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PvP Bootcamp: An Attempt toward a Long-Term Solution to the Problem of Empty PvP Ques

gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
edited November 2012 in PvP Gameplay
I would lke to propose a long-term solution to the lack of interest in STO PvP, but I need the support of the PvP community to make it work. I call this solution, "Boot Camp."

In fact, I was inspired by the Sad Pandas recent creation of two training fleets: Sad Panda Cubs (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=268443) and Hax Panda Cubs (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=408711). This was a great idea. Kudos to the Pandas for coming up with it. I think what I have to propose could easily dovetail with what they are doing.

Concept: A regular (monthly?) training session (boot camp) in which players of all levels can come together in small teams (perhaps 3 vs 3 with one "coach") to learn the basics of PvP. The session could be, say, 1 hour in length, with a "sparring" match as the climax. As the coach has the teams run through various drills s/he would give advice and encouragement. Preferably, these teams would be diverse with respect to player careers (i.e., eng, tac, science, etc.)

Philosophy: I would venture to say that intimidation is one of the key issues keeping people from jumping into PvP ques. Apart from personal resolve, the key to breaking through intimidation is through education and a taste of success, both of which are more easily accomplished in a controlled pedagogical setting than in an open PUG match.

Promotion: I think there is potential to promote this event through a number of channels.

1) Because this is not a tournament, in which rules like "no siphon drones, AMS, etc." would be implemented, it is more likely that Branflakes could promote it. It is not beyond the realm of possibility for us to get a front page blog article on STO's website.

2) For those of you who are not in PvP exclusive fleets, this is an opportunity to train up potential players and get them interested in PvP.

3) Some of you know that I write a KDF Blog for Priority One (Warrior's Way), and I would be willing to feature such a project in the blog. And although I cannot promise anything, I would certainly talk with the producers of P1 to see if they could plug this event as well on the weekly podcast. I would also ask the Gates of Stovokor people too, with whom I am in close contact.

Given that PvP will (hopefully) get a boost in Season 8 (6 months away?), now is the time to start building up our ranks. Please leave your feedback, critical or otherwise. If you are interested in collaborating with me on this issue, please indicate as much.
Post edited by gradstudent1 on
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Comments

  • falloutx23falloutx23 Member Posts: 456
    edited October 2012
    Good luck with this. Anything to help new players get into pvp is a good think.
  • falloutx23falloutx23 Member Posts: 456
    edited October 2012
    Also...getting the word out to the as many ppl as possible is gonna be the tipping point, but also the hard part. Getting a dev to help with this would be a giant step in the right direction if you could pull it off. I know there are a line of PvP'ers that gladly give their time and knowledge to help this cause, but without some help from cryptic staff to get the word out, it's very difficult to pull pve'ers in.

    Bran, Bort, any other dev listening, what can we do to make this happen?
  • rudiefix1rudiefix1 Member Posts: 420
    edited October 2012
    A good start would be promoting the OPVP channel, so more people have it visible in their chat box. More like the doff or eliteSTF channels.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    @rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
    @rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
    @rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I applaud the effort, but I have one thing to say about getting more players to PvP...

    rewards!

    As long as we're forced to spend time on other things to get what we want, people will not be inclined to PvP... :(

    I wonder... will there ever be a "PvP reputation" system?

    What would make PvP full of people:
    - Better reward for participation
    - Some reward for performance
    - Some reward for winning
    - adding 3v3 queues
    - Leaderboard (showing best win/loose ratio over last 30 (?) arenas)

    Unfortunately, this is all things only devs can do... It wouldn't even be much work for them, but even a little effort may be too much to ask, it seems....

    Anyway, good luck! :)
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »

    I wonder... will there ever be a "PvP reputation" system?

