Ok up until now I've skipped the missions between the Romulan mission and the mission with the borg console (forget the name at the moment). I decided to play, hoping there might be a KDF twist...nope. This mission is 1 for 1 cut and pasted for KDF players. Seriously.. you'd have to do some serious mental backflips to square this circle:
1) The Dominion took over DS9....why would the Klingons care? I thought they were at war
with the Federation.
2) How would the Klingon empire convince the Federation to release the founder? Laughable
even if you are Federation because it's the equivalent of releasing Hitler for a single base.
As a Klingon this is even more laughable.
3) Why would a Klingon officer get involved in prison riot control at a Federation facility?
The cut and pasted, recycled content is annoying as is, but in this case it's beyond stupid. Would it kill you to write some content?
1) The Dominion took over DS9....why would the Klingons care? I thought they were at war with the Federation.
Remember, Kar'ukan's forces think the Dominion War is still going on. They were at fighting the Klingons during that conflict. Therefore, the Klingons want to put an end the the occupation before the fighting escalates.
2) How would the Klingon empire convince the Federation to release the founder? Laughable even if you are Federation because it's the equivalent of releasing Hitler for a single base. As a Klingon this is even more laughable.
The Dominion is controlled by the Great Link, not the Female Changeling. She led the war as directed by the other Changelings in the Link. So releasing her is more akin to releasing an Admiral than a Hitler.
And again, it's not just DS9 they're concerned about. The rogue Dominion forces threaten both the Klingons and the Federation.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Probably because it was the only way to get out alive.
He's correct. From either side of the mission, the ENTIRE facility was on lockdown because of the escaped prisoners. No one would get out or in, until order was restored.
So, in order to actually return the Female Changling, they had to restore order to the Federation prison to get out. A minor swallowing of pride in comparsion to ending a threat to the Empire... which would you do?
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Ok up until now I've skipped the missions between the Romulan mission and the mission with the borg console (forget the name at the moment). I decided to play, hoping there might be a KDF twist...nope. This mission is 1 for 1 cut and pasted for KDF players. Seriously.. you'd have to do some serious mental backflips to square this circle:
1) The Dominion took over DS9....why would the Klingons care? I thought they were at war
with the Federation.
2) How would the Klingon empire convince the Federation to release the founder? Laughable
even if you are Federation because it's the equivalent of releasing Hitler for a single base.
As a Klingon this is even more laughable.
3) Why would a Klingon officer get involved in prison riot control at a Federation facility?
The cut and pasted, recycled content is annoying as is, but in this case it's beyond stupid. Would it kill you to write some content?
I think your over exaggerating a little by calling one changeling Hitler. Those rogue Dominion could of cause a lot of havoc. The base yes it was a federation base but also had a decent Klingon presence. It was a staging area for the Federation/Klingon allied Borg offensive.
You have to figure there were Klingons on the station when it was captured, and I don't know about you...but as a Klingon I could imagine it would TRIBBLE them off. Look at the beginning of the chain...they were in the middle of a meeting to decide what to do about the Borg.
Plus the Klingons always hated the Jem'Hadar...if I recall they always thought of them as Honorless machines...which is along the same thing they think about the Borg.
The riot...well the riot was kind of in the way...I mean you think all of those prisoners would just let them pass?
personally i do not have that much problems with this mission, but more with the klingon-federation war in general.
i mean it can make some sense if they would just call it a "cold war" or a dispute of somekind with small incursions from time to time. Like the DOOMSDAY mission for instance.
But this supposed full scale war is just not happening for me. You can still keep any major PVP or PVE fleet action against the klingon or federation...just give some sort of explanation that undine diguised as either KDF or FED launched a small offensive. Or a mad klingon general mobilized his house and attacked a Federation Starbase or fleetbase.
It is really time to burry the idea of this "fullscale war" between KDF and Starfleet, it never seemed to work out anyway.
ker'rat for instance could be a treasure hunt (borg tech) where FED and KDF race to get the most artifacts and they just play dirty.
personally i do not have that much problems with this mission, but more with the klingon-federation war in general.
i mean it can make some sense if they would just call it a "cold war" or a dispute of somekind with small incursions from time to time. Like the DOOMSDAY mission for instance.
