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Heal boat Cruisers are about to fail! Borticus and other devs please read!!!

the4monkeysthe4monkeys Member Posts: 172 Arc User
edited October 2012 in PvP Gameplay
In regards to the test server tribble notes you guys are going to TRIBBLE up the emergency powers and TRIBBLE over engineers in there only good ship the cruiser from these notes:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=410311


I added two example of failure in your test team:

From a PVE point of view:
I just activated emergency power to shields, TRIBBLE I go a negvah canon rapid firing my TRIBBLE, TRIBBLE my shields gone (I dont know how to distribute shields yes im that noob I still use boarding party 3 as main attack) oh wait I know ill use my Reverse Shield Polarity 2....... TRIBBLE its on cooldown for 2 mins but I havent used it yet! Wait before the last patch I could save my bacon and live for 30 seconds more!

Good going cryptic i'll wait 6 months for a fix, but for now i'll leave the game and not buy lock box keys until fixed.


From a pvp point of view:

ok one thing you guys are forgetting to mention is if your running your shield power at 75 then buff it with emergency power to shields 2 gives you roughly 115 power

extends 3 runs off your shield power creating higher resistance

so at 115 shield power the extends has say 45 resist bonus to target - currenty on holodeck

where at power level 75 its 35 - this is currently what you get with tribble patch server details.

where does this help healers when under attack?

the new extends doff gives 20% resist against energy atacks while extending which will get nerfed soon.

Cryptic think about what your doing here! your going to make healers become squishy. when they already are squishy from that escourts with 5 tac consoles.

PUT THE EMERGENCY POWER TO SHIELDS TO THE SAME GLOBAL COOL DOWN AS OTHER EMERGENCY POWERS!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by the4monkeys on
«1345

Comments

  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    PUT THE EMERGENCY POWER TO SHIELDS TO THE SAME GLOBAL COOL DOWN AS OTHER EMERGENCY POWERS!

    oh it shares that cooldown group too still. so whenever someone uses rsp, just wait till it ends and you will have a target with TRIBBLE poor shield resistance. and if you see anybody using extends, you can guaranty that they have TRIBBLE poor shield resistance too. those skills are now completely unusable, damage and spike is to strong to not run EPtS up at all times
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I for one am quite happy...

    Killing a heal-cruiser has always been close to impossible.

    Killing someone with Extend on him has also been almost impossible.

    Now at least Using Extend comes at a price. You make someone else invincible at the cost of your one immortality. (unless you time it carefully)

    It ofc depends on the length of the shared CD, but I imagine it's 15 second, if it's linked to the GCD of EPtoS. In wich case, the healer just has to hit EPtoS exactly 15 seconds before using Extend, and everything will be just fine.

    Then this change just reduces the number of different EPtoXs that can be cycled in combination with running Extend.
  • totallyrolledtotallyrolled Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    LOL Rsp noobs here I come. This I love. As far as the sci changes go being able to stack polarize hull and hazard emitters may be a good change dmg resist will stack plus you can heal and break tractors for those who can't carry apo. The sci skill tree changes might make sci/sci ships more useful again.
  • psonixpsonix Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If your running a premade that is doing nothing but extending each other matches can go on for hours. Not that anyone does premade matches anymore. Regardless teams running multiple copies of extends are going to have to use a lot more discretion on when to heal and whom to heal and if they come under fire if those heals will be reciprocated. I have gone into matches against multiple cruisers that just cross extends. Not only that they were running multiple copies of extends per cruiser. There needs to be a mechanic in the game where you take on a liability for doing something like this.
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Seriously how about you just delete eng toons from game. WTF???Thanks for the testing period and feedback, we feel really appreciated here.

    Will Dmg *something* doffs, get a proc roll when activating RSP now to, or is EptS now no longer effected by it?

    Also since everybody has now access to poor mans RSP aka Tac Team, Miracle Worker via temp set, nadeon and SNB via doffs,
    how about giving aceton a poor mans APA?

    If you want to reduce healing TacTeam, Assim Set, BFI doffs are the culprits, Eng/cruisers are laughable as they are.

  • sandormen123sandormen123 Member Posts: 862 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Lord have mercy on me.
    Been an Engie, and only one character since I joined. (Only since may, but still).
    I am definitly in the category of newb and leisurely player. I am split between what is being said here. At first glance it looks like they'll make the engie squishy. I am not to sure.
    I believe that it is a 'patch' that has done some rework on how a support must play to survive. So far the engie wether it is ground or space, could run and gun, blazing lazzors or cannons spamhitting the subroutines and stay on top. The Tac's? Pfah, they're more squishy in my opinion. Yes, they might be a tad more DPS-rich in dealing damage, but that is all. I welcome a new challenge in the way of playing the game. Always. ;)
    /Floozy
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    havam wrote: »
    Seriously how about you just delete eng toons from game. WTF???Thanks for the testing period and feedback, we feel really appreciated here.