    What would make PvP full of people:
    - Better reward for participation
    - Some reward for performance
    - Some reward for winning
    - adding 3v3 queues
    - Leaderboard (showing best win/loose ratio over last 30 (?) arenas)

    You forgot NO REWARDS for AFK.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • wolfpack12cwolfpack12c Member Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I've been doing this for the last month with my fleet I hold at least 1 pvp training event a week and it has really helped a lot of players in my fleet with builds and abilities. I honestly think every fleet should hold pvp training events
    -"There is no such thing as an I win button!" "Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I've been doing this for the last month with my fleet I hold at least 1 pvp training event a week and it has really helped a lot of players in my fleet with builds and abilities. I honestly think every fleet should hold pvp training events

    Would you be willing to discuss with me expanding such events to include people outside your fleet, as I have proposed above?

    Good job in doing this in your own fleet. What fleet are you part of? I don't see anything in your signature. Thanks for posting.
  • wolfpack12cwolfpack12c Member Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'm one of the leaders in The Galactic Horde (fed) i don't put a signature because this isn't my main account but yes I would love to expand it so that people outside the fleet could join in. I was hoping to get more people involved in using real pvp tactics and not just doing some cheese move like DPB's tric, pet tractor spam, and drain builds. A lot of not so skilled players in my fleet use those tactics. I try to train my fleet members to more out maneuver and out smart there opponents. If you want just send me a message in game or just keep this thread up and ill respond to anything.
    -"There is no such thing as an I win button!" "Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'm one of the leaders in The Galactic Horde (fed) i don't put a signature because this isn't my main account but yes I would love to expand it so that people outside the fleet could join in. I was hoping to get more people involved in using real pvp tactics and not just doing some cheese move like DPB's tric, pet tractor spam, and drain builds. A lot of not so skilled players in my fleet use those tactics. I try to train my fleet members to more out maneuver and out smart there opponents. If you want just send me a message in game or just keep this thread up and ill respond to anything.

    Thanks, wolfpack12c. Let me see how this thread develops over the next day or so. I am hoping that borticus or Branflakes will pick up on it. Even if these hopes are not realized, I will likely contact you anyway. Thanks again.
  • wolfpack12cwolfpack12c Member Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If I have learned anything over the years of playing this game it's that if you want something done you have to do it your self. It's always fallen on the players to make pvp better I mean that last big update that really effected pvp was for ground combat so I have hope they will do it for space and that will boost the pvp numbers and I really hope players will take the time and learn to pvp the proper way to pvp for the fun of the game not a quick cheese kill for the dil. But yes feel free to contact me any time I'm online and ill get back to you when I can
    -"There is no such thing as an I win button!" "Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    SVR is more then happy to invite people to TS and offer KDF coaches. I ll see what we can come up with, just in-game mail to @havam
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    havam wrote: »
    SVR is more then happy to invite people to TS and offer KDF coaches. I ll see what we can come up with, just in-game mail to @havam

    Excellent! Thanks. I will be compiling a list of interested parties. Expect an in-game email in the next week or so.
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited October 2012
    I like this idea and recieves my blessings. Additional to that my wisdom and knowledge of this games pvp is at the OP disposal, if said boot camps goes live.

    Contact me imgame.
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
  • xtremenoob1xtremenoob1 Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I would be available to help as needed too. I'm sure Sibok would too. We get frequent guests on TS as is asking for advice and teaming with us.

    Our TS is open as well if needed.
    -X-/Pandas - Pheo
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Possibly go over the basics of PvP, so the novice learns a proper foundation to work from?
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I've tried to give out help wherever possible, it's not too difficult since as everyone, to their detriment, likely knows that I love to talk my mouth off. There was a very sweet guy in a Star Cruiser a few weeks ago who admitted he needed advice, so I sat him down... I really hope I'll see him in the queues again.

    If anyone ever has questions big or small or wants advice on where to start, my handle is @shimmerless. Even if I can't give you the help you need I'll almost guaranteed know someone or some fleet I can point you to who can.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    Possibly go over the basics of PvP, so the novice learns a proper foundation to work from?

