Given that the Aquarius seems to be the Fed equivalent to BoPs in terms of hull, etc, this seems fair enough to ask, at least at first glance. The thing is, it's like a slightly more powerful version of the Fleet Hoh'sus, with weaker shields. Slightly more hull, extra eng console and one less sci console, extra ensign Boff slot. Just a notably lessened shield mod (which doesn't really tell us much, as we've been getting somewhat inaccurate information about shield mods as of late). I agree, 16 is probably too low for the craft. . .maybe bump it to 18 and give it a slight shield buff? I dunno.
The Saber, though. . .just buff the damn shields. It has less shields than the Fleet Hoh'sus, apparently. But then, if they buffed the shields, it'd be like all other Fed escorts, and nobody would buy it. Makes me wonder why they released it at all.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
what do you think "done" meant? the update is definitely incoming.
the saber is almost 4 times the volume of the defiant, they should not have the same turn rate. the saber is a small general purpose ship, being a defiant class also ran is not correct, but thats what we get in game when everything is ether an escort, cruiser or sci ship.
at least the aquarius change makes sense, that thing not turning more like a bop was one of my top 5 complaints on the fleet ship's stats, that was literally just the wrong turn rate for it, no other way to describe it.
how bout the somraw then? is smaller then the saber but larger then the defiant. also, the advertized shield mod on these fleet ships and retofits is lower then it actually is in game. the fleet somraw has a shield mod of .93 in actuality, the more basic retrofit has .8, just .3 less then a standard qin. the saber's shield mod in both forms is slightly better. giving the saber a higher turn rate because its 'weak', doesn't make sense. it is not weak at all, it was easily better then any other non fleet or lock box escort before.
What frustrates me as it came across as "Feds ask", and "Done".
Sadly, I'm no longer frustrated or shocked. Its been this way since the begining, it seems.
I wonder if the Devs will look at the KDF FLeet BoPs and the Fleet Raptors to see if they just unbalanced the game with this Fed buffing.
I do not see it looking at the FLeet HoH'Sus versus the Fleet Aquarius given the BoPs having more U-slots, but the buffing of the Saber makes little sense to me.
I am curiuos why the Aquarius gets 4 device slots though.
Sadly, I'm no longer frustrated or shocked. Its been this way since the begining, it seems.
I wonder if the Devs will look at the KDF FLeet BoPs and the Fleet Raptors to see if they just unbalanced the game with this Fed buffing.
I do not see it looking at the FLeet HoH'Sus versus the Fleet Aquarius given the BoPs having more U-slots, but the buffing of the Saber makes little sense to me.
I am curiuos why the Aquarius gets 4 device slots though.
Well, buffing the Aquarius to 20 negates most of the turning advantage the BoPs have versus a Fed escort (assuming the Aquarius becomes more popular due to this 'improvement'), unless you're flying a B'rel. It's probably not TOO game-breaking, as not everyone will fly the Aquarius. . .but it's still annoying. Meanwhile, the KDF has NO 'escorts' that have 5 tac consoles (except for the JHAS, which is a special case), and have much less in the way of options to pick from (Fleet Hoh'sus partly makes up for that with the uni boffslots).
I say, f**k the Saber and Aquarius. Spend the time buffing the Somraw (give it a 5th tac console, AT LEAST) or fixing the Qin turning pivot and making the fleet Qin something WORTH buying.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Well, buffing the Aquarius to 20 negates most of the turning advantage the BoPs have versus a Fed escort (assuming the Aquarius becomes more popular due to this 'improvement'), unless you're flying a B'rel. It's probably not TOO game-breaking, as not everyone will fly the Aquarius. . .but it's still annoying. Meanwhile, the KDF has NO 'escorts' that have 5 tac consoles (except for the JHAS, which is a special case), and have much less in the way of options to pick from (Fleet Hoh'sus partly makes up for that with the uni boffslots).
I say, f**k the Saber and Aquarius. Spend the time buffing the Somraw (give it a 5th tac console, AT LEAST) or fixing the Qin turning pivot and making the fleet Qin something WORTH buying.
