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Veteran Rewards a Misnomer
lordoffiling
Member Posts: 33 Arc User
Imagine this scenario:
Or this scenario:
In both scenarios, the player hasn't done anything to earn these rewards in terms of gameplay. They haven't been playing. They've shelled out cash, either in a lump sum or slowly over time. Yet they get the Veteran Rewards.
What does it all mean?
It means that Veteran Rewards, in this and all MMOs, have always been rewards for money invested, not time spent in-game. You get them whether you play for five minutes a month or five hours a day.
When you look at it like that, this most recent move by Cryptic makes perfect sense. The person has laid out the money for the lifetime sub. Why make them wait for what they've paid for? They're going to get it regardless of how much or how often they play.
It also means that the Veteran Rewards suffer from being incorrectly named. Naming them Veteran Rewards implies that the reward is for investing time, which, as we have just demonstrated, is false. It's about invested money, not time. In this writer's opinion they should be named something else, something that implies the player has elected to support Cryptic with their dollars.
On launch day, you purchased a Lifetime Sub to Star Trek Online. You played for five minutes, and said to yourself, "Well. That was a waste." You uninstalled the game and didn't play it again for 1000 days. You then decided you'd give it another try, maybe after all this time they've changed it for the better. You install it, and WHAM! Your character, which has not left the tutorial, has all the Veteran Rewards.
Or this scenario:
On launch day, you sign up monthly. You play all day, really enjoy yourself, then that evening go out for dinner and get hit by a car. You're in a coma for 1000 days. You wake up, go home, log in again, only to discover that your account has been drawing fifteen bucks a month the whole time you've been in the hospital. You have all the veteran rewards, even though you haven't played a day since day one.
In both scenarios, the player hasn't done anything to earn these rewards in terms of gameplay. They haven't been playing. They've shelled out cash, either in a lump sum or slowly over time. Yet they get the Veteran Rewards.
What does it all mean?
It means that Veteran Rewards, in this and all MMOs, have always been rewards for money invested, not time spent in-game. You get them whether you play for five minutes a month or five hours a day.
When you look at it like that, this most recent move by Cryptic makes perfect sense. The person has laid out the money for the lifetime sub. Why make them wait for what they've paid for? They're going to get it regardless of how much or how often they play.
It also means that the Veteran Rewards suffer from being incorrectly named. Naming them Veteran Rewards implies that the reward is for investing time, which, as we have just demonstrated, is false. It's about invested money, not time. In this writer's opinion they should be named something else, something that implies the player has elected to support Cryptic with their dollars.
Post edited by lordoffiling on
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There are plenty veteran reward programs in MMOs and I don't recall any of them giving out the rewards to any TRIBBLE that coughs up 200$ for instant access to all of them. And these are all sub based with no lifetime subs available in any of them. They have this little thing called integrity, which PWE/Crytpic just lost.
I agree with everything you just said here. I think there's a lot of crying over this sale and it really makes me scratch my head. I looked over the vet rewards and nothing there screams at me 'THROW DOWN $200 RFN.'
Free respec? I can get a free respec by just grinding dilithium for a bit and converting it to zen. Skill point boost? All my characters are max level and if I were to make a new character, the presence or absence of a meagre skill boost would not affect my gameplay experience one iota. Free character slot? I've still got three from when I bought it off the store. Free ship slot? Haven't found a need for it on any of my characters. The Captain's Yacht? I've already got a runabout sooo... Entry into the Captain's Table. Is that worth $200? Unique costume options. Again, worth $200? Fireworks? (Are you sensing what my next question will be?)
About the only thing that is at all appealing is the monthly 500 zen stipend and the fact all my characters and any future characters I make will have stuff like a full inventory and bank space available. That's... it.
However I feel this move is excellent in killing the Elitist Snob club that seems to have ensued in Star Trek Online; where some people seem to think that being in the game longer makes them especially and extraordinarily special. Because it doesn't. A newer player of a month in many cases knows more than someone who's played 1,000 days and made the same mistakes. I just feel that this has woken up some of those people to this fact.
Thus this move should be welcomed. The only reward for players having been around a long time should be their experience, expertise, knowledge and love of the game itself. Not a starship or perks that allow them to 1up themselves over everyone else. This way anyone willing to support PWE/Cryptic ..... can do so and feel like they're truly get something back for it.
They should have released the veteran ship as a LTS reward - that is the deal we're getting so what then do we get for subscribing 1000 days? An extra ship slot and a free 1respec, trivial compared to the almighty title change:rolleyes:!
