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Priority One: Warrior's Way #4-What is the KDf Story Anyways? Part II

gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
edited October 2012 in Klingon Discussion
Fellow players:

Please find the link below. This is the second installment in a multi-part series that goes through the entire KDF story arc, asking the question, "What is the story anyways?" Join me for the next few weeks as we experience the KDF story as both readers and players. Qapla'!:

http://priorityonepodcast.com/wordpress/warriors-way-4-what-is-the-kdf-story-anyway-part-ii/
Post edited by gradstudent1 on

Comments

  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    While I like the Federation war, which makes sense in a ST universe, I don't really agree with your conclusions about the fehkiri storyline. I know that's just a matter of preference, but I see it as boring and tedious pew-pewing. Most of the time, people love it or hate it, but at least we're never indifferent. And I don't like seeing the same assets over and over anyway.
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Thanks for the feedback, diogene0. When you refer to assets, I assume you are referring to the Fek'Ihri themselves and their ships. I found the combat, both in terms of its goals and its environments, to be sufficient diverse. But due to the lore-rich nature of the story, I may simply have a special place in my heart for the missions=).

    I actually think the Fek'Ihir return shows a nice balance between pew pew and dialogue. Think about the lore singers, the conversations with Kahless, the conversations with the barge rowers (okay the dialogue here is a bit tedious since you have to say the same thing to all of them), even the dialogue with J'mpok about the response of the high council.

    But as you say, this is a matter of preference. I like fish, maybe you like steak; at least we get something to eat in the end=)
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I enjoyed the Fek'Ihir storyline as well. It is among the best missions in game both visually and contentwise, but I was always curiuos how thier return tied into the grand Undine/Iconian/Borg subversion and war issue.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • jnohdjnohd Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    All I know is, when I see Karfi in a Blockade mission, I immediately brace my self for a low Marks payout.

    They Fek'Iiri are MEAN in a fight.

    And I'm a BIG fan of expanding that conflict, in addition to strengthinging the Undine infiltration storyline.

    We are an Empire under siege. We are fighting enemies on all fronts - the Fek'Iiri from dimensions unknown, the Undine from within our own ranks and the ranks of our former friends, and the Borg. The assaults upon the Klingon way of life are manifest in spiritual, political, and physical assaults (respectively). there is an old Martial Arts Fable I used to know that could apply here -

    EDIT: found it! The Okinawan tale of how Master Matsumura defeated another master without ever exchanging a single blow. (as told by Funakoshi)
    Matsumura voice became soft. "Perhaps," he said, "But I know this: you were determined to win and I was just as determined to die if I lost. That was the difference between us."
    Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 'Iw HaH je Hoch!
    ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
    A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
    Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
  • jnohdjnohd Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Regarding the commentary on "modernity":

    Science is currently suggesting something now not so far removed from the cornerstones of religion, at least in the Intelligent Design and Great Plan departments, with the recent theory regarding the likelihood, both through evidence observed and theoretical probability, that this universe is a simulation:


    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/11/physicists-may-have-evide_n_1957777.html

    http://www.technologyreview.com/view/429561/the-measurement-that-would-reveal-the-universe-as/

    Which of course had me reliving final moments of "Ship in a Bottle"... and longing for Moriarty-set-free (thanks to the 2394 decision regarding the Doctor) and exacting his revenge on reality mission arc.
    Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 'Iw HaH je Hoch!
    ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
    A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
    Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    This is all interesting stuff, jnohd.

    The relationship between Star Trek, modernity, and religion is absolutely fascinating. Here are some books on related topics:

    Star trek and sacred ground [electronic resource] : explorations of Star trek, religion, and American culture / edited by Jennifer E. Porter and Darcee L. McLaren.
    Jennifer E. Porter 1964-; Darcee L. McLaren 1965-; NetLibrary, Inc.
    Albany, N.Y. : State University of New York Press c1999

    Deep space and sacred time : Star trek in the American mythos / Jon Wagner, Jan Lundeen.
    Jon G Wagner Jan Lundeen 1956-
    Westport, Conn. : Praeger 1998

    Star Trek and philosophy : the wrath of Kant / edited by Jason T. Eberl and Kevin S. Decker.
    Jason T Eberl; Kevin S Decker
    Chicago, Ill. : Open Court c2008

    The metaphysics of Star Trek / Richard Hanley.
    Richard Hanley
    New York : BasicBooks c1997

    I am all for expanding the Fek'Ihri storyline. There are quite a few unanswered questions, like where they actually came from. Perhaps this was left intentionally ambiguous, not sure.

