I'm in a bit of an ethical dilemma here... I was under the impression that using AMS was a tasteless tactic. Especially if used by a premade. Am I right?
This came up after OmegaXIII faced a premade last night (i don't want to talk bad about another team, so let's just call them NC), where one ship used an AMS console.
Now I have led my fleet to believe that using AMS is poor taste, so they all keep their AMS consoles in the inventory, reserving them for PvE use. We don't react to PUGs AMSing us, because they may be ignorant of how it ruins a good match. When NC AMSd us, however, we got a bit disappointed... We did not, however, pull out our own AMS devices, as we felt noone would benefit from it.
After the match, i threw out in zone "Be cool, don't AMS", and got quite a surprising feedback from one NC member through PMs. He claimed WE were the ones spamming SS, and that was worse. Now I know for a fact that we had one copy of low-specced SS1 on our team, and responded that it was hardly spammable. Then I got told that using one weak SS1 was a greater offence than using a AMS console, because it has shorter CD... Is this right?
Finally, and this is where I really started to suspect that WE might not be the problem, I was told we were a team of spammers. To illuminate this, I'll give you our team setup in that match:
- 1 tac in cannon/torp escort
- 1 tac in cannon/beam escort
- 1 engi in a recluse.
- 2 scis in sciships, not running the same abilities as each other.
So this was our "spam-team", my question is therefore; is it possible to spam someone with this setup?
But back to my main ethical dilemma. Is it OK for a premade to use AMS? And is it OK for a premade to use SS?
In principle im against payed stuff cause it upsets game balance. But they are unfortuantly here to stay, and AMS in just a new nusiance and easy to deal with.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
I think AMS is more of a "cheese" ability and that's why it is hated. As for SS, I believe it is broken at the moment. If someone dies while scrambled, they respawn with a bug which disables all of your weapons.
I think AMS is more of a "cheese" ability and that's why it is hated. As for SS, I believe it is broken at the moment. If someone dies while scrambled, they respawn with a bug which disables all of your weapons.
Really? That WOULD be OP!
As for AMS, if we're told it's "perfectly ok" to use it, we may start showing up with 5 AMS consoles.... Imagine two teams with 5 AMS consoles each... They'll be lucky to ever see each other at all... It wouldn't give an advantage at anyone, but would make the game unplayable...
I recently started using AMS after I kept getting AMSed by players in queues.
It's fine really: 20 second immunity and a long assed cooldown too for the power too.
And if you want to get a long duration for it you have to spec into that expensive power and/or bring consoles for it.
Also Scramble Sensors messes up your tray by denying you access to it. I had to logout and back in in a match I was in after getting scrambled. Meh.
Personally I find teams running VM + systems engineers more annoying.
I was playing against a premade as a pug healer and I literally was being disabled like every 8 seconds or so.
Since Eng Team doesn't clear that additional proc apparently, it kept being applied.
We were doing well against them, but then they started running that on me and we lost the thread very easily after that. That's fine, but on an annoyance scale VM + systems engineers is way worse.
I recently started using AMS after I kept getting AMSed by players in queues.
It's fine really: 20 second immunity and a long assed cooldown too for the power too.
And if you want to get a long duration for it you have to spec into that expensive power and/or bring consoles for it.
Also Scramble Sensors messes up your tray by denying you access to it. I had to logout and back in in a match I was in after getting scrambled. Meh.
Personally I find teams running VM + systems engineers more annoying.
I was playing against a premade as a pug healer and I literally was being disabled like every 8 seconds or so.
Since Eng Team doesn't clear that additional proc apparently, it kept being applied.
We were doing well against them, but then they started running that on me and we lost the thread very easily after that. That's fine, but on an annoyance scale VM + systems engineers is way worse.
It's all DOffs. They've either made things overpowered or made previously useless abilities OK.
As for AMS, if we're told it's "perfectly ok" to use it, we may start showing up with 5 AMS consoles.... Imagine two teams with 5 AMS consoles each... They'll be lucky to ever see each other at all... It wouldn't give an advantage at anyone, but would make the game unplayable...
I guess it just comes down to what the two teams agree upon. The last premade vs premade I was in was with Critz who fought Turkish RP Heroes, and, if I recall correctly, the rules were no P2W consoles at Tier 4 and below (an exception is Subspace Jump), no SS and no Tric mines.
