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Need help with reskill

skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
edited September 2012 in PvP Gameplay
Hi, I'm back again with more questions- this time about the skill-tree. I plan on reskilling here shortly, and don't want to waste 500 zen on bad choices. Hopefully, y'all can help me out in that regard. It's odd though, because I was in a PvP the other day with who I believe is a regular at OPvP flying a Bug and doing quite well. I asked him for advice, but he said he wouldn't give me tips for my skill-tree because that was a secret. IMO, this is not a good way to help promote PvP in any game, especially when there are so many complaints about skill discrepancy in this particular game. Anyway, I digress...

I'm using a Bug for KDF myself with 4 Phased Tetryon DHC's and turrets. Turns out y'alls suggestion about using 4 DHC's was right :eek:, albeit not quite as fun or challenging as other setups. Anyway, I've completely botched my initial skill-tree so any help y'all could provide would be appreciated. Maybe someone has a link to a good Bug build at that site that has all the build options (sorry, I forget the url). If you need any additional info about my build, equipment, etc. just let me know.

edit:
Took trueprom3theus's advice and used the skill planner to show what I think would be good. Also, this is for a KDF toon.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=Entarra_0


edit 2:
General Equipment:
KHG shield, Borg deflector, Borg Engine, Subspace Field Modulator, Large Engine Batteries

Weapons:
4 Phased Tetryon DHC's [Acc]x2, 3 Phased Tetryon Turrets [Acc]x2

Consoles:
Tac.- 5 Tetryon Consoles
Sci.- 1 Field Generator
Eng.- 2 Neutronium Alloys, 1 RCS, 1 Borg Assimilated Console

Doffs:
3 Conn Attack Pattern Doffs, 2 Shield Brace for Impact Doffs
Post edited by skurf on

Comments

  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    skurf wrote: »
    Hi, I'm back again with more questions- this time about the skill-tree. I plan on reskilling here shortly, and don't want to waste 500 zen on bad choices. Hopefully, y'all can help me out in that regard. It's odd though, because I was in a PvP the other day with who I believe is a regular at OPvP flying a Bug and doing quite well. I asked him for advice, but he said he wouldn't give me tips for my skill-tree because that was a secret. IMO, this is not a good way to help promote PvP in any game, especially when there are so many complaints about skill discrepancy in this particular game. Anyway, I digress...

    I'm using a Bug myself with 4 Phased Tetryon DHC's and turrets. Turns out y'alls suggestion about using 4 DHC's was right :eek:, albeit not quite as fun or challenging as other setups. Anyway, I've completely botched my initial skill-tree so any help y'all could provide would be appreciated. Maybe someone has a link to a good Bug build at that site that has all the build options (sorry, I forget the url). If you need any additional info about my build, equipment, etc. just let me know.

    Start here:

    http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/

    Post your build that you think it's best, then save it and link it to your original post (easier for we all to see it this way) and I'm pretty sure we can come up with some ideas. Especially naz, Cpt h, yoda, strike and other great bug pilots.

    I don't know if you are willing to do this, I would import the tune on tribble and play a little with skill tree there, at least it's free. You may want to buy the respec before you import to tribble so it would be available for you there. Also let us know pls if you're fed or kdf.
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Start here:

    http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/

    Post your build that you think it's best, then save it and link it to your original post (easier for we all to see it this way) and I'm pretty sure we can come up with some ideas. Especially naz, Cpt h, yoda, strike and other great bug pilots.

    I don't know if you are willing to do this, I would import the tune on tribble and play a little with skill tree there, at least it's free. You may want to buy the respec before you import to tribble so it would be available for you there. Also let us know pls if you're fed or kdf.