But this supposed full scale war is just not happening for me. You can still keep any major PVP or PVE fleet action against the klingon or federation...just give some sort of explanation that undine diguised as either KDF or FED launched a small offensive. Or a mad klingon general mobilized his house and attacked a Federation Starbase or fleetbase.
It is really time to burry the idea of this "fullscale war" between KDF and Starfleet, it never seemed to work out anyway.
ker'rat for instance could be a treasure hunt (borg tech) where FED and KDF race to get the most artifacts and they just play dirty.
Ok I see your point about the prison riot, but I was just watching DS9 so it's fresh in my mind. The changeling ordered the dominion forces to "wipe out the Cardassian people" No you're right, she's not Hitler because Hitler killed 6 million, this freak of nature was talking about killing at least 6 billion people. She makes Hitler look like a boy scout. The dominion war killed about 500 million people. She's a war criminal. She may have been an admiral as another poster said, but...that's no excuse. They the TRIBBLE officials defense of "I was just following orders" convincing either, so...yeah let her rot in prison.
personally i do not have that much problems with this mission, but more with the klingon-federation war in general.
i mean it can make some sense if they would just call it a "cold war" or a dispute of somekind with small incursions from time to time. Like the DOOMSDAY mission for instance.
But this supposed full scale war is just not happening for me. You can still keep any major PVP or PVE fleet action against the klingon or federation...just give some sort of explanation that undine diguised as either KDF or FED launched a small offensive. Or a mad klingon general mobilized his house and attacked a Federation Starbase or fleetbase.
It is really time to burry the idea of this "fullscale war" between KDF and Starfleet, it never seemed to work out anyway.
ker'rat for instance could be a treasure hunt (borg tech) where FED and KDF race to get the most artifacts and they just play dirty.
Ding ding ding!!! That's what I was thinking as well. I can see the Federation and the Klingon empire having a dispute, but the dispute giving in the game storyline is a little weak sauce, especially when arguing for open war. Besides I thought Gowron the coward was defeated and replace by Marok (can't spell his name). Seriously they fought a long war against the dominion, that has to count for something.
Ok I see your point about the prison riot, but I was just watching DS9 so it's fresh in my mind. The changeling ordered the dominion forces to "wipe out the Cardassian people" No you're right, she's not Hitler because Hitler killed 6 million, this freak of nature was talking about killing at least 6 billion people. She makes Hitler look like a boy scout. The dominion war killed about 500 million people. She's a war criminal. She may have been an admiral as another poster said, but...that's no excuse. They the TRIBBLE officials defense of "I was just following orders" convincing either, so...yeah let her rot in prison.
Wouldn't you be a little pissed if your allies turned on you in a crucial battle in the war which in the end cost you the war?
I know genocide isn't right in any way, but there is a little difference between being betrayed...completed stabbed in the back and simply killing people just because you don't like them and feel superior to them.
Ok I see your point about the prison riot, but I was just watching DS9 so it's fresh in my mind. The changeling ordered the dominion forces to "wipe out the Cardassian people" No you're right, she's not Hitler because Hitler killed 6 million, this freak of nature was talking about killing at least 6 billion people. She makes Hitler look like a boy scout. The dominion war killed about 500 million people. She's a war criminal. She may have been an admiral as another poster said, but...that's no excuse. They the TRIBBLE officials defense of "I was just following orders" convincing either, so...yeah let her rot in prison.
it's quiet simple. if you recall, during the dominion Wars the Jem'Hadar ships were much more powerful than what the Klingons/feds and romulans, the three major powers of the quadrant, had. Even after, according to eraun.... 30 (probably closer to 40) years? those Jem'Hadar ships would still be pretty potent as enemy ships, as ship tech has not improved in major leaps and bounds.
