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KDF and the 5 Tac console ships

aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
edited November 2012 in Klingon Discussion
I browsed the KDF Fleet ship roster and I kind of had to wipe my eyes to see if I was seeing correctly .

As far as I can determine , the KDF have one ship with 5 Tac consoles (the Tac. Bortas) .
I could have sworn that they'd have at least one Fleet BOP and one Fleet Raptor that would of had that configuration , as the Feds have the Fleet Defiant and the Fleet Pormetheus Advance Escort with 5 Tac consoles .

What happened to the KDF being all bout the firepower ?
Why are the Feds getting this kind of ... dare I say preferential treatment ?
I mean this is the equivalent of discovering only one Fed Fleet cruiser with 5 Eng slots .

I can imagine them adding 5 Tac consoles to the Fleet Guramba down the road , but really , one if not two of the actual canon ships should have this added firepower as well (as the Bortas can't even make use of it in an optimal fashion) -- not like an escort can .

Your thoughts ?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    In theory, I don't think consoles are supposed to be more powerful than one another.

    But I think a Fleet B'Rel or Fleet versions of the stock T5 ships would be appreciated.
  • dant158#3249 dant158 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    KDF fleet cruisers are great. EVerything else, they get shafted in, in comparaison to the fed ones.

    Considering that fed ships in general are better already...


    Not to mention that there are NO kdf fleet ships for less that 4 modules...

    Yeah, shafted :(
  • tebsutebsu Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    they also have not as much ships as fed so not more ships with 5th console. its logical isnt it?
    What ? Calaway.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    I could have sworn that they'd have at least one Fleet BOP and one Fleet Raptor that would of had that configuration , as the Feds have the Fleet Defiant and the Fleet Pormetheus Advance Escort with 5 Tac consoles .

    Wait...the fleet Advanced Escort has 5 tac consoles? I thought it gained a sci or engineering console. (And I did look it up, I was honestly surprised, since I'd forgotten, and it does)

    I will say though, yeah, KDF did get the shaft pretty much in terms of fleet ships. No discounted ships, and three ships with 5 consoles in anything (bug doesn't count), two of the Bortasqu' varients, and the fleet Negh'var.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    tebsu wrote: »
    they also have not as much ships as fed so not more ships with 5th console. its logical isnt it?

    If you consider "no more" to mean "one" then yes.
    And in case of the fleet ships that number drops to "none" (I know that's not an actual number).

    It's actually pretty strange that the faction that practically has only warships doesn't get such a ship.
    Instead there's that BoP with only 9 consoles and the same amount of hull as a Runabout.
    *looks around*
    Has anybody figured out what that thing is supposed to be good at yet?
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    While it's true that Klingons got shafted with Fleet ships...........except one. The Fleet Vor'cha is pretty much a must buy.

    Many of us are calling her the "Heavy" Escort or the Battle Escort since she pretty much is a powerhouse that dishes it out and takes it as well. She actually gives Raptors a run for their money.
  • tobar26thtobar26th Member Posts: 799 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    misterde3 wrote: »
    If you consider "no more" to mean "one" then yes.
    And in case of the fleet ships that number drops to "none" (I know that's not an actual number).

    It's actually pretty strange that the faction that practically has only warships doesn't get such a ship.
    Instead there's that BoP with only 9 consoles and the same amount of hull as a Runabout.
    *looks around*
    Has anybody figured out what that thing is supposed to be good at yet?

    I can't say I have, but it's up there with the Fed's Aquarius destroyer - I suspect that the one you're referring to is the counterpart of the BoP that comes in the Bortas as a launchable craft yeah?

    I believe with the aquarius it was put in due to high layer demand, I suspect the Klingon Equivalent was put in for equality (!)
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    tobar26th wrote: »
    I can't say I have, but it's up there with the Fed's Aquarius destroyer - I suspect that the one you're referring to is the counterpart of the BoP that comes in the Bortas as a launchable craft yeah?