    Thanks for that link. I took your advice and posted it in the OP.
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=suggestions_0

    Hazard emitters and polarize hull share a cooldown and omega does what polarize does only better. Having 2 copies of emergency power 2 shields alows you to chain the giving you better shield performance for longer. Using transfer shield streangth with tactical team tends to negate most of the damage your taking. Omega 3 is much better than omega 1 and cannon rapid fire 3 isn't that much better than 2. delta will apply the same damage debuff as beta and will give you a defence buff, only downside is it only applied to your attackers.

    It usualy isnt worth it to put more than 6 points into most skills. Flow capacitors will inprove the proc from your weapons and the more expensive energy specialization will increase your critical chance/damage. Plus now you have some ground skills.


    I do not claim to be an expert but these are generalizations.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=suggestions_0

    Hazard emitters and polarize hull share a cooldown and omega does what polarize does only better. Having 2 copies of emergency power 2 shields alows you to chain the giving you better shield performance for longer. Using transfer shield streangth with tactical team tends to negate most of the damage your taking. Omega 3 is much better than omega 1 and cannon rapid fire 3 isn't that much better than 2. delta will apply the same damage debuff as beta and will give you a defence buff, only downside is it only applied to your attackers.

    It usualy isnt worth it to put more than 6 points into most skills. Flow capacitors will inprove the proc from your weapons and the more expensive energy specialization will increase your critical chance/damage. Plus now you have some ground skills.


    I do not claim to be an expert but these are generalizations.

    Thanks for the suggestions. The one problem I see with this build is that it is not very resistant to tractor beams, and with Runabouts being so popular these days, I think at least 2 tractor resists are necessary. Maybe I could modify your suggestion slightly and put Attack Pattern Omega 1 in place of one of the CRF2, and put CRF1 in place of Scatter Volley...dunno, just brainstorming here.
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    True only one tractor resist may be a problem so you could also keep an extra sci boff with polarize hull handy just in case. Nice thing about this game is as long as your skill tree supports it you can swap boffs and powers at will. I would suggest keeping a few extra boffs around with different power setups anyway just so you cad more easily adapt to what your oponent brings to the table.

    Also what are you using for equipment? Besides what you have already listed.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Also what are you using for equipment? Besides what you have already listed.

    General Equipment:
    KHG shield, Borg deflector, Borg Engine, Subspace Field Modulator, Large Engine Batteries

    Consoles:
    Tac.- 5 Tetryon Consoles
    Sci.- 1 Field Generator
    Eng.- 2 Neutronium Alloys, 1 RCS, 1 Borg Assimilated Console

    Doffs:
    3 Conn Attack Pattern Doffs, 2 Shield Brace for Impact Doffs
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    skurf wrote: »
    General Equipment:
    KHG shield, Borg deflector, Borg Engine, Subspace Field Modulator, Large Engine Batteries

    Consoles:
    Tac.- 5 Tetryon Consoles
    Sci.- 1 Field Generator
    Eng.- 2 Neutronium Alloys, 1 RCS, 1 Borg Assimilated Console

    Doffs:
    3 Conn Attack Pattern Doffs, 2 Shield Brace for Impact Doffs

    Yep no room to improve there. Unless you wanted to get a cstore console. If you spec into flow caps and get the plasmonic leech console you couls use it to buff your power levels while attacking. Or the sub space jump console, always fun to suddenly appear behind your target. Those are just neat tho and aren't necessary. I believe that the full jem'hadar set grants an eztra bonus to bug ship aswell, may be worth looking at.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    This is the build I have for my bug:

    http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=RurikTheDamned_2184

    Keep in mind though this is a build I use to also fly my Bortie, so it is not entirely optimized for an escort. I am also a KDF tac.

    this is my layout for consoles:
    Engi: 1 turn console, 1 eps console, 1 leech console, 1 borg console
    Tac: 5x polaron
    Sci: 1 flow cap

    Devices: 1 aux batt (or a dual aux/engines batt) and deutherium

    fore weapons: 4 dhc mkxi acc x 3 (if you can get mkxii acc x3, do it, i didn't feel like paying 100+ mil for one nor want to farm kerrat all day long hoping for a drop.)
    rear: 1 beam acc x3, 2 turrets acc x3

    that beam in the back is for target engines and beam overload. Many times you fire in somebody (especially escorts that slow down in your face) you can trick tt into completely leave the opposite side empty of shield, and what you do is accelerate and hit a beam overload on that side.If you use that 3 piece omega, you can also use first the ability that prevents them to turn (graviton something???). Many people go to respawn after this. Target engine is also good to slow fast moving escorts. If you work with 2 tt, than just use either a target engine 2 or a bo2, up to you, both work.