Given the choice. would you
A. Give up one prisoner.... or
B. Face the wrath of 2800 (hence the FE seriese name, the 2800) ships? considering the war with the Borg alone, lets not add in the fact that the True Way would join in on the dominions side making it even tougher to fight. a war with the "rogue" ships would most likely open the way for the Borg to finally assimilate everything in their path?
it's quiet simple. if you recall, during the dominion Wars the Jem'Hadar ships were much more powerful than what the Klingons/feds and romulans, the three major powers of the quadrant, had. Even after, according to eraun.... 30 (probably closer to 40) years? those Jem'Hadar ships would still be pretty potent as enemy ships, as ship tech has not improved in major leaps and bounds.
Given the choice. would you
A. Give up one prisoner.... or
B. Face the wrath of 2800 (hence the FE seriese name, the 2800) ships? considering the war with the Borg alone, lets not add in the fact that the True Way would join in on the dominions side making it even tougher to fight. a war with the "rogue" ships would most likely open the way for the Borg to finally assimilate everything in their path?
There's also the Dominion proper to consider. Their offer to help was tainted with a threat. At best case, rejecting their offer would mean wiping out the Dominion fleet the hard way, costing more ships and possibly endangering DS9.
But, there's also the threat of the Dominion supporting the invasion. It wouldn't even take a full scale invasion in defiance of the Treaty of Bajor. Some secret funneling of resources would greatly draw out the conflict. Or just one hidden transmission could give that fleet objectives for suicide attacks throughout the quadrant, causing any manner of chaos and disruption in the war effort or leaving key planets open to the ongoing Borg invasion.
it's quiet simple. if you recall, during the dominion Wars the Jem'Hadar ships were much more powerful than what the Klingons/feds and romulans, the three major powers of the quadrant, had. Even after, according to eraun.... 30 (probably closer to 40) years? those Jem'Hadar ships would still be pretty potent as enemy ships, as ship tech has not improved in major leaps and bounds.
I don't know about that. The Jem Hadar weren't any more powerful. The defiant easily defeated Jem Hadar ships....the only proboblem was the fact that they bred like guppies. Still they had one serious weakness. Take away their precious "white" and they become more irritable than a heroin addict in withdrawl (probably just as worthless too). So this leaves the Vorta who are both cowards and stupid enough to believe a being that shape shifts is a god (I thought humans were easily impressed). Finally this leaves the shape shifter criminals who were easily brought down by a section 31 virus. No I'm afraid she
can stay where she is. She should have been excecuted.
I don't know about that. The Jem Hadar weren't any more powerful. The defiant easily defeated Jem Hadar ships....the only proboblem was the fact that they bred like guppies.
In "The Jem'Hadar", three Jem'Hadar frigates defeated a Galaxy class with ease. Their polaron weapons went right through the Odyssey's shields. It wasn't till the Federation had rapidly upgraded its ships that they were a match for the Jem'Hadar.
Still they had one serious weakness. Take away their precious "white" and they become more irritable than a heroin addict in withdrawl (probably just as worthless too).
When a heroin user is on withdrawal, they're irritable. When a Jem'Hadar is on withdrawal, they tend to shoot people - watch "Rocks and Shoals". So withdrawing the white would weaken them, but they'd still be capable of doing a lot of damage before they die out.
So this leaves the Vorta who are both cowards and stupid enough to believe a being that shape shifts is a god (I thought humans were easily impressed).
It's not a matter of intelligence - they were genetically bred to revere the Founders as gods. And I think most diplomats would be afraid if they were facing down a dangerous enemy without bodyguards.
Finally this leaves the shape shifter criminals who were easily brought down by a section 31 virus. No I'm afraid she can stay where she is. She should have been excecuted.
As already stated, releasing her was necessary to dissolve Kar'ukan's forces. Even after it didn't work, recapturing her would have enraged the Dominion and likely started another war.
And personally, I think letting her rot in prison for the rest of her life is a much harsher punishment than an execution.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
When a heroin user is on withdrawal, they're irritable. When a Jem'Hadar is on withdrawal, they tend to shoot people - watch "Rocks and Shoals". So withdrawing the white would weaken them, but they'd still be capable of doing a lot of damage before they die out.
to digress:
I remember when Weyoun commented that their white supply was going to run out soon, he and Damar were going to lace the remaining stockpiles with poison to prevent the jem'hadar from going completely berserk.
