to me the difference is i had to wait X numbers of days for my rewards where is a new lifer get its handed to them on a silver platter
^ This
Those that I know who have LTS got nothing compared to the fresh LTS'ers.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] EXPLORE.
Dec '07 Account I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
How is throwing money out once the same than supporting the game for almost 3 years? There is no ****ing difference between an lifetimer 3 years ago and a new lifetimer.
Both supported the devs with an large somme of money.
BUT I think that the new lifetimer shouldn't the forum title/accolade etc
I guess my big thing is:
You can't roll this kind of thing back and I don't think Cryptic makes enough money to create an additional 1000 days of vet rewards.
You can't roll this kind of thing back and I don't think Cryptic makes enough money to create an additional 1000 days of vet rewards.
So... What do you do?
Simple - never pay Cryptic another dime in this game or any other they may make in the future.
In fact, as we speak I'm rolling multiple alts to mooch as much Dilithium and Zen as I can out of them for free - something I've never once considered doing in the 1000 days I've been playing STO.
Simple - never pay Cryptic another dime in this game or any other they may make in the future.
In fact, as we speak I'm rolling multiple alts to mooch as much Dilithium and Zen as I can out of them for free - something I've never once considered doing in the 1000 days I've been playing STO.
I meant "What do you do?" as Cryptic given the circumstances we're in now.
But I guess your answer works. There's nothing they can do.
If there's nothing they can do from this point, doesn't that make these threads "I quit" threads?
Not when you have multiple alts all doing 'Investigate Officer Reports' and Lore missions in a couple of minutes flat earning you 100+ free Zen every day.
The Zen in the Exchange comes from people that buy it as much as anywhere else - I'll no longer be buying it - how does this benefit them exactly?
And no - I'm not quitting - just being as mercenary about my attitude to STO as Cryptic is towards its customers.
Simple - never pay Cryptic another dime in this game or any other they may make in the future.
In fact, as we speak I'm rolling multiple alts to mooch as much Dilithium and Zen as I can out of them for free - something I've never once considered doing in the 1000 days I've been playing STO.
You realize that any zen you buy with dilithium was originally purchased by someone, right ? Cryptic/PWE already has their money. In fact, by utilizing the D-exchange, you are showing that people will buy zen with dil , and encouraging others to buy Zen to sell.
So, your amazing plan at resistance and "mooching" from Cryptic actually is doing them no harm at all. It actually helps them.
You are a true revolutionary !!!
All this because they said "if you paid for it 3 years ago , you get this stuff", and "If you pay for it today , you get this stuff".
I am still shaking my head in disbelief at the response of some of the community.
See my above post - I've bought plenty of Zen and C-Points over the last few years - something I'm no longer going to do.
I've never abused the number of alts you can have, 'nor milked the clickies 'cause I was happy to pay for Zen if I needed Dilithium or wanted something from the C-Store.
Perhaps they should rename them from "Veteran Rewards" to "Loyalty Rewards" then? Since the rewards are now based on monetary support of the game, instead of simply waiting around for some arbitrary amount of time?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
Not when you have multiple alts all doing 'Investigate Officer Reports' and Lore missions in a couple of minutes flat earning you 100+ free Zen every day.
The Zen in the Exchange comes from people that buy it as much as anywhere else - I'll no longer be buying it - how does this benefit them exactly?
And no - I'm not quitting - just being as mercenary about my attitude to STO as Cryptic is towards its customers.
Loyalty and respect works both ways...
No. Really. That benefits Cryptic to do that. You sell cheap dilithium then which encourages someone to go out and buy ZEN to trade for your dilithium. It basically makes you a Cryptic employee.
EDIT: And I once calculated the cost of maxing out on alt slots and doing that versus the time it would take.
You'd make below minimum wage in ZEN and be driving someone else to buy ZEN.
See my above post - I've bought plenty of Zen and C-Points over the last few years - something I'm no longer going to do.
I've never abused the number of alts you can have, 'nor milked the clickies 'cause I was happy to pay for Zen if I needed Dilithium or wanted something from the C-Store.
Not any longer.