Without a doubt it does lessen what ever advantages the BoP held in game due to its unique nature and design.
Does the Aqua have a cloak?
Then again DrkFrontiers probally hit a bullseye with the reasoning behind the buff.
I agree that if they are going to continue to buff the feds main DPS dealing vessels (escorts) they need to do the same to the Raptors and BoPs to keep things competitive.
5th tac consoles for the Qin and SOmraw, fix the Qin pivot point, etc.
The Devs act as if the KDF has no interst in maintaining the arms race and is willing to let the feds just walk all over them in vessel designs.
Or so it seems when these changes are made from a suggestion outside of the STO regular forums.
Maybe we KDF need to barrage the Devs in Twitter with our own desires and see if they are acted upon so quickly?
Without a doubt it does lessen what ever advantages the BoP held in game due to its unique nature and design.
Does the Aqua have a cloak?
Then again DrkFrontiers probally hit a bullseye with the reasoning behind the buff.
I agree that if they are going to continue to buff the feds main DPS dealing vessels (escorts) they need to do the same to the Raptors and BoPs to keep things competitive.
5th tac consoles for the Qin and SOmraw, fix the Qin pivot point, etc.
The Devs act as if the KDF has no interst in maintaining the arms race and is willing to let the feds just walk all over them in vessel designs.
Or so it seems when these changes are made from a suggestion outside of the STO regular forums.
Maybe we KDF need to barrage the Devs in Twitter with our own desires and see if they are acted upon so quickly?
Thanks bud, that's all we can pray for.
I would be satisfied with:
Fix of the Raptor-classes.
Re-balance of the Fleet BOP's.
Introduction of the Hegh'ta & B'Rel
And Gurumba.
But, honestly I don't expect things to change for the better.
With each passing day the KDF, are becoming the true freedom-fighters of this game. Its unsung hero's.
It does get old quick seeing these sort of changes without reasoning behind them.
I figured the Aquarius had a weaker hull for the same reasons the BoPs do ingame, Universal slots.
It does make playing the KDF feel like your bringing a Dagtagh to a gunfight at times.
Saddens me, seems like the only spot we have any type of upper hand fleet ship wise is with is cruisers. I mean their escorts outdo ours, they are more tactical than the aggressive warlike faction....we don't even have any science ships.
There is only like one Fleet ship I have any interest in and thats the Corsair, even then I have been losing interest in it.
Except the Aquarius only have 2 Universal slots and one of the BoP means of defense is their Battlecloaks, something the Aquarius naturally lacks.
Having such a crappy turn rate means its a lousy escort and even a higher turn rate still only makes it better at changing direction ... not surviving, I certainly expected the Aquarius to be changed since as it stands its awful but its certainly not a T5 ship and if they want to make the Fleet Version a T5 ship, that is fine ... normal version should be T3.
And the B'Rel needs a Fleet version, you just dont buff up the Tactical Escort with a Fleet Version and leave the B'Rel without it.
Its one point less than the Defiant-R in turnrate with the bonus of having 2 Universal BOffs to draw upon for a more defensive build if needed.
I do not see how the low hull, which is still higher than a Fleet HoH'sus BoP, gives reason to bump its Turnrate to 20. Especially since it has a 4 tac consoles, 4 engie consoles slots availible to it and possibly 4 device slots (if STOwiki is correct).
I can understand its meant to be the faster slightly lighter version of the Defiant but bumping the turn so high may be a bit much for a vessel that will be as easily tankible as its bigger brother in my opinion.
Frankly the the Fleet Ning'Toa needs to be the Fleet B'rel variant and all they would have to do is put the ABC on it and be done. Leave its low as a shuttle Hull points and be done with it as the great squishyness of only 16k HP will be still balance its abilities.
Increase BoP top speed (acceleration can remain the same)
Change BoP bonus from +weapon power to -50% weapon power cost
B'rel specific: no +weapon power or -50% weapon power cost. Instead remove the global timer for torpedoes so they can be fired just like cannons. all in one burst.
and you will have balance restored to bird of prey vs federation non-cloak escorts.