I don't know about that. The Jem Hadar weren't any more powerful. The defiant easily defeated Jem Hadar ships....the only proboblem was the fact that they bred like guppies. Still they had one serious weakness. Take away their precious "white" and they become more irritable than a heroin addict in withdrawl (probably just as worthless too). So this leaves the Vorta who are both cowards and stupid enough to believe a being that shape shifts is a god (I thought humans were easily impressed). Finally this leaves the shape shifter criminals who were easily brought down by a section 31 virus. No I'm afraid she
can stay where she is. She should have been excecuted.
Considering they are immune to that virus now thanks to odo curing them, they wouldnt be able to do it again. considering the true dominion likely has also beefed up defenses around the founder homeworld to make sure it doesnt hapen, i highly doubt Section 31 cares enough to make another since the dominion is no longer a threat. so pray tell how would you manage to go through dominion space to get to them? and stop them?
at this point in time starfleet or the kdf dont have the manpower to risk opening yet another front of war. and dont go sprouting on about how many players play the game. Story wise they dont count.
also, since white isnt kept on only one ship... how would you expect to get rid of it all and render the JH "Harmless" as you say. trying to blockade wouldnt work... as the force at DS9 was only the first wave, once the rest came in unless the KDF and Feds had every ship at there disposal in the area it would be a slaughter of the blockading force once all 2800 ships showed up.
Comments
Remember, Kar'ukan's forces think the Dominion War is still going on. They were at fighting the Klingons during that conflict. Therefore, the Klingons want to put an end the the occupation before the fighting escalates.
The Dominion is controlled by the Great Link, not the Female Changeling. She led the war as directed by the other Changelings in the Link. So releasing her is more akin to releasing an Admiral than a Hitler.
And again, it's not just DS9 they're concerned about. The rogue Dominion forces threaten both the Klingons and the Federation.
Probably because it was the only way to get out alive.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
So, in order to actually return the Female Changling, they had to restore order to the Federation prison to get out. A minor swallowing of pride in comparsion to ending a threat to the Empire... which would you do?
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I think your over exaggerating a little by calling one changeling Hitler. Those rogue Dominion could of cause a lot of havoc. The base yes it was a federation base but also had a decent Klingon presence. It was a staging area for the Federation/Klingon allied Borg offensive.
You have to figure there were Klingons on the station when it was captured, and I don't know about you...but as a Klingon I could imagine it would TRIBBLE them off. Look at the beginning of the chain...they were in the middle of a meeting to decide what to do about the Borg.
Plus the Klingons always hated the Jem'Hadar...if I recall they always thought of them as Honorless machines...which is along the same thing they think about the Borg.
The riot...well the riot was kind of in the way...I mean you think all of those prisoners would just let them pass?
i mean it can make some sense if they would just call it a "cold war" or a dispute of somekind with small incursions from time to time. Like the DOOMSDAY mission for instance.
But this supposed full scale war is just not happening for me. You can still keep any major PVP or PVE fleet action against the klingon or federation...just give some sort of explanation that undine diguised as either KDF or FED launched a small offensive. Or a mad klingon general mobilized his house and attacked a Federation Starbase or fleetbase.
It is really time to burry the idea of this "fullscale war" between KDF and Starfleet, it never seemed to work out anyway.
ker'rat for instance could be a treasure hunt (borg tech) where FED and KDF race to get the most artifacts and they just play dirty.
Ok I see your point about the prison riot, but I was just watching DS9 so it's fresh in my mind. The changeling ordered the dominion forces to "wipe out the Cardassian people" No you're right, she's not Hitler because Hitler killed 6 million, this freak of nature was talking about killing at least 6 billion people. She makes Hitler look like a boy scout. The dominion war killed about 500 million people. She's a war criminal. She may have been an admiral as another poster said, but...that's no excuse. They the TRIBBLE officials defense of "I was just following orders" convincing either, so...yeah let her rot in prison.
Ding ding ding!!! That's what I was thinking as well. I can see the Federation and the Klingon empire having a dispute, but the dispute giving in the game storyline is a little weak sauce, especially when arguing for open war. Besides I thought Gowron the coward was defeated and replace by Marok (can't spell his name). Seriously they fought a long war against the dominion, that has to count for something.
