test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

ATTN Borticus: Directed Energy Modulation...

francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
edited May 2013 in PvP Gameplay
... and other bugs.

I did some tests on DEM today.
1- DEM works fine with CRF and CSV. I don't know why someone said it does not work, but my logs show that DEM is working fine with all abilities (crf, csv, faw, bo).
2- DEM damage is OK on all weapons, but tooltip is wrong except on phaser weapons. Some people said that phaser weapons are bugged and they do more DEM damage than other energy types, but my tests show that this is not true: phaser weapons are the only weapons that are showing the correct amount of damage in tooltip, but damage is the same on every energy type. Also, the tooltip on the DEM ability itself is bugged. The correct amount of damage is however reported in combat logs (and on phaser weapons of course).
3- A recent patch updated the [Prefire Chamber] and [Directed Energy Manifold] consoles tooltips to reflect the fact that they improve cannon and beams damage respectively. This is not true, both are increasing all energy damage, does not matter if beams or cannons, you can easily check this on tooltips. I suspect that they both increase the "starship energy weapons" skill. As a result, those consoles increase DEM damage. This is fine, don't change it, because it makes viable a setup with generic energy consoles where you can deal less "specialized" damage and more DEM damage. But console description needs to be changed to reflect this.
4- DEM and Tetryon Glider are the only "per shot" abilities, but while Tetryon Glider was adjusted for use with DHC, DEM was not.
Let me explain. A dual cannon shot with both DEM and Glider activated will report something like this in the combat log (numbers were rounded to explain):

Your Dual Tetryon Cannons - Scatter Volley II dealt 1000 shield damage to target. (this is the weapon)
Your Dual Tetryon Cannons - Scatter Volley II deals 75 Tetryon Damage to target (this is glider)
Your Directed Energy Modulation II deals 75 Tetryon Damage to target. (this is dem)

The same shot with a DHC will report

Your Dual Heavy Tetryon Cannons - Scatter Volley II dealt 2000 shield damage to target. (this is the weapon)
Your Dual Heavy Tetryon Cannons - Scatter Volley II deals 150 Tetryon Damage to target (this is glider)
Your Directed Energy Modulation II deals 75 Tetryon Damage to target. (this is dem)

As you can see the DHC shot was adjusted to deal double damage with glider, to compensate the fact that DHC fires half of the shots when compared with DC. The same was not made with DEM (but maybe it should).
Post edited by francescos77 on

Comments

  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    missed this thread earlier. well maybe they fixed it. a wile back when i was unofficially testing DEM, i would use it with CRF and times when i would not pierce shields, i saw little or no bleed damage caused, no more then 2%. then when CRF ended, i would see the weapons fireing at normal speed cause at least 10% bleed for the remaining 20 seconds. i saw thisphenomenon over and over and over and over. wile i didn't check any logs, i was pretty sure i found a pattern.


    those are some other interesting discoveries there too. i see the tests were done with CSV, your sure you tested with CRF too?
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    missed this thread earlier. well maybe they fixed it. a wile back when i was unofficially testing DEM, i would use it with CRF and times when i would not pierce shields, i saw little or no bleed damage caused, no more then 2%. then when CRF ended, i would see the weapons fireing at normal speed cause at least 10% bleed for the remaining 20 seconds. i saw thisphenomenon over and over and over and over. wile i didn't check any logs, i was pretty sure i found a pattern.


    those are some other interesting discoveries there too. i see the tests were done with CSV, your sure you tested with CRF too?

    Yes, it also works with CRF, i've tested it with all abilities (and i'm using it with CRF at the moment).
    One cannon shot = one DEM damage shot, always.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    DEM has never created more dmg with Rapid Fires or scatters or Faw... but it always still caused dmg.

    DEM has an internal limit to its dmg... it provides X amount of strikes per second in my view... if you take a cruiser and put 8 turrets on it and parse the data... and then remove 2 turrets and run the same test the DEM dmg will be the same.