Feds may have more tactical consoles.. but KDF players forget the cloak ambush bonus is = to a purple tactical mk 11 console. So..we do have that extra console.
(... I would add too that it is strange why the cloak ambush bonus is not boosted by one's stealth skill. It should. )
Feds may get stronger shields, hulls and turn rate..but the bird of prey retains its boom&zoom ambush attack ability through speed and weapon performance.
The fleet KDF birds of prey are quite interesting and unique. The Hohsus can easily be seen as a cannon monster and the Ningtao's 3 lt cmdr slots open crazy possibilities..even if it has the hull of a shuttle.
Increase BoP top speed (acceleration can remain the same)
Change BoP bonus from +weapon power to -50% weapon power cost
B'rel specific: no +weapon power or -50% weapon power cost. Instead remove the global timer for torpedoes so they can be fired just like cannons. all in one burst.
and you will have balance restored to bird of prey vs federation non-cloak escorts.
Feds may have more tactical consoles.. but KDF players forget the cloak ambush bonus is = to a purple tactical mk 11 console. So..we do have that extra console.
(... I would add too that it is strange why the cloak ambush bonus is not boosted by one's stealth skill. It should. )
Feds may get stronger shields, hulls and turn rate..but the bird of prey retains its boom&zoom ambush attack ability through speed and weapon performance.
The fleet KDF birds of prey are quite interesting and unique. The Hohsus can easily be seen as a cannon monster and the Ningtao's 3 lt cmdr slots open crazy possibilities..even if it has the hull of a shuttle.
Purple mk 11 console? What are you smoking...at best its a blue...since you know umm feds...they have a cloak console and its a scaling blue item.
I hardly consider 5 seconds of 15% damage once a fight equal to a permanent 20% bonus to energy weapons.
The Fleet Aquariuos basically just became the fed cheaper Bug ship with one less Tac console and a slight difference in Engi BOff slots, if it gets a 20 turnrate boost.
Com: Tac
LTC: Tac
LT: Eng
Ens: Universal
LT: Universal
Purple mk 11 console? What are you smoking...at best its a blue...since you know umm feds...they have a cloak console and its a scaling blue item.
I hardly consider 5 seconds of 15% damage once a fight equal to a permanent 20% bonus to energy weapons.
Precisely.
Also, argument didn't take into consideration that the Fleet Defiant can mount 5x XII Purple Tac consoles, and still get that added cloak bonus. So, in all fairness, the BOP is still gimpy at best.
Its still the better ship. They only improved it with the Fleet variant by a 5th tac console and more HP. Since it performs very Tanky and very Bursty as it was , it will only be deadlier in a fleet version.
I was listing the Fl Aquarius as only being a cheap bug clone with only one probable KDF counter if it has a turnrate of 20.
The Fleet Aquariuos basically just became the fed cheaper Bug ship with one less Tac console and a slight difference in Engi BOff slots, if it gets a 20 turnrate boost.
1 less tac console, 1 less rear weapon, less hull and if the original numbers from tribble are accurate much much less shielding.
Originally what it got in return for all of that compromise was...nothing with a turn rate of 16.
Now it has 1 less turn rate than a 120k dilithium / free RALH selection Hegh'ta without the fully customizable BOFF layout and no cloak.
It still costs 4 FSM modules and has simply improved from "laughably terrible" to just "comparatively poor".
Purple mk 11 console? What are you smoking...at best its a blue...since you know umm feds...they have a cloak console and its a scaling blue item.
I hardly consider 5 seconds of 15% damage once a fight equal to a permanent 20% bonus to energy weapons.
Yes but that cloak is only one fed escort. It uses up a console slot. Birds of Prey has it as an innate ability, is a battle cloak and has all universal stations.
5 seconds of boosted damage IS equal to permanent 20% damage if you take into account the RAIDER is an ambush ship. Decloak,shoot, recloak. You should not be engaging out of cloak. If you want to do that fly a Raptor. Its what they were designed to do.
Also, argument didn't take into consideration that the Fleet Defiant can mount 5x XII Purple Tac consoles, and still get that added cloak bonus. So, in all fairness, the BOP is still gimpy at best.
