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Vicious Varanus

purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
edited October 2012 in Klingon Discussion
I went back ten pages, and not one Varanus thread. So I figured I would start one, asking for a little help. Now as a Gorn I fly a Gorn ship, However my Gorn is a tac captain, which raises some issues.

My basic premise at the moment is Some high tier science attack powers (Gravity well pimped to the max) and a number of lower tier Hull and shield heals. Weapons power is run at minimum, so Aux can be set to maximum.
For weapons I run with 6x PLasma torpedo's. The logic is with those I don't need to worry about weapon power, and the plasma fire gets around the enemy shields. In my previous science ship builds getting enough power to all the systems was always a pain.

But here is the issue I have. While I can kill things reasonably well, some times it takes a little longer than I'd like. To give an example, I'll use an STF (the one with the three spawn points attacking the Krang)
The BOP's I can deal with just fine. The Raptors one might get past me, but die abut 2Km past my ship, and the Neg'vah's I got no chance of stopping both, maybe one, if
the gravity well aftershock proc fires nicely.

So I'm wondering How I can up my punch. Any ideas?
I did think about losing my two torpedo spreads (set everything on fire!) for attack pattens and use Hagh'peng torps x6.

Part of the issue seems to be the ineffectivenss of fully pimped science powers. a Tachyon beam III or Charged particle burst III will only knock a targets shields down to 50%. I suppose a full cannon/Turret/1x photon torp build with lots of shield and hull heals, and all power to weaposns could work

So any ideas?
Thanks.
Post edited by purvee1 on

Comments

  • tetonicatetonica Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Have you thought about doing some kind of power drain build with something like 2 torps and a DBB front, or 3 torps but personally I'd go with the dbb for inherent subsystem target bonus, and 3x turrets rear?

    There's a thread around that goes into full detail about specific builds. It just seems to me that trying to go conventional dps route with a sci ship with just a lt tac boff is akin to forcing a square peg into a round hole.
    Lynis, Orion Engineer, main
    Rrezeth, Gorn Tactical, primary alt
    Nari, Orion Science, secondary alt
  • relizarrarasrelizarraras Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    This is my build, but with a science captain.

    For weapons:
    front: polaron beam array, photon torpedo, transphasic torpedo
    rear: polaron beam array, plasma torpedo, hargh'peng torpedo

    For deflector, shields and engines i'm still using non set items.
    Deflector with flow capacitor and particle generator bonuses.

    Consoles:
    Eng: rcs accelerator - neutronium alloy - plasmonic leech
    sci: borg console - particle generator - flow capacitor x2 (or flow capacitor and rule 62 console)
    tac: warhead yield chamber x2

    I use 2 projectile weapons doffs and 3 technicians. Or 3 and 2 depending on the situation.

    The beam arrays are for target subsystems and leech.
    The different type of torpedoes don't share cool-downs, just the one second in between each launch. I can fire the front torpedoes, turn around and fire the other two. And when the projectile doffs proc I can fire a photon almost every second, that's why I use them in front.

    The technicians doffs are for aux to battery. 30% lower cool-down on boff abilities with 3 purple quality doffs.

    Tractor beam repulsors for cubes when their shield are down or when aux to battery takes me down to 5 auxiliary power. Very little repulsion, lots of kinetic damage.

    I find it is a very good drain build with a lot of kinetic damage. Great for team play, not so much for soloing.

    At least I like it.
  • banzaizapbanzaizap Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Well, if you're planning on a GravWell, maybe Transphasic torps may serve better. Since a recent patch, close to 80% of the damage is getting past shields, so their shields is no longer an issue. If you went for a Drain build with Tyken's Rifts, then their shields would be dropping enough that harder hitting torps would be more effective. For me, plasma's proc just doesn't hit/damage enough to be reliable for heavy targets (like those Neghvars), and I hate letting my target shoot down my torpedos!
  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    banzaizap wrote: »
    Well, if you're planning on a GravWell, maybe Transphasic torps may serve better. Since a recent patch, close to 80% of the damage is getting past shields, so their shields is no longer an issue. If you went for a Drain build with Tyken's Rifts, then their shields would be dropping enough that harder hitting torps would be more effective. For me, plasma's proc just doesn't hit/damage enough to be reliable for heavy targets (like those Neghvars), and I hate letting my target shoot down my torpedos!