Wouldn't you be a little pissed if your allies turned on you in a crucial battle in the war which in the end cost you the war?
I know genocide isn't right in any way, but there is a little difference between being betrayed...completed stabbed in the back and simply killing people just because you don't like them and feel superior to them.
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
it's quiet simple. if you recall, during the dominion Wars the Jem'Hadar ships were much more powerful than what the Klingons/feds and romulans, the three major powers of the quadrant, had. Even after, according to eraun.... 30 (probably closer to 40) years? those Jem'Hadar ships would still be pretty potent as enemy ships, as ship tech has not improved in major leaps and bounds.
Given the choice. would you
A. Give up one prisoner.... or
B. Face the wrath of 2800 (hence the FE seriese name, the 2800) ships? considering the war with the Borg alone, lets not add in the fact that the True Way would join in on the dominions side making it even tougher to fight. a war with the "rogue" ships would most likely open the way for the Borg to finally assimilate everything in their path?
There's also the Dominion proper to consider. Their offer to help was tainted with a threat. At best case, rejecting their offer would mean wiping out the Dominion fleet the hard way, costing more ships and possibly endangering DS9.
But, there's also the threat of the Dominion supporting the invasion. It wouldn't even take a full scale invasion in defiance of the Treaty of Bajor. Some secret funneling of resources would greatly draw out the conflict. Or just one hidden transmission could give that fleet objectives for suicide attacks throughout the quadrant, causing any manner of chaos and disruption in the war effort or leaving key planets open to the ongoing Borg invasion.
I don't know about that. The Jem Hadar weren't any more powerful. The defiant easily defeated Jem Hadar ships....the only proboblem was the fact that they bred like guppies. Still they had one serious weakness. Take away their precious "white" and they become more irritable than a heroin addict in withdrawl (probably just as worthless too). So this leaves the Vorta who are both cowards and stupid enough to believe a being that shape shifts is a god (I thought humans were easily impressed). Finally this leaves the shape shifter criminals who were easily brought down by a section 31 virus. No I'm afraid she
can stay where she is. She should have been excecuted.
In "The Jem'Hadar", three Jem'Hadar frigates defeated a Galaxy class with ease. Their polaron weapons went right through the Odyssey's shields. It wasn't till the Federation had rapidly upgraded its ships that they were a match for the Jem'Hadar.
When a heroin user is on withdrawal, they're irritable. When a Jem'Hadar is on withdrawal, they tend to shoot people - watch "Rocks and Shoals". So withdrawing the white would weaken them, but they'd still be capable of doing a lot of damage before they die out.
It's not a matter of intelligence - they were genetically bred to revere the Founders as gods. And I think most diplomats would be afraid if they were facing down a dangerous enemy without bodyguards.
As already stated, releasing her was necessary to dissolve Kar'ukan's forces. Even after it didn't work, recapturing her would have enraged the Dominion and likely started another war.
And personally, I think letting her rot in prison for the rest of her life is a much harsher punishment than an execution.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
to digress:
I remember when Weyoun commented that their white supply was going to run out soon, he and Damar were going to lace the remaining stockpiles with poison to prevent the jem'hadar from going completely berserk.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
Considering they are immune to that virus now thanks to odo curing them, they wouldnt be able to do it again. considering the true dominion likely has also beefed up defenses around the founder homeworld to make sure it doesnt hapen, i highly doubt Section 31 cares enough to make another since the dominion is no longer a threat. so pray tell how would you manage to go through dominion space to get to them? and stop them?
at this point in time starfleet or the kdf dont have the manpower to risk opening yet another front of war. and dont go sprouting on about how many players play the game. Story wise they dont count.
also, since white isnt kept on only one ship... how would you expect to get rid of it all and render the JH "Harmless" as you say. trying to blockade wouldnt work... as the force at DS9 was only the first wave, once the rest came in unless the KDF and Feds had every ship at there disposal in the area it would be a slaughter of the blockading force once all 2800 ships showed up.