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pug vs. premade...what a difference

skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
edited September 2012 in PvP Gameplay
So I've been trying to learn PvP for the last few weeks and I've just been joining the pug queue as my fleet is not really into PvP. It's been fun, albeit a bit frustrating at times with the lack of teamwork. The most annoying thing to me are cruisers that think they're actually accomplishing something by being able to tank for 5 minutes and give absolutely 0 team heals and never do enough damage to actually kill anyone.

Well, that changed last night when my queue landed me in a pre-made team with 3 Spanish Inquisition members and a Sad Panda. It turned out to be just the right mix of ships as I think we had 2 cruisers, a science ship, a Bug, and me in my Fleet Defiant. Knowing that they were a premade I just stuck near them and took my lead from how they setup. After we won the first engagement in the middle they set up this defensive line in an offensive position (middle of the map, but on the enemy's side). There were minefields and the 2 cruisers and science ship held the line near the mines.

This was the best setup I have had any team use, especially for the way I like to play. I could cloak my ship, go in for a big decloak alpha-strike on the weakest of their ships, many times killing it, and then haul TRIBBLE back to the line that they had established. Many times they would try to chase me down but the defensive line was in such a great position that I was able to get back to its safety in no time, so if they were going to chase me down after my alpha strike they were going to have to deal with the cruisers, sci ship, and not to mention the Bug who was using similar tactics to mine. If they followed me back then I would just turn around and fight with my team, and if they didn't then I would use the line as a buffer to allow me to recloak. I have never been able to use cloak as much as I did in this game and it was all because of the protection my team allowed for me.

One time after I had made an alpha strike and headed back to the line, their best player Hei'Qin (unfortunately the rest of their team did not seem all that great) came in with a decloak alpha strike of his own against me, trying to use a similar tactic that I had been using all game. He tore through my shields and 60% of my hull within 1 second, and as I had just returned from my own hit-and-run attack both of my Tactical Teams and other defensive buffs were on cooldown. I had about 4 seconds left till my TT was available when my hull was down to 40%, which basically meant I had about 1-2 seconds to live and was prepared to die on his next volley. But before he get off his next volley, I think all 3 of the line-holders must have healed me because I went from no shields and 40% hull, to max shields and 100% hull and the next volley that hit me did absolutely no damage what-so-ever. At this point I popped a 180 and anchored Hei'Qin with a tractor beam, the sci ship hit him with a gravity well, and we bombarded him from all sides with fire.

Sorry about the text-wall, but I have never been in a match where I felt my team had my back so much. It allowed me to play an offensive style without worrying about being over-run or left high and dry. Every time my shields went down or I had hull damage a team mate was there to heal me. In 90% of pugs if I want to survive in my Defiant when my shields go down I have to book it completely out of the battle, transfer power to engines, and hope I can make it far enough away that I'm able to cloak and escape my pursuers. In this match, all I had to do was head back to the line they had established, which was in an amazing position, and if my pursuers were foolish enough to chase me back to the line they were as good as dead. It was a completely different experience than pretty much every other PvP I have played and it was just an awesome feeling knowing that my entire team was looking out for me. I ended up with no deaths that game, the most kills, and second highest damage next to the Bug. Thanks for the great team guys!
Post edited by skurf on

Comments

  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    skurf wrote: »
    The most annoying thing to me are cruisers that think they're actually accomplishing something by being able to tank for 5 minutes and give absolutely 0 team heals and never do enough damage to actually kill anyone.

    Yeah, if you're lucky to land on a partial premade in pug or invite it really makes the game shine.

    I agree about the heals. I actually was in a pug match where I outhealed everyone in both teams and did not get one heal from anyone the entire match, no shield doffs either. Worst experience as a pug in my life.

    At least we won. :P

    These are probably the same people that actually make my healboats viable in normal STFs, when I'm TRIBBLE around for dilithium. They never heal themselves and they die so often.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited September 2012
    there it is....

    i see it...

    a little glimpse........

    (oh noes)


    (here it comes)





    pvp.



    have fun kill bad guys
  • xtremenoob1xtremenoob1 Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Qin is Boss. When I got home from work he mentioned this fight. Grr to the work that must be done.
    -X-/Pandas - Pheo
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    No heals? Hah, if this was something new. In PuGs you at least have a chance of meeting someone who will heal you. I just spent whole night yesterday on cmdr level Ker'rat TRIBBLE up with Klinks (was fun) in my cruiser. I was trying to keep alive escorts only to see them running away just after I hit HE or Extend on them, or running after I healed them and leaving me for the wrath of three Klinks.

