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Anyone else feel let down by the Fleet Weapons?

naldorannaldoran Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited October 2012 in PvP Gameplay
When it comes to PvP, the [acc] modifier is king as we all know. Looking at the existing Advanced Fleet weapons, as well as dev hints regarding the Elite ones, they've all got pretty mediocre [dmg]x3 modifiers, i.e. the worst weapon modifier in the game when it comes to DPS. A single [acc] modifier is the best available; is this enough?

My question for the community is whether those who've used the Fleet weapons in PvP have found them to be effective and worthwhile, or just a waste of dilithium when it comes to PvP damage.

Borticus, if you read this: any chance we could get some consideration when it comes to the Elite Fleet weapon modifiers, perhaps introducing extra versions aimed specifically at the PvP crowd? I think that [acc]x2 or x3 weapons made easily available in fleet stores, rather than for hideous amounts of EC would do a lot of good when it comes to making PvP accessible to a wider audience. Seeing as no fleet has yet unlocked them, such could be added to the store with zero in-game disruption. ;)
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Post edited by naldoran on

Comments

  • webdeathwebdeath Member Posts: 1,570 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Should I probobly read the entire thread? Sure. How ever the question asked in the topic is actually a question I have a quick and easy answer to:

    Yes.

    I was hoping the Fleet weapons would have been something more special then Dmg x3 + other. I thought we'd get something maybe like Acc x2 + crtX + dmg Which would have been more interesting. Oh well. At least they are helpful to Plasma Torpedoes. :D
    You think that your beta test was bad?
    Think about this:
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  • hurleybirdhurleybird Member Posts: 909
    edited October 2012
    I don't know about [acc]x3, but [acc]x2 certainly.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited October 2012
    naldoran wrote: »
    When it comes to PvP, the [acc] modifier is king as we all know. Looking at the existing Advanced Fleet weapons, as well as dev hints regarding the Elite ones, they've all got pretty mediocre [dmg]x3 modifiers, i.e. the worst weapon modifier in the game when it comes to DPS. A single [acc] modifier is the best available; is this enough?

    My question for the community is whether those who've used the Fleet weapons in PvP have found them to be effective and worthwhile, or just a waste of dilithium when it comes to PvP damage.

    Borticus, if you read this: any chance we could get some consideration when it comes to the Elite Fleet weapon modifiers, perhaps introducing extra versions aimed specifically at the PvP crowd? I think that [acc]x2 or x3 weapons made easily available in fleet stores, rather than for hideous amounts of EC would do a lot of good when it comes to making PvP accessible to a wider audience. Seeing as no fleet has yet unlocked them, such could be added to the store with zero in-game disruption. ;)
    I thought [critd] was the king, for DHCs, that is.

    My fleet mate has been using the Fleet weapons. We've convinced him to change up his weapons, as he felt he wasn't doing enough damage as a tactical.
  • hurleybirdhurleybird Member Posts: 909
    edited October 2012
    shookyang wrote: »
    I thought [critd] was the king, for DHCs, that is.

    Acc > CritH >> CritD >> Dam

    Sometimes CritH is better than Acc though, like with tric mines.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    acc is king unless you can control movement, then ether crith or critd is king

    acc weapon are nice though, just shoot them and they almost always hit. on my ktinga thats so maneuverable that it can put plasma exactly were i want it very frequently, and the very handy tractor beam, i use my old [crith] [critd]2 antiprotons for huge crit effect. even got that new chrono console too. its got even more damage potential sticking with that then my fleet vorcha with [acc]2&3
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I admit, Dmgx3 is a bit disappointing, but, it does keep things within reason. Same really applies for all the Advanced level gear. It's, from my pov, meant to keep things at a good, but rather generic, and even level.

    The elite level gear is what is going to be interesting. We know what all the ground gear is now, so and as far as I personally have found out, we don't know what things elite space gear is going to bring to the table, because I've yet to hear of anybody publicly saying that they have tier 4 engineering or science yet. Let alone tier 5 engineering for fleet elite space weapons.

    Most likely, it'll be Dmg x2, one other modifier (acc, crtd, crth), and then a new space modifier, adding in a new special proc, probably only will have phasers and disruptors.

    Space shields will be Cap x2, another modifier, and also a new modifier.

    Space deflectors...no clue yet, they're set up differently.

    Space engines, One of full/turn/spd x2, one modifier, and probably some new modifier or something like that, along with probably the MACO water bubble in space.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • edited October 2012
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  • aldo1rainealdo1raine Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Oh come on, DMG is the best modified, is just needs to be DMGx10 like the plasma hybrids were.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I feel let down, it has been months and the weapons I use either are not in the store like transphasic mines, have useless mods on like DMG which for mines does nothing, no extra damage. Fleet transphasic torpdeos are rubbish compared to easy to get Rapid Fire Transpshic torpdeos and DMG on torpedoes does not work with torpedo skills.
  • marctraiderzmarctraiderz Member Posts: 539 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    hurleybird wrote: »
    Acc > CritH >> CritD >> Dam

    Sometimes CritH is better than Acc though, like with tric mines.

    I'd say [acc] < [crtd] < [crth] < [dmg]

    :D
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    CritH and CritD swap places. You need a balance of both as one is not always better over the other.
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Ok, so what's the deal with the fleet tricobalt mines? They're [Dmg]x3, but the damage displayed on the tooltip reads out the same as one without any [Dmg] modifier. Do they actually do more damage on a regular hit than mines without [Dmg]?
  • johnyangelojohnyangelo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Im sure elite weapons will be usefull for pvp, but they are not meant to be new "best" sort of weapons for pvp.
  • pug02pug02 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Im sure elite weapons will be usefull for pvp, but they are not meant to be new "best" sort of weapons for pvp.