Another option would be to have said up front all LTS are entitled to the vet rewards. Like with 100-400 days and the captain's table (was LTS only then vets got it later).
It's simply a poor handling job by Cryptic but that's what they do best, how ironic.
Yeap......Its hard to be a community when the very thing your being a community for seems to go out of its way to divide the community. lol
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Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
At least this purchase of a LTS comes with a definate reward for the investment and anyone who has subbed long enough (thus showing support for STO) but did not buy a LTS gets the ships as well.
R.I.P
Well actually City of Heroes did something like this. They did not have a lifetime option, but originally there reward system was a new badge and reward on three month increments.
After 5 or so years of that when they went F2P they went to a new system. People basically stayed where they were at on the current rewards list, but from now on, every month subscription got you a new token to use to advance up the scale. This meant basically anyone else coming along got a new reward every month instead of 3. Also any purchase of $15 of points in their store gave you another notch on the belt.
So in effect, you could BUY your way up the ladder quickly as well. While this scenario is still different in that you can't get everything at once like this offer can, it is still giving out rewards for any TRIBBLE who coughs up a lot of money. SO this isn't completely without some base in other games as well.
With this in mind I only have one question for Cryptic;
When do we start getting some Veteran rewards in this game? :P
It's brilliant, google Paragon Rewards
The lifetime subscriptions and long-term gold memberships are just a means to really expensive stuff that should have been in the C-Store anyway.
Sure, a high-roller might buy an LTS just to have a heavy destroyer in pvp. And yeah, that guy might have started playing yesterday. But does this edge case have to cast aspersions on the commitment of other LTS purchasers? Shouldn't a system be judged on the quality it provides to the many, instead of the few who might be able to 'exploit' the system by not having to play an enjoyable game for years?
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yesterday, when I saw not only a sale, but ALL vet rewards as well, that, is when I decided it was worth buying, bang, PWE/Cryptic earned 150 Euros.
^ That, my friends, is all this change is about, it motivates people like me into buying LTS.
It's funny to see fellow 1000 day vets melting down about this.
Because there was no Veteran Rewards program 1000 days ago when they bought their lifetimes.
Now... the Liberated Borg was supposed to be preorder only and the Captain's Table, when it showed up, was supposed to be lifer only. Those things changed and I don't think people blew up QUITE this much.
^
And OP, your scenario is incredibly flawed. I would like to point out...what of the thousands who did not get into a horrible accident and played and enjoyed knowing their loyalty would earned them rewards one day?
Dec '07 Account
I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget
Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
Captain's Table was a waste of time honestly seeing that it is still to the day a ghost town and the Borg was just for "cool" factor.
Dec '07 Account
I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget
Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
My personal thoughts on this whole storm why does it matter?
Let's just say someone bought a STO LTS as soon as it was availbale but when they actually started playing the game they didn't like it and decided to leave.
Let's say they come back with Season 7 hearing some great things. Wham... they are 1000 day vets. They spent their full 1000 days subscribed and yet they are still noobs.
I just don't get all this hubbub an LTS is guaranteed to unlock all veteran rewards... eventually Cryptic just removed the eventually.
People buy LTS they will get all the veteran rewards, I don't see why it matters so much that they receive it now rather than later.
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You pre purchase the collectors edition of startrek online, you pay 300 some odd dollars for lifetime prior to the game launching. You start during head start and into launch day. You then continue to play through 1000 days of the game, not missing a beat. You wait the whole 1000 days for each veteran reward to come available. Ontop of this expierence every good and bad moment the game has to offer from great events to months and months of no content.
Then suddenly the company offers the LTS with all the benefits us "older vets" had to wait for, be given to an individual in one day of purchase...
Then ask yourself, do you really feel valued by the company
An effective veteran reward system is the one City of Heroes used. They had a badge for each year subscribed to show loyalty to the game, but spending $15 on their version of the C-Store gave a veteran token to purchase your choice of veteran reward. There was also repeatable veteran rewards that you could purchase if their was nothing else.
Why wait for something later when you can have it now? Veteran implies something old and aged. No one wants to be that now, right? It's about young and trendy.
Sorry I turned 38 at the end of September. This veteran rewards program change has still got a little bit irked still for a bit different reasons. :P
Fast forward another 2 or 3 months and I finally have some time to play, oops looks like I don't even enjoy the game any longer. Lesson learned I guess, don't impulse buy lifetime subs.