    Dem may be listed as a on nrg weapon activation skill on the tooltip... but that is simply not the way it works.... Rapid Fire Scatter Faw... or adding extra weapons doesn't make any difference that I see... granted I just looked at parser data I never really set out to test it to much... but thats the way it works as I remember... you will see weapon strikes missing the follow up DEM shot you would expect if you where looking for it after every hit, still seems to work as I think it was intended though.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    husanakx wrote: »

    DEM has an internal limit to its dmg...

    Does this mean that BUmping Weapons Power with WeapBatt or EPTW to 160+, using beams and DEM does not provide a huge buff in damage for both DEM or the energy weapons in general?
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »

    Does this mean that BUmping Weapons Power with WeapBatt or EPTW to 160+, using beams and DEM does not provide a huge buff in damage for both DEM or the energy weapons in general?

    I am interested in this as well.

    Also, does anybody have any idea what DEM bases its crits on?
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • ghostyandfrostyghostyandfrosty Member Posts: 864
    edited October 2012
    redricky wrote: »
    bitemepwe wrote: »

    I am interested in this as well.

    Also, does anybody have any idea what DEM bases its crits on?

    It's obviously basing it's crits on something for a while I thought it was weapon modifiers but now I'm not exactly sure on that. It's really frustrating, because I really don't like having to log onto tribble and respec time and time again to figure something like this out.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited October 2012

    It's obviously basing it's crits on something for a while I thought it was weapon modifiers but now I'm not exactly sure on that. It's really frustrating, because I really don't like having to log onto tribble and respec time and time again to figure something like this out.
    I feel you. In the absence of informative or even trustworthy tooltips it's likewise frustrating for me waiting for people who are better at math, log parsing, and general attention to detail to come up with answers for me. :D
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • ghostyandfrostyghostyandfrosty Member Posts: 864
    edited October 2012
    Cryptic Policy when it comes to the Math and Mechanics : "When in doubt make it as convoluted and hard to reverse engineer as physically possible" I do think they did that on purpose too to attempt to keep the min maxing at bay. The thing is, we min maxers aren't the type to give up if we enjoy the basic game. We -will- find a way to build to the 9s.

    Off hand if I had to -guess- at the moment I'd say Energy Weapon Spec is probably what is doing the deed as it affects -all- energy damage currently. (including TBR)
  • pug02pug02 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    husanakx wrote: »
    DEM has an internal limit to its dmg... it provides X amount of strikes per second in my view... if you take a cruiser and put 8 turrets on it and parse the data... and then remove 2 turrets and run the same test the DEM dmg will be the same.

    What you are encountering is the Turrets tripping over each other's cooldowns. 8 Turrets will not yield you the maximum "licks" per second. Try a mix of Dual Cannons and Turrets since they don't share a cooldown. Or Cannons or Turrets could be a better option.

    7 Turrets with chaining CRF3 and CRF2 over 5 minutes yields: 8.35 licks per second average
    4 Dual Cannons + 3 Turrets + CRF3 and CRF2 over 5 minutes: 9.67 licks per second average
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    husanakx wrote: »
    DEM has never created more dmg with Rapid Fires or scatters or Faw... but it always still caused dmg.

    DEM has an internal limit to its dmg... it provides X amount of strikes per second in my view... if you take a cruiser and put 8 turrets on it and parse the data... and then remove 2 turrets and run the same test the DEM dmg will be the same.

    No, it's a per-shot damage, my tests with ACT show this clearly.
    I will post the screenshot here of one PVP match (but i have several others).
    Conditions for this test were the following:
    - 4 generic energy damage tactical consoles
    - dual cannons instead of dual heavy ones
    - dem2 activated half of the time thanks to technicians doffs
    - crf3+crf1 (crf1 fires less because technicians doffs are making crf3 available more often)

    Match Result
    http://sdrv.ms/RBxqSC

    Damage
    http://sdrv.ms/QmFpOU

    It's actually pretty good and pretty balanced because at the end you get less damage by using dual cannons and generic energy consoles but dem damage is maximized and, depending on the build you're using, you end up doing the same damage you would have done by using DHC+specialized tactical consoles.
    But tooltips on consoles and DEM ability must be fixed.
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    redricky wrote: »
    bitemepwe wrote: »

    I am interested in this as well.

    Also, does anybody have any idea what DEM bases its crits on?

