Actually, you've got it backwards and I'll explain why:
Cryptic (or rather, PWE) has three revenue streams for this game:
Zen sales (the bulk of the revenue they make)
Subscriptions (a drop in the bucket)
LTS (previously a drop in the bucket, currently netting them lots of sales but it'll burn out fast - additionally it floods the market with Zen)
If you buy Zen to buy something from the store that's a straight transaction:
Cash->Zen->C-Store ship (or whatever)
Dilithium is a little more complex because of the exchange mechanic but in terms of value to Cryptic/PWE, the value of Zen being low benefits them the most.
The more players that grind Dilithium without buying (with cash) Zen, the more Dilithium gets devalued against Zen.
So? That's great right? For the player, yes - not for Cryptic - because if you wanted 200k worth of Dilithium for your starbase upgrade right now (@ 158 Dilithium per Zen) that'd cost you around 1265 Zen (say $12.65).
If the market is flooded with Dilithium (from people grinding it) the value of Dilithium goes down - you might get say 295 Dilithium for your 1 Zen, so for 200k Dilithium you'd pay 677 Zen i.e. $6.77
The more people grind Dilithium rather than purchasing Zen the less money Cryptic/PWE make.
As for me - my tiny act of rebellion won't even show up as blip on their spreadsheets but it's not gonna make them a cent - all I'll be doing from now on is costing them money - still, I'm happy so many of you are eager to spend more on this game so I can reap the benefits too.
personally i believe this was the last great money collection from STO...i'd say the last content update will be season 8 or 9 (or not even that)...then the game will run with minimum staff and even less support.
i sure hope i'm not right, but i have this feeling in my abdominal region.
I agree. Whilst it's a major, immediate influx of cash there's no guarantee that this money will be going to Cryptic - plus if say 10000 LTS's are sold (unlikely I'd think), that's 5 million Zen that isn't going to be bought every month from here on in.
Dilithium is a little more complex because of the exchange mechanic but in terms of value to Cryptic/PWE, the value of Zen being low benefits them the most.
Only if that's where natural demand is(EDIT: and volume of transactions is high; it does them no good if volume of transactions is low).
But enjoy your sub-minimum wage job! I may consider buying dilithium if the price spikes the other way.
But enjoy your sub-minimum wage job! I may consider buying dilithium if the price spikes the other way.
That's getting a little old - abusing say 10 alts and the officer reports/lore missions nets you 120 Zen a day in maybe 20 minutes (@ current rates) - that's around 3600 Zen a month (plus whatever I get out of actually spending time playing mostly STFs - lets say another 2k, plus 500 Zen stipend).
Enough to buy a Bortas or Odyssey pack, 50-odd keys for around 75 million EC...
Can't believe I didn't think to do this sooner - maybe I should make a fleet of disgruntled lifetimers...
Hm... I doubt they even book the stipend as a liability. It's just a lost sale (compared to if that customer bought 500 Zen), but they don't really lose anything, and it doesn't cost them anything when someone redeems that Zen. (There's zero cost of production after all.) Heck, it might even be possible to book it as an expense and lower their taxes.
Cryptic is owned by the American subsidiary which is based in San Francisco and the company is publicly traded.
I imagine the IRS expect them to follow Standard Accounting Practices.
Which means gift cards and credits have to be tracked as liabilities, yes? Now, they COULD do periodic inventory of store credit given the volume of services they track, meaning that ZEN and promo points would be tracked on a FIFO, LIFO, or (most likely) Average basis as inventoried service liabilities? Given they're basically in the business of incurring service liabilities for revenue and they earn the service revenue by gating access to shiny virtual items and services?
That's getting a little old - abusing say 10 alts and the officer reports/lore missions nets you 120 Zen a day in maybe 20 minutes (@ current rates) - that's around 3600 Zen a month (plus whatever I get out of actually spending time playing mostly STFs - lets say another 2k, plus 500 Zen stipend).
Enough to buy a Bortas or Odyssey pack, 50-odd keys for around 75 million EC...
Can't believe I didn't think to do this sooner - maybe I should make a fleet of disgruntled lifetimers...
Yeah. I did the math on it. It's $1.20 for ten minutes of logging in and out. It's sub-minimum wage. You should REALLY show 'em and move to China and get a job in a factory producing gift cards for them!
Just make sure you spend a minimum of $50 more a month on STO to make up for the $50 I'm costing them - we wouldn't want Cryptic to lose money now would we?
STO still provides vet rewards to its players. If you are a gold member you will earn vet rewards up to 1,000 days as you continue to pay your monthly subscription.
Lifetime subscribers are special gold members. They earn all their rewards at once because they pay for their entire subscription at once rather then paying it monthly.