    I would make few comments on my build:
    I use full omega set, I only have only 1 tt since I slot 2 tac team doffs (energy weapons doff) and of course the standard 3 bfi doffs. You may want to think getting 3 of those subnuc doffs, just to have them handy when you are slammed by people that also have them. Off topic, I hate those doffs, one of the most stupid thing cryptic thought to introduce to further break the pvp. 3 borg set is also a great choice, but the engine is not that fast, your speed and turn is not that good as with omega. It definitely gives you a great heal, have both omega and borg handy and use them as you see it fit. I still am a fan of full omega (also you have 50% chance to get speed bonus and turn while taking damage, which is really good. with omega you really need to crank the engine power as high as you can, while still having 50+ to shields Edit: W eps) so that omega shield will have enough to decently regenerate. When taking too much damage, max your engine power and hit evasives and/or deutherium and get the heck out, nobody will be able to catch you unless another bug with hyperimpulse engine. HG shield is not good for escorts due to low availability of shield recharges. You really need at least eps2 back to back plus some tss/bfi doffs to fil that huge shield back. I've tried it and didn't like HG on the bug. Omega, even lower in cap, is better, it regens faster and due to the insane speed bug can get, you can get out of combat in a heart beat. Thats why I would recommend 1 pol hull and 2 apo. Use apo regularly, and ph when you are tractored in between omegas or when your ship is under heavy fire, ph gies a nice resist. Pop an aux batt (or swith to high aux power) when you use it too, dmg resistance is better.

    I maxed out flows since I use tet glider with 1 flow capacitor console and leech console. On the bug, while you are firing your weapons you get about +10 all power levels. If you don't have the leech, get it, only for the passive +10 gain and it is worth.

    Add at least 6 to Energy weapon specialization, this increases the occurrences of criticals. It is worth. For weapon performance, if you only fly escorts (or any ship that give you +15 weapons) you may in fact not need any points in here, as I said above, I have to have some points (what I have adds +5 to weapon power from this ability) for bortie, to make sure that I get to 125 when flying bortie. So for bug only, you can take all of the points from weapon performance out and you still get to 125. Use those points for sensor and energy weapons specialization.

    I recommend you maxing out your flows and also use omega set with tet glider and replace the cap console from sci slot with a flow capacitor. If you like the result, keep it, if not, nobody can force you doing anything you don't want, lol, but this is why I suggested you going to tribble and try things out before you waste your retraining token.

    You may also consider adding 3 in threat control, in pvp it adds a damage resistance, cant tell you how much since I've never used it. Maybe some folks here can fill in the gaps.

    I wouldn't add more than 3 in bateries either, 3 in batteries adds +5 secs, so you'll be at 15 sec/battery usage, more than enough IMO. Max out electroplasma since it improves your power transfers, and you'll find yourself switching attack/heal quite often. I also use a eps console for this reason, plus a little faster recharge time, especially after my BO2.

    I also use aux to si, since I have a devent aux power level due to the leech and also this adds a decent resist and hull heal for 10 sec every 15 sec.

