test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Defiant as fighter for Atrox

rubberduckconvyrubberduckconvy Member Posts: 1 Arc User
edited November 2012 in Federation Discussion
Hey Cryptic Way Don't you make a Defiant Class Fighter for the Atrox. To match Kar'Fi Adv Freighter
Post edited by rubberduckconvy on
«1

Comments

  • kasandarokasandaro Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    ...more to match that the Vo'Quv gets BoPs. Neither the S'Kul or Fer'Jai are playable.

    But then Fed escort =/= KDF raider. Small as the Defiant is, it's still larger than the biggest BoP, non?

    (also an obligatory troll-detecting head-tilt, but let's play the question straight.)
  • tobar26thtobar26th Member Posts: 799 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kasandaro wrote: »
    ...more to match that the Vo'Quv gets BoPs. Neither the S'Kul or Fer'Jai are playable.

    But then Fed escort =/= KDF raider. Small as the Defiant is, it's still larger than the biggest BoP, non?

    (also an obligatory troll-detecting head-tilt, but let's play the question straight.)

    Meh it's a regular enough request, I think it's perhaps misleading, the BoPs in the KDF carriers are closer in size to the Danube Class runabouts. They just don't look that size in game...
  • squishkinsquishkin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    tobar26th wrote: »
    Meh it's a regular enough request, I think it's perhaps misleading, the BoPs in the KDF carriers are closer in size to the Danube Class runabouts. They just don't look that size in game...

    What about the Aquarius? It's smaller than the Defiant, isn't it?
  • razellisrazellis Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    squishkin wrote: »
    What about the Aquarius? It's smaller than the Defiant, isn't it?

    I've supported the idea of Aquarius (reskined bird of prey pet) and Oberth(Sci focused pet equivalent to Kar'Fi Freighter) for a while now. Most people I've talked to say they are against this idea and pets in general. Personally I think it's because a fair chunk of the player base doesn't want Fed's to have pets with Lt.cmdr powers.
  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Lack of a Frigate pet makes Federation carriers distinctly substandard compared to the KDF carriers, but I'm not sure that's a discrepancy that should be remedied. Using the BoP pets is, I think, a big draw of flying a Vo'quv- it makes you feel like you're commander of a little battle group. It's something special.
  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If the ships were scaled accurately the Defiant would only be slightly larger than the Aquarius, but still considerably larger than a Danube Shuttle or Peregrine Fighter. It's my understanding that the Defiant is something of a destroyer class of ship, a little too big to be used as fighter for a Carrier unless it's a really big damn carrier. As a fighter the Defiant would be over powered, so wings of multiple Defiants would have to have individual ships nerfed to fighter level powers or wings reduced to having a single Defiant flying around at a time.
    If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
    Oh Hell NO to ARC
  • momawmomaw Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Nah, it should be the Aquarius. Birds of Prey already exist on the KDF side as special cruiser pets (like Aquarius) and as playable ships (like Aquarius). The only difference is BOPs can be had on carriers and Aquarius can't.

    I also like the idea of giving the Federation a "support pet", a frigate sized ship with mediocre firepower that uses heals and extend shields on allies. It would be more Feddish than warships.

    SOMETHING needs to change though; Birds of Prey bring a lot more to the table than fighters do, for the Vo'quv, and Federation heavy carriers are left in the dust in terms of firepower without having a corresponding strength in some area. Several Fed pets have unusual abilities, but none of them can compete with the raw firepower of a quartet of B'rolths.

    And the people that hate carriers will hate carriers no matter what pets they have, so these people can and should be ignored.
  • squishkinsquishkin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    momaw wrote: »
    Nah, it should be the Aquarius. Birds of Prey already exist on the KDF side as special cruiser pets (like Aquarius) and as playable ships (like Aquarius). The only difference is BOPs can be had on carriers and Aquarius can't.
    Indeed. Plus, the Aquarius is already a parasite craft and a playable ship. There's nothing particularly absurd about that.
    I also like the idea of giving the Federation a "support pet", a frigate sized ship with mediocre firepower that uses heals and extend shields on allies. It would be more Feddish than warships.
    I kind of like this, but the only problem I have is that it would be OP unless the frigates had reasonable cooldowns on their heals, but then you'd worry about people simply despawning and respawning them, possibly. I think you would have to equip them with their own powers, not simply basic powers carted over.
    SOMETHING needs to change though; Birds of Prey bring a lot more to the table than fighters do, for the Vo'quv, and Federation heavy carriers are left in the dust in terms of firepower without having a corresponding strength in some area. Several Fed pets have unusual abilities, but none of them can compete with the raw firepower of a quartet of B'rolths.
    True, but it doesn't have to be an exact carbon copy.