You cannot compare the birds of prey to the federation escorts. BoP is an ambush ship (its why it has a battle cloak not a regular cloak like defiant) not a head-on combatant. The Defiant, like any other federation escort, is in-between the Bird of Prey and Raptor class ships.
If anything the fleet Q'in raptor is the KDF equivalent of the Fleet Defiant. One less tac console but one more engineering console. Both use regular cloaks not battle cloaks.
1 less tac console, 1 less rear weapon, less hull and if the original numbers from tribble are accurate much much less shielding.
Originally what it got in return for all of that compromise was...nothing with a turn rate of 16.
Now it has 1 less turn rate than a 120k dilithium / free RALH selection Hegh'ta without the fully customizable BOFF layout and no cloak.
It still costs 4 FSM modules and has simply improved from "laughably terrible" to just "comparatively poor".
As I said
Originally Posted by bitemepwe The Fleet Aquariuos basically just became the fed cheaper Bug ship with one less Tac console and a slight difference in Engi BOff slots, if it gets a 20 turnrate boost.
Purple mk 11 console? What are you smoking...at best its a blue...since you know umm feds...they have a cloak console and its a scaling blue item.
I hardly consider 5 seconds of 15% damage once a fight equal to a permanent 20% bonus to energy weapons.
A blue Mk XI tac console boosts by 26.2%. A 15% boost is a common Mk VII or uncommon mk VI console, according to the STO wiki (assuming that information is still accurate).
Basically, it's pisspoor. Combined with all the other buffs a tac officer can apply, it's better than nothing. . .but it does not compensate for being short a tac slot.
Attack Pattern Alpha, now THAT is a compensator. . .but you've gotta be a tac officer to have it. Even pattern Omega is better than the decloak damage bonus (25% for 15 seconds). Meanwhile, tac officers flying fed escorts will get a 5th tac console from the Fleet defiant, and can use Alpha for the equivalent of a 6th, and Omega for a 7th. I've been on the business end of an alpha strike from those beasts, they overwhelm the damn Tactical Team buff (even when supplemented by EPtS1). It's ridiculous. Only thing on my BoP that can stand up to 'em right now is RSP, which is limited. I don't have ROOM for more 'defensive' skills, not if I want my decloak-ambush Hegh'ta to remain relevant in the role I'm using it in.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
A blue Mk XI tac console boosts by 26.2%. A 15% boost is a common Mk VII or uncommon mk VI console, according to the STO wiki (assuming that information is still accurate).
Basically, it's pisspoor. Combined with all the other buffs a tac officer can apply, it's better than nothing. . .but it does not compensate for being short a tac slot.
Attack Pattern Alpha, now THAT is a compensator. . .but you've gotta be a tac officer to have it. Even pattern Omega is better than the decloak damage bonus (25% for 15 seconds). Meanwhile, tac officers flying fed escorts will get a 5th tac console from the Fleet defiant, and can use Alpha for the equivalent of a 6th, and Omega for a 7th. I've been on the business end of an alpha strike from those beasts, they overwhelm the damn Tactical Team buff (even when supplemented by EPtS1). It's ridiculous. Only thing on my BoP that can stand up to 'em right now is RSP, which is limited. I don't have ROOM for more 'defensive' skills, not if I want my decloak-ambush Hegh'ta to remain relevant in the role I'm using it in.
you forgot to add in the fleet item that buffs all your tactical skills for 4 hours. yesterday a guy with a fleet defiant posted his with and without damage tool tip numbers, and they made a 9.8% difference, and it was only green quality. add that on top of all those other tactical buffs too!
Yes but that cloak is only one fed escort. It uses up a console slot. Birds of Prey has it as an innate ability, is a battle cloak and has all universal stations.
5 seconds of boosted damage IS equal to permanent 20% damage if you take into account the RAIDER is an ambush ship. Decloak,shoot, recloak. You should not be engaging out of cloak. If you want to do that fly a Raptor. Its what they were designed to do.