I see your post above, but you are mistaken. What you are doing , does nothing to hurt Cryptic. Nothing. You actually, by supporting the Dil Exchange market, encourage people to spend more money on them.
Your victory, if you can call it that, is simply you personally are not spending any more money. Great for you. That's actually a smart move, but it doesn't hurt PWE/Cryptic at all.
So enjoy your "victory". Just don't fool yourself into believing that this tiny act of personal defiance actually makes a difference to the bottom line of the company at all.
But , I want to thank you. By encouraging people to spend money on Zen so they can sell it in the D-Exchange, you are driving zen sales for them. That means more money for the company to continue to operate one of my all time favorite games.
You're arguing in a circle - I used to be one of those guys that bought that Zen with real money - they've just lost a paying customer.
I'm sure that there'll be plenty of others willing to buy Zen and trade it for the Dilithium I'm selling and that's great but they won't be getting my money again.
Ergo one paying customer less.
And Jon - thanks for the thanks - perhaps it would have been better timed when I was actually contributing real money to PWE's bottom line - like say, I dunno - two, three days ago?
Dude, they are willing to lose entire countries ....
Plus, you are saying , I am now trading all my countless DIL for Zen in a way I never did before !! Great, so, stop paying them real money and encourage the DIL Exchange Market. Either way, you are driving their sales.
So, again ... Thank you.
I love this game.
If you can get them more sales ... AWESOME !
Honestly, the "worst" thing you could do shy of hacking or quitting would be to buy up thousands of dollars worth of ZEN and sell it for 25 dilithium a pop, driving everyone else to compete.
This would result in a LOT of happy players and a lot of unhappy spenders unless it came with accompanying dilithium improvements or a reduction in dilithium prices. Which would, again, make lots of happy players.
Great! Tell you what - why don't you go buy $50 worth of Zen and sell it on the Exchange right now? I could use Quad Disruptors on my B'rel - my Dilithium's sitting there just waiting for you!
And remember! Every time you're digging deep into your pockets you're supporting the game you love so much (and I'm getting stuff for free!!).
Honestly, the "worst" thing you could do shy of hacking or quitting would be to buy up thousands of dollars worth of ZEN and sell it for 25 dilithium a pop, driving everyone else to compete.
This would result in a LOT of happy players and a lot of unhappy spenders unless it came with accompanying dilithium improvements or a reduction in dilithium prices. Which would, again, make lots of happy players.
Goes to watch the Dil Exchange just in case any of the disgruntleds are fool enough to take Leviathan99's advice
And seriously guys - whilst my own actions may not harm Cryptic's bottom line, the more disgruntled players they have that aren't willing to pay for Zen any more, the more trouble this game and Cryptic are in.
The player base of STO peaked a long time ago - it's only dwindling now. Promotions and such may bring people back in for a bit but it's never gonna be that much bigger than it is now.
Losing players that are willing to put money into your product is never a good thing no matter how much you try to spin it.
And seriously guys - whilst my own actions may not harm Cryptic's bottom line, the more disgruntled players they have that aren't willing to pay for Zen any more, the more trouble this game and Cryptic are in.
The player base of STO peaked a long time ago - it's only dwindling now. Promotions and such may bring people back in for a bit but it's never gonna be that much bigger than it is now.
Losing players that are willing to put money into your product is never a good thing no matter how much you try to spin it.
Goes to watch the Dil Exchange just in case any of the disgruntleds are fool enough to take Leviathan99's advice
It would WORK. It would just take thousands of dollars because you'd need to sustain it for days, maybe be prepared to buy the entire supply of dilithium in the game for a week. And it would require Cryptic not responding in any way. So it would also work as a test of Cryptic's competence.
And I'm not going to do it because I'm not trying to lodge any kind of protest. And it would take more money than I have to do.
Even then, anyone earning dilithium to sell is acting as an employee of Cryptic. It just becomes a better wage if dilithium has more buying power.
On the flipside, if you really wanted to protest as a strictly dilithium earner, the best route would probably be to buy up sellable dilithium items and crash the exchange value for it. You know, save up ten million dilithium, buy up crafting mats and transwarp coils and then crash the exchange price for them. Assuming anyone besides the buyers notices you doing it.