    Perhaps the solution is something like, say, Voyager's Aeroshuttle.

    Hangar- Aeroshuttle Frigate
    Cooldown, 1:20
    Aeroshuttle Gear:
    Phaser Beam Array
    Tachyon Beam I
    Work Bee Hull Repair Beam
    Transfer Shield Strength I

    Advanced Aeroshuttle Frigate
    Cooldown: 1:20
    Aeroshuttle Gear:
    Antiproton Beam Array
    Chroniton Torpedo Launcher
    Tachyon Beam II
    Work Bee Hull Repair Beam
    Transfer Shield Strength II

    Something like that, perhaps?
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited October 2012
    http://www.phan.org/sto/pics/KlingonShipChart.jpg

    From the Size Comparison thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=219383

    Tactical Escort is 120m in canon, 150m in game.

    B'rel BoP is 110m in canon, 150m in game.


    I don't see why this couldn't work.
  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Heh. First the Feddies steal the KDF carrier class and get their Danubes and whatnot, along with an escort carrier that outmaneuvers the 'flight deck carriers' of the KDF. Now they want a 'frigate pet' to 'even the odds'. Lets just keep defanging the KDF, one feature at a time. After all, we're the 'dirty, evil Klingons', we don't get to have any advantages over the 'good guys'.

    You want a frigate pet? USE A KDF TOON. Stop stealing everything the KDF has.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • dlmysticdlmystic Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    most of our hangers are useless IMHO. I play both sides. To add a frigate it would need to be setup similar to the klingon frigates. so:
    dual cannon
    turret
    torpedo
    High yield or torp spread
    cannon rapid fire
    mines or a special that is effective.(no battle cloak so maybe emite gas)
  • razellisrazellis Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    squishkin wrote: »
    I kind of like this, but the only problem I have is that it would be OP unless the frigates had reasonable cooldowns on their heals, but then you'd worry about people simply despawning and respawning them, possibly. I think you would have to equip them with their own powers, not simply basic powers carted over.


    True, but it doesn't have to be an exact carbon copy.

    Perhaps the solution is something like, say, Voyager's Aeroshuttle.

    Hangar- Aeroshuttle Frigate
    Cooldown, 1:20
    Aeroshuttle Gear:
    Phaser Beam Array
    Tachyon Beam I
    Work Bee Hull Repair Beam
    Transfer Shield Strength I

    Advanced Aeroshuttle Frigate
    Cooldown: 1:20
    Aeroshuttle Gear:
    Antiproton Beam Array
    Chroniton Torpedo Launcher
    Tachyon Beam II
    Work Bee Hull Repair Beam
    Transfer Shield Strength II

    Something like that, perhaps?
    I don't care for tachyon beam and think beam overload would be a better choice there but the rest of that looks pretty solid. The problem with balance in this argument is the KDF advanced frigates launch tricobalt mines and high yield devices. While the DPS is TRIBBLE on them the spike and AOE damage of four frigates is capable of wiping out fleets of Fed pets and the occasional wounded/non-optimized players.
  • squishkinsquishkin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    razellis wrote: »
    I don't care for tachyon beam and think beam overload would be a better choice there but the rest of that looks pretty solid. The problem with balance in this argument is the KDF advanced frigates launch tricobalt mines and high yield devices. While the DPS is TRIBBLE on them the spike and AOE damage of four frigates is capable of wiping out fleets of Fed pets and the occasional wounded/non-optimized players.

    Could give them Subnucleonic beam instead of Tachyon Beam. :D

    I get what you're saying regarding the KDF frigates, but I was going with the idea of the Fed frigates being science/support based. Giving them tons of damage dealing doesn't really make sense in that role.

    Alternatively, what about the standard one getting charged particle burst instead of tachyon beam and the advanced one getting CPB and Subnuke?
  • razellisrazellis Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    squishkin wrote: »
    Could give them Subnucleonic beam instead of Tachyon Beam. :D

    I get what you're saying regarding the KDF frigates, but I was going with the idea of the Fed frigates being science/support based. Giving them tons of damage dealing doesn't really make sense in that role.

    Alternatively, what about the standard one getting charged particle burst instead of tachyon beam and the advanced one getting CPB and Subnuke?

    LoL. Careful what you say or the Subnuke pet could be on its way, on the bright side the klink's would never ***** about runabouts again.