If I remember right, the italicized portion of your statement didn't happen to the Lifetime Subscribers until the new sale was announced earlier this week.
Just make sure you spend a minimum of $50 more a month on STO to make up for the $50 I'm costing them - we wouldn't want Cryptic to lose money now would we?
I don't know what you buy for $50 but I don't have to make it up. You're generating $36 in sales a month in exchange for store credit on items they presumably produce at a profit. If their profit margin is 28%, your decision to do this is revenue neutral for them.
I don't know what you buy for $50 but I don't have to make it up. You're generating $36 in sales a month in exchange for store credit on items they presumably produce at a profit. If their profit margin is 28%, your decision to do this is revenue neutral for them.
Nope - you're discounting the money I'd have spent buying Zen - you're also not factoring into your thinking all the free Zen floating around (of which a lot more is about to enter the economy).
Ultimately neither of us knows what my freeloading will or won't cost them - it won't cost me any extra time - I'm online for several hours each day anyway - this won't make any difference to that.
The one immutable fact is that they've turned a paying customer into a non-paying one.
Nope - you're discounting the money I'd have spent buying Zen - you're also not factoring into your thinking all the free Zen floating around (of which a lot more is about to enter the economy).
Ultimately neither of us knows what my freeloading will or won't cost them - it won't cost me any extra time - I'm online for several hours each day anyway - this won't make any difference to that.
The one immutable fact is that they've turned a paying customer into a non-paying one.
So you'd grind $36 worth of points a month and spend $50...?
The one immutable fact is that they've turned a paying customer into a non-paying one.
Ok, you're right about that. That is indeed a fact. As are many other things mentioned. I would posit that the real question to be asked is this.
What did the either the company Cryptic or their parent company PWE do that was so offendingly bad that they have lost you as a customer ? I can understand this sentiment. I will not , for example, give my money to Wal Mart, or Starbucks, preferring to pay slightly more to support other businesses with less unsavory practices. So , truly what was the straw that broke the camel's back as it were ?
More importantly, what would they have to do to gain you (or anyone like you) back as a paying customer ?
Once you answer that question, it can be answered whether or not the idea is feasible. Right now, all we have is, as my grandpa used to say, spit and vinegar. You seem full of rage about the situation, at least anger enough to boldly declare that they aren't getting your money anymore. Great, we get that.
Now move on to a proposed solution.
If you can't do that, then you are just raging against the machine, as it were. As you have said, blip (if that) on their spreadsheets. Shrug.
That's a fair question and it deserves a reasonable answer.
The answer isn't a simple one though - this game has been fraught with moments in its history that have driven substantial numbers of the player base away - a few examples:
Launching in a barely saleable state riddled with bugs and grossly lacking in content (particularly the KDF side)
Broken promises regarding the C-Store (cosmetic items only remember)
Pay-2-win: enhanced ships with consoles.
Lockboxes - the Bug ship is still a particularly ugly example of how the most powerful or unique ships in the game are unavailable to the majority of players.
Balance issues that have gone neglected for so long now they're largely beyond fixing.
PvP in such an abandoned state that the devs themselves have said it might be better to get rid of it altogether.
The content drought.
The handling of the switchover to Dilithium.
Many, many players before me have gotten disgruntled enough with the game to abandon it altogether. We've lost valuable community assets like STOked and players that contributed a wealth of knowledge and insight on the game's systems and technicalities.
And now, STO is a poorly-disguised shopfront for lockboxes with content haphazardly and randomly added as a hook to keep drawing players back time after time.
I don't hate the game - I've stuck with it for too long so obviously there's something there to keep me coming back - but it's not the Star Trek game it should and could have been - and it never will be - there's too much cost involved in working it over.
1000 days ago, for a game with an uncertain future and very little actual content I bought an LTS because I liked what the team were trying to do with it and I believed they truly wanted to achieve their stated goals.
Well they failed, and I don't begrudge them that because they tried - but along the way they alienated many of their player base through poor management and judgement. Still I stuck it out because - well - it didn't cost me anything further to play (I've bought lots of things through the store over the years though and every time I did, even though I might have fundamentally disagreed with the direction the game was going it, at least in some small way I was supporting the devs).
But the game I hoped for died a long time ago, and it's been sad for me to watch that happen and now, 1000 days later I can't even be bothered to change my forum title to 'Starfleet Veteran' because seriously - does it mean anything?
And you know - I watched SWG, a game that still even now it's gone was so ahead of its time make similar clumsy mistakes throughout its whole history and every time they did something bone-headed that alienated their veterans they tried to make it right in some small way - so I could never be mad at them - even with the NGE (when I stopped playing) - it was obvious what they were trying to do even though it was insanely optimistic.
I guess with SWG, I just felt that as a player, my small contribution over the years was valued by the company - with STO I don't - at least, not any more.