    Bindings: that's probably the most important thing... get your hands on a mouse naga, it has 12 bindable buttons that you can use. put your balance shield on space bar or left shift, so that its easier to press it all the time. moving fast in an escort is the key. Speed tanking is the ability to raise your resists (omega, aux2struct, aux2ID, ph, he, etc) while moving at fast speeds so your enemies will have hard time targeting you. Even if your defense I think caps at 24 impulse, moving at 30+ (or 60-90 with omegas) will make them having a hard time steering to have you on target. Also try using evasives not only to run, but while firing towards somebody and reversing. In time, you'll get used to and get better and better at it.

    Good luck. Remember that's no best build, it's the build you are more comfortable with.
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Some interesting stuff to think about there and some things I have never taken into consideration. For instance, I never thought about the wasted points in weapon performance since the cap for a system's power is at 125. This is the kind of info I'm really after as I just don't have much experience with the skill-tree to know what's effective, what's redundant, and so on. Essentially, what you're saying is that I can put zero points into Weapon Performance and still be at 125 weapon power setting?

    I'm actually planning on using Omega set at some point for the Tet Glider so putting points into flow capacitor makes sense, but STF drops have not been kind to me lately and I can only take so much of the monotonousness that comes along with STFs. I'm using the KHG shield simply because I was using the KHG 2-set for the torpedo bonus, but now I am no longer using torpedoes and it's the best available option that I have until I can pick up the Omega set.

    I don't really understand why you suggest to put points into Sensors though. It seems like that would be a skill more useful for the Fed side due to all the cloakable KDF ships. What exactly would the benefit be for a KDF tac. Bug pilot?

    As always, thanks for the advice! I'm figuring this game out slowly but surely, and I couldn't do it without y'alls help.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    skurf wrote: »
    Some interesting stuff to think about there and some things I have never taken into consideration. For instance, I never thought about the wasted points in weapon performance since the cap for a system's power is at 125. This is the kind of info I'm really after as I just don't have much experience with the skill-tree to know what's effective, what's redundant, and so on. Essentially, what you're saying is that I can put zero points into Weapon Performance and still be at 125 weapon power setting?

    125 is not a power cap, just an effect cap. a shot fired at 135 will deal the same damage as a shot fired at 135. but shot number 2 will deal as much damage as shot number 1 with 135 power. all your remaining shots will deal more damage because they were fired with a modifier 10 energy higher then they would have been. just go for broke with weapons power, thats the rule of thumb.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=bugklinkh_0

    Oh on the conn doffs I hope you didn't drop lots of cash on the third one you only need 2.
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    125 is not a power cap, just an effect cap. a shot fired at 135 will deal the same damage as a shot fired at 135. but shot number 2 will deal as much damage as shot number 1 with 135 power. all your remaining shots will deal more damage because they were fired with a modifier 10 energy higher then they would have been. just go for broke with weapons power, thats the rule of thumb.

    This info dontdrunk told you I just found out today. From him also. There is an always on conversation about those things. Still, I wouldn't put more than 3 to weapon power since is expensive and I think also that 3 points add you 5 to weapon power. So 100 power + Borg (5) + escort bonus (15) + warp core potential full (5) + 5 from weapon performance = 130. I'd you're using the leech, I think that with full flow cap on skill tree and only one flow console (+30 flow) you get over 10 more all power levels (I think is 12 or 13). So from this point of view you could go completely without bonus from weapon performance since you have a more than decent overcap from leech. Still add those 3 bc you never know if you'll fly a ship that has less weapon power (the new time escort has 10 power only and 5 aux), it gives you a little flexibility. And that extra power is even more useful when you use beams. Beams seem to suck more power than cannons.

    What dontdrunk is saying is that no matter how much power you put over 125 in weapons your damage will be still based on 125 power. But when you keep firing, your available power will decrease due to the drains. When you overcap 125 power, your drain will be less since weapon power usage subtracts from your total power -that's over 125. Does it make sense?