    I believe with the aquarius it was put in due to high layer demand, I suspect the Klingon Equivalent was put in for equality (!)

    I actually don't refer to the Hoh'Sus *gesundheit* which would be the counterpart to the Aquarius.:)

    http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Hoh%27SuS_Bird-of-Prey

    The Hoh'SuS actually makes kinda sense.
    Even though I find it aestetically unappealing it's basically a BoP with a greater TAC focus.

    I mean this:

    http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Ning%27tao_Bird-of-Prey_Retrofit

    and while it does have a potentially powerful BO setup, it does have drawbacks that make me shy away from it and wonder what it's supposed to be good at.:confused:
  • tobar26thtobar26th Member Posts: 799 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    misterde3 wrote: »
    I actually don't refer to the Hoh'Sus *gesundheit* which would be the counterpart to the Aquarius.:)

    http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Hoh%27SuS_Bird-of-Prey

    The Hoh'SuS actually makes kinda sense.
    Even though I find it aestetically unappealing it's basically a BoP with a greater TAC focus.

    I mean this:

    http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Ning%27tao_Bird-of-Prey_Retrofit

    and while it does have a potentially powerful BO setup, it does have drawbacks that make me shy away from it and wonder what it's supposed to be good at.:confused:

    Ah my KDF n00bness lets me down. I rarely play my KDF characters so I'm going to go hide in the corner.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    tobar26th wrote: »
    Ah my KDF n00bness lets me down. I rarely play my KDF characters so I'm going to go hide in the corner.

    Nah, I shoulda clarified a bit more in the first place.;)
  • tobar26thtobar26th Member Posts: 799 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    misterde3 wrote: »
    Nah, I shoulda clarified a bit more in the first place.;)

    No need, I'm sure the Klingon players understand it ;-)
  • z0graz0gra Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I think that fleet BoP's should have 5 tac console slots cause their initial design was already weak enough both in surival and firepower so to make things right it must get 5 tac slots and 3 sci 3 engi to compensate with its low stats on hull and shield mod and only 4 boffs.

    All fleet BOP should just get 1 more tac slot in order to make them worth buying and flying cause with fleet scourge destroyer now there is no need at all to fly a BoP.

    Perhaps a 5th console will make it more desirable and also it wont mess out balance at all cause BOP firepower is weak due to 6 weapons only and 4 boffs that many must be eginner and sci in order to have a basis survival with that little bird.

    So give BoP's a 5th console tac
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    z0gra wrote: »
    I think that fleet BoP's should have 5 tac console slots cause their initial design was already weak enough both in surival and firepower so to make things right it must get 5 tac slots and 3 sci 3 engi to compensate with its low stats on hull and shield mod and only 4 boffs.

    All fleet BOP should just get 1 more tac slot in order to make them worth buying and flying cause with fleet scourge destroyer now there is no need at all to fly a BoP.

    Perhaps a 5th console will make it more desirable and also it wont mess out balance at all cause BOP firepower is weak due to 6 weapons only and 4 boffs that many must be eginner and sci in order to have a basis survival with that little bird.

    So give BoP's a 5th console tac

    I agree with you there, except on the 5/3/3 set-up, because that would give BoPs 11 consoles.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I agree with you there, except on the 5/3/3 set-up, because that would give BoPs 11 consoles.

    Fleet Hegh'ta...5 tac/3 science/2 engineering consoles?
  • reaper66688reaper66688 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    i love bops but since the starbases came out i had to switch out of my heghtal and in2 my gurumba and ended up falling in love with the nausican space fishes. now that i have my fleet scourge i doubt ill ever fly a bop again.
  • seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited September 2012
    I don't understand the big deal people make out of a ship having 5 tactical consoles.