    I'd missed the buff to Transphasics. However he 80% is only to mines, Torpedo's are at 40%. None to shaby. Depends on the numbers for my Torpedo's in burn rate, but might be worth a switch, I'll hae to have a look when I get home
    1x Mad idea: 3x Cannons up front 3X Transphasic mines in the rear. Straffing run with gravity well and then a cloud of Transphasic mines...
  • nastyhyenanastyhyena Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If you're going to do that, how about 2 transphasic mines and the cluster torp? The cluster is on a different cooldown from the mines, and at point blank you're assured to get it to deploy the full net. Then you can just use a dispersion pattern on one of the mines.
  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    nastyhyena wrote: »
    If you're going to do that, how about 2 transphasic mines and the cluster torp? The cluster is on a different cooldown from the mines, and at point blank you're assured to get it to deploy the full net. Then you can just use a dispersion pattern on one of the mines.

    Apparetly the Cluster torp mines are not at 80% bleed through. But that said 3x Cluster torps and 3x Mine launchers could be funny.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'd throw least one dbb in there to use sst, if you want to use a torp/mine build...personally I'd throw some heavy hitting longer cd torps/mines on the rear.

    Perhaps a plasma mine, transphasic cluster torp, and hargh'peng for a little bit extra aoe. disruptor dbb for the proc (I know it won't proc often but still a good proc for your build) and sst. Some torpedo doffs so you can rapid fire the forward plasma torps.
  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    lianthelia wrote: »
    I'd throw least one dbb in there to use sst, if you want to use a torp/mine build...personally I'd throw some heavy hitting longer cd torps/mines on the rear.

    Perhaps a plasma mine, transphasic cluster torp, and hargh'peng for a little bit extra aoe. disruptor dbb for the proc (I know it won't proc often but still a good proc for your build) and sst. Some torpedo doffs so you can rapid fire the forward plasma torps.

    Isn't that going to have a really weird firing cycle? With a very low output of torps? I mean I've normally got 5-6 in the air at once.
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Yes. And most of them will be useless against shields. You need beam weapons to wear down the target. Even with grav well. Grav well, TY, etc, only "help" finish the target off. They won't be your primary damage-dealing abilities. You WILL need to rely on energy weapons.

    I tried the 1-beam-from, 1-beam-rear, rest-mixed-warheads and it was utterly pathetic even against AI NPCs. You'll end up using TR and GW 3 or 4 times each before you finish off one medium level ship. Been there, done that, moved on to better setups.
  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Been there, done that, moved on to better setups.

    Like?

    Oh for those advising Transphasics,. The Unbuffed Plasma's do slightly more damage than the Buffed Transphasics. And it makes more sense to do Plasma's as it gives me more console slots for special ability consoles.

    Thanks for the ideas so far though!
  • aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I've noticed that torpedo spread splashes, and affects nearby targets even if they didn't receive their own cluster of torps. I've been using this to great effect with my Orb Weaver (I only gave up on the Varanus for now because I run STF's a lot, and the lack of a third tactical power really hurts, since STF's force you to run at least one tactical team...here's hoping for a Fleet Varanus that addresses this).

    My suggestion:
    Plasma torpedo in the front, and a damage console for them. Use spread 1 and 2, along with gravity well 2 and 3. Fit a couple graviton generator consoles to ensure that your targets stay tightly grouped. Then spam torpedo spreads at them. They'll take the kinetic blasts from each others' salvoes along with their own, and the DOT will help with extra hull damage.

    If you're looking for a PVP build, that's a different story. I used to run my Varanus quite successfully in PVP (more kills than deaths, decent healing, tons of Ewar, and a lot of damage for a science ship), but I got tired of PVP when it got silly.
  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    aethon3050 wrote: »
    I've noticed that torpedo spread splashes, and affects nearby targets even if they didn't receive their own cluster of torps. I've been using this to great effect with my Orb Weaver (I only gave up on the Varanus for now because I run STF's a lot, and the lack of a third tactical power really hurts, since STF's force you to run at least one tactical team...here's hoping for a Fleet Varanus that addresses this).