Really, there is very little you can do that involves dilithium that doesn't benefit Cryptic. You'd be better off ignoring dilithium or quitting the game if that's your goal. Anything else enhances their revenue.
Losing players that are willing to put money into your product is never a good thing no matter how much you try to spin it.
I agree. It sucks to lose customers, especially loyal ones... And if there were a cost effective solution you'd propose to keeping you, I'd be signing my name in support.
But what you're proposing just results in you actively creating replacement customers for yourself.
As I said, however you try and spin it - one less paying customer (i.e. me) does not automatically mean that you, Jon or a hypothetical new player is going to contribute in real money the cash I was putting into this game.
It may have been a small amout in the grand scheme of things, but its gone now - me selling Dilithium on the exchange to you won't make up for that (unless you spend more than you have been spending which if so, that's great for me, great for Cryptic, not so great for your bank balance).
As I said, however you try and spin it - one less paying customer (i.e. me) does not automatically mean that you, Jon or a hypothetical new player is going to contribute in real money the cash I was putting into this game.
It may have been a small amout in the grand scheme of things, but its gone now - me selling Dilithium on the exchange to you won't make up for that (unless you spend more than you have been spending which if so, that's great for me, great for Cryptic, not so great for your bank balance).
It means your replacement buying that ZEN is contributing more than nothing, which is what Cryptic would get if you quit.
Then again, if you did quit, it would save Cryptic $5 a month in stipend.
So there you go. You benefit Cryptic whatever you do.
But being a sub-minimum wage worker doesn't strike me as a show of disloyalty. No spin there. Just straight fact.
As I said, however you try and spin it - one less paying customer (i.e. me) does not automatically mean that you, Jon or a hypothetical new player is going to contribute in real money the cash I was putting into this game.
It may have been a small amout in the grand scheme of things, but its gone now - me selling Dilithium on the exchange to you won't make up for that (unless you spend more than you have been spending which if so, that's great for me, great for Cryptic, not so great for your bank balance).
Actually, I am spending somewhat more than I normally do, because I want to support their business decision. IN addition to spending the normal amount I do per month, before the sale is done, I intend on buying a lifetime.
This latest "perk" as they call it, actually makes it worthwhile.
then you of all ppl should know that dont save them 500 zen for he is a lifer
They have to give him 500 ZEN a month. That's an unearned revenue or "store credit outstanding" liability on their books. If he spends it, they have to account for it. If he doesn't spend it (ie. by quitting) then they eventually get to credit it back, most likely in 12 months under standard accounting practices. Just like a gift card.
Now, if he waits 13 months to spend each stipend then it means they might have to get their accountant to do adjustments but they're high volume enough that I'd imagine they use periodic inventory on store credit anyway so the only way their accountant would be driven bad would be if they had thousands of players try to redeem stipend points that were two years old.
And IF that happened, Cryptic would probably just add fine print explaining that unspent stipend points get cancelled after 12 months.
Point being lifers are a $5 a month liability.
There's an unearned revenue debit until they spend it. Spending it reduces the overall profitability of the company. Not spending it creates a little book keeping hassle depending on how individually things get tracked but after adjustments causes the C-Store to show a higher profit margin.
Hm... I doubt they even book the stipend as a liability. It's just a lost sale (compared to if that customer bought 500 Zen), but they don't really lose anything, and it doesn't cost them anything when someone redeems that Zen. (There's zero cost of production after all.) Heck, it might even be possible to book it as an expense and lower their taxes.
The Zen in the Exchange comes from people that buy it as much as anywhere else - I'll no longer be buying it - how does this benefit them exactly?
You're increasing the demand for Zen, and increasing the supply for dilithium. This makes the Zen to Dilithium conversion rate more favorable, and thus an incentive for those who want to buy Dilithium (Real Money -> Zen -> Dilithium).
Sure, they may have lost you as a customer, but you're not going anywhere and I've seen plenty of posts from people who intend to buy a LTS as a result of this - and I'm pretty sure they'll make more from the multiple $300 sales than however much you were intending to buy for the next 3 months. Not to mention that you've already invested time and money into the game, and you've clearly stated you have no intention of going anywhere.