    The way I see it you are already suffering some pretty severe DR using a 4th that matches your damage type (assuming an all cannon / turret escort) so a 5th is not going to be overly helpful. I suppose it could let you run 4 and 1 torp damage console but as ive said, the difference between 3 and 4 damage consoles is pretty small.

    However i've found there are a couple of consoles i'd rather not do without. 2x Armor and 2x Shield Capacity are now standard for me along with one science or engineering for the borg console. Some people still like to use EPS regulators or a turn rate console which means you need 3 engineer, 3 science (if borg goes in here) and 4 tactical OR 4 engineer (borg again), 2 science and 4 tactical.

    I really don't know what people would like to give up for a tiny damage boost from a 5th tac console. 1 Science like the bug ship? Suppose its ok but the shields do make a difference. Same with the armor. Especially in pve.

    This is why, imo, the fleet MVAE sucks. Its only got 2 engineering consoles so no turn / eps, 3 science consoles (which is fine) but 5 tac consoles. The worst thing about it is the BO layout. Only 1 of the best tactical slot (lt commander) is a hinderance.
  • voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Yes, people did call for a playable Aquarius. But they called for it to be a small craft. Instead we get this sad, sad thing is best labeled "Partially Weaponized Graveyard With Impulse Engines"
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    The way I see it you are already suffering some pretty severe DR using a 4th that matches your damage type

    That, right there. Tactical consoles do not have diminishing returns, which is why there is a big deal over 5 tac consoles. So yes, it does matter a lot.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited September 2012
    voporak wrote: »
    That, right there. Tactical consoles do not have diminishing returns, which is why there is a big deal over 5 tac consoles. So yes, it does matter a lot.

    It may not be diminishing returns but the fact is when you add a 4th console the dps only increases by about 90 on each DHC. I suspect the total increase in dps on a 4 DHC 3 Turret escort, after power drain, is probably no more than 400 dps. I wouldn't sacrifice an armor console or shield capacity console for that little gain.

    A dead ship does 0 dps.
  • nephilim83nephilim83 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I think a better way to have handled the Fleet BoPs would have been to give them an extra Lt.Commander Boff slot. What makes the BoP so interesting to me is how versatile it is with its all universal slots. An extra Lt.Commander Boff would have played into that nicely. It would have allowed the BoP to kill better, heal better, or tank better - not just kill slighty better with an extra tact console. And compared to all the ships with the big shield and hull boosts, I'd say that would have been more than fair.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    When I get my fleet defiant I will run it with 3 M12 purple phaser and 2 M12 purple Quantums for a nice declocking alpha strike.

    I am thinking of getting my first c-store KDF ship to get the Isometric console - how does the ship(Vor'cha Battle Cruiser Refit )- console perform?
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    voporak wrote: »
    Yes, people did call for a playable Aquarius. But they called for it to be a small craft. Instead we get this sad, sad thing is best labeled "Partially Weaponized Graveyard With Impulse Engines"

    It would be the carrier of small crafts given that it's big enough for a shuttlebay with a good three shuttles in it... and is bigger than a BoP or Jem'Hadar attack ship and a bit smaller than a Defiant.

    That's literally how big the Odyssey is, that the Aquarius itself should be a mid-range sized escort by comparison.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I thought one of our Fleet Battle cruisers had 5 of console type arraingement?

    Regardless I feel the fleet Somraw deserves a 5th tactical console.

    misterde3 wrote: »
    If you consider "no more" to mean "one" then yes.
    And in case of the fleet ships that number drops to "none" (I know that's not an actual number).

    It's actually pretty strange that the faction that practically has only warships doesn't get such a ship.
    Instead there's that BoP with only 9 consoles and the same amount of hull as a Runabout.
    *looks around*
    Has anybody figured out what that thing is supposed to be good at yet?