    My suggestion:
    Plasma torpedo in the front, and a damage console for them. Use spread 1 and 2, along with gravity well 2 and 3. Fit a couple graviton generator consoles to ensure that your targets stay tightly grouped. Then spam torpedo spreads at them. They'll take the kinetic blasts from each others' salvoes along with their own, and the DOT will help with extra hull damage.

    If you're looking for a PVP build, that's a different story. I used to run my Varanus quite successfully in PVP (more kills than deaths, decent healing, tons of Ewar, and a lot of damage for a science ship), but I got tired of PVP when it got silly.

    That build is exactly what I do do, only I've got universal consoles in he tactical slots
    Although I've switched out the Graity well I for a Tractor beam 3. That along with tachyon beam tends to drop a shield facing

    I suppose the only way I'm going to get more DPS is to loose some of the shield buff consoles for more power buffing consoles, and drop two of the universal consoles for more Tactical ones

    Ok here's a stupid question, is there anyway to buff hte plasma fire burn? As that seems to be my main damage dealer. Will plasma consoles do that?
  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    In answer to my own question, the Plasma buff console adds to the plasma burn effect.
    I guess I'll have to run a few more tests to see if I can buff the burn rate even further. I hope to god weapon power dosen't. The entire idea of this build was to minimise the need for weapon power.
  • aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    purvee1 wrote: »
    In answer to my own question, the Plasma buff console adds to the plasma burn effect.
    I guess I'll have to run a few more tests to see if I can buff the burn rate even further. I hope to god weapon power dosen't. The entire idea of this build was to minimise the need for weapon power.

    I've done some testing on this; weapon power setting doesn't affect the burn time OR damage, just the plasma energy weapon damage. The Plasma Infuser consoles did increase the damage done per second by the burn, but not its duration, during my testing, but the Plasma Envelope only increased the kinetic damage of the torpedoes themselves.
  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    aethon3050 wrote: »
    I've done some testing on this; weapon power setting doesn't affect the burn time OR damage, just the plasma energy weapon damage. The Plasma Infuser consoles did increase the damage done per second by the burn, but not its duration, during my testing, but the Plasma Envelope only increased the kinetic damage of the torpedoes themselves.

    Then something has changed. When I stuck two Plasma envolopes on there last night my Burn damage went from 1500 to ~1700 over X seconds

    I did notice on the reman set that it gives +15 to particle genrators on the prototype plasma projectile ability, so one other thing I'm going to test is if that alters the Burn.

    Thanks for giving me someone to bounce ideas off.
  • aethon3050aethon3050 Member Posts: 599 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Interesting; my testing was several months ago. Going over the patch notes, I didn't see any changes to that. Something definitely has changed, though...good idea with testing Particle Generators, though; I wouldn't have even thought of that.

    It makes sense that the Envelope consoles actually help the burn, though; it was so confusing before, lol.

    Also, recently, I heard someone in chat mentioning that the Starship Weapons and Starship Energy Weapons skills help the burn, although they didn't specify if this was duration, damage, or both.
  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    aethon3050 wrote: »
    Also, recently, I heard someone in chat mentioning that the Starship Weapons and Starship Energy Weapons skills help the burn, although they didn't specify if this was duration, damage, or both.

    Thanks, I have long history of abusing game systems and working out how things work

    As to those skills, Issue I see is that you can't tell without burning a pair of respects, and despite being a lifer I don't have that many flying about.
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I was curious if any type of plasma console effects the burn from Eject Warp Plasma as well....
  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I was curious if any type of plasma console effects the burn from Eject Warp Plasma as well....

    Dunno, go forth and test. :cool:

    As to the particle genrators. No they don't have any effect on the Plasma burn. But I suspect they might on high yeild Plasma torps. But as I don't use HY plasma torps you
    re on your own investigating that one.

    However we appear to have gotten side tracked. Any more thoughts on the Varnaus?
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