You cannot compare the birds of prey to the federation escorts. BoP is an ambush ship (its why it has a battle cloak not a regular cloak like defiant) not a head-on combatant. The Defiant, like any other federation escort, is in-between the Bird of Prey and Raptor class ships.
If anything the fleet Q'in raptor is the KDF equivalent of the Fleet Defiant. One less tac console but one more engineering console. Both use regular cloaks not battle cloaks.
The battlecloak has a 20 second cooldown. That means you've got at least 10-12 seconds of fighting until it's safe to make a break for it using Evasive or w/e. The buff only lasts for 5 seconds. You're also not guaranteed to be able to escape after 10 seconds of fighting.
Also, the Defiant can ambush, and in the right hands can get out of the battlezone quickly to recloak and ambush again. Face it, the battlecloak is NOT that big of an advantage, especially since smart players know how to trap BoPs and keep them from escaping (warp plasma after they've used an HE to remove a previous warp plasma effect, tractor beams after you've seen them use Omega/Polarize Hull, etc). It enables a BoP to run away a little easier, that's about it. Buff the battlecloak to include a defense bonus when you cloak and a larger buff when decloaking, and maybe you've got a leg to stand on.
Add to that the lower amount of tac consoles, the cooldowns on Pattern Alpha, Pattern Omega, Fire on My Mark, Go Down Fighting, Tactical Fleet. . .and you can basically make an 'effective' ambush attack about every minute or so. Ambushing in a BoP without at least pattern alpha running is a waste of an ambush (at least, in my experience).
The universal stations on a BoP don't really mean as much as Federation fanboys would like to claim, because the BoP is a limited and substandard vessel in every category except turning. Right now, the B'rel has about 2 purposes. . .alpha ambush (which can be done by the Hegh'ta) and weird sci/mine/torp builds to harass and trip up the enemy. The Hegh'ta is only good as a nimble ambush/DPSer, so only a certain amount of boff setups are really viable. You can tank in the Hegh'ta (thanks to those universal Boff slots), but then you sacrifice DPS and the whole point of flying the darn thing. The Fleet Hoh'sus is an improvement, but it still struggles to keep up.
Someone clarify whether the Fleet Qin has the same borked turn axis as the regular Qin? If it does, then it does NOT measure up to the Fleet defiant, both because of the tac console and because of the turning. If it works alright, it's STILL deficient because the turn rate is STILL slower than the Fleet Defiant (15 compared to 17), and it's missing a tac console. It 'tanks' better, like any really cares. You wanna tank and be nimble, you fly the Fleet Tor'kaht (a very good battlecruiser, btw).
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Comments
Not sure what to think, as I'm ignorant of any balance aspects with the Fleet ships (or in general). But it is interesting nonetheless
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The Saber, though. . .just buff the damn shields. It has less shields than the Fleet Hoh'sus, apparently. But then, if they buffed the shields, it'd be like all other Fed escorts, and nobody would buy it. Makes me wonder why they released it at all.
the saber is almost 4 times the volume of the defiant, they should not have the same turn rate. the saber is a small general purpose ship, being a defiant class also ran is not correct, but thats what we get in game when everything is ether an escort, cruiser or sci ship.
at least the aquarius change makes sense, that thing not turning more like a bop was one of my top 5 complaints on the fleet ship's stats, that was literally just the wrong turn rate for it, no other way to describe it.
how bout the somraw then? is smaller then the saber but larger then the defiant. also, the advertized shield mod on these fleet ships and retofits is lower then it actually is in game. the fleet somraw has a shield mod of .93 in actuality, the more basic retrofit has .8, just .3 less then a standard qin. the saber's shield mod in both forms is slightly better. giving the saber a higher turn rate because its 'weak', doesn't make sense. it is not weak at all, it was easily better then any other non fleet or lock box escort before.
How long have the KDF players being asking for the same treatment?
I know that there are some that will want to jump on the band-wagon with the argument "when are the KDF going to accept that Cryptic don't care".
Please, I ask you just to refrain this once. It opens up the thread to yet another repeditive debate again.