I guess it just comes down to what the two teams agree upon. The last premade vs premade I was in was with Critz who fought Turkish RP Heroes, and, if I recall correctly, the rules were no P2W consoles at Tier 4 and below (an exception is Subspace Jump), no SS and no Tric mines.
oh, i should have mentioned. We're usually in the open Arena queues. We're very new at PvPing as a team and don't feel cofident enough to take on any serious premades yet.
oh, i should have mentioned. We're usually in the open Arena queues. We're very new at PvPing as a team and don't feel cofident enough to take on any serious premades yet.
Oh! Well, prepare to be the most hated fleet in the game if you bring 5x AMS consoles to a PuG. :P
its still bad that it isnt resisted like ss but otherwise...
i use what i want for my build. the only thing questionable is the GP but i usually dont fire it unless someone else does or im hit by an ams (love hitting my own team :P)
But back to my main ethical dilemma. Is it OK for a premade to use AMS? And is it OK for a premade to use SS?
its lol when people would complain about ss1 but use ams. ss is a bo power and ams is a console. even if team a is using ss3, its very bad tast for team b to use ams. i dont mind premades using ss1 2 or 3, since i can still see everyone. but ams will just black everyone out and mostly follows by a tric mine spam.
It's fine really: 20 second immunity and a long assed cooldown too for the power too.
lol are you sure?????????? because u can bug out the immunity if you chain ams with ams or ams with ss
TRIBBLE thought i also had quoted your thing about vm and doffs oh well. the vm doffs are not even op in the least. just wait 5 secs into vm then clear with et. that will disable the vm doff procs.
I'll try that next time. Glad to hear I could have avoided that TRIBBLE.
Sucks to hear that people can bug the immunity. Oh well, I don't use SS anyway.
eh, i dont either. the target switching is annoying. but i have 6 into sencors on my sci so it dont last long. ams just ignores sencors. about vm, just wait till vm has like 3 secs left then use et if u need to to kill the doff procs. mostly i use bats on my healer so i just fight the vm. it cant target sheild power so spam extends all you want too.
SS is... well, it used to be that nobody ran with SS builds because they were simply annoying and would just lead to a situation where it was countered with more scrambles and thus created a circle of annoying SS usage that didn't really increase anybody's enjoyment of the game.
But then Cryptic decided that they needed to nerf CPB and TachBeam and thus left SS as one of the few sci abilities that are still somewhat useful...
We had the total scrambling back in 2011 when some teams were running with more than 6 copies of SS2/3, and it was possible to survive. But it was no fun to play these matches.
Is it op? Probably not so much. But balance and fun are different things.
SS is... well, it used to be that nobody ran with SS builds because they were simply annoying and would just lead to a situation where it was countered with more scrambles and thus created a circle of annoying SS usage that didn't really increase anybody's enjoyment of the game.
But then Cryptic decided that they needed to nerf CPB and TachBeam and thus left SS as one of the few sci abilities that are still somewhat useful...
We had the total scrambling back in 2011 when some teams were running with more than 6 copies of SS2/3, and it was possible to survive. But it was no fun to play these matches.
Is it op? Probably not so much. But balance and fun are different things.
but what would you rather have if you had to pick one? ss spam but can see the map or ams spam and cant see anyone? if it comes down to ams, then both sides need to ams at the same time, hit brace for impact and spam faw and hope you kill thoes tric mines that you cant see comming for you.
Don't play much PVP but if you but the equipment and it works with your tactics then use it. A lot of ships I brought normally don't have the consoles they were brought with and they sit in my bank.
But these items are made to help you win the game so if you use it and can win with it then great however there should be something that can counteract the device or ability and from what I can gather from playing the PVP and fighting within fleet matches there is always a way to counteract anything. You just have to have the ability to do so.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
SS is... well, it used to be that nobody ran with SS builds because they were simply annoying and would just lead to a situation where it was countered with more scrambles and thus created a circle of annoying SS usage that didn't really increase anybody's enjoyment of the game.
But then Cryptic decided that they needed to nerf CPB and TachBeam and thus left SS as one of the few sci abilities that are still somewhat useful...