*Edit* Just a little addition - those of us that have been here since the beginning (and that may include some of the people I've been debating with on these forums) have had many things promised, and seen little of that come to fruition, many of the people we used to play or fight alongside have since moved on and I don't know how many of us are left - not that many I suppose.
Each of us has our own reasons for sticking it out, but stick it out we did - and we're still here - still supporting the game and still hoping for its future. Do I think I deserve something for that? No. I think everyone that was here at the beginning deserves something for that - even if that's just a forum title or something in game so we can recognise one another.
I don't think that's too much to ask - but what do I know?
Just make sure you spend a minimum of $50 more a month on STO to make up for the $50 I'm costing them - we wouldn't want Cryptic to lose money now would we?
Sorry to have to re-post the link in this thread but Cryptic has put up a video to respond to greviences with the new LTS changes:
All humorousness aside, it's an issue that's divided the community at a time when we all should have been happy - not necessarily for what the veterans were getting, but for the fact that there are still those that have been around since the beginning, helping others and hoping for the continuation and betterment of the game.
It's as much an anniversary as the one and two year ones and it's a closure of sorts for those vets that have stuck it out through the bleaker moments of the game.
Like it or not, this was their time and Cryptic's silence in all this speaks volumes in of itself.
Having bought my Lifetime Subscription a few days before launch, I would like to see some Veteran Rewards (such as veteran titles and maybe at least one uniform) reserved for those who are actually veterans. I understand the capitalist motive behind offering the 1000-day ships to all Lifers, regardless of sub date. It's important to remember that many veteran subscribers are returning customers, however, and deserving of small tokens of gratitude that say "We thank you for your continued patronage".
that encourages ELITISM and ELITIST players really wouldn't fit in, in STAR TREK.
Elitism has been rampant in this game since launch. PvP is Elitist by nature. Elite STF's literally have the root word in their name. PUG's are frowned upon in favor of pre-made's. Large fleets gain earlier access to Fleet System rewards than small fleets or loners. Rewarding a veteran subscriber is no more elitist than any of that, especially if the rewards are minor and/or superficial.
If there are still people melting down over this by Friday, Brandon oughta give 'em two days to edit their posts before going hunting.
There's your vet reward, right there. The fact that there are quite a few people having meltdowns over this and there's not a wave of forum bans. It's entirely out of respect for the money you spent and the time you spent that you can make more than one thread like this without getting a forum suspension.
C'mon, that's just silly.
:rolleyes:
Because it's the sound that steel shod boots make on the deck plating of a real warship. As opposed [to] the cushy carpeting on the Federation luxury liners.
All humorousness aside, it's an issue that's divided the community at a time when we all should have been happy - not necessarily for what the veterans were getting, but for the fact that there are still those that have been around since the beginning, helping others and hoping for the continuation and betterment of the game.
It's as much an anniversary as the one and two year ones and it's a closure of sorts for those vets that have stuck it out through the bleaker moments of the game.
Like it or not, this was their time and Cryptic's silence in all this speaks volumes in of itself.
YOU GET NOTHING!! YOU LOSE!!
Are you trying to say that video is not correct? Or Humorus?
That's a fair question and it deserves a reasonable answer.
The answer isn't a simple one though - this game has been fraught with moments in its history that have driven substantial numbers of the player base away - a few examples:
Launching in a barely saleable state riddled with bugs and grossly lacking in content (particularly the KDF side)
Broken promises regarding the C-Store (cosmetic items only remember)
Pay-2-win: enhanced ships with consoles.
Lockboxes - the Bug ship is still a particularly ugly example of how the most powerful or unique ships in the game are unavailable to the majority of players.
Balance issues that have gone neglected for so long now they're largely beyond fixing.
PvP in such an abandoned state that the devs themselves have said it might be better to get rid of it altogether.
The content drought.
The handling of the switchover to Dilithium.
Many, many players before me have gotten disgruntled enough with the game to abandon it altogether. We've lost valuable community assets like STOked and players that contributed a wealth of knowledge and insight on the game's systems and technicalities.
And now, STO is a poorly-disguised shopfront for lockboxes with content haphazardly and randomly added as a hook to keep drawing players back time after time.
I don't hate the game - I've stuck with it for too long so obviously there's something there to keep me coming back - but it's not the Star Trek game it should and could have been - and it never will be - there's too much cost involved in working it over.
1000 days ago, for a game with an uncertain future and very little actual content I bought an LTS because I liked what the team were trying to do with it and I believed they truly wanted to achieve their stated goals.
Well they failed, and I don't begrudge them that because they tried - but along the way they alienated many of their player base through poor management and judgement. Still I stuck it out because - well - it didn't cost me anything further to play (I've bought lots of things through the store over the years though and every time I did, even though I might have fundamentally disagreed with the direction the game was going it, at least in some small way I was supporting the devs).
