that. That said, the cloak really isn't important, and even the cannons aren't, but for pugging purposes it could be a fun setup to play around with.

    The stats aside, the additional issue I see is the addition of even more pets in PVP. Da-noobs come to mind. They are, simply put, one of the most annoying pets in the game. Siphons are too, but most of the good PVPers don't run them on serious builds. The Da-noobs on the other hand, the argument stems that PH and APO make you immune. However, the number of pets and the number of tractors from even 1 user can be overbearing to ships that can't load APO or would have to give up a valuable team heal for PH.

    It would be nice for the KDF to get some science with similar stats to the feds. The Varanus is a good ship, but it's not really on par with the options feds have.

    That leaves the lockbox ships.

    Orb - great
    korath - also great

    but those ships aren't easily available unless you have the resources to purchase them on the exchange or care to chance a drop from the box. That wouldn't be a huge issue if the drop rate was viable but when players are opening 80-100-120-200+ boxes and not getting a drop, well that's a low ball scam, IMO.




    As for your Boot Camp post, it's something I read this morning and have been thinking about. I really, really want to help out and support it. I think it could be really fun and I have some great ideas that I'd like to share to add to it, too.

    The major concern I have is opening up those players to the "PvP" that goes on in this forum lol. It's like a warzone in here; there is so much rule-breaking going on and players are constantly are being trolled and harassed -- it's really unfortunate that a few individuals are ruining it for the rest of those who like to use this forum and provide constructive (positive or negative), civil feedback. I've been working on a thread that I've been wanting to post in here that comes from the heart as a fellow player, as well as the Community Manager. I'm hoping to have it posted soon. Basically, the trolling and harassing has to stop -- it's not good for the community, and it really doesn't help the cause.

    Personally, I really enjoy PvPing -- I have played with a few of the best teams out there and always have a great time. They also share feedback and I pass it along often. I also read the threads and posts in this forum and know the feelings of the community towards the current state of PvP. We (the players, the STO team, Cryptic and Perfect World) want it to be a great experience. We've got some ways to go, but if we all work together, I think we can get to a point where PvP is something we'll see more players wanting to participate in. We won't get there overnight, but I hope that the increased Dev involvement in this sub-forum is a sign and a starting point.



    I'm primarily talking about how some individuals are treating other individuals in this forum. As you can see from the threads that are still available to post in, there are many, many threads that include "negativity" or "hostility" towards changes, additions, design decisions etc. -- after all, this is a feedback forum where all types of feedback are welcome. It's the objectionable and vulgar material/ content, the harassing comments, the name calling, and the flaming and trolling that's the problem. The moment the feedback crosses into those lines, it's not okay.



    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=



    As far as the boot camp idea, it would be veteran PVPers. I don't see how that would be a bad idea as most of us are actually pretty nice people and have a wealth of knowledge as far as the game mechanics go. More importantly, the more players involved the more knowledge that gets passed around and that should improve the overall game play for everyone... ideally anyway.

    It's never fun going into a pug match and run into a group that is just there for dil or simply unaware of the game mechanics. They get stomped by premades, and for the most part that will always be the case when pugging. But 2 good players shouldn't be able to easily destroy a team of 5, and the only way to resolve that is to get those players informed on the game mechanics. It can't be fixed with new ships, higher cap shields, more hull, more powerful weapons, more resists, more heals, or more p2w consoles. The end result is still the same. The more knowledgeable players will still win the day.

    That's my $.02
    -X-/Pandas - Pheo
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • razellisrazellis Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    pvehero wrote: »
    for some reason... all the good posters have... vanished... without even saying goodbye... :(

    must be some anomaly...

    It is sad but what can you realistically expect?

    STO has a strong IP and is one of the few MMO's in the "space ship warfare" genre but how long can those things support a game that has an unfinished fraction and severe PVP/PVE balance issues?

    Three years is far longer than I would have ever thought possible and I'm glad it's still here despite those faults.

    On Topic: The people on this forum that are most infuriating are the ones that skirt the rules with condescending-passive-aggressive-behavior. I doubt they'll change no matter what anyone says.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    razellis wrote: »
    It is sad but what can you realistically expect?

    STO has a strong IP and is one of the few MMO's in the "space ship warfare" genre but how long can those things support a game that has an unfinished fraction and severe PVP/PVE balance issues?

    Three years is far longer than I would have ever thought possible and I'm glad it's still here despite those faults.

    On Topic: The people on this forum that are most infuriating are the ones that skirt the rules with condescending-passive-aggressive-behavior. I doubt they'll change no matter what anyone says.

    I think he meant those who got perma forum ban...but I might be wrong...
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • wolverine595959wolverine595959 Member Posts: 726
    edited November 2012
    zorandra wrote: »
    a) 3 Years of insults from the developers regarding pvp, first of there is the introduction of new said item, it results in being "TESTED Internaly", might or might not be tested on tribble and focus feed back ignored.
    b) launched on Holodeck the new "Tested item" is obviously buggy to anyone that check its property's out.
    c) confirming that it wasn't tested enough or not at all in pvp enviorment

    d) flames on forum people get banned and make new accounts.

    e) new item comes out return to a)

    Should used basic code :P But I digress. Bran threads like this come out every few months when the real bile and vitriol has come to a nice boiling point. I will be the first to say I haven't played in 2 months and from what I have seen i won't play for a while more. We all have been promised a PvP update but it never materializes. Things keep getting introduced that are OP'd and severely unbalances PvP. So really crypitic can only be blamed for the vitriol and bitterness. The community as whole has been patient even when we have been lied to on numerous occasions. I do have an idea make miltiple PvP queues, one could be no holds barred, all P2W stuff is allowed, another that has maybe a limit to 1 p2w power, then one that is stripped down straight PvP that allows no p2w consoles or powers that would included ships that got innate p2w things like the danube wings etc. This will allow for different strokes for different folks. But I have feeling this will be given token consideration because, well that is the way it is.
    Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
  • pveheropvehero Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    I think he meant those who got perma forum ban...but I might be wrong...

    careful...you never know who listen...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edited November 2012
    This content has been removed.
  • dant158#3249 dant158 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    So in other words, you want PWE to change their forum rules so that everything can stay as it is down here?

    ...

    Seriously?

    What the blithering diddlers are you tal... actually never mind. Just never mind.
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