We had the total scrambling back in 2011 when some teams were running with more than 6 copies of SS2/3, and it was possible to survive. But it was no fun to play these matches.
Is it op? Probably not so much. But balance and fun are different things.
Yeah, i remember the time of horrible SS use... it was _not_ fun... even if it's not directly OP. That's why I ask if it's considered bad taste. I hate winning a battle and then get "yeah, but you used AMS", or "P2W saves the day" thrown at me. (ofc, it depends who says it)
On the other hand, i'd hate gimping myself for no reason.... Maybe just keeping our AMS consoles in inventory, and employ them en masse if AMS is used against us first will be the best option after all... Still, having a wipe caused by AMS in the beginning of the match is horrible for morale in a fresh PvP team.
Don't play much PVP but if you but the equipment and it works with your tactics then use it. A lot of ships I brought normally don't have the consoles they were brought with and they sit in my bank.
But these items are made to help you win the game so if you use it and can win with it then great however there should be something that can counteract the device or ability and from what I can gather from playing the PVP and fighting within fleet matches there is always a way to counteract anything. You just have to have the ability to do so.
as you said you dont pvp much. dont take this the wrong way or anything. but a guy who dont pvp mych goes into pvp with a p2w console and gets owned. the guy who does pvp all the time with a p2w console knows how to use it much better for that perfect edge. me and rand al thore had a pvp 1v1 with 5 rounds just for lol. he had his recluse me in my bug. we both had ams but i had a tric mine. he had tb pets. if i put you in the same match would you know when to use your capt powers with bo lay out time the ams tb and trics? all it took was for him to mess up and give me his heals and get tric bombed.
tho we did go escourt to escourt and his sci escourt owned me with tric spam hahahaha freaking sub nukes lol
AMS has a viable counter that works now, so while I dislike it in large doses I can choose to counter it if I wish.
I do not think its that bad anymore and agree with MT, thats a good console slot wasted on a 2 minute CD power.
Yes it has long CD, but does that really matter? SNB also has a silly long CD, but it's considered to be the top killer skill in STO. AMS may not be as strong as SNB, but it sure messes up a team, and it can be equipped at almost no opportunity cost, by any captain class and ship type. And if it IS cleared, the road is wide open for a SNB strike. It's like giving SS3-Turbo to a sciscort.
Yes it has long CD, but does that really matter? SNB also has a silly long CD, but it's considered to be the top killer skill in STO. AMS may not be as strong as SNB, but it sure messes up a team, and it can be equipped at almost no opportunity cost, by any captain class and ship type. And if it IS cleared, the road is wide open for a SNB strike. It's like giving SS3-Turbo to a sciscort.
Its a tactic like any other and if the ST counter did not work for it I would say its in poor choice to use AMS, but since it does have a counter and is a legit game ability I can not say its unfair.
Bad taste, maybe.
Annoying, yes.
Unfair, no. Besides now the KDF can get access to AMS as well, so maybe it'll clean up in the wash of being used by both sides.
As well, it does give reason to skill in Sensors, as the Sensors skill will reduce the amount of time you are scrambled.
AMS has a viable counter that works now, so while I dislike it in large doses I can choose to counter it if I wish.
I do not think its that bad anymore and agree with MT, thats a good console slot wasted on a 2 minute CD power.
the biggest thing wrong with ams is the sencor skill has no affect on it and it stops you from seeing not only your team but the other team. so while i cut your duration of ss3 with 6 points in sencors, you get a full duration of ams when even some tacts on nova core spec it. so when you come accross a player that will ams you followed by a tb and a buffed up tric mine that you dont see come out of the ships TRIBBLE gg bro.
you get a full duration of ams when even some tacts on nova core spec it.
hey-hey, I was trying to keep the identity secret.... well, now that I see many people supporting AMS, I guess it's not a big deal anymore.
But yeah, I think saying "AMS is OK" will lead to battles with 10 AMS consoles in use... and if combined with one or two SS3 on each team, it will make the game nearly unplayable. There's just not enough sciteams in game to keep up with it, given the fact that it can scramble everyone in a 10km sphere.
hey-hey, I was trying to keep the identity secret.... well, now that I see many people supporting AMS, I guess it's not a big deal anymore.