But the game I hoped for died a long time ago, and it's been sad for me to watch that happen and now, 1000 days later I can't even be bothered to change my forum title to 'Starfleet Veteran' because seriously - does it mean anything?
And you know - I watched SWG, a game that still even now it's gone was so ahead of its time make similar clumsy mistakes throughout its whole history and every time they did something bone-headed that alienated their veterans they tried to make it right in some small way - so I could never be mad at them - even with the NGE (when I stopped playing) - it was obvious what they were trying to do even though it was insanely optimistic.
I guess with SWG, I just felt that as a player, my small contribution over the years was valued by the company - with STO I don't - at least, not any more.
*Edit* Just a little addition - those of us that have been here since the beginning (and that may include some of the people I've been debating with on these forums) have had many things promised, and seen little of that come to fruition, many of the people we used to play or fight alongside have since moved on and I don't know how many of us are left - not that many I suppose.
Each of us has our own reasons for sticking it out, but stick it out we did - and we're still here - still supporting the game and still hoping for its future. Do I think I deserve something for that? No. I think everyone that was here at the beginning deserves something for that - even if that's just a forum title or something in game so we can recognise one another.
I don't think that's too much to ask - but what do I know?
im not going to lie im a star trek fan if i was not i would not be here not going to lie again i dont like cryptic all there games are on the sub par level even this one seem we got way more content under atari in just the frist year of this game about the only reason i still stay here is for the HOPE of playing a romulan for i have dun every thing you can do in this game overe 2 years ago
personally i believe this was the last great money collection from STO...i'd say the last content update will be season 8 or 9 (or not even that)...then the game will run with minimum staff and even less support.
i sure hope i'm not right, but i have this feeling in my abdominal region.
So, your contention is that they're hiring new people and beginning a "training up" process that will last right up until about the time you feel they'll shut down this division's most profitable venture before they're ready to launch their next MMO? That doesn't make any logical sense.
I suggest an alternate explanation exists for your abdominal discomfort, and further suggest that a couple of Tums will relieve it.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
So, your contention is that they're hiring new people and beginning a "training up" process that will last right up until about the time you feel they'll shut down this division's most profitable venture before they're ready to launch their next MMO? That doesn't make any logical sense.
I suggest an alternate explanation exists for your abdominal discomfort, and further suggest that a couple of Tums will relieve it.
One correction. Highest revenue, not necessarily most profitable. It depends how much they're reinvesting.
Segregating people by time served is a bad idea anyway. It's one thing to have events. Which you'd get if you were there for. Like the nanopulse weapons, the fire extinguishers, Worf's baldric, the titles. (And the titles are the thing I wouldn't expect sold.)
So...
I hope they NEVER DO. Because that encourages ELITISM and ELITIST players really wouldn't fit in, in STAR TREK.
If there are still people melting down over this by Friday, Brandon oughta give 'em two days to edit their posts before going hunting.
There's your vet reward, right there. The fact that there are quite a few people having meltdowns over this and there's not a wave of forum bans. It's entirely out of respect for the money you spent and the time you spent that you can make more than one thread like this without getting a forum suspension.
What's really, REALLY funny is that I was around to watch the elitism at its highest point as Lifetimers demanded more and more as rewards for being Lifetimers.
It was amazing to see the things they demanded, based on the fact that they'd ponied up 18 months of subscriptions all at once, so they'd never have to pay again and let the subscribers subsidize the Lifers' gamplay after that point (because once that 18 months is up, the Lifers become Leechers as they're no longer paying the subscription fee - they're just F2P players with perks).
And now I'm seeing demands for transwarp to the Captain's Table for Lifers - obviously because being handed all the vet rewards at once isn't enough.
I don't know if you were around back then, but if this community is managed the same way it was at the time, just wait. It'll be on fire.
Indeed the Ferengi have been TRIBBLE STO too long now.
"Too long, now?!" LOL
Don't know how long you've actually been around, xenor, because the real join dates got wiped when PWE bought Cryptic.
My original forum join date was August, '08, I played the betas, and hung on for a year before I got disgusted with how horrible the game was at the time, because I'm very much a Star Trek fan, and have been for over 40 years.
But I have to tell you, if you weren't here back then, that STO has ALWAYS been about Cryptic milking the huge cash cow.
There's nothing new about the game being designed to drain your wallet. It's just that at least PWE is more open about it with their F2P model than Cryptic ever was before F2P, or likely ever would have been had they not been bought out.
Don't know how long you've actually been around, xenor, because the real join dates got wiped when PWE bought Cryptic.