Comments
^ This
Those that I know who have LTS got nothing compared to the fresh LTS'ers.
Dec '07 Account
I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget
Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
Actually, the difference is you had to pay for X number of days one month at a time, whereas a new lifer pays for X number of days all at once.
I strongly disagree with the decision to grant lifers the veteran titles and accolades though, it makes them so pointless.
Edit: Oh wait, you're talking early LTS with new LTS. That makes you sound even more whiny, though.
I guess my big thing is:
You can't roll this kind of thing back and I don't think Cryptic makes enough money to create an additional 1000 days of vet rewards.
So... What do you do?
Simple - never pay Cryptic another dime in this game or any other they may make in the future.
In fact, as we speak I'm rolling multiple alts to mooch as much Dilithium and Zen as I can out of them for free - something I've never once considered doing in the 1000 days I've been playing STO.
I meant "What do you do?" as Cryptic given the circumstances we're in now.
But I guess your answer works. There's nothing they can do.
If there's nothing they can do from this point, doesn't that make these threads "I quit" threads?
The Zen in the Exchange comes from people that buy it as much as anywhere else - I'll no longer be buying it - how does this benefit them exactly?
And no - I'm not quitting - just being as mercenary about my attitude to STO as Cryptic is towards its customers.
Loyalty and respect works both ways...
You realize that any zen you buy with dilithium was originally purchased by someone, right ? Cryptic/PWE already has their money. In fact, by utilizing the D-exchange, you are showing that people will buy zen with dil , and encouraging others to buy Zen to sell.
So, your amazing plan at resistance and "mooching" from Cryptic actually is doing them no harm at all. It actually helps them.
You are a true revolutionary !!!
All this because they said "if you paid for it 3 years ago , you get this stuff", and "If you pay for it today , you get this stuff".
I am still shaking my head in disbelief at the response of some of the community.
I've never abused the number of alts you can have, 'nor milked the clickies 'cause I was happy to pay for Zen if I needed Dilithium or wanted something from the C-Store.
Not any longer.
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
No. Really. That benefits Cryptic to do that. You sell cheap dilithium then which encourages someone to go out and buy ZEN to trade for your dilithium. It basically makes you a Cryptic employee.
EDIT: And I once calculated the cost of maxing out on alt slots and doing that versus the time it would take.
You'd make below minimum wage in ZEN and be driving someone else to buy ZEN.
I see your post above, but you are mistaken. What you are doing , does nothing to hurt Cryptic. Nothing. You actually, by supporting the Dil Exchange market, encourage people to spend more money on them.
Your victory, if you can call it that, is simply you personally are not spending any more money. Great for you. That's actually a smart move, but it doesn't hurt PWE/Cryptic at all.
So enjoy your "victory". Just don't fool yourself into believing that this tiny act of personal defiance actually makes a difference to the bottom line of the company at all.
But , I want to thank you. By encouraging people to spend money on Zen so they can sell it in the D-Exchange, you are driving zen sales for them. That means more money for the company to continue to operate one of my all time favorite games.
Seriously, thank you.
You're awesome.
I'm sure that there'll be plenty of others willing to buy Zen and trade it for the Dilithium I'm selling and that's great but they won't be getting my money again.
Ergo one paying customer less.
And Jon - thanks for the thanks - perhaps it would have been better timed when I was actually contributing real money to PWE's bottom line - like say, I dunno - two, three days ago?
Dude, they are willing to lose entire countries ....
Plus, you are saying , I am now trading all my countless DIL for Zen in a way I never did before !! Great, so, stop paying them real money and encourage the DIL Exchange Market. Either way, you are driving their sales.
So, again ... Thank you.
I love this game.
If you can get them more sales ... AWESOME !
This would result in a LOT of happy players and a lot of unhappy spenders unless it came with accompanying dilithium improvements or a reduction in dilithium prices. Which would, again, make lots of happy players.
And remember! Every time you're digging deep into your pockets you're supporting the game you love so much (and I'm getting stuff for free!!).
