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The KDF needs "Support Vessels" in Season 8

burstdragon323burstdragon323 Member Posts: 853 Arc User
edited October 2012 in Klingon Discussion
There are no Support Vessels for each rank for the KDF that can be acquired via free tokens. The only ones are C-Store Ships, and they have very defensive BOff layouts. We need ships for our SCI Captains that are more offensively oriented.

Thoughts?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • sovereign256sovereign256 Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    BoP's have all-univeral boff slots, you can set those up to be support vessels. At brigadier general, you get the Vo'quv. I wouldn't say that there aren't "free" support vessels. The Vo'quv has a lieutenant commander tactical slot, you can get plenty of damage from that.
  • andoriansrusandoriansrus Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I believe you are missing the point of the OP, the BoP is NOT a science ship its an anyone ship.... we have dedicated engineer cruisers and Tactical Escorts on the KDF side but not a single TRULY dedicated science ship until you get to the Vo'quv or the Varanus... and those are both tier 4 or 5 ships I cant remember.... the KDF needs dedicated science ships that do not require a c-store/z-store purchase to get...for all of the tiers.....

    but with the way the Dastahl and Cryptic have been treating the KDF... to Quote roach "any day I expect Beads, Whiskey and Polio infected Blankets for the KDF"
    Major Xi'Zzin
    I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
    Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
    I have never trusted humans, and I never will
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    *sigh*

    I tried to explain that issue not too long ago here:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=374791

    I tried to be as thorough as possible and I also tried to give this new type of ship its own term and gameplay that would fit the KDF as best as I could think of.
    The result is always the same, it's either ignored completely or the response is "shut up and use the BoP", even when I asked for a more complex feedback than that...not to mention my somewhat long explanation why the BoP is not suited for this (lack of Sci consoles, lack of Aux Power)
    Just like it was done in this thread.
  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    misterde3 wrote: »
    *sigh*

    I tried to explain that issue not too long ago here:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=374791

    I tried to be as thorough as possible and I also tried to give this new type of ship its own term and gameplay that would fit the KDF as best as I could think of.
    The result is always the same, it's either ignored completely or the response is "shut up and use the BoP", even when I asked for a more complex feedback than that...not to mention my somewhat long explanation why the BoP is not suited for this (lack of Sci consoles, lack of Aux Power)
    Just like it was done in this thread.

    Yeah, the BoP is merely an in-between solution that doesn't do as well as full-fledged sci ships. It doesn't have the innate AUX boost or whatever other bonuses a sci ship might get for sci powers, and it doesn't have subsystem targeting built in. About the best you get is the EBC on the B'rel Retrofit, which allows you to use the sci skills, mines, and torpedoes from cloak. Valuable, but still a limited, tricky option.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Just to be clear, I am not against KDF "Science Vessels".

    I do believe that the game does not need a Klingon Science Vessel, if you get the distinction.

    I'd love to see more Gorn and Orion themed vessels, and I think they ought to be available at every Tier. I won't go so far as to say they should be free, but certainly not $20 a pop for lower-Tier vessels.

    I think the KDF should get more hybridized ships, along similar lines as the Armitage in that they have blended capabilities. Some of which ought to be distinctly Klingon in appearance and in nature.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
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  • tudenomtudenom Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    A Nausican version of the Armitage but one more science leaning (Lt Com Sci) would be awesome. It would be nice if a Nausican character could use Nausican siphon drones and back it up with a meaningful science ability.

    Oh yeah, and it should have a Domjot table too.
  • andoriansrusandoriansrus Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    for those that say suck it up and use the BoP on your science character

    the BoP is a VERY poor excuse for a ship for a science captain to use... lack of sci consoles for one and lack of subsystem targeting and any other sci buffs a "fed" sci ship gets, there is just simply NOT a ship on the KDF side that can take the place of a sci ship and I for one agree that there needs to be science ships available at all tiers on the KDF side.... and why not its not like the feds do not already have sci ships and approximately 70% of the cool KDF toys anyway, what could adding a few purpose built sci ships to the KDF hurt... nothing it would "gasp" give the KDF a Science ship...

    but wait only the feds have science ships right ???

    and my rebuttal to that all I have to say is FED Carriers...
    Major Xi'Zzin
    I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
    Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
    I have never trusted humans, and I never will
  • aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    We have the Phalanx at tier 3, the Draguas at tier 4, and the Varanus at tier 5. Unfortunately, they make us pay for each one of them.