    Hmm... a reduction to healing and emergency power BOFF abilities should make the engineer better, not worse, as he is the one that can do just this on his own. It's the sci's and tacs that will suffer most, having the boff skills they're dependant on pulled from under their feet.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I like the idea of putting RSP on shared CD with EPTS, I see way to much people using that ability all the time very annoying. I prefer more hull heals and resists anyway so won't miss it.
    Putting extend shields on shared cd with EPTS is bad though, it is the main thing the makes a cruiser useful to a team and now can't be used safely. Why even bother using a heal cruiser if they do that might as well all be in escorts.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
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  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have nothing against giving heals some sort of penalty for using them. But only when it comes with the penalty for using masive peak damage abilities. After this patch it will looks so:

    - eng/cruisers are primarly healers (secondary tanks). So they got penalty for using primary healing/buffing abilities and this is making them quite useless.
    - tac/escorts (all/escorts) are primary damage dealers (secondary tanks). So they go NO penalty for using damage buffs. They still can tank pretty well even when doing peak damage.

    So what the hell is the reason to run an eng/cruiser? If you are joinging the EPtS/ES cooldowns, the do the same with AP:O and AP:A. Escort using attack patters should not be able to use shield buffing abilities. Period. Otherwise this game becomes less and less balanced and more and more Escorts Online.
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  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    And how good they are working now? DEM is not very good with beams as far as I know and Aceton Field never worked for me. At all. Not with 90 deg arc on cruiser.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    What i am asking myself is, now that they (the devs) clearly don't want cruisers to be healboats (which i find a good idea in general), but what do they give Cruisers in exchange?


    Do they plan to give us RCS consoles with FLAT bonus?

    Do they plan to release Heavy Beam (boardside) arrays for cruisers only?

    Do they plan to give Crusiers in a Lt. universal BOFF?

    Do they plan ANYTHING to increase Crusiers firepower?

    Do they plan to increase some Cruisers Tac Consoles +1?

    Do they plan ANYTHING to increase the usefulness or versatility of cruisers?

    Do they plan to increase Cruisers turnrate +2?

    Do they plan to buff science ships and science Powers?

    Do they plan to buff offensive Engineering powers?

    Do they plan to give us (science and cruiser captains) ANY compensation for making escorts the only really useable ships in "their" Star Trek game?

    ...


    ...


    No? :eek:


    Why should we continue to take them for serious anymore?
    Their goal clearly isn't to make a good Star Trek game, what they obviously really want is to fulfill their wet Escort-fanboy dreams. Nothing else.


    I won't watch their policy of Escort fanboyism for much longer.


    I'm sorry but i am really angry by now.


    Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are. ;)
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
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  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    And how good they are working now? DEM is not very good with beams as far as I know and Aceton Field never worked for me. At all. Not with 90 deg arc on cruiser.

    DEM is great if you combine it with Tac boost, and Cannons, it got even better with Doffs giving a free eng cpt power (nadeon) to whoever uses it. Clearly an engskill to be used on cruisers with beams....*insert favorite insult to the intelligence of the systems team*
  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Hopefully sci ships can try healing now.

    Also, I find that this means tanks really "tank" with 2xEPtS, where's heal cruisers can heal, just that they can't tank at the same time. Looks like a return to the old trinity has happened...

    ...until the tacs just tank in their escorts too.


    "Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.

    Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!

    Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
  • fakehilbertfakehilbert Member Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If Cryptic wanted to restore cruisers' damage dealing ability, all they would have to do is fix the FAW [acc] bug. But that's apparently not even on their to-do list.
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  • deadspacex64deadspacex64 Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    devs have very specific goals in mind
    1) everyone must fly an escort
    2) healboats are failboats
    3) if it ain't broke, break it
    4) same as 3 above with game mechanics.
    5) devs are always right
    6) devs don't need to look at all the ramifications, play test, or QA...much less listen to players input. because of (5) above.

    and here's a logic flash for ya devs
    emergency power to aux should start a cd on any aux to TRIBBLE skill, as well as any skill that uses aux as it's primary subsystem and EPS Power Transfer should start cd's or get a cd from any other aux to TRIBBLE or emergency power to TRIBBLE skill.

    if you're going to nerf at least use some logic. why not just get rid of the engineering class entirely? that would simplify things even further for ya.

    all i've seen is a continual push for everyone to fly escorts, nerfs, glitches, and promotions to buy keys. logic? common sense? forethought? oh, right, forgot rule #5 above:rolleyes:

    glad credits are included now actually, i can see who to avoid in future games.
    Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
    Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If Cryptic wanted to restore cruisers' damage dealing ability, all they would have to do is fix the FAW [acc] bug. But that's apparently not even on their to-do list.

    too many lines of codes, the other ones were shorter ;)
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    They did in this patch... slightly.
    Do you mean this?
    • The shared cooldown between Directed Energy Modulation and Aceton Field has been removed.

    Whats the point of using two useless Eng. powers combined?
    (that's a rhetorical question, btw)

    ...

    glad credits are included now actually, i can see who to avoid in future games.
    where?

    Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are. ;)
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • deadspacex64deadspacex64 Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    yreodred wrote: »
    Do you mean this?
    • The shared cooldown between Directed Energy Modulation and Aceton Field has been removed.

    Whats the point of using two useless Eng. powers combined?
    (that's a rhetorical question, btw)



    where?

    Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are. ;)

    in game, they added it a few patches ago (it was apparently vitally important to them). think there's one on character select and elsewhere in game, option menu maybe.
    Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
    Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
  • captainbmoneycaptainbmoney Member Posts: 1,323 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Cruiser Captains feel useless now. I'm pissed. so I'm flying a Science Ship now...

    Like my fanpage!
    https://www.facebook.com/CaptainBMoney913
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  • grylakgrylak Member Posts: 1,594 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Forgive me if this sounds stupid, but Engineers are listed as support type. And are intended for cruisers. Cruisers are intended as Tankers. So this suggests the intended play style of engineers is to fly around in tanks, which means they are difficult to take down thanks to their shield/hull fixing abilities, and they provide SUPPORT to other players, by throwing shield extend, engineering teams and things like warp plasma to cause problems for enemies. While the downside is, they don't have such a high power output as Sci/Tac.


    So, you are basically reducing their ability to SUPPORT the other players on the team? Which takes away the whole point of that class. If people wanted to go around shooting everything point blank, they would fly tacs. Not everyone wants to be in the thick of things. There are those of us who like the supporting roles.



    And while I'm at it, extend shields was much nicer looking (and more sensical) when it was a beam fired at the target, not some wierd red blob that gets shot out randomly.
    *******************************************

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  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    grylak wrote: »
    Forgive me if this sounds stupid, but Engineers are listed as support type. And are intended for cruisers. Cruisers are intended as Tankers. So this suggests the intended play style of engineers is to fly around in tanks, which means they are difficult to take down thanks to their shield/hull fixing abilities, and they provide SUPPORT to other players, by throwing shield extend, engineering teams and things like warp plasma to cause problems for enemies. While the downside is, they don't have such a high power output as Sci/Tac.


    So, you are basically reducing their ability to SUPPORT the other players on the team? Which takes away the whole point of that class. If people wanted to go around shooting everything point blank, they would fly tacs. Not everyone wants to be in the thick of things. There are those of us who like the supporting roles.



    And while I'm at it, extend shields was much nicer looking (and more sensical) when it was a beam fired at the target, not some wierd red blob that gets shot out randomly.
    No, cruisers never where pure "tanks" not in "real" star Trek.
    Cryptic made them the classic MMO tank, which was completely wrong in the first place. Big Starships (even the klingon ones, to a certain extend) in Star Trek are Multi Role ships. What Cryptic missed is to give cruisers more Firepower or other utility.

    Your CAREER choice determines (to a certain extend) if you prefer to do damage, Tank or Wizard stuff.
    The combination with your ship can enhance your career choice or give you another combination.
    But most of all, your PLAYSTYLE determines what role you want to fill.

    For more information:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=400561


    Thank you for reading or ignoring, depending on who you are. ;)
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    yreodred wrote: »
    No, cruisers never where pure "tanks" not in "real" star Trek.

    In real Treak, Cruiser were the go-anywhere-do-anything ship. They did not excel at anything except one thing. An escort did better damage, a sciship gave better support and manipulated anomalies better and the cruiser... well, it could take a beating like nothing else.

    So a real Trek cruiser should be ok at everything, but best only at surviving. Kind of a mulit-purpose-tank.

    I think they're pretty close to that now.

    (Disclaimer: By "real Trek", i look at it in the context of progressing time. Sure, Archer or Kirks Enterprise were not tanks, but as the years went on, the Cruisers kept getting bigger, heavier and tankier.)
  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Nonono... This simply means the tanks stop healing themselves. The tank engcruisers stay tank, but need another person to come heal them, who become squishier themselves.

    So this is a PVP nerf and a PVE revamp, as we now need to bring a dedicated healer. This is a good thing.

    But the pve queues don't support tank, heal, dps slots like another game does. THIS is bad, and must be fixed along with the above nerfs, or no one will be able to finish eSTFs now.


    "Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.

    Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!

    Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
  • ludikroludikro Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I for one think this is a good thing, and frankly its pretty telling about most people's builds that this one single change is suddenly the end of the world. If this one skill change makes your ship so much more fragile, then it wasn't a very good build in the first place was it?

    Personally I chain EPTS and TSS to keep the shields up, so this change doesn't affect me in the slightest. It will also make most escorts out there a lot more squishy and this is a good thing. So what if cruisers cannot heal themselves and their teammates at the same time? If the healboat is under fire, then the other team mates aren't getting shot at and thus the healboat no longer needs to heal them. Tactics people.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    ludikro wrote: »
    I for one think this is a good thing, and frankly its pretty telling about most people's builds that this one single change is suddenly the end of the world.

    ^^This!

    If a whole build hinges on one skill, something is already horribly wrong!
  • dant158#3249 dant158 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    ^^This!

    If a whole build hinges on one skill, something is already horribly wrong!

    2x EPTS is necessary because of the other imbalanced things in the game. Chicken or egg case, of course. But you can't just suddenly take away the 'must have' if the 'why you must have' is still there.

    Especially with so little testing. These notes weren't on tribble when i went to bed last night. I pop on the forums in my lunch break the next day and they've been on tribble and are already live.
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