My original forum join date was August, '08, I played the betas, and hung on for a year before I got disgusted with how horrible the game was at the time, because I'm very much a Star Trek fan, and have been for over 40 years.
But I have to tell you, if you weren't here back then, that STO has ALWAYS been about Cryptic milking the huge cash cow.
There's nothing new about the game being designed to drain your wallet. It's just that at least PWE is more open about it with their F2P model than Cryptic ever was before F2P, or likely ever would have been had they not been bought out.
Same timeframe as you; well actually I joined the forums in '07.
In general is wasn't as bad as it's been the past year.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] EXPLORE.
Dec '07 Account I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
Which means gift cards and credits have to be tracked as liabilities, yes?
You misunderstood me.
I'm saying that Zen balances aren't credits - Zen have zero monetary value. Until they actually solidify tax laws about virtual goods, PWE/Cryptic don't even exchange anything for them, it's not like they're producing spaceships for us. Spending Zen shouldn't have an affect on their bookkeeping at all, because they're not tracking all the things we spend Zen on.
From a legal standpoint, if Zen had monetary value, then they would essentially be holding balances for customers, and be subject to a plethora of regulations governing that (financial institutions, credit unions, etc). This is avoided by not giving Zen a monetary value, which is why we can't trade or "cash out" our Zen balances. From an accounting standpoint, the only transaction that takes place is our initial purchases.
Blizzard handles their accounts that way as well, and their Blizz bucks can't be cashed out. The only way people can make actual money from the RMAH is to sell directly to a monetary account, bypassing Blizz's "virtual currency" entirely.
In general is wasn't as bad as it's been the past year.
Is this a joke? Things have never been better for us as far as Cryptic milking players for cash.
Does no one remember when Cryptic used to charge a monthly subscription AND still release everything through the C-Store forcing all of us to pay up on top of our sub?
Cryptic's double dipping, which they had going well before PWI ever came around, was absolutely appalling and one of the shadiest cash grabs in the industry. I quit the game over it and only came back when STO went F2P.
That was the worst moment in STO's history; when we were paying a sub, went a year without any real content, and Cryptic was still somehow able to continue pumping out C-Store TRIBBLE which we were forced to buy on the side if we wanted it.
Sorry, but it's the best it's ever been for players.
Is this a joke? Things have never been better for us as far as Cryptic milking players for cash.
Does no one remember when Cryptic used to charge a monthly subscription AND still release everything through the C-Store forcing all of us to pay up on top of our sub?
Cryptic's double dipping, which they had going well before PWI ever came around, was absolutely appalling and one of the shadiest cash grabs in the industry. I quit the game over it and only came back when STO went F2P.
That was the worst moment in STO's history; when we were paying a sub, went a year without any real content, and Cryptic was still somehow able to continue pumping out C-Store TRIBBLE which we were forced to buy on the side if we wanted it.
Sorry, but it's the best it's ever been for players.
So $250 per-character limited availability ships is the best this game's ever been?
Everything has been turned into a money or resource sink - even the Doff system which was a wonderful addition has been corrupted by the Fleet starbase system which sucks in an ungodly amount of Doffs and has raised the price of common Doffs astronomically.
Everything in this game has been tainted by the 'gameplay=grind' mentality. Sure, we had to grind before but that's because of content gaps which is at least understandable - stuff like The Vault simply disgusts me - no rewards during off-hours and one - one datalog when the event is on??
All for what? A shabby Mk XII set that's sub-par compared to what's available from the STFs - and some people consider that 'content'.
Everything that was good about this game is a holdover from pre-F2P - almost everything that makes me want to leave and not come back has been introduced since.
And just to qualify further, F2P gamers get a good deal - there's plenty to do (initially) and not much missing from a 'Gold' subscription or LTS - but the content they're getting I mostly played through two years ago (Nukara/Defera notwithstanding) so yeah - there's a lot for new players to like, very little to make 'em stick around though.
So $250 per-character limited availability ships is the best this game's ever been?
YES!!! A thousand times, yes!
LTSs were pretty worthless to newcomers until the change and the addition of the 1k days stuff.
After the F2P conversion Cryptic offered almost no incentive to subscribe for gold membership, let alone shell out $200-300 dollars for a LTS.
Now, though? Now the LTS is actually worth at the very least consideration. I know that this change was what pushed me over the edge. I don't particularly care for the ship as it's incredibly ugly but when you add up the Zen cost of everything the instant vet rewards give it adds up to over $100 bucks in C-Store stuff.
This was pretty much the best financial decision Cryptic has ever made.
What I find most amusing, though, is that all of the LTS QQers were also the same jack holes telling people that LTS weren't worth it and not to buy them when people on the forums asked.
And y'know what? At the time they were right. Now one is at least getting some immediate benefit for their money.