About 3 months ago I re-installed on a whim and found the game to actually be pretty damn engaging now. Apparently the impulse buy was correct! Woo!
Leveled 3 Fed captains and currently leveling my second KDF captain, and can't get enough
Guess some would say don't deserve all these vet rewards though, since I didn't log in for over 2 and a half years? /shrug
But Why?
Other than a bigger carrot on the stick to make people LTS.
Shouldn't they open this up to all Golds now?
It might take the sting out.
Irrelevant. Completely.
Because, as I said, you would have gotten the same vet rewards whether you played 5 minutes a month or 5 hours a day. You would have gotten the same vet rewards whether you went everywhere on the Internet singing Cryptics praises or dragging their name through the mud. You would have gotten them whether you loved the game or hated it, whether you supported it or not.
Because the Veteran Rewards are not Veteran Rewards. They mark how much money you've invested through the subscription process. Nothing else.
So, as I said in the original post, it makes perfect sense to get all of them at once if you buy an LTS today. You paid, you should get what you paid for.
Here's the thing: lifers are not the only ones "hurt" there.
And any damage a lifer incurred is also eventually made up for.
I was in since pre-Beta, so let's figure out my break even point.
The game began as $15 a month.
I bought a LTS. I was required to buy a copy of the game when I purchased my LTS. (That changed later.)
So that's... $350, say. So that's 23 months for a payoff.
There are about ten months I would not have subscribed due to content lulls or frustration. The game was only pay to play until December 2011
The game had a sub fee for 25 months. But let's ignore 10 of those months where I wouldn't have subbed anyway.
So that's $15 months or a $225 value. Leaving $125 uncovered.
Stipends started in December 2011. I've gotten 10 of them. That's a $50 value.
That leaves $75 uncovered.
So either I'm paid off in another 15 months from stipend alone OR, y'know, maybe the vet ship, the ship token at 700 days, the Borg species, the Jupiter costume, the Mugato pet, and the big bundle of account services are worth at least $75 to me, given that their total retail value is probably over $300 when compared to what C-Store items cost. Cryptic could have sold those for that price. Would I have bought all of them? Probably not. Probably would have gotten the hull texture, playable Borg, the Mugato, the Jupiter variant costumes, and maybe both the Fed and Klingon ships.
So even with that $75 accounting for time I probably wouldn't have played that hasn't been reimbursed yet, I probably have been reimbursed with extras.
And even if you NEVER would have subbed to the game for a month and the vet rewards are meaningless to you, you eventually get back the cost of subbing in store credit via the stipend.
Lifers have it good compared to monthly players.
And let's look at this:
What a lot of us (and I've been there) are saying is that we feel like we shouldn't pay when there's no content and deserve a refund when there's none. When from Cryptic's perspective, the content is never really what they were charging for and a lack of it doesn't mean a refund is due.
The only way that works, really, would be if Cryptic inverted its F2P model. Ships and costumes free. Content costs money.
I kinda wish they'd done that because it would put the thrust of development behind quality and quantity of content... instead of selling virtual items that the player doesn't own.
And I think a lot of us have gotten into the (false) mentality that when we buy those things or even when we subbed that we were subsidizing content. When it was never viewed that way internally except by a few devs like Stahl and Heinig.
I can point out times even under Atari where Stahl said it was hard to financially justify content because Atari couldn't see a metric for the money it made. PWE values it more... But again, it's not the product in their eyes. It's a promotional tool.
Content will never be the product in a game that doesn't sell content.
It's something I'd like more MMO devs to keep an eye on as they discuss models of play.
That's a great post - and makes some good points. But for everything that a LTS has gotten us since F2P, you're forgetting what F2P has cost us.
And that's a Star Trek game with story-driven content.
With a complete Klingon faction.
With ships we don't have to pay for.
With only micro-transaction 'cosmetic' items in the C-Store.
PvP.
Exploration, diplomacy.
All these things were promised. And I paid up-front for effectively 20 months subscription on the basis that I had (misplaced) faith in Cryptic to deliver.
And here we are, 1000 days later and none of the promises were delivered upon. This game only exists as a playground to sell lockboxes in.
As you say, content is now used as a promotional tool and only just enough will be produced to get people to check in every once in a while. They're relying on the fact that your investment in the game (both financially and time) will keep you returning.
And I'm OK with that - it's not what I wanted, not what I hoped for but hey - I still find things to do, I still have friends in game I like to hang out with.