    Roach: This is precisely what I am hoping to accomplish with this boot camp idea. Let's hope we can gather enough support for it.
  • spacepenguin121spacepenguin121 Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Sounds like a good idea and hopefully it works out. I'm up for helping out too if needed, just contact me in game @spacepenguin121.
    _________________________
    TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
    Svarog | Veles | et al.
  • paxottomanpaxottoman Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    INTERNATIONALPVP.TYPEFRAG.COM:62245

    Turkish RP Heroes & International PvP TS channel for all those interested in learning stuff.

    Thanks for the post and the idea.

    -@PaxOttomana
    Turkish RP Heroes
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gregkanegregkane Member Posts: 278 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    yea i am def interested in this sign me up! greg@gregkane in game
  • pavihanpavihan Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    i would be interested in this i am an ok pvper but i could improve my skill lvl alot

    in game i am @roachinsd
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited October 2012
    I wonder what people can teach me....
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I wouldn't mind getting solid advice on the hows and whys of putting together a PvP build that doesn't include stuff like "if you don't have the SuperOmegaHonorMACOGuard set, you're wasting your time".

    Ok, that was an exaggeration. But I want to understand how to put together a good PvP build with what I have and how to adapt my tactics accordingly. Not sure anything but experience can teach all that. People post builds all day long and I can't claim I completely understand why they're good or why they're not.

    Being ex-military, the term "Bootcamp" doesn't raise fond memories or reassure my fears about intimidation ;)

    But a reasonably friendly environment where we can call time-out and ask questions... I would welcome that.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • starcommando101starcommando101 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    I applaud the effort, but I have one thing to say about getting more players to PvP...

    rewards!

    As long as we're forced to spend time on other things to get what we want, people will not be inclined to PvP... :(

    I love your enthusiasm.
    You are taking that next step to get more people but as the above has stated, Rewards.

    This is something only the Devs can do. People need an incentive, a reason. 20k EC a match isn't efficient enough (Well to be honest, if they don't nerf the Rewards for PvP Dailies with Dilithium then maybe...).

    The Devs can make those Dev Blogs to get peoples attention. Bulletins to alert more people in game.

    I just have the feeling the Devs are waiting for something, and my gosh are they patient...
    The Average PvP player
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    1) Teamwork and timing is #1
    2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
    3) You are going to die, just get back up
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bluegeek wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind getting solid advice on the hows and whys of putting together a PvP build that doesn't include stuff like "if you don't have the SuperOmegaHonorMACOGuard set, you're wasting your time".

    Ok, that was an exaggeration. But I want to understand how to put together a good PvP build with what I have and how to adapt my tactics accordingly. Not sure anything but experience can teach all that. People post builds all day long and I can't claim I completely understand why they're good or why they're not.

    Being ex-military, the term "Bootcamp" doesn't raise fond memories or reassure my fears about intimidation ;)

    But a reasonably friendly environment where we can call time-out and ask questions... I would welcome that.

    a lot of people struggling in pvp need to get over themselves and fundamentally change what they are doing and what they equip. so many are doing it wrong so severely that they will have to change everything to complete. don't blame us, that has everything to do with the power creep making the level of entry so much higher.

    the biggest part of pvp is a players own skill at managing their powers and positioning their ships. all the help threads in the world wont be able to clearly teach that as well as something like this will, i hope this works out. in the top link in my sig, theres the latest version of the local cruiser and sci help thread, to include all in 1 now. its just getting started still but the first builds i have added so far are very simple and cheap to put together builds that should be able to tank very well and be a good platform for learning.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bluegeek wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind getting solid advice on the hows and whys of putting together a PvP build that doesn't include stuff like "if you don't have the SuperOmegaHonorMACOGuard set, you're wasting your time".

    Ok, that was an exaggeration. But I want to understand how to put together a good PvP build with what I have and how to adapt my tactics accordingly. Not sure anything but experience can teach all that. People post builds all day long and I can't claim I completely understand why they're good or why they're not.