    Dem crits when the weapons shot crits, just like tetryon glider.
  • dnaangel9dnaangel9 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »

    Does this mean that BUmping Weapons Power with WeapBatt or EPTW to 160+, using beams and DEM does not provide a huge buff in damage for both DEM or the energy weapons in general?

    people are still stuck on that mindset? how many times does it have to be proven both through combat logs and ACT parses to show you cannot "overcharge" your wep power. 125 is the limit. Period.

    EmptW does however give you a passive bonus to wep dmg for a small amount of time (5 secs I believe?), some many be getting it confused with that.

    Weapons Batts can also boost your dmg output with use of ExoComp Doff, but the boost is not coming from "Overcharging"
  • dnaangel9dnaangel9 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    DEM is a great skill in theory, sadly it is way underpowered for what it does. instead of it adding 60-80 dmg per shot/beam direct hull dmg, it should go by a percentage. Maybe 10% level 1 up to 20% shield penetration for level 3.
  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Drop that shovel and step away from the keyboard! This is a necro!!


    "Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.

    Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!

    Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Since when does glider show up in the log? I think you are confusing the two entries with Shield damage and hull damage. (or Bleedtru)


    For the DEM dmg phaser vs disruptor or anything else, its consistent and there is no actual dmg boost benefit for using phaser even if the tooltip says so.
    MT - Sad Pandas
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wow, old thread bump. Anyways, DEM with beams will do tickle level damage.

    But adding in DHCs and using tac buffs, and it can be pretty effective. Put it on like a D'kora or Fleet Tor'kaht, or a similar ship, and it can be down-right brutal. Even without buffs, I can see DEM 3 hit for about 200-250 damage a DHC shot. Fully buffed it can jump to about 500-700ish range, with it able to crit over the 1k mark pretty easily.

    So pretty much DEM just proves the effectiveness of DHCs even more if anything at all.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    dnaangel9 wrote: »
    people are still stuck on that mindset? how many times does it have to be proven both through combat logs and ACT parses to show you cannot "overcharge" your wep power. 125 is the limit. Period.

    EmptW does however give you a passive bonus to wep dmg for a small amount of time (5 secs I believe?), some many be getting it confused with that.

    Weapons Batts can also boost your dmg output with use of ExoComp Doff, but the boost is not coming from "Overcharging"

    I think you're missing the point of the buffer provided by overcapping which results in an increase in damage.

    Weapon Power affects the damage of each shot. Yes, you cannot go above 125 Weapon Power. However, if you have 125(135) Weapon Power and are say using beams, that's two beams at 125 Weapon Power as opposed to one at 125 and one at 115. Therefore, you have boosted your damage by overcapping. 125(145), 125(155), 125(165), 125(175)...etc, etc, etc.

    If you look at your combatlogs/parses...er...you'd see this.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    khayuung wrote: »
    Drop that shovel and step away from the keyboard! This is a necro!!

    STO needs Necromancers though...
    ...fear my alien zombie legions!

    edit: Wait, wouldn't that just be playable Borg?
  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Wow, old thread bump. Anyways, DEM with beams will do tickle level damage.

    But adding in DHCs and using tac buffs, and it can be pretty effective. Put it on like a D'kora or Fleet Tor'kaht, or a similar ship, and it can be down-right brutal. Even without buffs, I can see DEM 3 hit for about 200-250 damage a DHC shot. Fully buffed it can jump to about 500-700ish range, with it able to crit over the 1k mark pretty easily.

    So pretty much DEM just proves the effectiveness of DHCs even more if anything at all.

    Assuming you can keep arc on your Dual or single cannons however, dem will do more damage with those weapons.

    (Lower weapon cycle per weapon, and double the ticks (Shots) per cycle) compared to DHC's. If you're totally focussing on DEM dmg anyway :)
    MT - Sad Pandas
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Assuming you can keep arc on your Dual or single cannons however, dem will do more damage with those weapons.

    (Lower weapon cycle per weapon, and double the ticks (Shots) per cycle) compared to DHC's. If you're totally focussing on DEM dmg anyway :)

    Good point, I'd forgotten about that. Still, DEM is more effective with cannons, even singles and DCs compared to using it with beams.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Sign In or Register to comment.