    Not if the ground ones are any indication. I believe the idea was for Elite Gear to be End Game Content. The Ground Elite gear is truly pathetic. Expect only to have 3 choices of weapon types, possibly not even Dual Heavy Cannons. Expect only Phaser and Disruptor weapons. Look for a [Dmg]x2 [DoNothingUseful] [DoNothingGreat] modifiers. This is what you can expect if the Ground Items are any indication.

    It smells of really sloppy work to me. But we shouldn't worry. The Lockboxes will bring us great new items. Lets open our wallets for the best items. :D
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    skurf wrote: »
    Ok, so what's the deal with the fleet tricobalt mines? They're [Dmg]x3, but the damage displayed on the tooltip reads out the same as one without any [Dmg] modifier. Do they actually do more damage on a regular hit than mines without [Dmg]?
    Fleet mines are broken and useless. DMG does not work on any mine. Just one of the many problems with fleet weapons.
  • pantsmaster916pantsmaster916 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Has anybody ever crunched the numbers on the actual DPS increase the Accuracy mods offer, instead of Dmg? I feel like they're intended to be 1:1 in most situations, but they're obviously not. So how wide does that variance swing?

    I admit, I'm a ***** for big numbers. Crit tends to fill that gap for me, but if ALL of my numbers were bigger (via Dmg mods), it'd just make my crits more crittier, right? How much bigger does a Dmg mod need to be, in order to compete with an Acc mod? Is it 2:1? 3:1?
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited October 2012
    hurleybird wrote: »
    Acc > CritH >> CritD >> Dam

    Sometimes CritH is better than Acc though, like with tric mines.
    That's not what I've found after testing acc and crith.

    My fleet mate equipped a single [acc]x3 turret and a single [crith]x3 turret.

    While the accuracy was better with accx3 (80% versus 60%), crithx3 had a higher DPS (160+ versus 150). This was with 500-750+ shots fired with no buffs.

    If you want more chances to proc, acc is good. But, if you want damage, crith is better.

    Also, while crithx3 gives most builds about 2x more chances to get a critical hit, critdx3 increases your critical severity by 130% (70% + the 60% passive critical severity, which should include the Assimilated Module), which is more than double the 60% critical severity you would get with just crithx3.
    Has anybody ever crunched the numbers on the actual DPS increase the Accuracy mods offer, instead of Dmg? I feel like they're intended to be 1:1 in most situations, but they're obviously not. So how wide does that variance swing?

    I admit, I'm a ***** for big numbers. Crit tends to fill that gap for me, but if ALL of my numbers were bigger (via Dmg mods), it'd just make my crits more crittier, right? How much bigger does a Dmg mod need to be, in order to compete with an Acc mod? Is it 2:1? 3:1?
    For numbers comparing [acc]x3 and [crith]x3 on a turret, see above reply.

    From my quick and dirty tests, the quad cannon is almost on par with my mk xi and xii phaser DHCs [critd]x3.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    so i was shooting npcs for the first time in weeks with my 4 [crtd]2 [crth] AP dhc, 99 to crit skill, borg console, temporal console, tractor beaming, and plasmaing ktinga and with all the tac buffs running i would get 3 or 4 crits in a row that dealt between 13K-10K damage, and turret shots that dealt over 2K against donotra and other imoble stf stuff. i was getting about as many crits as non crits, it was insane. even with no tac buffs running id regularly get 5k crits. this is definitely my favorite thing to fly right now

    some times in pvp so much is going on that i cant see the numbers flying by real well, but if i have some one imoblized and launch an attack like that against them, its no wonder they tend to die so quickly. need to hop back in my little somraw retro and see how much higher damage i can get it to deal.

    though i would imagine that a ship that cant slot several holds would proboly be better off with [acc]3, at least your contents damage would be high and reliable
  • beary666stobeary666sto Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Are we talking Fleet weapons, or Elite Fleet Weapons?

    Don't Elite Fleet Ground Weapons have extra procs?
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  • pug02pug02 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Are we talking Fleet weapons, or Elite Fleet Weapons?

    Don't Elite Fleet Ground Weapons have extra procs?

    The Elite Fleet Ground Weapons have [Dmg]x2 [CritX/DoT3/KB3] [SHeal\SDisrupt]
    The Advance Fleet Ground Weapons have [Dmg]x3 [CritX/DoT3/KB3]

    So for the elite weapons you give up a [Dmg] modifier for a [SHeal\SDisrupt].
    The SHeal on the fastest licks per second weapon will yield on average about a 5.8 shield heal per second. That is on a stun pistol. Don't expect the same result for any other weapon. I also like my weapons to kill, not to heal me. I carry Hypos for heals.

    The SDisrupt has a 15% chance to vaporize targets that are low on health. First issue is that its only available on slow weapons. Second issue is that by the time you get targets low on health, you are only one shot away from killing them in any case. And you would have been there sooner with the higher damage weapon to begin with.

    The worst gun types are represented, such as Blast Assault and Minigun. But no Compression pistol. The only weapon flavors you can choose from is Phaser and Disruptor.

    If this translates to the Elite Space Weapons:
    • Expect Torpedos that will have a 15% chance to one shot someone that is just about dead, but the Torpedos will otherwise do less damage.
    • Expect Dual Cannons that will have a 5% chance to give you a 100 shield heal.
    • Expect all the weapons to do less damage than the Advance weapons.
    • Expect Dual heavy cannons to be missing from the list.
    • Expect to only have a choice of Phaser and Disruptor weapon types.
    • Don't Expect to see [Acc] on the weapons.

    Since they pulled Fleet Elite Space Weapons, they might make changes. But if not, then the list above will probably be what we can expect. As I mentioned before. It smells of sloppy work.
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