    But to be honest, as far as I can see, the KDF storyline is littered with underdeveloped enemies--casualties of half-completed storylines, etc. I would be more interested in a focused set of enemies (e.g., Fed, Fek'Ihri, and Iconian), rather than the swarm of foes we now face, which is actually quite unrealistic.
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    jnohd wrote: »
    Regarding the commentary on "modernity":

    Science is currently suggesting something now not so far removed from the cornerstones of religion, at least in the Intelligent Design and Great Plan departments, with the recent theory regarding the likelihood, both through evidence observed and theoretical probability, that this universe is a simulation:


    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/11/physicists-may-have-evide_n_1957777.html

    http://www.technologyreview.com/view/429561/the-measurement-that-would-reveal-the-universe-as/

    Which of course had me reliving final moments of "Ship in a Bottle"... and longing for Moriarty-set-free (thanks to the 2394 decision regarding the Doctor) and exacting his revenge on reality mission arc.

    Two great authors on the science/religion discussion (non-Intell Design folks):

    John Polkinghorne: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne

    Alan Padgett: http://www2.luthersem.edu/apadgett/
  • jnohdjnohd Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    My hope (optimistic though it maybe) is that ultimately, there is only one villain in the background.

    Think of it in these terms - We are at war with the Federation because of the Undine, who are undermining all governments in the two quadrants. At the same time, the Fek'Ihri just happen to return and weaken our ability to fight a full war with the Federation, and their focus is diminished by new incursions from the Wormhole at DS9 as well as True Way and other minor threats. Meanwhile, the Borg have happened to get close enough to make everyone sit up and take notice.

    Behind all this, we see several mentions of a hidden Iconian threat - always a single ship or single point of contact.


    Perhaps as the game reaches a more complete stage, we will come to discover the true influence behind all these coincidental threats? Some singular Iconian remnant come to life to pull at the strings of Borg, Undine, Fek'Ihri alike?

    Or perhaps my expectations are set too high.


    EDIT: Noteworthy - I do see the "minor" foes we (all of STO) face as opportunistic carrion feeders. The Devidians especially, but True Way, Tholian, and Breen are just as guilty of taking advantage of the primary galactic conflict to carve out something for themselves. I don't see any of them as major roles in the overall galactic story. Some part of me hopes that as they push up the level limit, and increase our involvement in the bigger arcs, we will be forced to chose which conflict we will become entangled in: Fek'Ihri (or Mirror for Fed?), Federation, or Borg. Mastery in one leading to access to some final Iconian conflict?
    Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 'Iw HaH je Hoch!
    ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
    A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
    Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
  • edited October 2012
    This content has been removed.
  • canis36canis36 Member Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I like the idea that even the Iconians are "fleeing" from something. Maybe we can tie it in with the old galactic barrier that was encountered way back in the Original Series. The barrier was set in place by old powers Q, Organians, etc. to keep something out. Only in another part of the galaxy (probably Delta Quadrant) the barrier has cracked/fallen and that something is starting to pour in.

    Maybe have the Iconians responsible for the crack/break in the barrier either on purpose or as a side effect of their portal hijinks.

    Though personally? I'd love it if we only got tidbits and hints of the Iconians and a massively beefed up story of the Undine infilitration/invasion and the Borg incursion into the A-B quadrants as the primary focus of dual-faction story development over the next several years with maybe some more focus on the Romulan conflict for KDF specific development and a few bones tossed the Feds way in the form of a revamp of the current Cardassian space arcs to flesh them out some with a less stupid Mirror Universe incursion and a less neat wrap-up of the True Way and finishing it off with Gul Madred revealing himself to your captain as an Undine Infiltrator...with a final note for that particular mission that Starfleet Intelligence has already caught wind of a reorganization of the True Way with Gul Madred still at the helm.

    Oh, and maybe we could have a crack at succeeding where Ja'rod failed and exterminating the tribbles on that one planet/moon.:D
  • rickpaaarickpaaa Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I am intrigued by the Fek'lhr relationship with the Hur'q. Much makes me wonder if the Hur'q are the Klingon experience of the Iconians. Both were though to have been extinct, yet both names have come up as if they were the same stitch in history of various peoples.

    I wonder if the Romulans working with the disgraced House of Torg were their agents via the Tal Shiar?
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    Member since December 2009


  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    rickpaaa wrote: »
    I am intrigued by the Fek'lhr relationship with the Hur'q. Much makes me wonder if the Hur'q are the Klingon experience of the Iconians. Both were though to have been extinct, yet both names have come up as if they were the same stitch in history of various peoples.

    I wonder if the Romulans working with the disgraced House of Torg were their agents via the Tal Shiar?