But yeah, I think saying "AMS is OK" will lead to battles with 10 AMS consoles in use... and if combined with one or two SS3 on each team, it will make the game nearly unplayable. There's just not enough sciteams in game to keep up with it, given the fact that it can scramble everyone in a 10km sphere.
man i knew who you were talking about since first post. its spam core. so funney tho when they have a tact with 3 sub doffs 1 guy has ams and another guy uses gp and another guy uses theta. just ams them and the whole team drops tric mines. they will never see the mines comming. why? BECAUSE THE SKILL SENCORS DOES NOT FREAKING HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even with ss3 a team can fight during it with out getting a sci team. with ams this does not hold true. you cant see the map.
and who is supporting ams? i know risa dont, pandas dont, crits dont. cant talk for tsi but i believe they dont. turkish rp heroes i know dont. i do have an ams console in my inv. so do my fleet mates. if we get ams'ed then its a no holds bar.
Comments
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
Really?
As for AMS, if we're told it's "perfectly ok" to use it, we may start showing up with 5 AMS consoles.... Imagine two teams with 5 AMS consoles each... They'll be lucky to ever see each other at all... It wouldn't give an advantage at anyone, but would make the game unplayable...
It's fine really: 20 second immunity and a long assed cooldown too for the power too.
And if you want to get a long duration for it you have to spec into that expensive power and/or bring consoles for it.
Also Scramble Sensors messes up your tray by denying you access to it. I had to logout and back in in a match I was in after getting scrambled. Meh.
Personally I find teams running VM + systems engineers more annoying.
I was playing against a premade as a pug healer and I literally was being disabled like every 8 seconds or so.
Since Eng Team doesn't clear that additional proc apparently, it kept being applied.
We were doing well against them, but then they started running that on me and we lost the thread very easily after that. That's fine, but on an annoyance scale VM + systems engineers is way worse.
It's all DOffs. They've either made things overpowered or made previously useless abilities OK.
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
AMS is easily cleared by Sci team, and it uses a precious slot which you can only activate every 2? Minutes?
Useless imo. I dont get the QQn about AMS. Id rather stick some extra resistance in.
Resist!
Resist today!
I guess it just comes down to what the two teams agree upon. The last premade vs premade I was in was with Critz who fought Turkish RP Heroes, and, if I recall correctly, the rules were no P2W consoles at Tier 4 and below (an exception is Subspace Jump), no SS and no Tric mines.
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
oh, i should have mentioned. We're usually in the open Arena queues. We're very new at PvPing as a team and don't feel cofident enough to take on any serious premades yet.
Oh! Well, prepare to be the most hated fleet in the game if you bring 5x AMS consoles to a PuG. :P
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
Even if we combine it with 5 ships with SS3&2?
I'm pretty sure this could make us not only undefeatable, but also unplayable...
i use what i want for my build. the only thing questionable is the GP but i usually dont fire it unless someone else does or im hit by an ams (love hitting my own team :P)
its lol when people would complain about ss1 but use ams. ss is a bo power and ams is a console. even if team a is using ss3, its very bad tast for team b to use ams. i dont mind premades using ss1 2 or 3, since i can still see everyone. but ams will just black everyone out and mostly follows by a tric mine spam.
lol are you sure?????????? because u can bug out the immunity if you chain ams with ams or ams with ss
TRIBBLE thought i also had quoted your thing about vm and doffs oh well. the vm doffs are not even op in the least. just wait 5 secs into vm then clear with et. that will disable the vm doff procs.
getting wife agro? slip her some midol.
Hmm. Really?
I'll try that next time. Glad to hear I could have avoided that TRIBBLE.
Sucks to hear that people can bug the immunity. Oh well, I don't use SS anyway.
eh, i dont either. the target switching is annoying. but i have 6 into sencors on my sci so it dont last long. ams just ignores sencors. about vm, just wait till vm has like 3 secs left then use et if u need to to kill the doff procs. mostly i use bats on my healer so i just fight the vm. it cant target sheild power so spam extends all you want too.
SS is... well, it used to be that nobody ran with SS builds because they were simply annoying and would just lead to a situation where it was countered with more scrambles and thus created a circle of annoying SS usage that didn't really increase anybody's enjoyment of the game.
But then Cryptic decided that they needed to nerf CPB and TachBeam and thus left SS as one of the few sci abilities that are still somewhat useful...