But Cryptic failed the fans and they failed the IP. And for all those who were rooting for this game back then and dug into their pockets to show their support, this was Cryptic's final chance to show their appreciation.
And they blew it.
Now - everyone's entitled to an opinion, and whether people can see where I'm coming from or not, that's cool - I'm not here to start any arguments.
Maybe I'm an idealist, but I believe in things like respect, and loyalty - from their mishandling of this whole situation (and their complete silence in the matter), the only conclusion I can come to is that Cryptic doesn't.
More fool me.
Just FYI - If you bought the LTS during the 2009n Open beta when it was first offered (like I did) - the cost was $240 (But we still had to buy the $60 box - so it pretty much equals the post F2P LTS cost today.)
As to the topic of this thread, I fail to understand the outrage felt by older LTS folks (and BTW, I hit 1000 days this past Wednesday, so yeah, I also am one of the earliest LTS adoptors.)
How does this deal affect your gameplay in a negative fashion? Is it really because you wanted to fly around thinnking somehow other players envy you because you have a rare item that not many others will have (which would have been the situation had they not done this deal.)
^^^
If that's the case, I'd say it reflectrs more poorly onb the players with that attitude; then it does on Cryptic. Why? Because in the end, all you (and I) did was pay out LTS luimp sum of cash earlier than anyone else. Wed didn't do any particularly hard content or Raid form a really hard boss to get this rare item -- we just paid earlier than others.
As for those who feel 'devalued' by Cryptic -- Realize this: 18 months after we early apopters paid our LTS fee; Cryptic was loosing money on us - as we were no longer paying a sub, but had full access to perks and continued Vet reward unlocks. ost F2P, we're getting $5.00 a month in ingame cash so if we don't want to, we NEVER need to use real case for MTs again (and FYI - when STO was a sub based game - in addition to my LTS, over the first year and a half, I spent about another $160 in the C-Store. Post F2p, I heven't had to spend a real worls duime as, I'm patient, and via the Dilitium exchange and my stipend; have gottent the Ody 3 pack - The Armitage - Thne Regent - The Thunderchild - The Belfast interior -- and the San Paulo <---- All without spending a cent.)
In effect Cryptic hasn't made a dime off me since May of 2011 - yet I have all the Vet poerks, and to date all the ships I like.
As long as I get tenh Vet Rewards promised, I could care less what others have. In fact, since I can only use these items in the game in online, and the game will stay online only as long as it pulls in enough profit to satisfy the upper management and investors or Cryptic/PWE - I for one am happy Cryptic marketing made a decision that really costs Cryptic nothing extra, entices more players to pay to play; and in effvect makes those new players happy with their purchase. It means the game will stay online longer and I can continue to enjoy doing what I do in it tlo relax.
I ask you, how is that a bad move for you, me, or Cryptic? Even at CBS, 'Star Trek' is a property they own; and they leverage it to make a profit. When they can no longer do that with the Star Trek items they offer (be it the Blu-Rays and DVDs, a new TV show that brings them ad revenue, or any other Star Trek related intem for public consumption, including this MMO); hyou will no longer see anything 'Star Trek' related made for publuc consumption. No one is doing 'Star Trek' as a public service to somehow promote GR's 'vision' (Hell, not even GR himself, as from day one, he was most interested in what he could make off the show as well, but that's another topic <--- Yet it's true.)
As long as you get the Vet Rewards you were promised - Cryptic hasn't cheated you out of anything, or 'devalued' anything as you can't trade your Vet Rewards to other players in or out of the game - the only 'value' is your ability to acces and make use of the rewards; which you have.
In the end, if any early LTSer's feel gipped - (IMO) - it can only be because you wanted to fly around in something not many other players had access to yet - and 'show it off' to other players
Seriously, how 'true' to 'Star Trek's vision' is that?
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
It's all a matter of perspective.
If you read the descriptions of the vet ships you'll see they refer to them being '1000-day veteran' ships - all along these were intended (right up until the last minute) very specifically as rewards for 1000-day veterans.
At the last minute somebody decided to monetize them (as they have pretty much every last aspect of this game).
Those LTS players that had months to go to get their ships got a nice surprise and I'm happy for them.
But Cryptic didn't do this for them. It certainly didn't do it for the 1000-day vets. It did it to make a fast buck. And I find that distasteful - if you think that's just good business sense then fine. I don't - and I won't be supporting them with my money any more as a result.