    The greater problem, though, is that there aren't any fleet versions of the Varanus; this needs to be fixed, as the fleet and lockbox ships are the new end-game ships, and the Varanus just isn't up to par anymore.
  • maddog0000doommaddog0000doom Member Posts: 1,017 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    KDF is lacking ships full stop.

    doesnt help fed get one after the other and we are left hoping that after 5-6 fed ships we will get one.

    there is no excuse for it just pure bloody lazyness
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tudenomtudenom Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'd be happy even if they took a lower tier gorn science ship and levelled it up to a tier 5 fleet ship.

    I fly a sci bop but it's still not a science vessel, it's a basically a specialized escort that has some science powers to assist its hit and run profile.

    That being said, I still think it's a better science platform than a dedicated science vessel for probe duty and assimilated BOP busting, but it can't do anything else. A true science vessel can lay the nerf bat on a cube, snare groups of smaller vessels for allies to bust up, and keep battered escorts in the fight all at the same time.
  • tudenomtudenom Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Actually when I think about it I don't think we're ever going to get free science vessels and it all has to do with the feel of the factions.

    Each faction has an emphasis on something, for the Klingon's it's tac/eng heavy: outmaneuver and hit hard, have enough staying power to finish off your foe. The Klingons are science light, so if you want heavy science you're going to have to pay for it (paying real money keeps the number of pure science ships low, thus maintaining the feel of the faction).

    I bet that Cryptic always planned to have the Romulans as a third faction and they were going to be science heavy, probably with a tactical secondary. Proper pre positioning while cloaked combined with snaring, nerfing, and a first strike would probably be their role. They would be engineering light, so they don't have the staying power of the klingons, but they can keep their opponent nerfed for long enough to win the day.

    The Feds were probably (as typical for humans in computer games) going to be the baseline, with no real specialty, but no weaknesses. They would have flexibility, but not mastery. Feds don't get a free carrier, they have to buy one with real money, and Feds don't get access to BOP's at all. Feds shouldn't get access to proposed Romulan goodies either, unless they're willing to pay for it with real money.

    The problem is things went sideways right away. There is no Romulan faction, so the third side of the trinagle is completely missing, and people have noticed that there are big holes in the ship line ups of the two factions. The two factions don't give all the options that people want to play, so in order to keep some people happy in the short term they released band aid solutions (almost entirely to the feds) which has made a real mess of things. They're trying to make two factions do a three faction job and it's not working. I have no idea what they're going to do when they bring in the Romulans (if they ever do) I can only imagine a lot of rebalancing will have to be done.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    KDF sci ship with recon sci vessel layout and cloak would be nice.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • intrepid74656intrepid74656 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    tudenom wrote: »
    Actually when I think about it I don't think we're ever going to get free science vessels and it all has to do with the feel of the factions.

    Each faction has an emphasis on something, for the Klingon's it's tac/eng heavy: outmaneuver and hit hard, have enough staying power to finish off your foe.
    Did you ever play in an Armitage? Thing is 98% more tac then any Klingon cruiser or escort.
    tudenom wrote: »
    The Feds were probably (as typical for humans in computer games) going to be the baseline, with no real specialty, but no weaknesses. They would have flexibility, but not mastery. Feds don't get a free carrier, they have to buy one with real money, and Feds don't get access to BOP's at all. Feds shouldn't get access to proposed Romulan goodies either, unless they're willing to pay for it with real money.
    Try a Fleet Defiant with cloak, atleast 1 RCS console and 5 same energy type tac consoles. You'll be better then a BoP!
    tudenom wrote: »
    The problem is things went sideways right away. There is no Romulan faction, so the third side of the trinagle is completely missing, and people have noticed that there are big holes in the ship line ups of the two factions. The two factions don't give all the options that people want to play, so in order to keep some people happy in the short term they released band aid solutions (almost entirely to the feds) which has made a real mess of things. They're trying to make two factions do a three faction job and it's not working. I have no idea what they're going to do when they bring in the Romulans (if they ever do) I can only imagine a lot of rebalancing will have to be done.