    This is an interesting connection with the Hurq! There is certainly potential to develop this line of thinking.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    jnohd wrote: »

    We are an Empire under siege. We are fighting enemies on all fronts - the Fek'Iiri from dimensions unknown, the Undine from within our own ranks and the ranks of our former friends, and the Borg. The assaults upon the Klingon way of life are manifest in spiritual, political, and physical assaults (respectively).


    I like this viewpoint of how you see the KDF in STO, but how does the limited storyline missions we have to play help show the begining of the war, its growth out of control and its eventual crescendo into the realization that we are being duped and must work with our allies nieghbors to overcome?

    Seriuosly? So far every move towards peace with the feds or the RSE has been a forced move made without backstory to help the player along.
    One minute we are fighting the feds over some grieviuos insult to our honor, etc, etc. and the next we are buddy-buddy helping them fight the Borg or rescue some Reman refugees, or help the Deferi on some ancient oath or helping the feds fight back the Tholians.
    The war with the feds was the last thing that we had that was still even remotely Klingon in nature, even if it is for the wrong reasons, and its dispeering.

    Its like the Dev team is just throwing ideas in a pot hoping the end product tastes good for all its content. It has little continuity or reasoning. I as a player would like to see it all click into place instead so the game as a whole, from start to endgame makes more sense.
    Not a one day we fight the feds, the next day we help them feed the Romulans, Hey lets all go fight the Borg, holding hands and singing happy songs.

    It truelly makes the KDF just a poor reflection of the federation after all.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »


    I like this viewpoint of how you see the KDF in STO, but how does the limited storyline missions we have to play help show the begining of the war, its growth out of control and its eventual crescendo into the realization that we are being duped and must work with our allies nieghbors to overcome?

    Seriuosly? So far every move towards peace with the feds or the RSE has been a forced move made without backstory to help the player along.
    One minute we are fighting the feds over some grieviuos insult to our honor, etc, etc. and the next we are buddy-buddy helping them fight the Borg or rescue some Reman refugees, or help the Deferi on some ancient oath or helping the feds fight back the Tholians.
    The war with the feds was the last thing that we had that was still even remotely Klingon in nature, even if it is for the wrong reasons, and its dispeering.

    Its like the Dev team is just throwing ideas in a pot hoping the end product tastes good for all its content. It has little continuity or reasoning. I as a player would like to see it all click into place instead so the game as a whole, from start to endgame makes more sense.
    Not a one day we fight the feds, the next day we help them feed the Romulans, Hey lets all go fight the Borg, holding hands and singing happy songs.

    It truelly makes the KDF just a poor reflection of the federation after all.

    Agreed! The lack of narrative cohesion is becoming more and more apparent, and I think the soup analogy is right on! The background of the war is limited; we only hear bits and pieces from the Spock voices that pops in every one in a while at the beginning, but these are rare, leaving a great deal unsaid.

    The entire storyline needs a review and revision, one that aims toward more cohesion and toward tying up the manifold loose ends.
  • jnohdjnohd Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »


    I like this viewpoint of how you see the KDF in STO, but how does the limited storyline missions we have to play help show the begining of the war, its growth out of control and its eventual crescendo into the realization that we are being duped and must work with our allies nieghbors to overcome?

    Seriuosly? So far every move towards peace with the feds or the RSE has been a forced move made without backstory to help the player along.
    One minute we are fighting the feds over some grieviuos insult to our honor, etc, etc. and the next we are buddy-buddy helping them fight the Borg or rescue some Reman refugees, or help the Deferi on some ancient oath or helping the feds fight back the Tholians.
    The war with the feds was the last thing that we had that was still even remotely Klingon in nature, even if it is for the wrong reasons, and its dispeering.

    Its like the Dev team is just throwing ideas in a pot hoping the end product tastes good for all its content. It has little continuity or reasoning. I as a player would like to see it all click into place instead so the game as a whole, from start to endgame makes more sense.
    Not a one day we fight the feds, the next day we help them feed the Romulans, Hey lets all go fight the Borg, holding hands and singing happy songs.

    It truelly makes the KDF just a poor reflection of the federation after all.


    You and I have the same mindset on this (and have discussed it before) - There is a rich and strong story here, but you only access it by scouring the game's backstory, and picking up scattered, weak clues from a handful of missions, only to have it all thrown out the window when you first set foot on DS9.

    I strongly believe it *CAN* be explained...

    But I am in full agreement that it has not been properly explained.

    EDIT: and if the Fleet queues are any indication, we simply need to have cross-faction STFs or we would rarely get to run them...
    Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 'Iw HaH je Hoch!
    ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
    A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
    Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
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