Comments
Cryptic (or rather, PWE) has three revenue streams for this game:
Zen sales (the bulk of the revenue they make)
Subscriptions (a drop in the bucket)
LTS (previously a drop in the bucket, currently netting them lots of sales but it'll burn out fast - additionally it floods the market with Zen)
If you buy Zen to buy something from the store that's a straight transaction:
Cash->Zen->C-Store ship (or whatever)
Dilithium is a little more complex because of the exchange mechanic but in terms of value to Cryptic/PWE, the value of Zen being low benefits them the most.
The more players that grind Dilithium without buying (with cash) Zen, the more Dilithium gets devalued against Zen.
So? That's great right? For the player, yes - not for Cryptic - because if you wanted 200k worth of Dilithium for your starbase upgrade right now (@ 158 Dilithium per Zen) that'd cost you around 1265 Zen (say $12.65).
If the market is flooded with Dilithium (from people grinding it) the value of Dilithium goes down - you might get say 295 Dilithium for your 1 Zen, so for 200k Dilithium you'd pay 677 Zen i.e. $6.77
The more people grind Dilithium rather than purchasing Zen the less money Cryptic/PWE make.
As for me - my tiny act of rebellion won't even show up as blip on their spreadsheets but it's not gonna make them a cent - all I'll be doing from now on is costing them money - still, I'm happy so many of you are eager to spend more on this game so I can reap the benefits too.
Thanks y'all
i sure hope i'm not right, but i have this feeling in my abdominal region.
Short-term cash-grab before the axe falls...
Only if that's where natural demand is(EDIT: and volume of transactions is high; it does them no good if volume of transactions is low).
But enjoy your sub-minimum wage job! I may consider buying dilithium if the price spikes the other way.
That's getting a little old - abusing say 10 alts and the officer reports/lore missions nets you 120 Zen a day in maybe 20 minutes (@ current rates) - that's around 3600 Zen a month (plus whatever I get out of actually spending time playing mostly STFs - lets say another 2k, plus 500 Zen stipend).
Enough to buy a Bortas or Odyssey pack, 50-odd keys for around 75 million EC...
Can't believe I didn't think to do this sooner - maybe I should make a fleet of disgruntled lifetimers...
Cryptic is owned by the American subsidiary which is based in San Francisco and the company is publicly traded.
I imagine the IRS expect them to follow Standard Accounting Practices.
Which means gift cards and credits have to be tracked as liabilities, yes? Now, they COULD do periodic inventory of store credit given the volume of services they track, meaning that ZEN and promo points would be tracked on a FIFO, LIFO, or (most likely) Average basis as inventoried service liabilities? Given they're basically in the business of incurring service liabilities for revenue and they earn the service revenue by gating access to shiny virtual items and services?
Yeah. I did the math on it. It's $1.20 for ten minutes of logging in and out. It's sub-minimum wage. You should REALLY show 'em and move to China and get a job in a factory producing gift cards for them!
If I remember right, the italicized portion of your statement didn't happen to the Lifetime Subscribers until the new sale was announced earlier this week.
I don't know what you buy for $50 but I don't have to make it up. You're generating $36 in sales a month in exchange for store credit on items they presumably produce at a profit. If their profit margin is 28%, your decision to do this is revenue neutral for them.
What do you do if they close the Foundry clicker stuff and eliminate dilithium from the lore daily? They have a solution for NW.
Personally, I think they'd be better off to keep it in specifically for the money folks like you generate.
Nope - you're discounting the money I'd have spent buying Zen - you're also not factoring into your thinking all the free Zen floating around (of which a lot more is about to enter the economy).
Ultimately neither of us knows what my freeloading will or won't cost them - it won't cost me any extra time - I'm online for several hours each day anyway - this won't make any difference to that.
The one immutable fact is that they've turned a paying customer into a non-paying one.
So you'd grind $36 worth of points a month and spend $50...?
What ON?
Ok, you're right about that. That is indeed a fact. As are many other things mentioned. I would posit that the real question to be asked is this.
What did the either the company Cryptic or their parent company PWE do that was so offendingly bad that they have lost you as a customer ? I can understand this sentiment. I will not , for example, give my money to Wal Mart, or Starbucks, preferring to pay slightly more to support other businesses with less unsavory practices. So , truly what was the straw that broke the camel's back as it were ?
More importantly, what would they have to do to gain you (or anyone like you) back as a paying customer ?
Once you answer that question, it can be answered whether or not the idea is feasible. Right now, all we have is, as my grandpa used to say, spit and vinegar. You seem full of rage about the situation, at least anger enough to boldly declare that they aren't getting your money anymore. Great, we get that.
Now move on to a proposed solution.
If you can't do that, then you are just raging against the machine, as it were. As you have said, blip (if that) on their spreadsheets. Shrug.