Goes to watch the Dil Exchange just in case any of the disgruntleds are fool enough to take Leviathan99's advice
The player base of STO peaked a long time ago - it's only dwindling now. Promotions and such may bring people back in for a bit but it's never gonna be that much bigger than it is now.
Losing players that are willing to put money into your product is never a good thing no matter how much you try to spin it.
sooo this^^^^^^^^
system Lord Baal is dead
It would WORK. It would just take thousands of dollars because you'd need to sustain it for days, maybe be prepared to buy the entire supply of dilithium in the game for a week. And it would require Cryptic not responding in any way. So it would also work as a test of Cryptic's competence.
And I'm not going to do it because I'm not trying to lodge any kind of protest. And it would take more money than I have to do.
Even then, anyone earning dilithium to sell is acting as an employee of Cryptic. It just becomes a better wage if dilithium has more buying power.
On the flipside, if you really wanted to protest as a strictly dilithium earner, the best route would probably be to buy up sellable dilithium items and crash the exchange value for it. You know, save up ten million dilithium, buy up crafting mats and transwarp coils and then crash the exchange price for them. Assuming anyone besides the buyers notices you doing it.
Really, there is very little you can do that involves dilithium that doesn't benefit Cryptic. You'd be better off ignoring dilithium or quitting the game if that's your goal. Anything else enhances their revenue.
I agree. It sucks to lose customers, especially loyal ones... And if there were a cost effective solution you'd propose to keeping you, I'd be signing my name in support.
But what you're proposing just results in you actively creating replacement customers for yourself.
It may have been a small amout in the grand scheme of things, but its gone now - me selling Dilithium on the exchange to you won't make up for that (unless you spend more than you have been spending which if so, that's great for me, great for Cryptic, not so great for your bank balance).
It means your replacement buying that ZEN is contributing more than nothing, which is what Cryptic would get if you quit.
Then again, if you did quit, it would save Cryptic $5 a month in stipend.
So there you go. You benefit Cryptic whatever you do.
But being a sub-minimum wage worker doesn't strike me as a show of disloyalty. No spin there. Just straight fact.
im sorry but i could not help but lmao at this sto killing you bank balance since Feb 2ed of 2010
system Lord Baal is dead
did you see that blue title ??????
system Lord Baal is dead
Actually, I am spending somewhat more than I normally do, because I want to support their business decision. IN addition to spending the normal amount I do per month, before the sale is done, I intend on buying a lifetime.
This latest "perk" as they call it, actually makes it worthwhile.
Uh. Yes. Why?
then you of all ppl should know that dont save them 500 zen for he is a lifer
system Lord Baal is dead
They have to give him 500 ZEN a month. That's an unearned revenue or "store credit outstanding" liability on their books. If he spends it, they have to account for it. If he doesn't spend it (ie. by quitting) then they eventually get to credit it back, most likely in 12 months under standard accounting practices. Just like a gift card.
Now, if he waits 13 months to spend each stipend then it means they might have to get their accountant to do adjustments but they're high volume enough that I'd imagine they use periodic inventory on store credit anyway so the only way their accountant would be driven bad would be if they had thousands of players try to redeem stipend points that were two years old.
And IF that happened, Cryptic would probably just add fine print explaining that unspent stipend points get cancelled after 12 months.
Point being lifers are a $5 a month liability.
There's an unearned revenue debit until they spend it. Spending it reduces the overall profitability of the company. Not spending it creates a little book keeping hassle depending on how individually things get tracked but after adjustments causes the C-Store to show a higher profit margin.
You're increasing the demand for Zen, and increasing the supply for dilithium. This makes the Zen to Dilithium conversion rate more favorable, and thus an incentive for those who want to buy Dilithium (Real Money -> Zen -> Dilithium).
Sure, they may have lost you as a customer, but you're not going anywhere and I've seen plenty of posts from people who intend to buy a LTS as a result of this - and I'm pretty sure they'll make more from the multiple $300 sales than however much you were intending to buy for the next 3 months. Not to mention that you've already invested time and money into the game, and you've clearly stated you have no intention of going anywhere.