    Simply get used to it when you PuG or you are in Ker'rat. It is part of what makes PuG enjoyable - you never know with whom you will end and if you win. Going all premade vs PuG would be boring with constant roflstomps, and premade vs premade can be fun but I was never into organized PvP.
  • amidoinitrightamidoinitright Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Flying with a team makes a lot of difference in pvp enjoyment. Qin, myself, & Pheo are usually teamed up every AM on -X-treme's TS server chatting away while we pew. (Although Qin's Australian accent & crappy mike makes him a lil hard to understand sometimes :D ) any Klingons that want to join us just ask for the TS info & we'll provide it. And Pheo's right, Qin can bring some serious pain in his raptor. I'd go so far as to say he's Blackjack good.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Time played in game. as of 9/12/12 (on my mains) Total 2907 hours.K'zoontite has been on active duty for 34 days, 3 hours, Bot Fly has been on active duty for 55 days, 4 hours, Poppa Capp has been on active duty for 4 days, 12 hours, B'zooka has been on active duty for 12 days, 22 hours,Tater(fed) has been on active duty for 14 days, 10 hours,
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    No heals? Hah, if this was something new. In PuGs you at least have a chance of meeting someone who will heal you. I just spent whole night yesterday on cmdr level Ker'rat TRIBBLE up with Klinks (was fun) in my cruiser. I was trying to keep alive escorts only to see them running away just after I hit HE or Extend on them, or running after I healed them and leaving me for the wrath of three Klinks.

    Simply get used to it when you PuG or you are in Ker'rat. It is part of what makes PuG enjoyable - you never know with whom you will end and if you win. Going all premade vs PuG would be boring with constant roflstomps, and premade vs premade can be fun but I was never into organized PvP.

    You're lucky to have had somebody in Kerrat at that level... As I leveled my new klink engi, I only found 2 feds in Kerrat at commander level, every other time (or at any other level) I was the only one in Kerrat and queues pop once every 1-3 hours... Cryptic, hint, hint... (that means do something, pls!)

    And to the op: you're right, every now and then you run into some good pvpers that actually want to play and know how to play, and that's where the beauty of this game's pvp is... too bad it doesn't happen too often.
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I even had a red (though it was red-Fed) on lt.cmdr level :) Much luck in Ker'rat, but faaar less in queues - since almost two weeks did not have even one match.

    As for lack of experienced/willing players - well, if there are no low level PvPers then there will be no high level ones. No place to learn and getting mauled after you play PvE for some time and want to try PvP is dishartening. There is a LOT of willing low ranks on lt and lt.cmdr levels - but for FvK. If they dont get it, they dont try on higher leveles - why should they? After all no one is PvPing :(

    But everyone knows this including Cryptic, and as Cryptic is not doing anything to fix this - I end my rant here.
  • ghostyandfrostyghostyandfrosty Member Posts: 864
    edited September 2012
    I even had a red (though it was red-Fed) on lt.cmdr level :) Much luck in Ker'rat, but faaar less in queues - since almost two weeks did not have even one match.

    As for lack of experienced/willing players - well, if there are no low level PvPers then there will be no high level ones. No place to learn and getting mauled after you play PvE for some time and want to try PvP is dishartening. There is a LOT of willing low ranks on lt and lt.cmdr levels - but for FvK. If they dont get it, they dont try on higher leveles - why should they? After all no one is PvPing :(

    But everyone knows this including Cryptic, and as Cryptic is not doing anything to fix this - I end my rant here.

    The real travesty is pvp is the only good thing about STO as a game. And it's so neglected and barebones that it needs massive help.

    You can't have a successful long lasting mmo that has Jack and TRIBBLE for effective PvE content, without pvp. The pve in this game is badly written, repetitive, and the npcs are nothing more than mere Practice Dummies that you find in other mmos to help setup your keybinds and get baseline damage numbers.
  • xtremenoob1xtremenoob1 Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I even had a red (though it was red-Fed) on lt.cmdr level :) Much luck in Ker'rat, but faaar less in queues - since almost two weeks did not have even one match.

    As for lack of experienced/willing players - well, if there are no low level PvPers then there will be no high level ones. No place to learn and getting mauled after you play PvE for some time and want to try PvP is dishartening. There is a LOT of willing low ranks on lt and lt.cmdr levels - but for FvK. If they dont get it, they dont try on higher leveles - why should they? After all no one is PvPing :(

    But everyone knows this including Cryptic, and as Cryptic is not doing anything to fix this - I end my rant here.