The answer isn't a simple one though - this game has been fraught with moments in its history that have driven substantial numbers of the player base away - a few examples:
Launching in a barely saleable state riddled with bugs and grossly lacking in content (particularly the KDF side)
Broken promises regarding the C-Store (cosmetic items only remember)
Pay-2-win: enhanced ships with consoles.
Lockboxes - the Bug ship is still a particularly ugly example of how the most powerful or unique ships in the game are unavailable to the majority of players.
Balance issues that have gone neglected for so long now they're largely beyond fixing.
PvP in such an abandoned state that the devs themselves have said it might be better to get rid of it altogether.
The content drought.
The handling of the switchover to Dilithium.
Many, many players before me have gotten disgruntled enough with the game to abandon it altogether. We've lost valuable community assets like STOked and players that contributed a wealth of knowledge and insight on the game's systems and technicalities.
And now, STO is a poorly-disguised shopfront for lockboxes with content haphazardly and randomly added as a hook to keep drawing players back time after time.
I don't hate the game - I've stuck with it for too long so obviously there's something there to keep me coming back - but it's not the Star Trek game it should and could have been - and it never will be - there's too much cost involved in working it over.
1000 days ago, for a game with an uncertain future and very little actual content I bought an LTS because I liked what the team were trying to do with it and I believed they truly wanted to achieve their stated goals.
Well they failed, and I don't begrudge them that because they tried - but along the way they alienated many of their player base through poor management and judgement. Still I stuck it out because - well - it didn't cost me anything further to play (I've bought lots of things through the store over the years though and every time I did, even though I might have fundamentally disagreed with the direction the game was going it, at least in some small way I was supporting the devs).
But the game I hoped for died a long time ago, and it's been sad for me to watch that happen and now, 1000 days later I can't even be bothered to change my forum title to 'Starfleet Veteran' because seriously - does it mean anything?
And you know - I watched SWG, a game that still even now it's gone was so ahead of its time make similar clumsy mistakes throughout its whole history and every time they did something bone-headed that alienated their veterans they tried to make it right in some small way - so I could never be mad at them - even with the NGE (when I stopped playing) - it was obvious what they were trying to do even though it was insanely optimistic.
I guess with SWG, I just felt that as a player, my small contribution over the years was valued by the company - with STO I don't - at least, not any more.
*Edit* Just a little addition - those of us that have been here since the beginning (and that may include some of the people I've been debating with on these forums) have had many things promised, and seen little of that come to fruition, many of the people we used to play or fight alongside have since moved on and I don't know how many of us are left - not that many I suppose.
Each of us has our own reasons for sticking it out, but stick it out we did - and we're still here - still supporting the game and still hoping for its future. Do I think I deserve something for that? No. I think everyone that was here at the beginning deserves something for that - even if that's just a forum title or something in game so we can recognise one another.
I don't think that's too much to ask - but what do I know?
Sorry to have to re-post the link in this thread but Cryptic has put up a video to respond to greviences with the new LTS changes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UDnTJcjPhY&feature=related
:eek:
All humorousness aside, it's an issue that's divided the community at a time when we all should have been happy - not necessarily for what the veterans were getting, but for the fact that there are still those that have been around since the beginning, helping others and hoping for the continuation and betterment of the game.
It's as much an anniversary as the one and two year ones and it's a closure of sorts for those vets that have stuck it out through the bleaker moments of the game.
Like it or not, this was their time and Cryptic's silence in all this speaks volumes in of itself.
Elitism has been rampant in this game since launch. PvP is Elitist by nature. Elite STF's literally have the root word in their name. PUG's are frowned upon in favor of pre-made's. Large fleets gain earlier access to Fleet System rewards than small fleets or loners. Rewarding a veteran subscriber is no more elitist than any of that, especially if the rewards are minor and/or superficial.
C'mon, that's just silly.
:rolleyes:
YOU GET NOTHING!! YOU LOSE!!
Are you trying to say that video is not correct? Or Humorus?
im not going to lie im a star trek fan if i was not i would not be here not going to lie again i dont like cryptic all there games are on the sub par level even this one seem we got way more content under atari in just the frist year of this game about the only reason i still stay here is for the HOPE of playing a romulan for i have dun every thing you can do in this game overe 2 years ago
system Lord Baal is dead
So, your contention is that they're hiring new people and beginning a "training up" process that will last right up until about the time you feel they'll shut down this division's most profitable venture before they're ready to launch their next MMO? That doesn't make any logical sense.
I suggest an alternate explanation exists for your abdominal discomfort, and further suggest that a couple of Tums will relieve it.
One correction. Highest revenue, not necessarily most profitable. It depends how much they're reinvesting.