    Decloak fire TRIBBLE it didnt die oh S#%&T BOOM respawn?
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    nephilim83 wrote: »
    I think a better way to have handled the Fleet BoPs would have been to give them an extra Lt.Commander Boff slot. What makes the BoP so interesting to me is how versatile it is with its all universal slots. An extra Lt.Commander Boff would have played into that nicely. It would have allowed the BoP to kill better, heal better, or tank better - not just kill slighty better with an extra tact console. And compared to all the ships with the big shield and hull boosts, I'd say that would have been more than fair.

    Actually, if memory serves, the fleet Ning'tao does have another Lt. Cmdr slot, at the cost of having spit for hull and shields.
    levi3 wrote: »
    I am thinking of getting my first c-store KDF ship to get the Isometric console - how does the ship(Vor'cha Battle Cruiser Refit )- console perform?

    It's a good console, but you need at least one of the following:

    1. Maxed out Particle Generators skill (and if you want, particle gen consoles)
    2. Tactical officer buffs.
    3. Multiple enemies, especially clustered together.

    Also the Vor'kang itself, as a ship, isn't bad either.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    I thought one of our Fleet Battle cruisers had 5 of console type arraingement?

    Regardless I feel the fleet Somraw deserves a 5th tactical console.

    misterde3 wrote: »
    If you consider "no more" to mean "one" then yes.
    And in case of the fleet ships that number drops to "none" (I know that's not an actual number).

    It's actually pretty strange that the faction that practically has only warships doesn't get such a ship.
    Instead there's that BoP with only 9 consoles and the same amount of hull as a Runabout.
    *looks around*
    Has anybody figured out what that thing is supposed to be good at yet?[/QUOTE

    Decloak fire TRIBBLE it didnt die oh S#%&T BOOM respawn?

    The Fleet Norgh/Ning'tao is pretty much suited for just that. The extra LTC console will help with shield tanking, but that low hull will definitely hurt it. It's basically meant for quick diving in and out of action, hopefully without everyone unleashing an alpha on you at once. . .just like the Hegh'ta and the Fleet Hoh'sus (which will do it just as well, if not better) are really gonna be used.

    The Somraw is apparently a worthy buy, if you've got dilithium to throw around. That's what we'll have to use to really try matching the Fed fleet escorts. Tor'kaht, as well.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    I thought one of our Fleet Battle cruisers had 5 of console type arraingement?

    Regardless I feel the fleet Somraw deserves a 5th tactical console.

    HMM, I actually like the Somraw the way it is *runs for cover*, perhaps a Fleet Quin will get such a setup.
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    Decloak fire TRIBBLE it didnt die oh S#%&T BOOM respawn?

    That's something I can do with a T3 BoP with the same look just as well.
    It's just a lot cheaper.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    misterde3 wrote: »
    HMM, I actually like the Somraw the way it is *runs for cover*, perhaps a Fleet Quin will get such a setup.
    I like the Fleet Somraw as well, though a 5th tactical console slot would only make it better.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • maltinpolarmaltinpolar Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    While it's true that Klingons got shafted with Fleet ships...........except one. The Fleet Vor'cha is pretty much a must buy.

    Many of us are calling her the "Heavy" Escort or the Battle Escort since she pretty much is a powerhouse that dishes it out and takes it as well. She actually gives Raptors a run for their money.

    Which ship is that? There's no Fleet Vor'Cha listed either here or here.
  • voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    When you think about it, Cryptic gives a pretty obvious hint that the ratio of content of Fed vs KDF is 2:1

    5-tac console fleet ships? 2:1
    Mirror ships? 2:1
    Story missions? Let's not go there... I'm just going to say at least 2:1

    So... yeah. The KDF should get another 5 tac console fleet ship.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Which ship is that? There's no Fleet Vor'Cha listed either here or here.

    He's talking about either the Tor'kaht or the K'Tinga. Of course they didn't give us a Fleet Vor'cha, they might've had to actually give us a friggin discount then. Can't be having that, now. So they'll just upgrade the K'Tinga and also create an entirely new cruiser model called the Tor'kaht.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
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