This thread is about what is lacking about KDF fleet ships, and how we can bring attention to their plight!
R.I.P
R.I.P
I figured the Aquarius had a weaker hull for the same reasons the BoPs do ingame, Universal slots.
It does make playing the KDF feel like your bringing a Dagtagh to a gunfight at times.
R.I.P
There is only like one Fleet ship I have any interest in and thats the Corsair, even then I have been losing interest in it.
For some odd reason there are players who keep telling us the BoP fills the science role...I still don't get that.
Its one point less than the Defiant-R in turnrate with the bonus of having 2 Universal BOffs to draw upon for a more defensive build if needed.
I do not see how the low hull, which is still higher than a Fleet HoH'sus BoP, gives reason to bump its Turnrate to 20. Especially since it has a 4 tac consoles, 4 engie consoles slots availible to it and possibly 4 device slots (if STOwiki is correct).
I can understand its meant to be the faster slightly lighter version of the Defiant but bumping the turn so high may be a bit much for a vessel that will be as easily tankible as its bigger brother in my opinion.
Frankly the the Fleet Ning'Toa needs to be the Fleet B'rel variant and all they would have to do is put the ABC on it and be done. Leave its low as a shuttle Hull points and be done with it as the great squishyness of only 16k HP will be still balance its abilities.
R.I.P
Change BoP bonus from +weapon power to -50% weapon power cost
B'rel specific: no +weapon power or -50% weapon power cost. Instead remove the global timer for torpedoes so they can be fired just like cannons. all in one burst.
and you will have balance restored to bird of prey vs federation non-cloak escorts.
Feds may have more tactical consoles.. but KDF players forget the cloak ambush bonus is = to a purple tactical mk 11 console. So..we do have that extra console.
(... I would add too that it is strange why the cloak ambush bonus is not boosted by one's stealth skill. It should. )
Feds may get stronger shields, hulls and turn rate..but the bird of prey retains its boom&zoom ambush attack ability through speed and weapon performance.
The fleet KDF birds of prey are quite interesting and unique. The Hohsus can easily be seen as a cannon monster and the Ningtao's 3 lt cmdr slots open crazy possibilities..even if it has the hull of a shuttle.
Purple mk 11 console? What are you smoking...at best its a blue...since you know umm feds...they have a cloak console and its a scaling blue item.
I hardly consider 5 seconds of 15% damage once a fight equal to a permanent 20% bonus to energy weapons.
Com: Tac
LTC: Tac
LT: Eng
Ens: Universal
LT: Universal
4 tactical consoles
4 engineer consoles
2 science consoles
with the only KDF equivalent being possibly the fleet HoH'Sus raider with its 21 turn rate
All Universal BOffs
4 tactical consoles
3 engineer consoles
3 science consoles
with less Hull points but a slightly better shield mod.
I guess the days of having to pay to compete may be arriving.
R.I.P
Precisely.
Also, argument didn't take into consideration that the Fleet Defiant can mount 5x XII Purple Tac consoles, and still get that added cloak bonus. So, in all fairness, the BOP is still gimpy at best.
Its still the better ship. They only improved it with the Fleet variant by a 5th tac console and more HP. Since it performs very Tanky and very Bursty as it was , it will only be deadlier in a fleet version.
I was listing the Fl Aquarius as only being a cheap bug clone with only one probable KDF counter if it has a turnrate of 20.
R.I.P
1 less tac console, 1 less rear weapon, less hull and if the original numbers from tribble are accurate much much less shielding.
Originally what it got in return for all of that compromise was...nothing with a turn rate of 16.
Now it has 1 less turn rate than a 120k dilithium / free RALH selection Hegh'ta without the fully customizable BOFF layout and no cloak.
It still costs 4 FSM modules and has simply improved from "laughably terrible" to just "comparatively poor".
Yes but that cloak is only one fed escort. It uses up a console slot. Birds of Prey has it as an innate ability, is a battle cloak and has all universal stations.
5 seconds of boosted damage IS equal to permanent 20% damage if you take into account the RAIDER is an ambush ship. Decloak,shoot, recloak. You should not be engaging out of cloak. If you want to do that fly a Raptor. Its what they were designed to do.