We had the total scrambling back in 2011 when some teams were running with more than 6 copies of SS2/3, and it was possible to survive. But it was no fun to play these matches.
Is it op? Probably not so much. But balance and fun are different things.
but what would you rather have if you had to pick one? ss spam but can see the map or ams spam and cant see anyone? if it comes down to ams, then both sides need to ams at the same time, hit brace for impact and spam faw and hope you kill thoes tric mines that you cant see comming for you.
But these items are made to help you win the game so if you use it and can win with it then great however there should be something that can counteract the device or ability and from what I can gather from playing the PVP and fighting within fleet matches there is always a way to counteract anything. You just have to have the ability to do so.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
a circle of annoying sausage?
Yeah, i remember the time of horrible SS use... it was _not_ fun... even if it's not directly OP. That's why I ask if it's considered bad taste. I hate winning a battle and then get "yeah, but you used AMS", or "P2W saves the day" thrown at me. (ofc, it depends who says it)
On the other hand, i'd hate gimping myself for no reason.... Maybe just keeping our AMS consoles in inventory, and employ them en masse if AMS is used against us first will be the best option after all... Still, having a wipe caused by AMS in the beginning of the match is horrible for morale in a fresh PvP team.
as you said you dont pvp much. dont take this the wrong way or anything. but a guy who dont pvp mych goes into pvp with a p2w console and gets owned. the guy who does pvp all the time with a p2w console knows how to use it much better for that perfect edge. me and rand al thore had a pvp 1v1 with 5 rounds just for lol. he had his recluse me in my bug. we both had ams but i had a tric mine. he had tb pets. if i put you in the same match would you know when to use your capt powers with bo lay out time the ams tb and trics? all it took was for him to mess up and give me his heals and get tric bombed.
tho we did go escourt to escourt and his sci escourt owned me with tric spam hahahaha freaking sub nukes lol
I do not think its that bad anymore and agree with MT, thats a good console slot wasted on a 2 minute CD power.
R.I.P
Yes it has long CD, but does that really matter? SNB also has a silly long CD, but it's considered to be the top killer skill in STO. AMS may not be as strong as SNB, but it sure messes up a team, and it can be equipped at almost no opportunity cost, by any captain class and ship type. And if it IS cleared, the road is wide open for a SNB strike. It's like giving SS3-Turbo to a sciscort.
Its a tactic like any other and if the ST counter did not work for it I would say its in poor choice to use AMS, but since it does have a counter and is a legit game ability I can not say its unfair.
Bad taste, maybe.
Annoying, yes.
Unfair, no. Besides now the KDF can get access to AMS as well, so maybe it'll clean up in the wash of being used by both sides.
As well, it does give reason to skill in Sensors, as the Sensors skill will reduce the amount of time you are scrambled.
R.I.P
the biggest thing wrong with ams is the sencor skill has no affect on it and it stops you from seeing not only your team but the other team. so while i cut your duration of ss3 with 6 points in sencors, you get a full duration of ams when even some tacts on nova core spec it. so when you come accross a player that will ams you followed by a tb and a buffed up tric mine that you dont see come out of the ships TRIBBLE gg bro.
just look at all my post, ive been saying this is fail logic roach.
hey-hey, I was trying to keep the identity secret.... well, now that I see many people supporting AMS, I guess it's not a big deal anymore.
But yeah, I think saying "AMS is OK" will lead to battles with 10 AMS consoles in use... and if combined with one or two SS3 on each team, it will make the game nearly unplayable. There's just not enough sciteams in game to keep up with it, given the fact that it can scramble everyone in a 10km sphere.
man i knew who you were talking about since first post. its spam core. so funney tho when they have a tact with 3 sub doffs 1 guy has ams and another guy uses gp and another guy uses theta. just ams them and the whole team drops tric mines. they will never see the mines comming. why? BECAUSE THE SKILL SENCORS DOES NOT FREAKING HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even with ss3 a team can fight during it with out getting a sci team. with ams this does not hold true. you cant see the map.
and who is supporting ams? i know risa dont, pandas dont, crits dont. cant talk for tsi but i believe they dont. turkish rp heroes i know dont. i do have an ams console in my inv. so do my fleet mates. if we get ams'ed then its a no holds bar.