    Being ex-military, the term "Bootcamp" doesn't raise fond memories or reassure my fears about intimidation ;)

    But a reasonably friendly environment where we can call time-out and ask questions... I would welcome that.

    A good primer to learning how to start thinking the game is Husanak's escort thread.

    It has some high-level stuff in there that gets you thinking about the game in the way most PvPers do. If you really want to elevate your game, I'd suggest you read it. It's linked in my siglink.

    Even though it's focused on Escorts, the information can be applied to your general piloting as well.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fakehilbertfakehilbert Member Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bluegeek wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind getting solid advice on the hows and whys of putting together a PvP build that doesn't include stuff like "if you don't have the SuperOmegaHonorMACOGuard set, you're wasting your time".
    The only gear that really makes a big difference is the retro borg gear. And if you are not patient enough to play 5 STFs to earn enough EDC to get engine+deflector, you are probably not patient enough to learn about pvp mechanics.

    Basically all the builds you fnd on the forums are essentially about BO setups. Gear advice is only given for those players who have absolutely no idea where to start.
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bluegeek wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind getting solid advice on the hows and whys of putting together a PvP build that doesn't include stuff like "if you don't have the SuperOmegaHonorMACOGuard set, you're wasting your time".

    Ok, that was an exaggeration. But I want to understand how to put together a good PvP build with what I have and how to adapt my tactics accordingly. Not sure anything but experience can teach all that. People post builds all day long and I can't claim I completely understand why they're good or why they're not.

    Being ex-military, the term "Bootcamp" doesn't raise fond memories or reassure my fears about intimidation ;)

    But a reasonably friendly environment where we can call time-out and ask questions... I would welcome that.

    Community Moderator/bluegeek: I am so glad this got your attention and that you are interested as a player!

    Please do us a favor, if possible, and sticky this post (if you have the authority) and make sure B-flakes and borticus know about it. Now that we have support from the PvP community (thank you all!) we need a strong advertising outlet and it would really help if B-Flakes could support us in this, perhaps even giving us a STO-website blog for advertisement. I would really appreciate your doing this and it would help the cause go forward. Thanks again.

    p.s.: I hope it will be a more fun-loving experience than your experience with "real" boot camp.=)
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    bluegeek wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind getting solid advice on the hows and whys of putting together a PvP build that doesn't include stuff like "if you don't have the SuperOmegaHonorMACOGuard set, you're wasting your time".

    Ok, that was an exaggeration. But I want to understand how to put together a good PvP build with what I have and how to adapt my tactics accordingly. Not sure anything but experience can teach all that. People post builds all day long and I can't claim I completely understand why they're good or why they're not.

    Being ex-military, the term "Bootcamp" doesn't raise fond memories or reassure my fears about intimidation ;)

    But a reasonably friendly environment where we can call time-out and ask questions... I would welcome that.

    You're absolutely right that only experience will really teach you the ins and outs of playing. In STO gear isn't really that big a deal (I still love talking about it though), what fakehilbert said about your bridge officer layout being key is completely on the ball. To start playing well you also need a good breadth of knowledge, most importantly about those bridge officer powers and when you should or shouldn't use them.

    The first step to getting good or playing competitive PvP in any game is to clear out your head of any preconceptions and accept that you're going to lose, that not all (or even a majority) of your ideas'll work, that you need the knowledge concurrently gifted by that experience to improve your game. You will fall before you can crawl and crawl before you can walk; this is just the way things are, not everyone has skin thick enough to accept that and it's why PvP can be rough and unpopular.

    Anyway... with STO there's a wealth of material and a channel with people who'll be glad to help if it means getting another face into the queues.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • bobtheyakbobtheyak Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    OPvP is the best place to set up a training camp, but for those that don't want to dedicate a large chunk of their play time to tedious practice, feel free to message me in-game if you want help with any of the basics. There are no stupid questions :)
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