    KDF starts @ cmdr that is why there is no k in fvk queues @ LT and LTC
    -X-/Pandas - Pheo
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • amidoinitrightamidoinitright Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    KDF starts @ cmdr that is why there is no k in fvk queues @ LT and LTC

    LoL. they still haven't fixed the Q's :eek:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Time played in game. as of 9/12/12 (on my mains) Total 2907 hours.K'zoontite has been on active duty for 34 days, 3 hours, Bot Fly has been on active duty for 55 days, 4 hours, Poppa Capp has been on active duty for 4 days, 12 hours, B'zooka has been on active duty for 12 days, 22 hours,Tater(fed) has been on active duty for 14 days, 10 hours,
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Now imagine the glorious fun if you had multiple pvp fleets battling it out daily......
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    KDF starts @ cmdr that is why there is no k in fvk queues @ LT and LTC

    Exactly! But new players, low on rank, don't know this. And they still queue for fvk. Lol, i can imagine the disappointment... According to Borticus, this had been fixed a while ago, then broken back, he said maybe a month ago he will take a look into it. However, leveling a new tune through pvp is just a dream these days... not worth making one since you pve your butt over and over and do the same missions over and over... Still wonder how come there are so many players in sto, maybe is just me, but I couldn't pve so much time, unless new content would've been added at least once a week.
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • ghostyandfrostyghostyandfrosty Member Posts: 864
    edited September 2012
    Exactly! But new players, low on rank, don't know this. And they still queue for fvk. Lol, i can imagine the disappointment... According to Borticus, this had been fixed a while ago, then broken back, he said maybe a month ago he will take a look into it. However, leveling a new tune through pvp is just a dream these days... not worth making one since you pve your butt over and over and do the same missions over and over... Still wonder how come there are so many players in sto, maybe is just me, but I couldn't pve so much time, unless new content would've been added at least once a week.

    I can safely tell you it's never been fixed on holodeck.

    Just another lie.
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Flying with a team makes a lot of difference in pvp enjoyment. Qin, myself, & Pheo are usually teamed up every AM on -X-treme's TS server chatting away while we pew. (Although Qin's Australian accent & crappy mike makes him a lil hard to understand sometimes :D ) any Klingons that want to join us just ask for the TS info & we'll provide it. And Pheo's right, Qin can bring some serious pain in his raptor. I'd go so far as to say he's Blackjack good.

    Please can I join sometimes. Most of my fleet are off MWO, and I am always on the lookout for some new friends :)
  • amidoinitrightamidoinitright Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Please can I join sometimes. Most of my fleet are off MWO, and I am always on the lookout for some new friends :)

    I sent you the TS info on your forum page.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Time played in game. as of 9/12/12 (on my mains) Total 2907 hours.K'zoontite has been on active duty for 34 days, 3 hours, Bot Fly has been on active duty for 55 days, 4 hours, Poppa Capp has been on active duty for 4 days, 12 hours, B'zooka has been on active duty for 12 days, 22 hours,Tater(fed) has been on active duty for 14 days, 10 hours,
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I sent you the TS info on your forum page.

    Thank you so much. Respect!
  • amidoinitrightamidoinitright Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Dk Frontiers, the 3 of us usually are on between 7 am-2 pm us eastern time, although qin & pheo are often on earlier than that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Time played in game. as of 9/12/12 (on my mains) Total 2907 hours.K'zoontite has been on active duty for 34 days, 3 hours, Bot Fly has been on active duty for 55 days, 4 hours, Poppa Capp has been on active duty for 4 days, 12 hours, B'zooka has been on active duty for 12 days, 22 hours,Tater(fed) has been on active duty for 14 days, 10 hours,
  • corsair114corsair114 Member Posts: 276
    edited September 2012
    The real travesty is pvp is the only good thing about STO as a game. And it's so neglected and barebones that it needs massive help.

    You can't have a successful long lasting mmo that has Jack and TRIBBLE for effective PvE content, without pvp. The pve in this game is badly written, repetitive, and the npcs are nothing more than mere Practice Dummies that you find in other mmos to help setup your keybinds and get baseline damage numbers.

    Just quoting this for truth, justice, and Snickers. Someone get me a damn Snickers!

    Anyway, yep, if you don't have one, you'd damned well better have the other.
  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    The real travesty is pvp is the only good thing about STO as a game. And it's so neglected and barebones that it needs massive help.

    You can't have a successful long lasting mmo that has Jack and TRIBBLE for effective PvE content, without pvp. The pve in this game is badly written, repetitive, and the npcs are nothing more than mere Practice Dummies that you find in other mmos to help setup your keybinds and get baseline damage numbers.