    I was just saying that the heals/buffs that would be equivalent to tricobalt devices would have to be well over the top. More in line with the sci captain abilities than the current BOFF powers.

    Powers like Feedback pulse, tractor beam repulsors, charged particle burst and photonic shock-wave could all feel that offensive power slot with various degrees of success. We've already got a tachyon beam pet and tachyon beam is a very resisted power.
  • squishkinsquishkin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    razellis wrote: »
    LoL. Careful what you say or the Subnuke pet could be on its way, on the bright side the klink's would never ***** about runabouts again.

    I was just saying that the heals/buffs that would be equivalent to tricobalt devices would have to be well over the top. More in line with the sci captain abilities than the current BOFF powers.

    Powers like Feedback pulse, tractor beam repulsors, charged particle burst and photonic shock-wave could all feel that offensive power slot with various degrees of success. We've already got a tachyon beam pet and tachyon beam is a very resisted power.

    The only issue I have is that TBR is a very difficult skill to use effectively, and I wouldn't trust a frigate to use it at all properly. It'd be a disaster. Similarly, I'd be worried about giving them Grav Well or Tyken's Rift.

    Feedback pulse, perhaps. Charged Particle Burst, definitely. Photonic shockwave, alright. Scattering field as well, perhaps? Alternatively, you don't have to give it solely science powers; how about Aceton Beam? The damage is mediocre but the energy weapons debuff could be useful.

    I feel like you want a mix of offensive and defensive buffs/debuffs so that if you use the frigates in 'attack' mode, they'll go and use their debuffs on your target, and if you use them in escort mode they'll use their buffs on you.

    Offensive:
    Charged Particle Burst
    Photonic Shockwave
    Subnucleonic Beam
    Feedback Pulse
    Aceton Beam
    Scramble Sensors
    Jam Targeting Sensors

    Defensive:
    Transfer Shield Strength
    Extend Shields
    Scattering Field
    Engineering Team
    Science Team
    Work Bee Hull Repair Beam

    Maybe Charged Particle Burst and Aceton Beam combined with Engineering Team and Transfer Shield Strength?
  • age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I don't agree with this as the Defiant is a much bigger ship as to why it is parked ouside of DS9.You have got other figter ships to choose from use them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
    USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
    Star Trek Gamers
  • squishkinsquishkin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    age03 wrote: »
    I don't agree with this as the Defiant is a much bigger ship as to why it is parked ouside of DS9.You have got other figter ships to choose from use them.

    You know the birds of prey parked outside DS9 too, right?
  • razellisrazellis Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    squishkin wrote: »
    [*]I feel like you want a mix of offensive and defensive buffs/debuffs so that if you use the frigates in 'attack' mode, they'll go and use their debuffs on your target, and if you use them in escort mode they'll use their buffs on you.

    [*]Offensive:
    [/LIST]
    Charged Particle Burst
    Photonic Shockwave
    Subnucleonic Beam
    Feedback Pulse
    Aceton Beam
    Scramble Sensors
    Jam Targeting Sensors

    Defensive:
    Transfer Shield Strength
    Extend Shields
    Scattering Field
    Engineering Team
    Science Team
    Work Bee Hull Repair Beam

    Maybe Charged Particle Burst and Aceton Beam combined with Engineering Team and Transfer Shield Strength?

    That does sound like an awesome support pet.

    On the list of possible offensive powers scramble sensors is VERY buggy and would make PVP hellish, SubNuke would be far too powerful.
  • squishkinsquishkin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    razellis wrote: »
    That does sound like an awesome support pet.

    On the list of possible offensive powers scramble sensors is VERY buggy and would make PVP hellish, SubNuke would be far too powerful.

    Yeah, I'm not really a big sci captain so I'm not hugely familiar with the science skills. Hmm...


    Hangar- Aeroshuttle Support Craft
    Cooldown, 1:20
    Aeroshuttle Gear:
    Phaser Beam Array
    Micro-Photon Torpedo Launcher
    Charged Particle Burst I
    Transfer Shield Strength I

    Hangar- Advanced Aeroshuttle Support Craft
    Cooldown: 1:20
    Aeroshuttle Gear:
    Antiproton Beam Array
    Chroniton Torpedo Launcher
    Charged Particle Burst I
    Aceton Beam II
    Engineering Team I
    Transfer Shield Strength II

    Something like that, then, perhaps? If you're going to launch a new Fed science carrier or cruiser/science flight deck carrier, make those the default pets and make them available to all Fed full carriers (because, AFAIK, half-carriers can't carry frigates...probably properly, in my opinion).