You cannot compare the birds of prey to the federation escorts. BoP is an ambush ship (its why it has a battle cloak not a regular cloak like defiant) not a head-on combatant. The Defiant, like any other federation escort, is in-between the Bird of Prey and Raptor class ships.
If anything the fleet Q'in raptor is the KDF equivalent of the Fleet Defiant. One less tac console but one more engineering console. Both use regular cloaks not battle cloaks.
As I said 1234
R.I.P
A blue Mk XI tac console boosts by 26.2%. A 15% boost is a common Mk VII or uncommon mk VI console, according to the STO wiki (assuming that information is still accurate).
Basically, it's pisspoor. Combined with all the other buffs a tac officer can apply, it's better than nothing. . .but it does not compensate for being short a tac slot.
Attack Pattern Alpha, now THAT is a compensator. . .but you've gotta be a tac officer to have it. Even pattern Omega is better than the decloak damage bonus (25% for 15 seconds). Meanwhile, tac officers flying fed escorts will get a 5th tac console from the Fleet defiant, and can use Alpha for the equivalent of a 6th, and Omega for a 7th. I've been on the business end of an alpha strike from those beasts, they overwhelm the damn Tactical Team buff (even when supplemented by EPtS1). It's ridiculous. Only thing on my BoP that can stand up to 'em right now is RSP, which is limited. I don't have ROOM for more 'defensive' skills, not if I want my decloak-ambush Hegh'ta to remain relevant in the role I'm using it in.
You were wrong then, and you are still wrong.
Turn rate of 20 =/= Bugship.
you forgot to add in the fleet item that buffs all your tactical skills for 4 hours. yesterday a guy with a fleet defiant posted his with and without damage tool tip numbers, and they made a 9.8% difference, and it was only green quality. add that on top of all those other tactical buffs too!
The battlecloak has a 20 second cooldown. That means you've got at least 10-12 seconds of fighting until it's safe to make a break for it using Evasive or w/e. The buff only lasts for 5 seconds. You're also not guaranteed to be able to escape after 10 seconds of fighting.
Also, the Defiant can ambush, and in the right hands can get out of the battlezone quickly to recloak and ambush again. Face it, the battlecloak is NOT that big of an advantage, especially since smart players know how to trap BoPs and keep them from escaping (warp plasma after they've used an HE to remove a previous warp plasma effect, tractor beams after you've seen them use Omega/Polarize Hull, etc). It enables a BoP to run away a little easier, that's about it. Buff the battlecloak to include a defense bonus when you cloak and a larger buff when decloaking, and maybe you've got a leg to stand on.
Add to that the lower amount of tac consoles, the cooldowns on Pattern Alpha, Pattern Omega, Fire on My Mark, Go Down Fighting, Tactical Fleet. . .and you can basically make an 'effective' ambush attack about every minute or so. Ambushing in a BoP without at least pattern alpha running is a waste of an ambush (at least, in my experience).
The universal stations on a BoP don't really mean as much as Federation fanboys would like to claim, because the BoP is a limited and substandard vessel in every category except turning. Right now, the B'rel has about 2 purposes. . .alpha ambush (which can be done by the Hegh'ta) and weird sci/mine/torp builds to harass and trip up the enemy. The Hegh'ta is only good as a nimble ambush/DPSer, so only a certain amount of boff setups are really viable. You can tank in the Hegh'ta (thanks to those universal Boff slots), but then you sacrifice DPS and the whole point of flying the darn thing. The Fleet Hoh'sus is an improvement, but it still struggles to keep up.
Someone clarify whether the Fleet Qin has the same borked turn axis as the regular Qin? If it does, then it does NOT measure up to the Fleet defiant, both because of the tac console and because of the turning. If it works alright, it's STILL deficient because the turn rate is STILL slower than the Fleet Defiant (15 compared to 17), and it's missing a tac console. It 'tanks' better, like any really cares. You wanna tank and be nimble, you fly the Fleet Tor'kaht (a very good battlecruiser, btw).