What's really, REALLY funny is that I was around to watch the elitism at its highest point as Lifetimers demanded more and more as rewards for being Lifetimers.
It was amazing to see the things they demanded, based on the fact that they'd ponied up 18 months of subscriptions all at once, so they'd never have to pay again and let the subscribers subsidize the Lifers' gamplay after that point (because once that 18 months is up, the Lifers become Leechers as they're no longer paying the subscription fee - they're just F2P players with perks).
And now I'm seeing demands for transwarp to the Captain's Table for Lifers - obviously because being handed all the vet rewards at once isn't enough.
I don't know if you were around back then, but if this community is managed the same way it was at the time, just wait. It'll be on fire.
"Too long, now?!" LOL
Don't know how long you've actually been around, xenor, because the real join dates got wiped when PWE bought Cryptic.
My original forum join date was August, '08, I played the betas, and hung on for a year before I got disgusted with how horrible the game was at the time, because I'm very much a Star Trek fan, and have been for over 40 years.
But I have to tell you, if you weren't here back then, that STO has ALWAYS been about Cryptic milking the huge cash cow.
There's nothing new about the game being designed to drain your wallet. It's just that at least PWE is more open about it with their F2P model than Cryptic ever was before F2P, or likely ever would have been had they not been bought out.
lmfao lol rofl soooooooooo this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
system Lord Baal is dead
Same timeframe as you; well actually I joined the forums in '07.
In general is wasn't as bad as it's been the past year.
Dec '07 Account
I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget
Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
I'm saying that Zen balances aren't credits - Zen have zero monetary value. Until they actually solidify tax laws about virtual goods, PWE/Cryptic don't even exchange anything for them, it's not like they're producing spaceships for us. Spending Zen shouldn't have an affect on their bookkeeping at all, because they're not tracking all the things we spend Zen on.
From a legal standpoint, if Zen had monetary value, then they would essentially be holding balances for customers, and be subject to a plethora of regulations governing that (financial institutions, credit unions, etc). This is avoided by not giving Zen a monetary value, which is why we can't trade or "cash out" our Zen balances. From an accounting standpoint, the only transaction that takes place is our initial purchases.
Blizzard handles their accounts that way as well, and their Blizz bucks can't be cashed out. The only way people can make actual money from the RMAH is to sell directly to a monetary account, bypassing Blizz's "virtual currency" entirely.
Is this a joke? Things have never been better for us as far as Cryptic milking players for cash.
Does no one remember when Cryptic used to charge a monthly subscription AND still release everything through the C-Store forcing all of us to pay up on top of our sub?
Cryptic's double dipping, which they had going well before PWI ever came around, was absolutely appalling and one of the shadiest cash grabs in the industry. I quit the game over it and only came back when STO went F2P.
That was the worst moment in STO's history; when we were paying a sub, went a year without any real content, and Cryptic was still somehow able to continue pumping out C-Store TRIBBLE which we were forced to buy on the side if we wanted it.
Sorry, but it's the best it's ever been for players.
So $250 per-character limited availability ships is the best this game's ever been?
Everything has been turned into a money or resource sink - even the Doff system which was a wonderful addition has been corrupted by the Fleet starbase system which sucks in an ungodly amount of Doffs and has raised the price of common Doffs astronomically.
Everything in this game has been tainted by the 'gameplay=grind' mentality. Sure, we had to grind before but that's because of content gaps which is at least understandable - stuff like The Vault simply disgusts me - no rewards during off-hours and one - one datalog when the event is on??
All for what? A shabby Mk XII set that's sub-par compared to what's available from the STFs - and some people consider that 'content'.
Everything that was good about this game is a holdover from pre-F2P - almost everything that makes me want to leave and not come back has been introduced since.
And just to qualify further, F2P gamers get a good deal - there's plenty to do (initially) and not much missing from a 'Gold' subscription or LTS - but the content they're getting I mostly played through two years ago (Nukara/Defera notwithstanding) so yeah - there's a lot for new players to like, very little to make 'em stick around though.
YES!!! A thousand times, yes!
LTSs were pretty worthless to newcomers until the change and the addition of the 1k days stuff.
After the F2P conversion Cryptic offered almost no incentive to subscribe for gold membership, let alone shell out $200-300 dollars for a LTS.
Now, though? Now the LTS is actually worth at the very least consideration. I know that this change was what pushed me over the edge. I don't particularly care for the ship as it's incredibly ugly but when you add up the Zen cost of everything the instant vet rewards give it adds up to over $100 bucks in C-Store stuff.
This was pretty much the best financial decision Cryptic has ever made.
What I find most amusing, though, is that all of the LTS QQers were also the same jack holes telling people that LTS weren't worth it and not to buy them when people on the forums asked.
And y'know what? At the time they were right. Now one is at least getting some immediate benefit for their money.