    Edit: just saw the sensor question. First, sensors do affect fomm and when you're scrambled, the time it takes to wear off is shorter when you have points in them. I am not sure about this, but maybe dontdrunk reads this again and steps in, lol, but I think sensors may have a benefit to accuracy, even if indirectly.
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Also consider that every boint of bonus power you get is added ontop of what you set it to. So having all your power systems at maximum potential means that, if you need to, you can set your one of you power settings lower, add that power to another system, and still have a significant abount of power left in the origional system.

    Having more than you need is better than needing more than you have.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Also consider that every boint of bonus power you get is added ontop of what you set it to. So having all your power systems at maximum potential means that, if you need to, you can set your one of you power settings lower, add that power to another system, and still have a significant abount of power left in the origional system.

    Having more than you need is better than needing more than you have.

    Exactly, that's why I suggested to get the leech, you sacrifice 1 console for more than 10 power per each system while using it in a bug. Personally i wont put more than 3 in any tier 5 power, with 3 you get 5 bonus, with 6 you get 8 and with 9 you get 10. Either max it out, either use 3. So if you adjust your power lower to weapons (when you have 6) you may end up with 123 or 128 if you move up. It's not worth IMO more than 3. Especially when you have leech.
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Exactly, that's why I suggested to get the leech, you sacrifice 1 console for more than 10 power per each system while using it in a bug. Personally i wont put more than 3 in any tier 5 power, with 3 you get 5 bonus, with 6 you get 8 and with 9 you get 10. Either max it out, either use 3. So if you adjust your power lower to weapons (when you have 6) you may end up with 123 or 128 if you move up. It's not worth IMO more than 3. Especially when you have leech.

    Also true. leech is a prety awesome console. Have you tried it with a full jem set and polaron build? Another nice console to consider is the isometric charge, nothing like throwing an exploding superball into a fed ball. Also its tac buffable:-p.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Also true. leech is a prety awesome console. Have you tried it with a full jem set and polaron build? Another nice console to consider is the isometric charge, nothing like throwing an exploding superball into a fed ball. Also its tac buffable:-p.

    Hmm, isometric is tac buffable? Lol. I gotta try it, I have it.

    And no, haven't tried the Jem set, shield seems a piece of ***** and engine too slow. Don't know what was in their heads when tey released it. Only deflector seems decent. I wanted to try the polaron proc though. Maybe when I'm bored once ill give it a shot, lol. Thanks for isometric typ!
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    the sensors skill does effect some part of FOMM, but it might not even be the resistance debuff. might just be the stealth debuff, like that ever made a difference. dont wory to much in specing for FOMM, nearly everyone has a 66% up time on that skill's cure.

    heres some research someone did on weapons power, still a remarkable piece of work. as you can see the benefit in the % of extra damage it gives you tapers off at about 150 (on 7 weapon ships), so using more then EPtW1 is really not necessary, and compromises your build really

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Asu87Jb5VCBgdHFKbmdpZjlEMHk3YUhfNGRTbllNY0E&output=html
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    husanakx wrote: »
    http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=bugklinkh_0

    Oh on the conn doffs I hope you didn't drop lots of cash on the third one you only need 2.

    Why is 3 not better than 2?

    Also, what does FOMM stand for?
  • hurleybirdhurleybird Member Posts: 909
    edited September 2012
    Fire on My Mark
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    the sensors skill does effect some part of FOMM, but it might not even be the resistance debuff. might just be the stealth debuff, like that ever made a difference. dont wory to much in specing for FOMM, nearly everyone has a 66% up time on that skill's cure.

    heres some research someone did on weapons power, still a remarkable piece of work. as you can see the benefit in the % of extra damage it gives you tapers off at about 150 (on 7 weapon ships), so using more then EPtW1 is really not necessary, and compromises your build really

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Asu87Jb5VCBgdHFKbmdpZjlEMHk3YUhfNGRTbllNY0E&output=html

    It only affects the stealth debuff but also increases your resistance to confuse and placate abilitys. Only real use is for the resistance but a fomm on a bop can keep it from cloaking if it tries it while too close.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
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