    It really wouldn't make them a carbon copy of the Klingon frigates at all. They'd be similar, but distinctively different.
  • age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    squishkin wrote: »
    You know the birds of prey parked outside DS9 too, right?

    Yeah and the PoB shoudn't be fighter ship either Orions have the best.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
    USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
    Star Trek Gamers
  • wearenottheborgwearenottheborg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    if you had defiant class fighters then you would pretty much have a small fleet. if you've actually watched DS9 then you'll know that even though the defiant is a small ship, it's still much bigger than a fighter. plus it would make the game far too easy. defiant class ship is a beast!
  • squishkinsquishkin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    if you had defiant class fighters then you would pretty much have a small fleet. if you've actually watched DS9 then you'll know that even though the defiant is a small ship, it's still much bigger than a fighter. plus it would make the game far too easy. defiant class ship is a beast!

    The point is that it would obviously not be exactly the same specs as a player defiant. Just like the Klingon BOP carrier pets are not equivalent to player ships.
  • age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    squishkin wrote: »
    The point is that it would obviously not be exactly the same specs as a player defiant. Just like the Klingon BOP carrier pets are not equivalent to player ships.

    Then it isn't a Defiant or BoP.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
    USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
    Star Trek Gamers
  • edited November 2012
    This content has been removed.
  • squishkinsquishkin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Crew size? a B'rel (SHIP version) has a crew of 30 or less, depending on damage (no more than 30). Puts it more on scale with a runabout than a full on escort such as the Defiant class.
    A runabout has a crew of two, and the Defiant has a crew of 50. So, based on your logic, the B'rel is actually much closer to the Defiant than to a runabout.

    In truth, they're also used in much the same way. How often did Gowron's BOP run around with the Defiant as essentially equivalent ships? Same size, same classification, same use as a hit-and-run raider, whereas the Runabout was much more like a shuttlecraft.
    I just don't see either nerfing the Defiant's NPC brethren FURTHER to balance them against OTHER PETS, nor do I see it as being all that acceptable to put full-blown, GOOD Escorts in a hangar bay.
    You do realize that they would create a separate NPC carrier pet for a Defiant carrier pet, right? They wouldn't just slap in the regular NPC defiant!
  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I don't care what ship class it is, I could really use a frigate. I miss my Fer'Jai.
    I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
    kimmym_5664.jpg
    Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
  • erkyss2erkyss2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    This post us just funny.. U feds guys wanna new pets that are eq. to BoP`s? really? Well no can do my peeps!!! And here is why: in past few monts FED`s are geting new ships ONE AFTER THE ANOTHER, and KDF........ yes, a huge middle finger frome PW and CRYPTIC. Also u are now getting a new sci ship, with a !!!HANGAR BAY!!!and u want MORE? Ok, just stop right there bcs this your requests are just stupid. Every time when new FED ONLY ship comes out KDF is b***g, and with full rights on it bcs lets just face it, when did KDF got new ship last time....????:mad:
  • tlamstriketlamstrike Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Well first off while I would like to see a Federation heavy carrier pet, I would not like to see a carbon copy of the KDF's B'rels and Far'jai frigates. The Federation one should have a distinctive defensive flavor to the KDF's offensive flavor.

    The Raven type would be a good start. Perhaps as a heavy engineering craft. It would be equipped with shield extends and hazard emitters, and be armed with some kind of point defense phaser and micro-torpedoes.

    Maybe have a science heavy craft which could be based on the Maquis raider with tacyon beams and siphons, it would be armed with dual phaser banks and torpedoes.
    My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug. :D
  • razellisrazellis Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    tlamstrike wrote: »

    The Raven type would be a good start. Perhaps as a heavy engineering craft. It would be equipped with shield extends and hazard emitters, and be armed with some kind of point defense phaser and micro-torpedoes.

    I've never heard someone suggest an engineering style pet but I can't help but admit it sounds like the Feds. A pet with EPTS, Engineering team and Extend shields 1 could be pretty decent. I don't know what kind of offesive powers would make sense besides beam overload or AP:Beta.
  • boweninugamiboweninugami Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    The Feds do have a Engineering Pet. The D'ykr Vulcan sci ship has a smaller ship that detaches from it and uses Aux to SIF on you or a target. It'd be nothing to add in a more Feddie style version of it for carriers. Which works a lot better than a Defiant or some other combat frigate. Give it some decent hull but crappy weapons and there you go.
Sign In or Register to comment.