    Oh, I wouldn't go so far as to call them practice dummies. After all, practice dummies don't one-shot you (any Borg ship in Elite STFs except for probes could possibly do this) or drain your shields (Borg cubes), and they don't speak with that awesome Borg collective-voice thing. But. . .yeah, they're not that tough once you learn their patterns. They're a step up from practice dummies, but not much of one.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Oh, I wouldn't go so far as to call them practice dummies. After all, practice dummies don't one-shot you (any Borg ship in Elite STFs except for probes could possibly do this) or drain your shields (Borg cubes), and they don't speak with that awesome Borg collective-voice thing. But. . .yeah, they're not that tough once you learn their patterns. They're a step up from practice dummies, but not much of one.

    the only real threat in pve is donotra firing a photon spread, invisible gate torpedoes that deal about 30k damage, and a plasma high yield from a tac cube, that some claim are invisible some times. npc's are harmless other wise, it would take 10 of them to be an incoming damage threat, shields drained or not. when fixing satellites, getting 2 galors fireing high yields on you can be a legitimate handful, out side of qued content i cant think of any other challenging situation.

    they are ether harmless or 1 shot you, because the npcs suck and rely on huge modifiers added to their damage rather then being built to be anything like a player ship. currently the only thing pve and pvp have in common is the skill tree and station powers, everything is different. and people want even the skills to be different in pve and pvp too? HA! the skills and ships and abilities were all created with player ships using them on each other in mind, the anomaly in this is pve, pve is a bug that needs fixing.
  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    naz4 wrote: »
    Now imagine the glorious fun if you had multiple pvp fleets battling it out daily......

    Maybe if fleets like Critz & Pandas didn't suck up PVPers then other fleets might ave the players to fight too?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Maybe if fleets like Critz & Pandas didn't suck up PVPers then other fleets might ave the players to fight too?

    Both Critz and Pandas are small fleets really...

    Critz is really like 10 active guys... with a handful of semi active friends. lol

    I can't honestly think of to many newer players we have picked up in critz. We are pretty much all old guard players. There are some good newer fleets around, they have a ways to go yet, and most of them seem to be relying on p2w way to much... but hey they'll get there I think.
  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    husanakx wrote: »
    Both Critz and Pandas are small fleets really...

    Critz is really like 10 active guys... with a handful of semi active friends. lol

    I can't honestly think of to many newer players we have picked up in critz. We are pretty much all old guard players. There are some good newer fleets around, they have a ways to go yet, and most of them seem to be relying on p2w way to much... but hey they'll get there I think.

    What happened to Coup De Grace?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
  • brandonflbrandonfl Member Posts: 892
    edited September 2012
    husanakx wrote: »
    Both Critz and Pandas are small fleets really...

    Critz is really like 10 active guys... with a handful of semi active friends. lol

    I can't honestly think of to many newer players we have picked up in critz. We are pretty much all old guard players. There are some good newer fleets around, they have a ways to go yet, and most of them seem to be relying on p2w way to much... but hey they'll get there I think.

    Pretty much this. Pandas only have about 10 active members with a few part-timers. Our active members just happen to be really active, and most have 2 years of gameplay experience.

    The new fleets do keep popping up, don't they? Well, that is a good thing. We need more fleets. Now we just need to get them into some premade matches so they can begin to truly refine their skills.
    LOLSTO
  • marctraiderzmarctraiderz Member Posts: 539 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Maybe if fleets like Critz & Pandas didn't suck up PVPers then other fleets might ave the players to fight too?

    We actually stopped recruiting because of the simple fact that if we recruit all of PvP there is no one left to fight. And yeh.. to say that our fleet is so big... I think 50% of the peeps coming to our vent isnt even Panda, but simply friends that like to play and chat.

    To the OP: Yes, 99% of the fights in PvP are either 15-0, or 0-15, which is boring but most of all, sad. But dont get me wrong, thats not simply to blame because of the newcomers, but its more to blame by the people that do senseless PVE stomping and STF's and Cryptic doesnt give them more of a challenge, next thing they queue up for a PvP match and get stomped by the opposition because a player is suddenly so much different then a senseless NPC.

    Newcomers to PvP actually adapt reasonably fast, and can get quite good in a short amount of time (with some help this can even go faster) if they are really want to pursue nice and challenging PvP :)
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    What happened to Coup De Grace?

    Yes we absorbed the 3 of them. ;) lol I would hardly call those guys "new" players... it was more like consolidating TS and Starbase junk. :)
  • amidoinitrightamidoinitright Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    What happened to Coup De Grace?
    Wasn't I was in that fleet? I've been in so many over the years I forget. Critz is a bunch of PVPers that have been playing forever. I was in Warriors of Grethor with about 1/2 of them over a year ago.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Time played in game. as of 9/12/12 (on my mains) Total 2907 hours.K'zoontite has been on active duty for 34 days, 3 hours, Bot Fly has been on active duty for 55 days, 4 hours, Poppa Capp has been on active duty for 4 days, 12 hours, B'zooka has been on active duty for 12 days, 22 hours,Tater(fed) has been on active duty for 14 days, 10 hours,
  • zorena#3961 zorena Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Yeah thats what all games should be about really fast paced good action but usually its just people being afk or totaly terrible.
    Noone.
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