    They should have fixed KDF first before releasing Romulans. That way the hole would be less obvious across factions and only to professions (tac, eng or sci). And the only noteworthy difference there would be KDF Sci vessels/captains, as they have nearly no options to play their hand.

    Don't get me wrong, I like to see the new release but this way the game will look like a polished TRIBBLE. It may be shine but it stinks as hell.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tudenomtudenom Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Did you ever play in an Armitage? Thing is 98% more tac then any Klingon cruiser or escort.
    Try a Fleet Defiant with cloak, atleast 1 RCS console and 5 same energy type tac consoles. You'll be better then a BoP!
    They should have fixed KDF first before releasing Romulans.

    Yup, I agree with all of this! This is the result of Cryptyic blurring the lines between the factions mostly because they have incomplete factions. People don't want to play Klingons becasue there is so little content, but they still want their toys, so now we have Fed carrriers/carrier hybrids, Fed versions of Klingon consoles, and uber DPS escorts.

    Personally I think they really screwed up with their ship design when it comes to bridge stations. They could have built in a "feel" for each race by making the Lt Com slot the same on every ship depending on faction. for example:

    Feds get the LT Com as an Engineering slot on all of their ships.

    Klingons get the LT Com as a Tactical slot on all of their ships.

    Romulans get the LT Com as a Science slot on all of their ships.

    Cruisers get Commander Engineering, all races, with ensign variations to add flavour.

    Escorts get Commander Tactical, all races, with ensign variations to add flavour.

    Science gets Commander Science, all races, with ensign variations to add flavour.

    Only C Store ships should break these rules, but they should never be more powerful than an opposing factions version with the same bridge layout. Lock box ships should be hybrids or more focussed builds.
  • tudenomtudenom Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Sorry for derailing your post!

    Back to topic.....how about a low cost C store item that adds a mission pod to your BOP? Maybe it cancels the effectiveness of your battlecloak (ie now a regular cloak) but it gives you a shield boost, a flat bonus to science skills, and system targeting.

    I'm thinking something almost like a Klingon AWACS.
  • oldkhemaraaoldkhemaraa Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Yes we do need them..But quite honestly were unlikely to get them. I'd much rather see Cryptic add the KDF storyline tutorial and mission content up to level 20 (and possibly some more mission content after that so we dont have to play fed centric missions as KFD) so incoming player are not FORCED to play federation.

    Sure we're getting pretty much the same amount of "content" as the Federation faction players now. But the holes in the KDF are still pretty glaring after 3 years..

    Daniel Stahl one asked "Do you want the horde in space" (refering to the horde faction of World of ********)

    The answer is..

    "Yes Daniel, that would be rather nice to have. Make it happen."

    ......... Considering the Horde in WOW has every bit as much content of all kinds as the Alliance faction. Hell yea! Bring it on.. we would LOVE to get the "Horde" treatment for our faction in STO.
    "I aim to misbehave" - Malcolm Reynolds
  • kaiserkactokaiserkacto Member Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    tudenom wrote: »
    Sorry for derailing your post!

    Back to topic.....how about a low cost C store item that adds a mission pod to your BOP? Maybe it cancels the effectiveness of your battlecloak (ie now a regular cloak) but it gives you a shield boost, a flat bonus to science skills, and system targeting.

    I'm thinking something almost like a Klingon AWACS.

    I'm speaking for myself, but i like that idea
    "In every age,
    In every place,
    The deeds of men remain the same..."
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  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    My old thread on the scout proposal had to be close down due to its age.
    I opened a new one here:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=429791
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